Apple tells M$ to stop with the ads?

[leo8877]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoftpri0/2009478016_applecallsmicrosoftweveloweredourprices.html?tsp=1

If this is true it's amazing...after all the bashing of the I'm a Mac, I'm a PC ads, this is the most ridiculous thing ever.

[Brendan]

Man, those M$ guy$ must be doing $omething right.

[msteelers]

"It was the greatest single phone call that I’ve ever taken in the history of business," Turner said in a presentation at the Microsoft Worldwide Partners Conference in New Orleans. "I did cartwheels down the hallway."

Awesome.

[Laner]

Some are arguing that since Apple dropped the prices with their latest refresh the Laptop Hunter ads are no longer accurate.

Apple's laptops are definitely better deals now, but they're still overpriced compared to their PC counterparts.

The ironing is delicious though.

[walTer]

Well, if MS IS misrepresenting the Mac prices, then they do have a valid point?

/has a Macbook and yes they ARE expensive...

(hee jinx)

[kronovan]

I like this:

Microsoft said it received a call from Apple saying Microsoft needs to stop running the laptop-hunter TV ads that harp on Apple for expensive computers. Why? Because Apple has lowered is prices.

Translated: Mac laptop prices are now only 1/2 way to totally and completely out of alignment with windows based laptops with similar components.

Can't tell you how thrilled I am with the MacBook Pro I bought my nephew for close to $2500 3 years ago. Yeah that'd be the one in which the harddrive whiped out, beyond repair, in it's 2nd year.

[leo8877]

I love my windows pc and I love my macbook, but come on, apple crap is so ridiculously overpriced it borders on criminal.  F the Apple tax!!!  Their lowering of prices was nothing.

[Chaz]

That's beyond amazing.  Apple really must have a massive set of brass balls to call MS and tell them to stop airing a successful ad campaign because it's misrepresenting things (when it's not really).  What would the threat possibly have been, "Or we'll sue you?"  I'd love to see the field day that MS's army of lawyers would have with that.

[hepcat]

My guess is that someone in marketing got a bit eager and decided to have a lawyer contact MS.  Now that the story is out, I'd imagine that marketing employee is looking for a new job.   

[rittchard]

I love my windows pc and I love my macbook, but come on, apple crap is so ridiculously overpriced it borders on criminal.  F the Apple tax!!!  Their lowering of prices was nothing.

I don't know if I believe this story is true, seems pretty sad if it is.  That said, if you take a really hard look at the Macbook line, it is not the overpriced monstrosity some like to make it to be.

Take the entry $999 Macbook.  Go and look for something comparable in the PC world and you'll be surprised at what you find.  But don't forget to take into account the processor, the graphics capabilities and the size/weight (most often ignored).  The 9400M chipset is Apple's biggest strength at the moment, as it has allowed them to lower their prices but challenge the cheaper mainstream laptops which generally feature Intel GMA4500 at the best, which is still behind.  In the $700-800 range you'll find some good laptops with similar processors, more RAM and a bigger hard drive, but with less graphics power.   YMMV as to what that's all worth, but it's not as clearcut as some people seem to think.

Same thing goes with the Macbook Air - you can say it's incredibly overpriced compared to similarly specced laptops - until you do a real search and find out there is nothing out there in the same weight class that has the same performance; a couple of competitors have come close, but fell short in either the processor or graphics again.

As you get to the higher end Macbook Pro line, the comparisons start to become more interesting.  But again, it's important to compare everything - size/weight, screen size, resolution, battery life, processor power, etc when you are doing these types of comparisons.

[Chaz]

I suppose the difference, and the point of the ads, is that while the low-end Macbook may (now) be comparatively prices with PC laptops of that spec range, what if you don't need those specs? Well, if you're looking at PCs, there's an incredibly wide range of models available at a huge range of prices, going down to a few hundred dollars.  If all you need is basic word processing and web browsing, then you can get away with a low-end machine for a cheap price.  If you're looking at Macs, the lowest price you can find is not cheap.  Yes, you may be getting a decent price for what you're getting, but that may be more than what you need.  That, I think, is the point of the ads, that you can get the laptop that actually fits your needs.

Analogy time! : If you need to get the five miles to and from work, a Honda Fit is certainly a good car at a good price, and will do the job, but maybe what you really need is a bike.  You can't get at the Honda dealership.

[MrZubbleWump]

It may be a marketing move and it looks like free advertising to me.  Obviously Apple does not intend to make this a legal thing and I'm sure Apple knows that the Macbook is still more expensive than a Windows laptop but they have people talking about Macbooks and how they are cheaper now.

[Laner]

Take the entry $999 Macbook.  Go and look for something comparable in the PC world and you'll be surprised at what you find.  But don't forget to take into account the processor, the graphics capabilities and the size/weight (most often ignored).  The 9400M chipset is Apple's biggest strength at the moment, as it has allowed them to lower their prices but challenge the cheaper mainstream laptops which generally feature Intel GMA4500 at the best, which is still behind.  In the $700-800 range you'll find some good laptops with similar processors, more RAM and a bigger hard drive, but with less graphics power.   YMMV as to what that's all worth, but it's not as clearcut as some people seem to think.

That's the rub now, isn't it?  Yeah, if you attempt to compare like to like, it's closer (though still in the favor of PC).  But what if you don't need, say, built-in bluetooth, or firewire, or a matte screen (save for the uber-$$$ 17"), or want a higher DPI (like a 1920x1200 15") - you're out of luck if you want a Mac.

Anecdotal evidence; last year I bought my sister a 15" Toshiba for $600.  Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 250GB hard drive.  Apple  offers nothing that can compete with that.

[Sarkus]

Apple is not really doing that well in computer sales right now.  Their market share is down on top of the general downturn in personal computer sales in general.  Their last quarter market share dropped from 8.5% to 7.6%.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2009477511_pc_market_dell_slides_into_top.html

[Brendan]

Apple is not really doing that well in computer sales right now.  Their market share is down on top of the general downturn in personal computer sales in general.  Their last quarter market share dropped from 8.5% to 7.6%.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2009477511_pc_market_dell_slides_into_top.html

That's driven in part by the sudden super-popularity of netbooks - AAPL has nothing to compete in that space at all.  Of course, many of those are going out with XP, which doesn't help me much either.   

Win 7 works great on 'em though!

[rittchard]

I suppose the difference, and the point of the ads, is that while the low-end Macbook may (now) be comparatively prices with PC laptops of that spec range, what if you don't need those specs? Well, if you're looking at PCs, there's an incredibly wide range of models available at a huge range of prices, going down to a few hundred dollars.  If all you need is basic word processing and web browsing, then you can get away with a low-end machine for a cheap price.  If you're looking at Macs, the lowest price you can find is not cheap.  Yes, you may be getting a decent price for what you're getting, but that may be more than what you need.  That, I think, is the point of the ads, that you can get the laptop that actually fits your needs.

I think you did a much better job in your description here than any of the ads do, in fact if they created the ad more clearly the way you've expressed it - emphasizing choice/options, I think it would come across more intelligent 

The ads as they stand, for the most part feel misleading to me, and in some cases the comments made are flat out stupid (I assume it's scripted but either way some of the people come across as morons) like when one of the chick says she wants something good for graphics editing or the one where they say the macbook is "too cool looking" - huh? 

[mytocles]

I'm afraid that I'm somewhat limited by my own knowledge-base and abilities to "learn new tricks" - but, wtf? There is no "backspace" key on an Apple laptop? Was it that important for them to separate themselves from MS, that one of the most common keystrokes was left in the dust?   

[Purge]

Apple is teh lozer.

from my iPhone

[Zarkon]

The commercials /did/ get changed by the way.  Now, instead of 'under $1000', it's 'under $700'.

[EngineNo9]

The commercials /did/ get changed by the way.  Now, instead of 'under $1000', it's 'under $700'.

In each of the commercials the people have a different personal budget, some as high as $1500 or so. 

The fact is, for any given price-point you can get a better PC than Mac, whether that's faster processor, more RAM, bigger display, larger hard drive or some combination of several of those factors if not all.

[Punisher]

The ironing is delicious though.

It may be delicious, but you'd probably burn your tongue....

[Ironrod]

The commercials /did/ get changed by the way.  Now, instead of 'under $1000', it's 'under $700'.

In each of the commercials the people have a different personal budget, some as high as $1500 or so. 

The fact is, for any given price-point you can get a better PC than Mac, whether that's faster processor, more RAM, bigger display, larger hard drive or some combination of several of those factors if not all.

Last week I was showing a couple of friends my new Dell Vorlon laptop, and the old Inspiron that I'm retiring. One of them is considering buying the Inspiron. The other guy reached into his backpack and pulled out a little white Apple laptop. He paid an embarrassing price for it. The screen is tiny, the whole thing looks terribly fragile, and it doesn't even have a CD drive! Yet he believes that it's a better computer than my Vorlon...because it's little? I don't get it. 

[Eightball]

The ads as they stand, for the most part feel misleading to me, and in some cases the comments made are flat out stupid 

To me, they're the PC equivalent of the "I'm a Mac" commercials.  To me, I think it's fair that someone started the PC-equivalent of those misleading commercials.

[gellar]

The ads as they stand, for the most part feel misleading to me, and in some cases the comments made are flat out stupid 

To me, they're the PC equivalent of the "I'm a Mac" commercials.  To me, I think it's fair that someone started the PC-equivalent of those misleading commercials.

Agreed.  I find them both misleading.  However at least some of the I'm a Mac commercials are funny and clever.  The PC versions aren't amusing at all.

gellar

[Exodor]

Misleading?

I recently decided I wanted a Mac.  I looked into it and maybe I was misled by Apple's website but I sure couldn't find a new Mac laptop for less than $999.

It's easy enough to find a Windows laptop for under $499.

Or compare Apples to Dells.

But I guess that's a little misleading as they're not identical hardware - the Dell has more RAM, twice the hard drive space and a DVD-RW drive.  For $300 less

I wound up buying a used Mac on on eBay.

[Zarkon]

Personally, I wonder how much money Microsoft paid to Fry's or vice versa.  And bet that they're filming those in the Fry's nearest to Cupertino.

[Laner]

The ads as they stand, for the most part feel misleading to me, and in some cases the comments made are flat out stupid 

To me, they're the PC equivalent of the "I'm a Mac" commercials.  To me, I think it's fair that someone started the PC-equivalent of those misleading commercials.

Agreed.  I find them both misleading.  However at least some of the I'm a Mac commercials are funny and clever.  The PC versions aren't amusing at all.

I don't think they're supposed to be amusing?

[iloveplywood]

I'm afraid that I'm somewhat limited by my own knowledge-base and abilities to "learn new tricks" - but, wtf? There is no "backspace" key on an Apple laptop? Was it that important for them to separate themselves from MS, that one of the most common keystrokes was left in the dust?  

Is this still true?  I remember being in shock when trying to use my wife's IMac and not seeing a backspace key, what a pain in the rear.  Has the Mac finally discovered right-clicking?

[gellar]

I'm afraid that I'm somewhat limited by my own knowledge-base and abilities to "learn new tricks" - but, wtf? There is no "backspace" key on an Apple laptop? Was it that important for them to separate themselves from MS, that one of the most common keystrokes was left in the dust?   

Is this still true?  I remember being in shock when trying to use my wife's IMac and not seeing a backspace key, what a pain in the rear.  Has the Mac finally discovered right-clicking?

There's a delete key that functions the same as Backspace (and is in the same spot) - if you hold Fn then it acts as a traditional Delete key. If you hook up a 'standard' PC keyboard, then the keys work exactly as you expect they would.

As far as right clicking goes, on a Macbook, there is a very elegant multitouch system that acts as a right click.  I much prefer this to traditional PC trackpads - it's fantastic.  Similar to the keyboard, if you plug in any mouse, right click works as expected.

I find the common misconceptions of the Macs really quite funny - often times the 'OMG DIFFERENT' functionality is actually very similar, exactly the same, or sometimes better.  The fact that they cost more is not a misconception though.

gellar

[Harkonis]

I found it funny that Major Nelson from Xbox Live uses a Mac

his twitter:

majornelsonAfter 17 TINY screws and one 'oh crap' moment during re-assembly, I now have a 500 GB 7200 RPM HDD in my Mac Book Pro for OSX and Win 7.

[CeeKay]

I found it funny that Major Nelson from Xbox Live uses a Mac

his twitter:

majornelsonAfter 17 TINY screws and one 'oh crap' moment during re-assembly, I now have a 500 GB 7200 RPM HDD in my Mac Book Pro for OSX and Win 7.

hey, even grown-ups like to have the occasional toy too.

[th'FOOL]

Misleading?

I recently decided I wanted a Mac.  I looked into it and maybe I was misled by Apple's website but I sure couldn't find a new Mac laptop for less than $999.

It's easy enough to find a Windows laptop for under $499.

Or compare Apples to Dells.

But I guess that's a little misleading as they're not identical hardware - the Dell has more RAM, twice the hard drive space and a DVD-RW drive.  For $300 less

I wound up buying a used Mac on on eBay.

Honestly, in my opinion, you get what you pay for. When you factor in the quality of the components and the actually usable software, I feel that Macs are worth every penny.

I should also note that in addition to my macbook pro I still have my old powerbook (nearly 6 years old now) that my wife and kids use. I have never had to reformat or reinstall the OS, an it's perfect for their needs. Every PC I've ever built, the last few iterations being merely network fileservers and IE testing machines, require a reformat and reinstall every year or I have to deal with slowdown and crashes. It is connected to the net, but only for IE testing purposes when I'm working on something. I do nothing else with it other than store files.

[EngineNo9]

Now it sounds like you're the one giving in to common misconceptions.  I don't know anyone that has had to do yearly reformats/reinstalls on a PC since Windows 2000 or XP.   

And what software is not "actually usable" on a PC? 

[th'FOOL]

Now it sounds like you're the one giving in to common misconceptions.  I don't know anyone that has had to do yearly reformats/reinstalls on a PC since Windows 2000 or XP.   

And what software is not "actually usable" on a PC? 

That's because I am using XP. I have Vista on my HP laptop at work and it'll BSD if I even look at it funny, so no thank you to Vista. I'll consider Windows 7 when it is released.

And by not actually usable, I mean all of the demo and shovelware crap that comes with any pre-assembled machine you purchase from Dell or HP or the like. You buy a new mac and you get ilife preinstalled- a whole suite of useful programs- full versions, and for 50 bucks more can get the equivalent of MS office (iwork).

[Chaz]

Yes, you get the iLife stuff (which may or may not be useful to the individual user), and you definitely pay more for the system itself.  If I buy a PC that's equivalent hardware-wise to a Mac, pay $300 less for it (hypothetically), and buy the equivalent software that I need for $100 (or download free altnernatives), the "free" Mac software has now cost me $200.  Just because it's included doesn't make it free.

Also, when we got my GF's Mac, there was a problem with the iLife software where two of the programs simply wouldn't work, locking up the computer.  She called the Mac tech support, and it turns out that the software was so new that they hadn't actually taught their support people how to support it.  After much searching, the guy eventually figured out that it was a known issue and there would be a fix at some point.

Incidentally, my GF's Mac spends most of its time running Win7.  She switches to the Mac side to add/remove songs to her iphone, because she hasn't moved her mp3s over to the PC side.

[Rumpy]

I'm afraid that I'm somewhat limited by my own knowledge-base and abilities to "learn new tricks" - but, wtf? There is no "backspace" key on an Apple laptop? Was it that important for them to separate themselves from MS, that one of the most common keystrokes was left in the dust?   

Is this still true?  I remember being in shock when trying to use my wife's IMac and not seeing a backspace key, what a pain in the rear.  Has the Mac finally discovered right-clicking?

As far as right clicking goes, on a Macbook, there is a very elegant multitouch system that acts as a right click.  I much prefer this to traditional PC trackpads - it's fantastic.  Similar to the keyboard, if you plug in any mouse, right click works as expected.

One of the things I was amazed when I first got a MacBook was the multitouch trackpad. Man, those things are slick. One finger moves the pointer, two finger scrolls a page. It became second nature to me and I find it really natural.

[Hamsterball_Z]

Honestly, in my opinion, you get what you pay for. When you factor in the quality of the components and the actually usable software, I feel that Macs are worth every penny.

Now that Apple has switched from PowerPC to Intel chips there really isn't anything in a Mac that isn't an off the shelf PC component.  You can even run OSX on PC hardware.  Anyone want to build a Hackintosh?  The only thing unique to a Mac is that fruity logo.   

[gellar]

Honestly, in my opinion, you get what you pay for. When you factor in the quality of the components and the actually usable software, I feel that Macs are worth every penny.

Now that Apple has switched from PowerPC to Intel chips there really isn't anything in a Mac that isn't an off the shelf PC component.  You can even run OSX on PC hardware.  Anyone want to build a Hackintosh?  The only thing unique to a Mac is that fruity logo.   

While correct in theory, Macbooko's typically come with 'better' components than their Dell counterparts.  Two laptops otherwise similar 320GB Hard Drives, 4GB of memory, keyboards, trackpads, form factor, etc... can be entirely different in quality when all's said and done.  Not to mention the Apple LCDs themselves are amongst the nicest you can get on any laptop.

Bottom line is - if you're looking for the lowest cost per spec, bar none, then Apple is a terrible choice.  If you're looking at things other than just $$, then Apple should be considered.

gellar

[gellar]

I'm afraid that I'm somewhat limited by my own knowledge-base and abilities to "learn new tricks" - but, wtf? There is no "backspace" key on an Apple laptop? Was it that important for them to separate themselves from MS, that one of the most common keystrokes was left in the dust?   

Is this still true?  I remember being in shock when trying to use my wife's IMac and not seeing a backspace key, what a pain in the rear.  Has the Mac finally discovered right-clicking?

As far as right clicking goes, on a Macbook, there is a very elegant multitouch system that acts as a right click.  I much prefer this to traditional PC trackpads - it's fantastic.  Similar to the keyboard, if you plug in any mouse, right click works as expected.

One of the things I was amazed when I first got a MacBook was the multitouch trackpad. Man, those things are slick. One finger moves the pointer, two finger scrolls a page. It became second nature to me and I find it really natural.

You know... it tracks 3 and 4 fingers now

gellar

[rittchard]

Honestly, in my opinion, you get what you pay for. When you factor in the quality of the components and the actually usable software, I feel that Macs are worth every penny.

Now that Apple has switched from PowerPC to Intel chips there really isn't anything in a Mac that isn't an off the shelf PC component.  You can even run OSX on PC hardware.  Anyone want to build a Hackintosh?  The only thing unique to a Mac is that fruity logo.   

I think the Macbook Air is still one of Apple's finest hardware achievements, and definitely not a PC off the shelf build.  It's all around the most enjoyable laptop experience I've ever had, from the feel of the keyboard, to the eery weightlessness (yet sturdy) feel of the build, to the gorgeous screen and the backlit keyboard and the multi-touch touchpad, it's just a joy to use.  My only complaints would be on heat (rarely) and battery life (no surprise given the weight).  I've owned about 10 different laptops (all PCs til now) and none of them have gotten the use this one has.

- - -

Also, I think I mentioned this on another thread, but in terms of bang for the buck.  I recently bought a new iMac after getting great use from my older one the past 2+ years.  The "old" one, after spending $20 on RAM, re-installing the OS, and wiping the screen clean, literally looked and felt like a brand new unit as I put it back in the original box.  I gave it to my niece as a junior high graduation present and sitting in her room, again it seemed as good as new.  Point being I can't imagine doing anything like that with any of my PC hardware over 2 years old, since most of it has died or been junked.