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Author Topic: [P]Global Test  (Read 1145 times)
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Eco-Logic
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« on: October 25, 2004, 03:22:14 PM »

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This signature is intentional, ie not a mistake.  If you thing Rick Perry should be forced to resign for this crap, you're part of the problem with our country.  Give me a freaking break.
Captain Caveman
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2004, 03:46:27 PM »

I'm sick of this crap. The Bush administration is outright lying when they talk about Kerry's "Global Test" comment and they know it.

Here is what Kerry said:
Quote
No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America. But if and when you do it, Jim, you've got to do in a way that passes the test—that passes the global test—where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing, and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.


Wow, imagine that: if we go to war, we should be able to demonstrate that it's for legitimate reasons! What a concept!

And here is how Bush has distorted it to conform to his bravado image:

Quote
He said that America has to pass a global test before we can use American troops to defend ourselves. That's what he said. Think about this. Sen. Kerry's approach to foreign policy would give foreign governments veto power over our national security decisions. I have a different view. When our country is in danger, the president's job is not to take an international poll. The president's job is to defend America. I'll continue to work every day with our friends and allies for the sake of freedom and peace. But our national security decisions will be made in the Oval Office, not in foreign capitals.


Ugh.

/rant off
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zinckiwi
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2004, 05:34:32 PM »

Curious that as long as you call something "defending", that makes it okay, even if it actually means "invading (a country on the other side of the world that poses no imminent threat.)"
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scubabbl
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2004, 09:21:49 PM »

So is it invafending or defading?
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slackerjoe
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2004, 03:02:36 AM »

Kerry's quote reads to me like he wouldn't take action (even to defend) unless it passed a global test.

Bush's statement exaggerates it somewhat, but Kerry's statement is rather damning.
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Falator
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2004, 05:37:11 AM »

Quote from: "slackerjoe"
Kerry's quote reads to me like he wouldn't take action (even to defend) unless it passed a global test.

Bush's statement exaggerates it somewhat, but Kerry's statement is rather damning.

It’s not damning at all. Kerry believes that if we attack another country, we should be able to show the rest of the world that we did it for a reason and not just to "expand our empire." It’s about international relations and not just rampaging through another country at a whim. A lot of the world already thinks we (the United States) are imperialistic; we don't need Bush out their giving them ammunition.
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slackerjoe
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2004, 07:31:44 AM »

Quote from: "Falator"
Quote from: "slackerjoe"
Kerry's quote reads to me like he wouldn't take action (even to defend) unless it passed a global test.

Bush's statement exaggerates it somewhat, but Kerry's statement is rather damning.

It’s not damning at all. Kerry believes that if we attack another country, we should be able to show the rest of the world that we did it for a reason and not just to "expand our empire." It’s about international relations and not just rampaging through another country at a whim. A lot of the world already thinks we (the United States) are imperialistic; we don't need Bush out their giving them ammunition.


If you believe that the United States should have to prove its case to the rest of the world before taking military action, then I couldn't disagree more.

Of course the U.S. takes military action "for a reason" and not "on a whim". If you honestly think that U.S. takes military action on a whim or to "expand our empire", then you live in a much different place than I do.

By the way, please explain the boundaries of the United States empire. I'm having trouble finding them on a map. slywink

Look, I agree that a lot of world certainly thinks we (the U.S.) are imperialistic. A lot of the world is also filled with dictators, thugs, Euro-leftists, communists, and islamo-fascists. I just dont really hold their opinions in high regard. In fact, anything the U.S. does that enrages these types of countries is probably a good thing. (Hence, the joy I will get when George Bush is re-elected and a large portion of the world -- and U.S. -- flies into a spittle-inducing rage.)
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Falator
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2004, 01:53:50 PM »

Quote from: "slackerjoe"
Quote from: "Falator"
Quote from: "slackerjoe"
Kerry's quote reads to me like he wouldn't take action (even to defend) unless it passed a global test.

Bush's statement exaggerates it somewhat, but Kerry's statement is rather damning.

It’s not damning at all. Kerry believes that if we attack another country, we should be able to show the rest of the world that we did it for a reason and not just to "expand our empire." It’s about international relations and not just rampaging through another country at a whim. A lot of the world already thinks we (the United States) are imperialistic; we don't need Bush out their giving them ammunition.


If you believe that the United States should have to prove its case to the rest of the world before taking military action, then I couldn't disagree more.

Of course the U.S. takes military action "for a reason" and not "on a whim". If you honestly think that U.S. takes military action on a whim or to "expand our empire", then you live in a much different place than I do.

By the way, please explain the boundaries of the United States empire. I'm having trouble finding them on a map. slywink

Look, I agree that a lot of world certainly thinks we (the U.S.) are imperialistic. A lot of the world is also filled with dictators, thugs, Euro-leftists, communists, and islamo-fascists. I just dont really hold their opinions in high regard. In fact, anything the U.S. does that enrages these types of countries is probably a good thing. (Hence, the joy I will get when George Bush is re-elected and a large portion of the world -- and U.S. -- flies into a spittle-inducing rage.)

Did you even read my post? I agree with you, mostly. If the U.S. military takes action "for a reason," then it can later tell the world that hey, we invaded so and so because they said that diablo 2 was the best rpg ever (a great reason to attack anyone heh).

Did you notice that i quoted the "expand our empire?" Much of the world (even the people of some of our allies) believes that we are trying to do that and that we are imperialistic. I guess they are all dictators, thugs, Euro-leftists, communists, and islamo-fascists though? They can't be any worse than the Religious Right :lol:

There is a difference between giving other countries control of your military and being able to justify your actions to the rest of the world.
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