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Author Topic: Army officer to be court-martialed  (Read 919 times)
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corruptrelic
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« on: November 10, 2006, 03:49:14 AM »

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An Army lieutenant who challenged the Bush administration's reasons for going to war in Iraq and then refused to deploy to the country will face a military trial, the Army said Thursday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_re_us/war_objector

I have to hand it to this guy for standing up against Dubya's war of choice, although still, if you voluntarily join the military and then get called up to war that shouldn't come as a suprise. (Sort of like someone joining the fire department and then all of a sudden when an actual fire hits he says "Wait, we have to put out a fire?!")
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Toe
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2006, 12:36:58 PM »

If I was a sketch writer for SNL, I would write a sketch where Bush takes the stand and gives a "You can't handle the truth" speech. "We use werds like honoration, loyaltality, and codefecation...."
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ATB
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2006, 01:14:32 PM »

Some good stories about heroic soldiers in Iraq and the medals they've earned.
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Crux
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2006, 01:31:07 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 10, 2006, 01:14:32 PM


Wow. Now it's almost as though the first post doesn't even exist any more. Way to defend freedom, ATB.
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olaf
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2006, 01:50:52 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 10, 2006, 01:14:32 PM

Great link man
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2006, 02:01:12 PM »

Man, we seriously need to start giving out more Medals of Honor.  If you read through a lot of the transcripts of those awarded in Vietnam, a lot of these guys are doing the same things.  Especially guys who take a grenade. 
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Suitably Ironic Moniker
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2006, 05:08:13 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 10, 2006, 02:01:12 PM

Man, we seriously need to start giving out more Medals of Honor.  If you read through a lot of the transcripts of those awarded in Vietnam, a lot of these guys are doing the same things.  Especially guys who take a grenade. 

MoH's take time, so it could definitely happen.
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dbt1949
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2006, 05:25:09 PM »

Back to the original post...........that guy should have to pay for the consequents of his actions. If this were the draft back in my days I might feel some sympathy for him but not now. Why in the world did he enlist in the first place? Did he think he was going back to collage?
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Ye Olde Farte
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2006, 05:32:22 PM »

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 10, 2006, 05:25:09 PM

Back to the original post...........that guy should have to pay for the consequents of his actions. If this were the draft back in my days I might feel some sympathy for him but not now. Why in the world did he enlist in the first place? Did he think he was going back to collage?

Very true.
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ROTC1983
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2006, 12:57:57 AM »

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 10, 2006, 05:25:09 PM

Back to the original post...........that guy should have to pay for the consequents of his actions. If this were the draft back in my days I might feel some sympathy for him but not now. Why in the world did he enlist in the first place? Did he think he was going back to collage?

As I am myself going through the ROTC program to become an officer, I know that you swear an oath during a ceremony saying you will obey any lawful order given and that President is your commander in Chief...He might be against the war, but he signed up as an US Officer and therefore he volunteered to do all of this.  I have plenty of friends that are against the war, but they agreed to become officers and they will not turn their back to the oath they made.  He could have changed his mind before he was commissioned as an officer, but he went through with the whole thing.  Reminds me of the guy who joined the marines just for the money he gets for school.
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dbt1949
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2006, 01:31:22 AM »

Remind me some day to tell you of the time I was told to teach some ROTC students how to shoot an M-14. icon_biggrin
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2006, 01:40:56 AM »

Yeah, obey any LAWFUL order.  IIRC, Watada's logic is that this is an illegal war, therefore, his orders to go fight it is itself illegal.  Hence, no need to obey. 

IIRC, again, he tried to compromise by asking to be sent to Afganistan instead, but was denied. 

I'm not saying, "go Watada!" or anything.
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2006, 09:21:00 AM »

Quote from: SuperHiro on November 11, 2006, 01:40:56 AM

Yeah, obey any LAWFUL order.  IIRC, Watada's logic is that this is an illegal war, therefore, his orders to go fight it is itself illegal.  Hence, no need to obey. 

IIRC, again, he tried to compromise by asking to be sent to Afganistan instead, but was denied. 

I'm not saying, "go Watada!" or anything.

"Unlawful" order means it goes against the Constitution or the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The individuals at Abu Ghraib were guilty because they followed an unlawful order as defined by the set laws. It doesn't mean a person can just say "I think that this war is illegal" and not fulfill his or her duty as a military member. Otherwise, there would be total chaos as half the people would be disobeying orders left and right just because they disagreed with them.

ETA: The miltary isn't a travel agency. He can't just request Afghanistan instead of Iraq. How fair would that be to the person who would have to fill his slot? We go where we're told. I've gone to Afghanistan and to Kuwait in the past few years and I wasn't excited about either one (and am opposed to us being in Iraq), yet I went to do my duty.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 06:50:49 PM by Suitably Ironic Moniker » Logged

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ROTC1983
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2006, 10:31:35 AM »

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 11, 2006, 01:31:22 AM

Remind me some day to tell you of the time I was told to teach some ROTC students how to shoot an M-14. icon_biggrin

*Thread Hijack*  Please do tell biggrin
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dbt1949
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2006, 01:57:14 AM »

After I got back from overseas I was retraining at Ft Bliss Texas. While I was there they told a few of us vets to go out to the rifle range and grade the shooting capabilities of these senior ROTC students. This is around 1970. They were to use use the M-14 rifles. Come to find out all they had ever been training with was the old M1 Girands from WW2! M-14s were even being phased out at this time.
So we had to give them a class in the working of the M-14 (which are basically more advanced M1s). After this we went out to grade their firing skills. It was funny as every few minutes one of them would say the rifle was jammed or screwed up and that's why they couldn't hit anything. So I'd come down the line to them, grab the the rifle from them aim and shoot the 300 meter targets one after another with no misses. I'd usually do about 6-7 before handed them the rifle back and say "works fine for me". The look of disbelief on the faces was quite comical.
We gave them all "Expert" marks even tho they were some of the worst shots I'd ever seen. What did we care?

And to think, some of these guys might have gone on to retire as generals.  :icon_confused:

And to add.....I think they were probably older than me too. eek
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Ye Olde Farte
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