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Author Topic: Anime vs. CGI Animation  (Read 10796 times)
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Markstrink
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« on: August 27, 2013, 03:35:28 PM »

So, while sitting here and watching Despicable Me for I don't know how many times, I was thinking.

While American ''cartoon" animation really is still, for the most part, behind most "Japanese animation", it seems that we have gone a different direction. We have wonderful companies doing great computer work. Yet the Asian contrives have continued to out pace us in the world of making "drawn" movies.

Or am I wrong and there are Asian countries putting out Pixar quality stuff and I just haven't seen it?

If they have not decided to follow the trend with CGI, why not? Tradition?

Dot get me wrong, I really love both. I had a great appreciation for someone's ability to draw and animate a movie. I remember sitting and watching Akira, over and over, amazed at the animation. I am sure someone has to still search through lines and lines of code to make sure a movie works but nothing compared to what it was.

I guess I think back to the original Tron. Knowing that it wasn't drawn, even though people told me it was, and also knowing that those guys had to search through "hallways" of code for one item to make it work.

So I guess in short, what I was thinking is; has the "anime" been able to keep up with the "CGI"? I mean I know the stories for most of the CGI are "kid" orientated and anime, for the mos part has been "adult" orientated. So is there a middle ground? Is there something out there, like Akira was for us, that is ground breaking?
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Lordnine
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 04:42:56 PM »

I know several people in the industry, even one who works at an offshoot of Disney, and they all outsource the bulk of their hand drawn animation to eastern countries.  I think it has a lot to do with division of labor and costs to produce.  Hand drawn animation is time consuming to produce and so we sell it off to countries willing to work for much less per hour.

CGI based animation has a very high cost entry point to begin a project (and a fair amount of technical skill) but once models and sets have been built they can be reused by animators with very little input from the original modelers.  This also means that sequels and TV series can be produced relatively fast and cheap.

With hand drawn animation all that matters is time and skill, in a lot of ways this results in a more thought out design process.  When adding an extra minute of animation can add an extra week (or more) to your expenses you need to make sure that it was worth it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 04:45:33 PM by Lordnine » Logged
TiLT
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 04:46:27 PM »

I have never really been able to stand Anime, and a big reason for that is that it's been at a standstill for decades. There is a very strong fear of standing out too much in Japanese culture, and it really shows in their art style. While it can be technically impressive, it's hard to tell one artist from another since they all seem to be copying each other. If you've seen one Anime character, you've seen them all.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 05:31:16 PM »

No offense, Tilt, but that's much more dismissive that I've ever seen you, I believe.

Compare Lupin III to Spirited Away to Trigun.

There's anime for kids, teens, adults; sci-fi, fantasy, romance, comedy, etc.  I'm not qualified to be a guide, but there's a lot more to anime and a lot of excellent stories being told.  Anime is just a different way of telling the story.
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 07:22:55 PM »

I do like what Pixar does,but i will always have a lover for hand drawn cartoons

i mean,damn it,i want Disney films to go back to their 'rough sketch' type animation from the 60s-80s where you could see the pencil marks and everything,i loved that era in Disney cartoons

101 Dalmatians is a great example





and a few others in the tags
Spoiler for Hiden:
The Aristocats


The Rescuers


Robin Hood


So yeah Anime does win it for me,i have always been impressed with their drawings

Patlabor 1 and 2 need mentioning

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CeeKay
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 07:23:14 PM »

I liked Lupin.
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 07:26:13 PM »

FWIW though i know that there is Pixar style animation and Computer animation..the computer animation can be used a lot in Anime stuff,see The Animatrix..but also other things,like landscapes or something huge on screen(not looking like Computer animation,more like what Beauty and the Beast did for the ballroom scene)






and now we head into Square Enix Final Fantasy films....do you want to continue? Tongue
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:27:56 PM by metallicorphan » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 07:26:35 PM »

and yes, Disney needs to go back to the classics.
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 07:31:52 PM »

A similar argument for me could be made for the special effects between

Star Wars Original Trilogy

Vs

Star Wars Prequel Trilogy

While the FX look good in the prequel trilogy,i am more impressed with the FX in the original trilogy
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 07:32:07 PM »

ah, Final Fantasy, so good looking yet so dull.
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metallicorphan
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 07:33:49 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on August 27, 2013, 07:32:07 PM

ah, Final Fantasy, so good looking yet so dull.

I liked Advent Children...

Spirits Within...not so much
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 07:33:54 PM »

Quote from: metallicorphan on August 27, 2013, 07:31:52 PM

A similar argument for me could be made for the special effects between

Star Wars Original Trilogy

Vs

Star Wars Prequel Trilogy

While the FX look good in the prequel trilogy,i am more impressed with the FX in the original trilogy

yep, can't beat original X-Wings or the opening ship chase.
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TiLT
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 08:01:01 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on August 27, 2013, 05:31:16 PM

No offense, Tilt, but that's much more dismissive that I've ever seen you, I believe.

Compare Lupin III to Spirited Away to Trigun.

I can't say I'm particularly familiar with any of those (Spirited Away is the only one I'm aware of). The first one looks like a mix between French and Japanese drawing styles, so I guess that's fresh enough. The second has a pretty unique look, so that one falls outside of the stuff I was referring to. The last one looks pretty generic to me.

When I'm talking about Anime, I'm referring to more than just the art style. I'm also referring to the animations and the way character emotions are conveyed to the viewer. One of the first images from the Trigun search you linked to is a perfect example of this:



This is a typical fallback expression in Anime, and you won't normally see it used outside of that genre. The eyebrows, the smile, the hand behind the head, the hair, the entire premise for that picture... they are all extremely generic, something the artist did because "everyone else does it". Yes, there will always be exceptions, but that doesn't make me wrong.

On the other hand, just because I have my low opinion about Anime doesn't mean it's actually bad. A lot of people enjoy it, and that's fine. I'm saying that I find Anime utterly generic and predictable in almost every case, to the point where I simply can't stand it and instead steer away. Of course, this isn't helped by my general distaste for typical Japanese storytelling, which all too often falls into the same kinds of traps as the animation, but that's a different discussion. smile

Having said that, I do enjoy Akira (both the books and the movie), maybe because it felt fresh when it was released.
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Markstrink
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 08:40:49 PM »

I am a bye fan of masasaki and maybe that's what really made me think. The story behind 'spirited away', hos moving castle, princess mononke, and the others is really so beyond what we are doing here. It captures and adult and still is able to captivate and capture a child. Kaya (4.5) often asks very poignant questions about why something is happening and is still able later to put them together even if she may no understand the full gravity.

While I think that most of OUR movies hear towards kids just laughing and adults picking up the "adult humour".
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 08:53:38 PM »

I'd love to sit behind you, tilt, as you went through the TV Tropes site and discovered all the generic, tired methods used by all media, be it comics, tv, films, etc, in terms of archetypes, plot devices, etc.

To each their own.  You're missing out on some good stories, but like everything else, without a way to filter out the derivative dreck, it's kind of a non-starter.  I see where you're coming from.
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 06:42:24 AM »

much of modern anime does make heavy use CGI, if just for backgrounds and non-human objects. i have also seen more than a few where characters were drawn on computer (in a 2D style). coloring is probably entirely computer-aided.
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 08:39:56 AM »

I'm a big fan of both types. Hayao Miyazaki's latest movie is gorgeous. I just watched a short documentary on him the other night the man is a non-apologetic chain smoker while he works! I feel sorry for the rest of his staff.
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 09:11:36 AM »

Both have their places.

However, CGI is not inherently worse than older methods. In fact, it can be in many ways better, and capable of so much more with less cost. The problem isn't the technology and techniques, but rather the lack of vision, or poor implementation.

CGI is used so much these days for very subtle and interesting effects that help both further the story, establish character, but also to make filming a show cheaper. A great example is how much digital sets, as well as backdrop replacement and extension is used today, pretty much every show uses it, even the most realistic dramas, and no one knows it's there.

As for animation, it all depends on the vision and art design. There's plenty of bad 2D animation, probably more than bad 3D animation in all of history, but that's leveling out quickly.
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