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Author Topic: Big Day For Shifty (and other NHL deadline deals)  (Read 3116 times)
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gellar
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« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2007, 10:38:24 PM »

Quote from: DocD on February 28, 2007, 10:17:58 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 28, 2007, 03:57:34 AM

I'm calling it now:  Ryan Smyth - LA King next year.  Unless someone wants to outbid maybe $5 mil per for the guy, I can guarantee the Kings will gun hard after him.

He'd look damn fine on a line with Kopitar and O'Sullivan.

gellar

I think a Kopitar, Smyth, Frolov would be better. O'Sullivan hasn't proved he's ready to play on the first line yet.

docD

Yeah but I've noticed for some reason, Fro and Kopitar don't play well together at all.  Fro seems to gel pretty well with Armstrong and Cammy though.

gellar
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kronovan
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« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2007, 10:43:31 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 28, 2007, 09:27:36 PM

Name 5 franchise goaltenders not named Brodeur who were good enough to maintain "franchise" level for over 5 years.  I'll wait.

gellar

If you mean currently still playing the game that's tough, but  otherwise some from recent history and current:

1. Mike Vernon (Cgy)
2. Kurt McLean (Vcr)
3. Patrick Roy (Col)
4. Grant Fuhr (Edm)
5. Curtis Joseph (Stl)
6. Oleg Kolzig (Wsh)
7. Tomas Vokoun (Nsh)
8. Evgeny Nabokov (Sj)
9. Jean Sebastien Giguere (Ana)

They certainly weren't too uncommon in the western conference in the 90's
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 10:48:39 PM by kronovan » Logged
gellar
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« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2007, 11:02:22 PM »

Yeah sorry, I meant current.  Out of your list though:

1. Mike Vernon (Cgy) <-- never spectacular but consistently very good.  I'd actually forgotten about him, but good call.
2. Kurt McLean (Vcr) <-- I think you mean Kirk, but I wouldn't call him franchise level (unless your franchise was very bad).  He had years of 3.5x+ GAA spattered throughout his career)
3. Patrick Roy (Col) <-- Yes, absolutely
4. Grant Fuhr (Edm) <-- Grant Fuhr has never put more than 5 years of consistent play together.  He also had years of absolutely terrible play.  One of the most overrated goalies of all time, IMHO.
5. Curtis Joseph (Stl) <-- Yep. With you on that one.
6. Oleg Kolzig (Wsh) <-- Wow he's had a better career than I thought.
7. Tomas Vokoun (Nsh) <-- Yes, but incredibly injury prone lately.
8. Evgeny Nabokov (Sj) <-- Not even the #1 goalie on his team over the past 2 years.
9. Jean Sebastien Giguere (Ana) <-- Wow he's had a much better career than I thought too.  Maybe it's cause I hate the Ducks.

The thing with DiPietro is that I don't see that he's even remotely close to half the goaltenders on the list above.  He's certainly a marketable guy, being US born and playing on the US National Team, but one or two ABOVE AVERAGE (not even great) years in the NHL are not worth a contract like that.  Hell, I wouldn't even give Ryan Miller that contract and he's a much better goalie than Rick is.

I just disagree with the concept of tying that much money on a goaltender, who by their very nature are fragile both physically and mentally.  DiPietro has yet to show any ability to perform under pressure, as the Isles have yet to hit the playoffs.  15 years is a long time for even a Defenseman, who's play is relatively stable throughout their career.  15 years for a Goalie is both an eternity AND insanity.

I had a hell of a laugh at that contract.  I really did.

gellar
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pr0ner
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« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2007, 11:38:14 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 28, 2007, 09:27:36 PM

Quote from: Starshifter on February 28, 2007, 09:00:16 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 28, 2007, 06:38:24 PM

Quote from: Starshifter on February 28, 2007, 06:26:55 PM

I think Smyth will remain an Islander next year.  You don't go out and trade away two young prospects and a first round draft pick for someone who will play 19 games and possibly a round of playoffs.  That would be stupid.  Although, Milbury is still a part of the Islander organization so anything could happen.

I'm hoping there is some way they can dump the dead weight that is Alexi Yashin.  Then signing Smyth won't be a problem.

Ahem.  It's the Islanders.  Need I remind you of:

A) You're aforementioned Yashin contract pariah.  You're stuck with that one.
and...
B) REPEATING THE SAME THING with DiPietro.  Brilliant!

Nothing is guaranteed on the Isle.  Other than comedy, that is.

gellar


With DiPietro I don't mind because he is actually a very, very good goaltender - a franchise goaltender if you will.

Name 5 franchise goaltenders not named Brodeur who were good enough to maintain "franchise" level for over 5 years.  I'll wait.

gellar

DiPietro isn't even one of the top 5 goaltenders in the NHL, RIGHT NOW.  Franchise level be damned.  I would take Brodeur, Kipper, Luongo, Miller, or Giguere over DiPietro without thinking twice, and there are at least 5 more I'd go to before DiPietro.

He was definitely not deserving of that contract.
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« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2007, 11:40:57 PM »

Oh, and if we're talking franchise level, over at least 5 years, who are still playing:

Brodeur
Hasek
Giguere
Turco
Belfour

Though you can definitely argue Hasek and Belfour aren't at franchise level anymore.
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kronovan
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« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2007, 12:36:12 AM »

Quote from: gellar on February 28, 2007, 11:02:22 PM

2. Kurt McLean (Vcr) <-- I think you mean Kirk, but I wouldn't call him franchise level (unless your franchise was very bad).  He had years of 3.5x+ GAA spatterd throughout his career)
Ahh! I got Captain Kirks' name wrong...the shame. His GAA may have been high, but until this year he was the best 5+ year goalie in Vancouver. Expect Luongo to put in 5+ years on the Canucks. We need him that long, if only to exercise all of the demons from the Canuck goalie grave yard slywink

Quote
4. Grant Fuhr (Edm) <-- Grant Fuhr has never put more than 5 years of consistent play together.  He also had years of absolutely terrible play.  One of the most overrated goalies of all time, IMHO.
Yup, I wasn't too sure about Fuhr but though he had 6 good years. I also thought about Bill Ranford but I really wasn't sure he put in 5 or more years with the Oilers

Quote
8. Evgeny Nabokov (Sj) <-- Not even the #1 goalie on his team over the past 2 years.
I had forgotten his more recent years, I always remember his good performances before the lock-out.

Quote
15 years is a long time for even a Defenseman, who's play is relatively stable throughout their career.  15 years for a Goalie is both an eternity AND insanity.

I agree. I really think the NHL should disallow contracts longer than 5 years. Give another team a chance at a Patrick Roy or Marty Brodeur.
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Devil
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« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2007, 01:57:57 AM »

Nice to  see we all agree that Marty is the best goaltender in the history of the game.  icon_wink

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I agree. I really think the NHL should disallow contracts longer than 5 years. Give another team a chance at a Patrick Roy or Marty Brodeur.

You're kidding? If a guy, and a team wants to sign a 400 year contract, they can do whatever they want. That's the nature of contracts and agreements. There's HUGE risks for both parties.

So you're pretty much saying you're against a guy playing his whole career with one team? Yzerman outside of Detroit?!?!  icon_wink
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kronovan
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« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2007, 02:04:44 AM »

Quote from: Devil on March 01, 2007, 01:57:57 AM

Nice to  see we all agree that Marty is the best goaltender in the history of the game.  icon_wink

Quote
I agree. I really think the NHL should disallow contracts longer than 5 years. Give another team a chance at a Patrick Roy or Marty Brodeur.

You're kidding? If a guy, and a team wants to sign a 400 year contract, they can do whatever they want. That's the nature of contracts and agreements. There's HUGE risks for both parties.

So you're pretty much saying you're against a guy playing his whole career with one team? Yzerman outside of Detroit?!?!  icon_wink

Nope, I'm just against other teams not having a chance to bid. A 5 year limit still doesn't prevent the same team from resigning the player again in 5 years.
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Koz
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« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2007, 03:03:00 AM »

Any contract over 5 years is very rare even without that rule. Ricky D's contract is a freak of nature. He's a good goalie, but a 15 year good goalie? I don't think so.

I wouldn't even give Brodeur a contract that long because it's too risky with injuries and such.
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« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2007, 04:01:23 AM »

Quote from: gellar on February 28, 2007, 10:37:47 PM

Quote from: DocD on February 28, 2007, 10:11:58 PM

Quote from: gellar on February 27, 2007, 10:18:32 PM

SELL BABY.  SELL!!!!

FIRST OVERALL PICK HERE WE COME.

GO KINGS GO.

gellar

If we hadn't picked up Burke we'd already have locked the number one pick. I feel a little sorry for letting Matty go especially when we kept some road apples (I'm looking at you Blake, Miller and Garon) but overall I think we got more than should have from our trades.

docD


Agreed.  Part of me was hoping they'd play Fukufuji all year.  I do think Miller is underrated this year though.  He was terrible the past few years, but this year I'd call him our 2nd best D-man behind Lubo.

gellar

I'd put Miller #3 after Lubo and Sopel. The other kings D men are terrible. Norstrom and Blake are too slow to defend with the new rules. I still have a lot of love for Norstrom he was a good defender that anchored the Kings for years but age and the strike have caught up to him. Kings are going to need to pick up a couple top D men this off season if they want any chance at being competitive next year.

docD
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« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2007, 01:27:20 PM »

You guys are pretty darn brutal.  Chill out a bit.  I never said DiPietro was the best goalie.  But, he is certainly not your average goaltender.  The guy is good.  Has good range and is very dynamic.  A goalie is only as good as the team in front of him.  Even the best of goaltenders will break down if the team in front of him can't keep the shots away.  Brodeur is the exception.  He is an anomaly.  A freak of nature.  icon_wink  I've watched enough Islander games to know that this guy has kept the team in many games on his talent alone as the team in front of him eroded as the game went on.  And I'll take DiPietro in a shootout anytime.

I agree about the 15yr contract.  I would never do that.  But you know what?  The deal is done.  It was idiotic.  Let's move on.

So Gellar, you never answered my question.  Who do you like?

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gellar
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« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2007, 04:09:38 PM »

I answered it before you asked it.

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« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2007, 05:44:17 PM »

I like what the Caps got for guys who weren't going to sign as UFA's anyway.  Now we have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds (though yeah, it's going to be a weak draft year).  Novotny could be a decent pickup, but I know next to nothing about him.
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