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Author Topic: Barry Bonds deserves no sympathy  (Read 2273 times)
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depward
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« on: March 23, 2005, 05:30:22 AM »

I know it's a little old'ish, but I have to get this out.  I have zero respect for Barry Bonds.  Sure the man can hit home runs, change the whole way his team plays, and so forth . . . but he has an attitude of a 12 year-old.

Does anyone else find it pretty timely how steriod talk about how he has possibly taken steriods has been quite intense as of late and now he just says how the media has "broken" him and that he might miss the entire season?  I see it like a Mark McGwire kind of move.  He's denied using steriods, but why not vehemently deny it?!  You're approaching the pinnacle of sports records (in some peoples' books) and yet you haven't really strongly and forcefully tried to clear your name of these steroid rumors floating around about you?!  And now the media has broken you down and you just might sit out the season because of it.  Hmm.  Or maybe he finally wised up and thought that it would be morally wrong to break the home-run record.

Anyways, I'm just sick of it.  One of the most interesting quotes I heard when I was watching the congressional hearings was from Jim Dunning (something like that   biggrin ) when he said that when he played, older players got worse and worse - they didn't crank out more and more home-runs from when they were younger.  I'm just sick of Barry Bonds.
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RightBastard
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2005, 05:50:54 AM »

Crap, irregardless of how I or you or anybody else feels about him, the Giants are gonna have a tougher time contending in the N.L. West without him.  Just when we put together a decent line up too... :cry:
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2005, 05:54:38 AM »

"Irregardless isnt even a word!"
"Yes it is. I means complete lack of regard"
"I pity you"
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2005, 07:40:16 AM »

I saw Bonds video clips on PTI and Around the Horn, what a frickin' crybaby!
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Nth Power
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2005, 01:15:58 PM »

Ahh, I get to rant about Bonds!  :

I'm disgusted with the fact the Bonds will taint the record books with his steroid-aided numbers.  
I refuse to acknowledge him being the all-time leader in anything since he couldn't get there on his own.  
I'm actually glad he's not part of the MLBPA, so when I play MVP Baseball I don't have to see his name.

/rant off
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morlac
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2005, 02:17:21 PM »

In an interview yesterday he said he was sick of hearing his kids cry.  He backhandidly blamed the media for this, completley ignoring the fact that it just came to light that he has a long term mistress living in a house he pays for.  Nice job Barry!  If I was your kid I'd be crying too if you did that to my Momma.  No sympathy here.
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2005, 04:51:29 PM »

Funny how it's all the media's fault that he is 'broken down'.  I don't recall him ever complaining or telling the media to stop when they were busy giving him props.  Here's an idea:  If you're truly innocent of steroid use as you claim, then do some damn work to clear your name.  Take a test (now, not after the season when your body has had 7 months to detox), help the investigation, vehemently deny steroid allegations every day...shit, do anything.  Just sitting there whining about it does nothing but make you look more and more guilty.  If you did abuse steroids, be a man and fess up to it.  I would have a ton more respect for any of these guys if they'd just come out and admits it.  At least we could applaud their honesty and start moving towards a solution.

Bonds has always been an ass, is currently being an ass, and will always continue to be an ass.  Some guys just never change.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2005, 07:49:06 PM »

Bonds has been always been an ass; he has always believed that the media should kiss his ass and worship him, and has always been disgruntled with the media that they haven't.  Sad thing is, our society has continued to enable his behavior and will continue to do so for all the assholes just like him.

Now depward, I do have a bone to pick with your post.  I am rapidly growing sick of hearing people saying Mcguire's non-denial amounts to proof that he's guilty, and 'oh he's the biggest loser'.  Did you see Mcquire when he entered the league? AS a rookie, he hit 49 homers and was already a large man.  Bonds? (*cough* sosa *cough*) These guys miraculously put on 45+ pounds of muscle and are knocking more out of the park than any two years from their first decade.  Obviously something is up way more in those cases than Big Mac (Who I'm not exonerating here, just pointing out he's probably benefitted from Steroids less than certain other major stars in this league).

And as I've said repeatedly: I don't disregard any homerun records set nowadays because of steroids: I disregard them because the entire league jumped 30% a decade ago when they juiced the ball to artifically produce big numbers, thus invalidating todays stats in comparison to the historical game.
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depward
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2005, 04:22:02 AM »

Meh, McGwire was a pretty big athlete when he first entered the league, yep.  So why the heck won't he "talk about the past" then?  Maybe it's just an "if he doesn't deny - he's guilty" mentality, but if you ARE indeed innocent of what people are saying about you, you could at least say something about it.  Not just shake your head when asked to deny it and then explaing how you don't want to talk about your past.

And yeah, Sosa and Bonds have put on a whole lot of pounds - more so than McGwire.  But still.  If he used steriods, then he's guilty of something, no matter how much of an actual usage he did.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2005, 04:26:07 AM »

A local ESPN radio personality referred to Bonds as a racist, then the other guy agreed with him. He then quickly pointed out "But Bonds is racist against the human race, not just black versus white." I'd have to agree on that one - Bonds hates everyone not named Barry Bonds. smile
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depward
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2005, 05:38:54 AM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
A local ESPN radio personality referred to Bonds as a racist, then the other guy agreed with him. He then quickly pointed out "But Bonds is racist against the human race, not just black versus white." I'd have to agree on that one - Bonds hates everyone not named Barry Bonds. smile

HAHA so true, so true   :lol:
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Rhinohelix
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2005, 04:25:28 PM »

McGwire, while a large-framed man, was still much smaller when he arrived in the league.  His home-run hitting, which was good, wasn't in the legendary, record-breaking status.

I met Bonds in 1991.  He was about 210-ish and still looked like a pro baseball player.  Over the years, as he came on stronger (pardon the pun), you can see all the tell-tale signs of steriod use.  As I have heard said, there are very few things that make the muscles in you head larger.  If McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds haven't used steroids, then I want the supplements they are on. smile  

I don't have an opinion yet honestly about the disposition of the records.  I don't know whether or not to asterisk their achievements.  I do know that steroids were illegal while assisting the achievements of the players, so that would have to factor in.

The way they obfuscated was indeed dishonorable.

Rhino
Disclaimer: I have fairly extensive exposure to steriod use, which I never partook of.  Not to be sanctimonious, it was just something that never appealed to me.  I can understand why people use them, though, particularly those who play sports for a living.
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RightBastard
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2005, 11:35:11 PM »

Quote from: "Rhinohelix"
McGwire, while a large-framed man, was still much smaller when he arrived in the league.  His home-run hitting, which was good, wasn't in the legendary, record-breaking status.


Agree with the being smaller part, disagree with the not legendary, record-breaking status part.  He did set a rookie season record with 49 in 1987.  Which is one defense for him (along with Bonds) because they demonstrated home run power before there was any visual signs that could possibly be linked to steroid use.  Contrast that with Raphael Palmerio, whose home run production coincidentally jumped after Jose Canseco joined the Rangers.  Before that, he was hitting ~8 homers a year.

It's sad that the season is about to start and this is the garbage that we have to deal it.  I hate that I can't be excited about the upcoming season without having ot factor this crap into the equation.  Guess we needed to air out the dirty laundry though.
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2005, 12:10:39 AM »

Rightbastard took one of my points: it's not just that Mcguire hit 49: 49 lead the league that year (Again, before the juiced ball/expansion era), so it's not like he wasn't able to belt the hell out of them.  And while he definetely wasn't as big a man as later in his career, how many guys at 20 years old without a personal trainer are filled out to their full possibility?  Mcguire's muscel gain isn't to far removed from what you could expect of a large framed man getting money/time to focus on developing his body over ten years.  As Rhinohelix perfectly pointed out (and it's the argument most people point to), there is NO rational explanation for the physical dimensions of Bonds' head.  [For anyone else who remembers it: Think of Ben Johnson's "implausible deltoid" picture.]
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Nth Power
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 03:19:49 AM »

Looks like it's official in what everyone had suspected. Steroids are Bonds' best friend.

It sounds like the main reason he started was because of jealousy over Mark McGwire.  What a tool.

...and he still doesn't deserve any sympathy.
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Kev199
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 04:47:23 AM »

I've long given up on caring about home run stats in MLB.  Barry Bonds along  with a sizeable percentage of players used steroids or other similar drugs.  It's time to move on and leave it up to the Hall of Fame voters on whether they choose to vote them in or not.  It would be difficult to add asterisks to the stats of these players since the drug testing had not been in effect (except Rafael).  Baseball is America's past time and when I'm at a game I'm not thinking about steroids, I'm looking to cheer (or jeer) for my team.



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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 02:43:49 PM »

Quote from: "Nth Power"
Ahh, I get to rant about Bonds!  :

I'm disgusted with the fact the Bonds will taint the record books with his steroid-aided numbers.  
I refuse to acknowledge him being the all-time leader in anything since he couldn't get there on his own.  
I'm actually glad he's not part of the MLBPA, so when I play MVP Baseball I don't have to see his name.

/rant off

His 'records' should be struck from the record books and any titles he holds stripped from him.

Blasted druggy.
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Scott
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2006, 03:41:34 PM »

Bonds should be placed along with Rose, and be banned from the HoF.  What a joke.  Even better, hopefully he goes to jail for perjury.  What do I know though, I'm just a racist according to Bonds because I live in NE.
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2006, 02:48:29 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Bonds should be placed along with Rose, and be banned from the HoF.  What a joke.  Even better, hopefully he goes to jail for perjury.  What do I know though, I'm just a racist according to Bonds because I live in NE.


Why should Bonds be banned from the HoF?  What did Bonds do wrong according to the rules of baseball?
[/i]
I find this position to be hypocritical in the extreme.  We all knew - or strongly suspected - that the game was being tampered with in the mid-90s by roids, juiced baseball, etc.  Collectively, we ignored it.  Baseball ignored it.  Instead, we cheered McGwire during his HR chase and Sosa right behind him.  MLB was happy.  More tickets were sold.  More merchandise was sold.  The sour taste after the '94 strike ended.  ESPN and other sports media were happy.  Higher ratings, more money.  

Baseball did nothing until their hand was forced by Congress.  

Steriods were illegal in the USA, but not in baseball.  Therefore - according to the rules of the game - Bonds juicing it up is no different than 1/2 of the '86 Mets teams snorting Coke, or any number of illegal controlled substances that have been used through the years.  You can't be charged ex post facto in the US courts - why should baseball be any different?

The simple fact is that regardless of what he did, it wasn't in violation of the rules of the game.  If he tests positive now, then he gets the book thrown at him.  But for Sosa, McGwire, Bonds and anyone else suspected of being a 'roid user, it's all immaterial.

As an aside, I think 'roid usage in baseball was (and still is) rampant.  I love Nomar, but he was a weak singles hitter in the minors.  Two years later, he's blasting 30 HRs over the fences.  There's countless examples of it out there.  Guys who didn't even have warning track power who then were hitting 20-25 out of the park.  Pitchers who couldn't top 88 on the radar gun throwing in the mid-90s.  Baseball made this situation.  If you really want to blame someone, don't attend or watch a game.  It's the owners and the commish who set the stage for this to happen.

Bonds juicing it up doesn't bother me in the least.  I hope he breaks every record out there.  I'd like to see Bud Selig and the rest of this cesspool sport reap what it's sown.
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walTer
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« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2006, 02:36:21 AM »

And Kirby Puckett attacked a woman with a power saw....see that seems worse to me than Bonds.

Agreed...*IF* Bonds is a roid monkey, well he truly puts a sad note on the game of baseball.

Sadly this is quite common with sports figures today...great role models, all of 'em.

sheesh
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Scott
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« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2006, 04:38:44 AM »

Quote
If you really want to blame someone, don't attend or watch a game. It's the owners and the commish who set the stage for this to happen.

I don't.  Baseball is a joke.  The rich teams dominate while the poor teams struggle. Let alone all the problems like Bonds.

Bonds may not have violated the letter of the law for baseball, yet he cheated the game.  Bonds fans can defend him all he wants, whatever.  He's a poor human being, and I am amused that anyone can like the man or root for him.  Statistics and the statistical records are one of baseballs strong points.  The all time leaders in homeruns, hrs in a season, etc. are huge milestones that help define baseball.  Stats in other sports don't really stand out, but baseball, with its rich history, and history of statistics really makes the game.  Bonds made a mockery of all that.  If Bonds ends up breaking the all time HR record, he makes a mockery of the game of baseball.

What is truly sad, is that if Bonds didn't cheat, he'd still be one of the all time greats.  

What is the penalty for using illegal steroids?  Jail?  Its possible that he should have been drummed out of the game years ago just because of legal issues.

As far as the other players that have used roids, certainly they should be punished and mocked as well.

Quote
And Kirby Puckett attacked a woman with a power saw....see that seems worse to me than Bonds.

No doubts, which suprises me why so many people love Puckett for the questionable things he's done.

Quote

Sadly this is quite common with sports figures today...great role models, all of 'em.

Nah, you're way over generalizing.  When it comes down to it, I imagine the percentage of clean pro athletes, ones that don't commit crimes or do anything to embarass themselves are higher then the percentage of common people.  Athletes are just more visible, but there are truly exceptional athletes around.  Look at all the Patriots that are good role models for example, and other players like Payton Manning, etc.  There are also lots of other excellent examples spread out.  

Its a shame to mis-characterize the large percentage because of a few true jerks like Bonds.
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walTer
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2006, 06:10:59 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"

Nah, you're way over generalizing.  When it comes down to it, I imagine the percentage of clean pro athletes, ones that don't commit crimes or do anything to embarass themselves are higher then the percentage of common people.  Athletes are just more visible, but there are truly exceptional athletes around.  Look at all the Patriots that are good role models for example, and other players like Payton Manning, etc.  There are also lots of other excellent examples spread out.  

Its a shame to mis-characterize the large percentage because of a few true jerks like Bonds.


True--I stand corrected- It is the squeaky wheels that get all the press.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2006, 12:16:20 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"

I don't.  Baseball is a joke.  The rich teams dominate while the poor teams struggle. Let alone all the problems like Bonds.

Bonds may not have violated the letter of the law for baseball, yet he cheated the game.  Bonds fans can defend him all he wants, whatever.  He's a poor human being, and I am amused that anyone can like the man or root for him.  Statistics and the statistical records are one of baseballs strong points.  The all time leaders in homeruns, hrs in a season, etc. are huge milestones that help define baseball.  Stats in other sports don't really stand out, but baseball, with its rich history, and history of statistics really makes the game.  Bonds made a mockery of all that.  If Bonds ends up breaking the all time HR record, he makes a mockery of the game of baseball.

What is truly sad, is that if Bonds didn't cheat, he'd still be one of the all time greats.  

What is the penalty for using illegal steroids?  Jail?  Its possible that he should have been drummed out of the game years ago just because of legal issues.

As far as the other players that have used roids, certainly they should be punished and mocked as well.



Baseball is a joke and has been for some while.

We will never know how many guys took 'roids.  But when you have folks like Caminitti saying over 50% did, there's a good bet that a large segment of players have done something.  You might as well start a giant witch hunt and wipe out the last 15 years of records.  Maybe we can resurrect Joe McCarthy from the grave to do Congressional hearings!

No one talks about taking away Caminitti's MVP award and we know he did 'roids.  Why should Bonds be singled out?

I don't particularly like Bonds, but I don't see him as cheating at all.  Again, no one can debate this one fact - Bonds didn't break the rules of baseball.  I don't condone what he did, but it's very clear that the owners, players, media and commish set the table for this exact scenario.  If this was the story of Adam and Eve, Bud Selig (and others) would be the snake saying "here, take a bite of this apple".

The thing is, I firmly believe baseball has been grossly negligent for 20 years and that many, many players have taken 'roids.  I don't see why all the venom should be turned towards 1 or 2 players when it's the institution that caused the problem.  

Did Bonds do something wrong?  Yes, but it wasn't against the rules of the game.  Therefore, I don't see how he can be punished by baseball (the feds are a different story).
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