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Author Topic: Bitch Must Die candidate  (Read 1634 times)
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« on: December 12, 2005, 10:44:32 PM »

I nominate this lady: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10371268/
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An Oklahoma City woman is being charged with child abuse for injecting human waste into her 2-and-a-half year old daughter.District Attorney Wes Lane says Sarena Sherrard is being charged with child abuse by Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy. People with the syndrome often injure their children in order to gain attention and sympathy. Sherrard was arrested August 14th when police watching by video say they say her use two syringes to inject a substance into her daughter's catheter while at Children's Hospital in Oklahoma City. Investigators say Sherrard later confessed to injecting feces into her daughter's body to get attention. Police say the child has undergone more than 15 surgeries and remains hospitalized in serious condition. Lane says Sherrard faces up to life in prison if found guilty.
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« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 10:48:50 PM »

Oh my god, that's...wow.  I second that nomination.  Ick.
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« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2005, 11:13:40 PM »

Ideally, she should be locked away in isolation with no toilet or sink, so she can live in her own waste until she dies of infection or disease.  The prison staff can slide a tray of wheat bread, wheat cereal, lettuce, and water under the door each day.
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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 11:41:25 PM »

There is something wrong with that woman.  After her mental health is reviewed and fixed with meds, a life term in prison should be helpful.
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2005, 11:53:25 PM »

These are the people who need to be the subjects of human laboratory testing.
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2005, 12:14:25 AM »

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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2005, 03:18:27 AM »

Quote from: "Nth Power"
These are the people who need to be the subjects of human laboratory testing.

You know the sad part? Odds are she wasn't capable of holding a job, so you, the taxpayer, was supporting her as she did her insane things.
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2005, 04:13:07 AM »

Hell they're having a hard enough time just getting actual murderers to be put to death ("I've changed!" "I'm innocent!" "Grant me clemency!"), so someone like this woudn't even come close to the death pentalty.
However I do agree 100% and second her being sent to an isolated cell with no toilet to live for the rest of her life. It's harsh, but so is injecting your own kid full of shit.
IMO the way a person should be sent to death is by whatever they did to their victims. They need to know the pain and suffering they've caused and simply strapping them in the chair or injecting them just isn't good enough for me.
Now one of those Asian countries over seas.. where you get bamboo'd for spray painting a car, or your hand cut off for stealing, I wonder why their crime rates are so low and our prisons continue to be over crowded?
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2005, 01:17:27 PM »

Quote from: "corruptrelic"
IMO the way a person should be sent to death is by whatever they did to their victims. They need to know the pain and suffering they've caused and simply strapping them in the chair or injecting them just isn't good enough for me.
 
Now one of those Asian countries over seas.. where you get bamboo'd for spray painting a car, or your hand cut off for stealing, I wonder why their crime rates are so low and our prisons continue to be over crowded?

I've always said that our 'justice' system is way too forgiving here in the US. And I do think it has someting to do with our overall crime rate. Don't even get me started at what I think we should do to our illegal aliens that would solve the problem nearly instantly.
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2005, 03:47:41 PM »

I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?  

To believe that somehow we should as a society torture her, subject her to involuntary experimintation, or just kill her outright is every bit as evil as what she did - and I assume that most of you don't have mental illness to explain your actions.  


Should she be roaming free? no.  Should she ever have custody of her children again? of course not.   However when someone is mentally ill we don't torture them.
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« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2005, 03:58:26 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?

Only if he's injecting that shit into his kid.
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« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2005, 06:35:37 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "farley2k"
I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?

Only if he's injecting that shit into his kid.



So your response, in all seriousness, to torture is torture?  More over your response to the actions of the mentally ill is to torture them.

I see this kid around town here who has to wear a helmet and he will sometimes start smacking his head at things, maybe you would like to come beat the shit out of him.  I am sure it will help.
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« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2005, 07:04:18 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "farley2k"
I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?

Only if he's injecting that shit into his kid.



So your response, in all seriousness, to torture is torture?  More over your response to the actions of the mentally ill is to torture them.

I see this kid around town here who has to wear a helmet and he will sometimes start smacking his head at things, maybe you would like to come beat the shit out of him.  I am sure it will help.

No I don't seriously propose torturing the mentally ill.  I'm a master's-level clinical professional counselor and have worked in the mental health field for 15 years.

That said, my experience with people like her (and I have run into a couple of cases of Munchausen's) is that they truly aren't mentally ill in the sense of people suffering from hallucinations or delusions.  They typically also don't have mood disorders like bipolar disorder.  Basically they are sociopathic people who have no conscience and couldn't care less about what they do to someone else.  Remember: "Sherrard later confessed to injecting feces into her daughter's body to get attention."

I have no sympathy for sociopaths and neither should anyone else.  Sadly, her lawyer will probably get her sentence reduced because she's "mentally ill".
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« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2005, 07:40:51 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?  

To believe that somehow we should as a society torture her, subject her to involuntary experimintation, or just kill her outright is every bit as evil as what she did - and I assume that most of you don't have mental illness to explain your actions.  


Mental illness as an excuse or factor only goes so far.  By definition killing an innocent person is "insanity" but we don't let very many people use it as a defense in court.  

Not that I'm advocating some of the extreme measures mentioned in this thread, but if someone does something so horrible that society will never feel safe letting them roam free, what responsibility does society have to keep that person alive going forward?  In the past we just executed them or banished them somewhere else.
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2005, 07:51:49 PM »

Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "farley2k"
I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?

Only if he's injecting that shit into his kid.



So your response, in all seriousness, to torture is torture?  More over your response to the actions of the mentally ill is to torture them.

I see this kid around town here who has to wear a helmet and he will sometimes start smacking his head at things, maybe you would like to come beat the shit out of him.  I am sure it will help.


As a civilized society that embraces the ideals of compassion and forgiveness through rehabilitation, of course we can’t torture convicted criminals (mentally ill or not).  But if you’re going to argue the idea of acceptable torture, wouldn’t incarceration for life and long isolation periods be considered a form of torture, both mental and physical?  A human having to spend the remainder of their lives in a small cell, potentially abused or raped during this time, seems to qualify as torture to me.  Incarceration seems to be the most civilized form of acceptable torture outside of the death penalty that we’re willing to accept as a society for the punishment of crimes.

At what point do we draw the line between being compassionate and forgiving human beings and not becoming an apologist for the actions of others, mentally ill or not?  It’s easy to make broad and sweeping statements like all forms of torture are bad and evil, but then how do we punish people that violate our laws?  And do the mentally ill get an exception card that grants them sort of a free pass to accountability that “normal people” don’t get?  And when do we stop trying to rehabilitate or help someone?
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2005, 08:05:42 PM »

Quote from: "Roguetad"


As a civilized society that embraces the ideals of compassion and forgiveness through rehabilitation, of course we can’t torture convicted criminals (mentally ill or not).  But if you’re going to argue the idea of acceptable torture, wouldn’t incarceration for life and long isolation periods be considered a form of torture, both mental and physical?  A human having to spend the remainder of their lives in a small cell, potentially abused or raped during this time, seems to qualify as torture to me.  Incarceration seems to be the most civilized form of acceptable torture outside of the death penalty that we’re willing to accept as a society for the punishment of crimes.

At what point do we draw the line between being compassionate and forgiving human beings and not becoming an apologist for the actions of others, mentally ill or not?  It’s easy to make broad and sweeping statements like all forms of torture are bad and evil, but then how do we punish people that violate our laws?  And do the mentally ill get an exception card that grants them sort of a free pass to accountability that “normal people” don’t get?  And when do we stop trying to rehabilitate or help someone?



I think we can determine a line between torture and punishment.  It actually doesn't seem that fine of a line really.  We seem to have pretty good lines already drawn.


As for the last question I don't think we every stop trying to rehablilitate someone.  From a purely selfish perspective it would always be better to have a functional member of society so we are always better off trying to rehabilitate.
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2005, 08:07:06 PM »

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I've always said that our 'justice' system is way too forgiving here in the US.
Let me back that up having worked in both a state prison and a state detention center for juveniles. A prison is far from paradise, but the basics from going to church, the library, breakfast through dinner, rec, on down to watching TV, buying canteen (sodas, cigarettes, extra food,etc.) they have a very decent living. Some of them even get paid (usually around 25 cents an hour) depending on what kind of job they do. Those inmates who are sent to confinement get room service. They have books to read and have all their meals brougt to them, and are escorted to the showers 3 times a week.
Again it's not bad, but it's far from paradise. They're well taken care of in prison especially with their 24 hour "free" (in quotes since your tax dollars pay for it) medical and dental departments.

Now the state-run detention centers (in florida at least) for juveniles. They break the law and come here. Last kid I talked to beat his dad with a baseball bat because his dad yelled at him for coming home late. One kid raped his sister. Another put his finger in a 6 year old girl. (He was 14) A lot of them are in there for burglizing cars and selling drugs. All of them are treated the same regardless of their crime.
When they get there they are treated to a nice air-conditioned facility. School takes place during the day (nothing wrong with that) - but after school - from around 2pm to lockdown (9pm or 10pm) they get to watch TV, movies, play PLAYSTATION 2, and play board games like monopoly and checkers.
A kid gets out of lined, he gets 24 hour confinement in an air conditioned cell to sleep all day, miss school, and read a book. Then he's back out the next day playing some Madden 05 on the mod's playstation 2.
Having coming from the prison - I simply coudn't believe my eyes when I saw a playstation 2 and about 10 games there.
All the latest movies - the kids have already seen, while being locked up.
I'm not for making it too hard on them.. but come on.. you beat your own father with a baseball bat, go to "jail" for 21 days and all that time you are watching movies, playing ps2, and going out to rec to play some dodgeball and basketball every day?
When you get home and your parents are asking you we hoped you learn your lesson and the kid says "We saw all the newest movies and got to play some ps2 while we were there, got fed real good too.. think I want to go back!" Isn't the whole point of going to a jail to make you think about life a little more so you don't want to come back?

I just gave up the juvenile job about 5 days ago. It wasn't that bad working with kids, lots of fights and so on (kids will be kids) but I could never agree with them having ps2 and virtually unlimited access to TV and movies. (Each mod had their own TV/VCR/DVD player - and the ps2 was shared between the 3 different mods.) If you have a thick skull it can actually be a lot of fun working with bad kids. You'll see a lot of action and have "hands on" a lot of time, but in the end if you show the kids respect most of them show it back to you. I was one of the few officers there that they respected and they all knew what I thought about having a ps2 while in jail. I'm going to miss that job but that's for another topic.

Really what I'm getting at is, our justice system is way too relaxed here in the U.S. Prisons continue to be over crowded and new ones are needing to be be built. Who pays for all of this? Your tax dollars of course. People who get the death pentalty are often on it for years upon years.. living off of our taxes.
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I work hard for my money, and when I see a good chunk of it gone for taxes, it just pisses me off knowing what they're doing with that money. (Prisons aren't the only thing.)

As far as torturing the mentally ill, well I won't even get into it because you lost me at injecting her own child full of shit. Mentally ill or not, when you drop that low you need to face up to what you've done. And she did it for attention? Lets give her the attention she wants by sending her to death row and causing an uproar with all the death row opponents. Give them something to talk about.
Hell they were even defending Timothy McVeigh who murdered Americans of all ages, including children.

IMO, the death pentalty isn't used enough here in the States and those who break the law in any of it's forms just don't learn from it because the places they go (whether it be jail, a detention center, or prison) are far too laid back and relaxed.
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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2005, 09:06:29 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "farley2k"
I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?

Only if he's injecting that shit into his kid.



So your response, in all seriousness, to torture is torture?  More over your response to the actions of the mentally ill is to torture them.

I see this kid around town here who has to wear a helmet and he will sometimes start smacking his head at things, maybe you would like to come beat the shit out of him.  I am sure it will help.

No I don't seriously propose torturing the mentally ill.  I'm a master's-level clinical professional counselor and have worked in the mental health field for 15 years.

That said, my experience with people like her (and I have run into a couple of cases of Munchausen's) is that they truly aren't mentally ill in the sense of people suffering from hallucinations or delusions.  They typically also don't have mood disorders like bipolar disorder.  Basically they are sociopathic people who have no conscience and couldn't care less about what they do to someone else.  Remember: "Sherrard later confessed to injecting feces into her daughter's body to get attention."

I have no sympathy for sociopaths and neither should anyone else.  Sadly, her lawyer will probably get her sentence reduced because she's "mentally ill".


Fine so you have no sympathy.  I don't really either, but I sure as hell don't want to live under a state that would condone torture of it's prisoners.  What that woman did is utterly disgusting and barbaric. So are societies that endorse torture of convicts for part of their punishment.  I'm sure you know from your expertise in the field that no sociopath is likely to be deterred from being the next  Munchausen's by the risk of being tortured.  They simply don't think that way.

It would seem the only real reasons we would condone torturing our prisoners as has been called for in this thread is to provide sick visceral amusement for folks on the internet and to fulfill some warped sense of retribution.  It's almost like you are saying well since she is not genuinely mentally ill my professional prohibition against torturing the mentally ill would not apply, so have at it gents!  I am going to guess that isn't how you really feel, but Roguetad, Nth Power and others seem to be very genuine in their desire for her to profoundly suffer at the hands of the state.  That's just not something we want the state to have the power to do.

For the current case I can go along with Kev.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the women should get off.  I am saying that forcing her to live in excrement until she dies of infection is not the route we want our criminal justice system to be headed.  That is unless you like the concept and going to jail for chewing gum in public for those of you yearning for an "Asian" style justice system.
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« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2005, 09:10:53 PM »

Quote from: "Enough"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "farley2k"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "farley2k"
I have a hard time with the idea expressed by some of you that tourturing the mentally ill is a good thing.  What the hell, to you kick the shit out of the crazy guy on the subway too?

Only if he's injecting that shit into his kid.



So your response, in all seriousness, to torture is torture?  More over your response to the actions of the mentally ill is to torture them.

I see this kid around town here who has to wear a helmet and he will sometimes start smacking his head at things, maybe you would like to come beat the shit out of him.  I am sure it will help.

No I don't seriously propose torturing the mentally ill.  I'm a master's-level clinical professional counselor and have worked in the mental health field for 15 years.

That said, my experience with people like her (and I have run into a couple of cases of Munchausen's) is that they truly aren't mentally ill in the sense of people suffering from hallucinations or delusions.  They typically also don't have mood disorders like bipolar disorder.  Basically they are sociopathic people who have no conscience and couldn't care less about what they do to someone else.  Remember: "Sherrard later confessed to injecting feces into her daughter's body to get attention."

I have no sympathy for sociopaths and neither should anyone else.  Sadly, her lawyer will probably get her sentence reduced because she's "mentally ill".


Fine so you have no sympathy.  I don't really either, but I sure as hell don't want to live under a state that would condone torture of it's prisoners.  What that woman did is utterly disgusting and barbaric. So are societies that endorse torture of convicts for part of their punishment.  I'm sure you know from your expertise in the field that no sociopath is likely to be deterred from being the next  Munchausen's by the risk of being tortured.  They simply don't think that way.

It would seem the only real reasons we would condone torturing our prisoners as has been called for in this thread is to provide sick visceral amusement for folks on the internet and to fulfill some warped sense of retribution.

I never said she should be tortured.  I believe my words were "bitch must die."

 Tongue

Edit: and before I'm flamed - I really don't think she should be either tortured or killed for this.  Obviously she should go away forever - maybe breaking rocks in a labor camp in Siberia or something.

I'm just not impressed by the "oh she's mentally ill" defense.  I had much more sympathy for Andrea Yates than for this cruel, nasty specimin of humanity.
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« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2005, 09:18:07 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
I never said she should be tortured.  I believe my words were "bitch must die."

 Tongue

Edit: and before I'm flamed - I really don't think she should be either tortured or killed for this.  Obviously she should go away forever - maybe breaking rocks in a labor camp in Siberia or something.

I'm just not impressed by the "oh she's mentally ill" defense.  I had much more sympathy for Andrea Yates than for this cruel, nasty specimin of humanity.


Yeah, I figured that's where you were coming from, we cool.  It's just that your response could very much be taken by context to mean you don't mind the torture of those folks who have mental illnesses that you don't find genuine.  Thanks for the clarification this is not the case.  Although I don't see how others in this thread can deny they are for torture when they are calling for lab experiments, etc. on her.

And you posted before I finished editing my post... see above.
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2005, 11:01:52 PM »

Quote from: "Enough"
I am going to guess that isn't how you really feel, but Roguetad, Nth Power and others seem to be very genuine in their desire for her to profoundly suffer at the hands of the state.  That's just not something we want the state to have the power to do.


My initial reaction was just that, my first reaction to reading about what that lady had done to her child.  Would I seriously advocate for someone to be locked into a cell with their own poop?  Not after my conscious and humanity had time to catch up to my initial reaction of anger and disgust.  Due process goes along way in preventing people like me from making emotional judgments of punishment based on initial reactions.  

I do strongly feel that in this particular case, that lady needs to be accountable for her actions.  After everything is said and done, what the heck do you sentence her with?  Jail time, mental health treatment?  What if her daughter dies in the upcoming weeks from all of her complications and surgeries, or has life long disabilities courtesy of her mother?  The only serious recommendation I'd make is that she not be given the privilege of ever caring for another human being.
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2005, 06:53:46 AM »

Quote from: "Roguetad"
but then how do we punish people that violate our laws?


Give them a hug?
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2005, 06:11:13 PM »

Quote from: "Purge"
Quote from: "Roguetad"
but then how do we punish people that violate our laws?


Give them a hug?


Yeah clearly that's what the people who object to torturing our prisoners are obviously advocating in this thread.  Please.

Roguetad that was a well thought out response and I can relate to the initial reactions to this story.
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