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Author Topic: BOO! Ty Willingham fired from Notre Dame  (Read 2710 times)
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GungHo
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« on: November 30, 2004, 11:40:56 PM »

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1935138


I hate Notre Dame.  Can't f'n stand 'em.  But Ty Willingham is a guy I can respect as a man and as a coach.  Sure ND hasnt been very good under him, but then ND hasnt been very good lately, period.

I think it's pretty amusing though that ND, who has always claimed to be about more than football, is showing their true colors.  Funny what 3 losing seasons in the last 5 will do to your standards.

Think maybe you shoulda joined the Big 10 when you had the chance?   Arrogant knuckleheads.

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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2004, 11:50:02 PM »

As a Utah season ticket holder, two words came to mind when I heard Willingham got fired.

Aw.  Shit.

For anyone who doesn't know, his replacement is most likely going to be Utah's Urban Meyer.  Nobody in Salt Lake thought that Urban was going to be here for the long haul, but up until this afternoon, chances looked pretty good that he would stick around for next year.  Especially with the Butch Davis to Florida rumors flying around.  He has a ton of returning talent, a legitimate Heisman candidate in Alex Smith, and another favorable schedule for going undefeated.   However, Notre Dame is one of the 3 schools that he made Utah give him an "opt out" of his contract for (Michigan and Ohio State being the others) when he was hired.  It's his dream job, and I'd be absolutely shocked if he wasn't hired by weeks end.

As much as I've always disliked ND, I'm going to have to begrudgingly root for them with Meyer as the coach.  He's truly a class act and I'm glad he gets the chance to coach at such a major program.  While I wish we could have kept him here, I wish him nothing but the best of luck at ND if he goes.  He put together the most exciting season of football this city has ever seen, and I highly, highly doubt it will ever happen again.  

Kinda like a fling with an uber-hottie, 'twas fun while it lasted.  frown
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jessie
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2004, 12:40:01 AM »

Ty has Urban to thank for his firing.  ND fired Ty so they could get Urban in the Green and Gold before Florida had a chance to grab him.

Sorry Utah.
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2004, 01:23:34 AM »

Ty willingham is not only a superb coach, but he is undeniably a superb man. SHame on you notre dame for not giving him teh chance. Yes, they lost some stupid games they shoudl have won, but he beat michigan, he beat Florida State, he beat teams he should never have beaten.

And you know what, lets be honest? The talent on Notre Dame for the most part just sucks. Im sorry Irish fans, it does, the team is just not very good and Ty got every ounce out of them.

Urban Meyer isnt going to have any better luck.

Ty Willingham to Florida!! GO Gators!
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2004, 03:01:12 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Ty willingham is not only a superb coach, but he is undeniably a superb man. SHame on you notre dame for not giving him teh chance. Yes, they lost some stupid games they shoudl have won, but he beat michigan, he beat Florida State, he beat teams he should never have beaten.

And you know what, lets be honest? The talent on Notre Dame for the most part just sucks. Im sorry Irish fans, it does, the team is just not very good and Ty got every ounce out of them.

Urban Meyer isnt going to have any better luck.

Ty Willingham to Florida!! GO Gators!


I completely agree about Ty.  He was a great coach and a great guy, and probably shouldn't have been let go.  If Meyer wasn't available to them, I highly doubt he would have been canned this year.

However, if there's one thing Meyer is a master of it's getting the absolute most out of his players.  Last year, he took nearly the exact same Utah team Ron McBride coached to a 5-6 record to a 10-2 mark.  He took the same players that everyone called "mediocre", but he installed a completely new attitude and work ethic.  And it worked.  He did the same thing at Bowling Green.  As much as it pains me to say it, I think Meyer is a great fit for ND.

I just wish the timing were better.  Utah has had a history making season, but now the coach that got them there will (most likely) not be coaching the biggest bowl game in school history.  It's unfortunate that it is taking the lustre off such an amazing accomplishment.  I can't help but wonder how much of a distraction this will be to the players trying to prepare for Jan 1.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2004, 03:18:51 AM »

ND needs to join a conference and soon.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2004, 04:46:50 AM »

Gratch, funny you mention his first season at Utah since TY willingham went 10-2 in his first season as well with many the same players as Bob Davie.

I love that this happened.  I despise ND football with a passion that many of you would find disturbing.  I honestly would not lift a finger to help a ND booster who was run over by a car.  ND Football represents most of what's wrong with America.  With Ty gone (by everything I've heard, a class act), I can hope their team bus gets in an accident.

If the Christian God exists, he hates ND football.
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2004, 04:38:10 PM »

I'd like to hear more of this anti-ND stuff. I don't quite understand it.

But one thing I've noticed is that the alumni is incredibly fickle.  I mean if the coach doesn't get them to the championship within one year they're already crying for heads to roll.

It's a good example of when tradition stagnates and festers.
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Gratch
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2004, 05:28:01 PM »

The problem with recruiting at ND is their academic standards are so high, it makes it tough to recruit some top level athletes.  Bob Davies said on ESPN last night, that out of 100 blue chip kids in the country, ND could only recruit about 30 of them because of academics.  The Floridas and Oklahomas of the world could recruit 90 of them because the standards are lower.  

Not saying that having high standards is a bad thing, but it certainly makes it tougher to bring kids in.  Combine that with the fact that most of the ND "mistique" has vanished over the last 10 years, and you're in for a tough recruiting road.  Kids won't come to ND anymore just for the sake of getting to play at ND.  They want to go somewhere they have a chance to win a championship and get to the NFL.  ND simply isn't that place.  If they were smart, ND would align themselves with a conference so they wouldn't have to play such a brutal schedule year in and year out.
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2004, 05:32:19 PM »

I dont feel sorry for Ty.  He made a bucket load of money and will go to Washington and make a bucket load more.  Plus he gets out of that circus at ND.  Until they join a major conference they will never be the program they once were.  ND should have allowed him to fulfill his contract (5 years) That way he would have been coach HIS recruits and they could have seen what he was capable of.  Instead they jumped the gun and lost a good coach.  Dont feel sorry for Ty, hes probably better off in the long run.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2004, 07:04:14 PM »

Quote
The problem with recruiting at ND is their academic standards are so high


Yeah.  You keep peddling that bullshit.  And this particular bullshit is repeated often by asshats like Lee Corso who has a vested interest in promoting college football.

Chris Zorich.  All-American nose guard for Notre Dame.  Ever seen his SAT Score?  (Hint: it was triple digits).  
--------------
NEXT:
 And oh yeah, they want to join a conference.   :roll:

Do you pay ANY attention to college football? If they join a conference (1) they will lose there own private TV contract (Only School in the NCAA with it's own personal TV contract) and (2) they will then have to split bowl money with the other conference teams, same as FSU, Michigan, etc.   Ther greed will NEVER let them join a conference.  
-----------------------------

Hey, I warned you guys.  Nothing personal Gratch, but I will go after ANYONE who does not recognize that every individual involved with Notre Dame football will burn in Hell, if it exists.  They get special treatment, they're the greediest fucks on the planet, and there the worst hypocrits in sports (And WHoa! is that a statment).  I am not even pretending to be sane about this.  My hatred of that bullshit cesspool has reached pathological proportions.

IF you want to prove me wrong:
You have to explain away the Chriz Zorich's  (much less the Michael Stonebreaker Drunken driving accident) of ND.

You have to state why being the sole ownership of a specific advantage is not competitive favoritism.
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2004, 07:25:36 PM »

Chris Zorich was admitted under different admissions standards than exist today; Notre Dame when I graduated HS ('91) wasn't hard to get into.  It is now.

Also, he's a very poor example.  He played in the NFL, got a law degree (from Notre Dame, good law school) and a subsequent master's degree.  You can say, with a decently defensible position, that they took a risk on him and he turned out to reward them.  Not too many Florida State football players earn a JD/MA, for example.

All freshman at ND have to take, and pass calculus.  That's ALL freshmen, football players included.

Compare that to say, Ohio State.  Pick that issue of ESPN magazine that talks about Ohio State and Sammy Maldonado of Maryland.  After two years of Ohio State, he wanted to transfer to Maryland.  His 40 semester equivalent credits at Ohio State translated into 17 at Maryland.

That's right, 17 credits in two years.  Story here.  http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919255

Mandantory calculus verus 17 class credits.  If you're interested in going pro, which one would you take?  Easy decision for me.

I absolutely think the firing of Ty Willingham is deplorable to the extreme.   He is the ONLY ND coach who has been fired before completion of his contract.  The ONLY one.

And you're dead on regarding the money.  ND won't join a conference because they're making too much money to do so.  As Kirk Herbstreit said on ESPN last night, their schedule is their schedule.  A team like USC doesn't look at their schedule and think, Oh no we have to play team X, Y, Z.  They just do it.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2004, 07:26:52 PM »

BTW - REALLY need to clarify:

 Nothing personal= my diatribe isn't directed at you (Gratch) but at the defense people throw up for a football factory hypocrits.  Sorry if it came off that way.
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Gratch
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2004, 07:59:44 PM »

Just a couple thoughts...

Quote
Do you pay ANY attention to college football? If they join a conference (1) they will lose there own private TV contract (Only School in the NCAA with it's own personal TV contract) and


Exactly how long do you think that TV contract is going to last if they have many more 6-5 seasons?

Quote
(2) they will then have to split bowl money with the other conference teams, same as FSU, Michigan, etc.   Ther greed will NEVER let them join a conference.  

If they were playing in BCS bowls, I'd agree.  Maybe I'm wrong here, but somehow I don't imagine splitting the $5 they get from the Middle-of-nowhere Podunk Bowl is going to make or break the ND athletic program.  

You also mentioned that Ty went 10-2 with Davies recruits.  The difference between him and Meyer is that Willingham's 2nd year was 6-5.  Meyer's was 11-0.  Meyer simply has a way of motivating players and energizing a football community.  That said, the football atmosphere at ND is a hell of a lot different than Bowling Green or Utah.  At ND, he will be expected to win immediately.  At Utah, it was simply an unexpected bonus that he did.  I don't envy him stepping into that pressure cooker.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2004, 12:24:43 AM »

Quote
Exactly how long do you think that TV contract is going to last if they have many more 6-5 seasons?


You mean, like they've done 3 of the last 5 years already?  Their contract isn't even close to being in jeopardy.

And the last bowl they were in paid $1.6 million.  No, that's not the $10 million the Rose pays out, but a million and a half is a hell of a lot more than the hundred and twenty thousand they would have gotten iif they were in a conference.

And 8ball, Notre Dame has a DECADES long high academic standard.  A University president can't suddenly decide, "Oh, we're a highly specific academic institution now ".  That standard was one of the things that held Rudy back, remember?
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« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2004, 02:21:24 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Ty willingham is not only a superb coach, but he is undeniably a superb man. SHame on you notre dame for not giving him teh chance. Yes, they lost some stupid games they shoudl have won, but he beat michigan, he beat Florida State, he beat teams he should never have beaten.

And you know what, lets be honest? The talent on Notre Dame for the most part just sucks. Im sorry Irish fans, it does, the team is just not very good and Ty got every ounce out of them.

Urban Meyer isnt going to have any better luck.

Ty Willingham to Florida!! GO Gators!


Yeah, ND wasnt impressive this year. They lost to BYU. Come on, I go to BYU and I can admit we suck horribly these last few years. Im sure gratch saw it first hand. We were rolled over by utah (BYU being perhaps the only team with any chance against utah because of the rivalry). But BYU beat ND. You have to be pretty bad to be beat by the Y. I would be glad to see urban go just because maybe we can have a chance to win some games against the Utes  biggrin .  

Its interesting though, a similar situation is taking place at BYU right now too. Our coach has had rumors flying around about being fired because of three losing seasons in a row too. Im not sure how fair it is to give a coach only 3 years though. Andmuch like Ty, crowton (the BYU coach) is a pretty good guy too. Its a tough world for college football coaches. Its not a job I would want. Not much security there.
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JSHAW
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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2004, 04:03:26 AM »

How long has it been since Notre Dame won a national championship?
A LONG LONG TIME!

Results...bottom line.  No results, no 5 year contract.

If I was a Notre Dame alumni or the person who makes their hiring/firing decisions I'd have to be asking myself is keeping Willingham for another 2 years going to bring them the national championship?

From their decision I'd have to say they answered that question right there.
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Eightball
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2004, 06:43:47 AM »

Quote from: "Big Jake"
And 8ball, Notre Dame has a DECADES long high academic standard.


You seem to be agreeing with me that ND has a more rigorous academic standard than other football factories.  That won't help recruiting.  So we agree on this, right? *confused*

Quote
A University president can't suddenly decide, "Oh, we're a highly specific academic institution now ".  That standard was one of the things that held Rudy back, remember?


Actually, they can.  Maryland in the late 80's was put on the death penalty for academic irregularities that came out of the whole Lenny Bias incident.  After that, admissions requirements rose for athletes who wanted to attend UM, quite substantially.  A University President could most certainly place a school's emphasis of education over athletics; it's just his ass is at stake if he does so against the booster's wishes.
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2004, 01:47:06 PM »

I'll tell you where the anti-Notre Dame sentiment comes from.  Notre Dame fans and alum impicitly claim moral superiority.

Well here's your moral superiority [quote from ND athletic director Kevin White]:

Tyrone has been an excellent fit and a great representative of our program.  He personally has displayed impeccable integrity and tremendous character, and his players have represented themselves off the field in a first-class manner.  In addition, our football program under his watch has never been stronger in terms of its academic performance.

Well guess what that gets you at Notre Dame.  NOTHING.  NADA.  JUST WIN BABY!

So your program at Notre Dame is no better than that at Miami.  Hell, you might as well go out and hire the Big 12 Coach of the Year.  He'll fit right in.  

[I was tempted to make some comment about the Catholic Church in general, but that would be crossing the line]
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2004, 03:56:31 PM »

Quote from: "Rage"
Ty willingham is not only a superb coach, but he is undeniably a superb man. SHame on you notre dame for not giving him teh chance.


I read that Willingham is the first coach for ND to get the job and not be allowed 5 years to develop a team?  I don't udnerstand the turn-around in sports these days.  It takes time to build a team.  You need to acquire the personal that you want and then you need to teach them.  This is College football, not Pro.  These kids come out of HS and don't really know how to play football.  I am a Terps fan and the Fridge had a bad year but they are sticking with him.  Even if he has another one they best not let him go.
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JSHAW
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2004, 04:18:34 PM »

During Willingham's press conference he was asked what if anything did he think would would have done differently.

His response "Win", "Win Games".

I agree with everything that has been said about his character, respect from his players, their increased academic achievements, etc. BUT when it comes down to the bottom line someone at Notre Dame decided they needed to make a change and they put the wheels in motion which came down to his firing.

Local sports radio here has been buzzing with the name Urban Meyer as a possible replacement for Willingham. I have no idea who the man is, but they've said he was up for a coaching job at Florida and that Notre Dame was willing to dump Willingham for the chance to give Meyer the job.



It sucks that Willingham had to lose his job despite some of his achievements there, but to me they weren't very outstanding achievements. He had mediocre success and mediocre just isn't cutting it anymore at the college level, or in this case at Notre Dame.

Willingham also said at his press conference that there IS NO job security in being a football coach.

Winning is all that matters. Anything else is second best. Second best doesn't win you the national championship.

Willingham won't have any problem in finding another job. He's a class act.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1936781
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2004, 04:41:56 PM »

Quote from: "JSHAW"
Local sports radio here has been buzzing with the name Urban Meyer as a possible replacement for Willingham. I have no idea who the man is, but they've said he was up for a coaching job at Florida and that Notre Dame was willing to dump Willingham for the chance to give Meyer the job.


Urban Meyer is currently the coach at Utah.  In 2 years, he took a middle of the road Mountain West Conference team that had won one conference titles to a 21-2 record, 2 conference titles, and a probable BCS bowl berth (the first team outside of a BCS conference to do so).  He was also an assistant at ND for 4 years.  In short, the guy's a stud.

Rightfully or not, he's the hottest coach in the country right now and I'm sure he'll be taking the ND job.  Rumor has it that he's interviewing there today linky.
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GungHo
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2004, 07:06:55 PM »

JSHAW: yer right about a lot of those things you said.  Except that unless there are going to be 116 Div. 1 head coaching jobs opening up every year(or 115ish if we keep this BCS crap), second best HAS TO BE good enough for a lot of schools...Notre Dame included.  This isnt 1950 or even 1970 where ND can ride high on the achievements of Knute Rockne or Rudy.  Kids today, ESPECIALLY kids with designs on playing in the NFL dont give a good bob damn about ND's history, legacy, Touchdown Jesus, or the fact that they play Navy every year.

ND has some choices to make; they cant be both a football powerhouse and a stalwart academic institution...unless they wanna go join the Ivy League.  The 2 are mutually exclusive.  *NOT* because kids who are talented enough to play in the pros are stupid, but simply b/c many of them don't care about academic achievement like they care about improving their game and getting to the NFL.   By holding their academic and moral standards(we'll see about that last one) higher than the average 'state school', ND necessarily excludes themselves from going after many of today's top HS athletes.

Given that ND is, in today's college landscape, just another Rice with a past, ND cant realistically expect to do much better than what theyve been doing.  They could exhume Knute and prop him up with a stick on the sidelines, but they arent going to suddenly start winning NCs unless they get better athletes.

They had a, ahem, 'golden', opportunity to stick to their guns by sticking with Ty.  And given another 2 years, I think WIllingham would have ND regularly going 8-3 or maybe even 9-2.  I seriously doubt theyd be in the running for any NCs(though given their relatively static scheudle and opponents that tend to run hot and cold, you never know), but they'd be a good, quality football team who could still lay claim to demanding academics.

But no, they've shown themselves to be just like any other school, slogging around down in the slime that is Div 1A athletics.  Welcome to the party ND!  You'll fit right in('cept your football team will still suck  :lol: ).
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2004, 08:19:52 PM »

Quote
and a probable BCS bowl berth (the first team outside of a BCS conference to do so)


Uhm, what? ND isn't in a BCS conference right? Call me crazy but weren't they in the Fiesta bowl a few years ago?


/and got their arses kicked  :wink:
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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2004, 05:34:46 PM »

Just a point regarding splitting bowl proceeds in conferences.  The math works if you consider one bowl, but when you have a conference splitting the proceeds of 5 or 6 bowls, there is substancially more money involved.
 Also, ND's tv contract is currently active.  Do you really think it will be renewed if ND continues its current win status.  You cant survive on reputation alone, money talks and if the numbers are not there then ND will lose its contract.
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Gratch
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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2004, 05:53:23 PM »

Quote from: "Ranulf"
Quote
and a probable BCS bowl berth (the first team outside of a BCS conference to do so)


Uhm, what? ND isn't in a BCS conference right? Call me crazy but weren't they in the Fiesta bowl a few years ago?


/and got their arses kicked  :wink:


ND gets an exception to the non-BCS conference rule.  They are eligible for any BCS game as long as they finish in the top 12 (six?  Not sure here) in the BCS standings.
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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2004, 05:59:34 PM »

I am glad he was fired at ND because I am a Husky Fan and if he can become the Washington coach, it would make me happy
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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2004, 10:41:59 PM »

Quote from: "Gratch"
Quote from: "Ranulf"
Quote
and a probable BCS bowl berth (the first team outside of a BCS conference to do so)


Uhm, what? ND isn't in a BCS conference right? Call me crazy but weren't they in the Fiesta bowl a few years ago?


/and got their arses kicked  :wink:


ND gets an exception to the non-BCS conference rule.  They are eligible for any BCS game as long as they finish in the top 12 (six?  Not sure here) in the BCS standings.


Interesting, didn't know that. Figures though.
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« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2004, 10:49:24 PM »

Heard today on ESPN radio that Meyer will probably be taking the FL job.  Appears ND is unwilling to change how they do business(i.e. wants to keep their admission standards high...and good for them, that *should be* what college is about), and Meyer realizes he wont win a NC at ND.

Is that egg I see on the face of Touchdown Jesus?   :lol:
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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2004, 01:32:27 AM »

Y'know, I'm happy for Urban.  He deserves better than the Utah gig.  He's going to do great at Florida, and with their talent, his offense should be really fun to watch.

But...

He's pretty much fucked us at the U.  All this "maybe I will, maybe I won't" crap that he's been doing for the last few weeks has killed our recruiting.  It was reported on the local news yesterday that of the 13 recruits that were supposed to visit the Utah campus this weekend, 11 of them bailed out.  We had a verbal commitment from a blue-chip QB to take over after Smith left, but Urban wouldn't return his phone calls last week and he decommitted.  We could have sewn up one of our top assistant coaches (Mike Sanford or Kyle Whittingham), but he hemmed and hawed for so long that they are both now looking at other jobs.  Not to mention the fact that we will be playing the biggest game in school history in a few weeks, and the entire focus has turned from the team to the now non-existant coach.

If he had simply come out 3 weeks ago and said "I won't be here next year", most of this could have been avoided.  Instead, he dicked around and left the U in a really bad position.  I can't even describe how tough it is to have such an amazing season end like this.  frown
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