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Author Topic: [movie] Prometheus (previously Alien the Prequel)  (Read 20331 times)
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McNutt
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« Reply #360 on: June 22, 2012, 02:53:33 PM »

Yes, that aggravated me too.  They do all of this little stuff to make you think you're looking at the ship/pilot from Alien, but then it changes and you realized you were tricked.  Unfortunately it wasn't a fun trick. 
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« Reply #361 on: June 22, 2012, 03:01:24 PM »

It's like in IJ and the Crystal Skull where they explicitly state that they're not aliens, they're from another dimension.  Which makes no narrative difference apart from irritating the audience who five minutes after leaving the theater are calling them aliens anyway.
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« Reply #362 on: June 24, 2012, 04:55:39 AM »

Things I learned from Prometheus:

Spoiler for Hiden:
1. If you're going to be a bro-scientist (acting on impulse without all the facts, drinking when things don't go your way) you will be a shitty one and your only hope is to tie your research to someone who is actually more research oriented than you.

2. If you're going to ask people to go on a long cryosleep voyage to do some research, run psych tests on them to filter out the obvious failures. Like:
 a. a biologist who freaks out over dead bodies. Seriously?
 b. a geologist who gets the creeps from being in caves.
 c. scientists who listen to the bro-scientist and take their freekin helmets off before checking for alien airborne pathogens. Something you'd think the biologist would be worried about more than the dead body.
 d. scientists who can't be bothered to check their map (i.e. what the sensor probes mapped out) to find their way back out. Like subjects a. and b. who should have been filtered out from the psych tests

3. Bring nukes. Especially if you're secretly hoping that the scientists are all wrong but wondering what the hell can go wrong if they are right.

Seriously though my main complaint was with bro-scientist. Simply because he was just not believable. I could be biased, but then again I've never ever met a bro-scientist. Then again, all the scientists I've met were brilliant and competent in their field smile.
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« Reply #363 on: June 24, 2012, 03:05:06 PM »

They blew their profiling budget on finding a captain - the only black man in the universe who not only has a thing for Stephen Stills but can also play him on the accordian.
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« Reply #364 on: June 24, 2012, 03:14:15 PM »

Quote from: McNutt on June 22, 2012, 02:53:33 PM

Yes, that aggravated me too.  They do all of this little stuff to make you think you're looking at the ship/pilot from Alien, but then it changes and you realized you were tricked.  Unfortunately it wasn't a fun trick. 

You're only tricked if you aren't paying attention to the fact that the movie clearly spells out that they're going to LV-233 in the first act.  It's clear, from that moment on, that it's not the same planet, and no trickery is in place.
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« Reply #365 on: June 24, 2012, 03:55:31 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on June 24, 2012, 03:14:15 PM

Quote from: McNutt on June 22, 2012, 02:53:33 PM

Yes, that aggravated me too.  They do all of this little stuff to make you think you're looking at the ship/pilot from Alien, but then it changes and you realized you were tricked.  Unfortunately it wasn't a fun trick. 

You're only tricked if you aren't paying attention to the fact that the movie clearly spells out that they're going to LV-233 in the first act.  It's clear, from that moment on, that it's not the same planet, and no trickery is in place.

Trick may not be the right word.  All imagery and atmosphere lead you to think it's the same planet.  Most people would not be bothered to remember that LV-233 is not LV-426. 

And how do we know that LV-426 didn't explode six months later?  The shock could shift the orbit of that planet and everything would be laid waste. 

The crew of the Notromo just didn't have anyone to scream at them, "THIS is LV-233!!"  That kind of chart confusion happens all the time in space.  You, of all people, should understand that.
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« Reply #366 on: June 24, 2012, 03:58:44 PM »

If you've seen the old movies, you know this isnt the same planet, due to the name. If you havent seen it, it doesnt matter.

Honestly, a lot of the complaints people have about the movie stems from the fact that people didn't pay attention. Sure, there are tons of dumb stuff, but hey, that can be said of pretty much every movie if you want to scrutinize it.
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« Reply #367 on: June 24, 2012, 04:08:31 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 24, 2012, 03:55:31 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on June 24, 2012, 03:14:15 PM

Quote from: McNutt on June 22, 2012, 02:53:33 PM

Yes, that aggravated me too.  They do all of this little stuff to make you think you're looking at the ship/pilot from Alien, but then it changes and you realized you were tricked.  Unfortunately it wasn't a fun trick. 

You're only tricked if you aren't paying attention to the fact that the movie clearly spells out that they're going to LV-233 in the first act.  It's clear, from that moment on, that it's not the same planet, and no trickery is in place.

Trick may not be the right word.  All imagery and atmosphere lead you to think it's the same planet.  Most people would not be bothered to remember that LV-233 is not LV-426. 

And how do we know that LV-426 didn't explode six months later?  The shock could shift the orbit of that planet and everything would be laid waste. 

The crew of the Notromo just didn't have anyone to scream at them, "THIS is LV-233!!"  That kind of chart confusion happens all the time in space.  You, of all people, should understand that.

Wow.  The "logic" in this post is daft, and trying to use Star Trek 2 to make a point here is hilariously awful.
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« Reply #368 on: June 24, 2012, 06:16:06 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on June 24, 2012, 04:08:31 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 24, 2012, 03:55:31 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on June 24, 2012, 03:14:15 PM

Quote from: McNutt on June 22, 2012, 02:53:33 PM

Yes, that aggravated me too.  They do all of this little stuff to make you think you're looking at the ship/pilot from Alien, but then it changes and you realized you were tricked.  Unfortunately it wasn't a fun trick. 

You're only tricked if you aren't paying attention to the fact that the movie clearly spells out that they're going to LV-233 in the first act.  It's clear, from that moment on, that it's not the same planet, and no trickery is in place.

Trick may not be the right word.  All imagery and atmosphere lead you to think it's the same planet.  Most people would not be bothered to remember that LV-233 is not LV-426. 

And how do we know that LV-426 didn't explode six months later?  The shock could shift the orbit of that planet and everything would be laid waste. 

The crew of the Notromo just didn't have anyone to scream at them, "THIS is LV-233!!"  That kind of chart confusion happens all the time in space.  You, of all people, should understand that.

Wow.  The "logic" in this post is daft, and trying to use Star Trek 2 to make a point here is hilariously awful.

Well, that part wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2012, 03:58:44 PM

If you've seen the old movies, you know this isnt the same planet, due to the name. If you havent seen it, it doesnt matter.


Bullshit.  Go outside right now.  Find 20 people who have seen Alien (which shouldn't be hard).  Ask them the name of the planet they were on.  Unless you stumbled on a group of Alien die-hards, there's no way they'll remember the name (most probably wouldn't remember the name of the Nostromo).

If they've seen Prometheus, ask them if it seemed like the same planet.  The images are specifically meant to evoke the images from the first film.  For many people, those images are dormant and are purposefully being recalled by the Scott and Co. 
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Razgon
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« Reply #369 on: June 24, 2012, 06:33:09 PM »

Bullshit yourself - I was in there with 3 friends. All of them got the fact that it wasnt the same planet and two of them are really definitely not gamer geeks.

Hell, people at work I talked to all knew this. I think it was just you.

edit: Btw - I'm responding to the tone you seem to bringing to the thread which is kinda angry, and i don't understand why. Its just a movie.
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« Reply #370 on: June 24, 2012, 07:04:53 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2012, 06:33:09 PM

Bullshit yourself - I was in there with 3 friends. All of them got the fact that it wasnt the same planet and two of them are really definitely not gamer geeks.

Hell, people at work I talked to all knew this. I think it was just you.

edit: Btw - I'm responding to the tone you seem to bringing to the thread which is kinda angry, and i don't understand why. Its just a movie.

My tone only shifted that way in response.

I am frustrated by this film, though.

While I find it hard to believe that most people would not see the visual similarities thrown at them and still say, "Well, we know it's not the same planet...", I don't know that it makes a difference.  The fact is that countless similarities are thrown at you, clearly meant to evoke the original film, but a little different.  And my question remains: Why?  What is the point of that, other than to be confounding?

Frankly, I'm not certain that the first movie is meant to actually be connected to this one at all in any way except psychically.  Again, the whole "Alien DNA" comment.  It almost seems like it's intended to be one of those deals where they take elements from a known property and mix them together to make something new.  Like any of the modernized Sherlocks, for example (the BBC one or the one coming out on CBS).

The tune may change, now that the buzz is trending negative, and they may try to force a narrative connection if future movies are allowed to be made.  But I'm not sure it was the intention.
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« Reply #371 on: June 24, 2012, 08:11:52 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2012, 03:58:44 PM

If you've seen the old movies, you know this isnt the same planet, due to the name.

I have seen the old movies. In fact, I watched Alien again less than a week before seeing Prometheus. But I still didn't realize it wasn't the same planet until I read that online. Seriously, do you think most people who casually watch these movies will remember that the planet name that briefly popped up in Alien was LV-426 and not LV-233? As far as I know, that's the only way to realize that this isn't the same planet, right?
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« Reply #372 on: June 24, 2012, 09:29:14 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on June 24, 2012, 08:11:52 PM

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2012, 03:58:44 PM

If you've seen the old movies, you know this isnt the same planet, due to the name.

I have seen the old movies. In fact, I watched Alien again less than a week before seeing Prometheus. But I still didn't realize it wasn't the same planet until I read that online. Seriously, do you think most people who casually watch these movies will remember that the planet name that briefly popped up in Alien was LV-426 and not LV-233? As far as I know, that's the only way to realize that this isn't the same planet, right?

I could be wrong, but wasn't the planet in the Alien movie all dark and dreary? Like, all the time? While the one in this movie actually has sunshine and sparkles? Well, maybe not sparkles but there is a definite day night cycle, and in the daytime it doesn't look quite so scary (aside from the storms).
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« Reply #373 on: June 24, 2012, 10:20:49 PM »

I am also in the camp that didn't think it was the same at all.  Didn't feel 'tricked' at all.  I thought it looked completely different.
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« Reply #374 on: June 24, 2012, 10:38:38 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on June 24, 2012, 08:11:52 PM

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2012, 03:58:44 PM

If you've seen the old movies, you know this isnt the same planet, due to the name.

I have seen the old movies. In fact, I watched Alien again less than a week before seeing Prometheus. But I still didn't realize it wasn't the same planet until I read that online. Seriously, do you think most people who casually watch these movies will remember that the planet name that briefly popped up in Alien was LV-426 and not LV-233? As far as I know, that's the only way to realize that this isn't the same planet, right?

That the planet was LV-426 in Alien was hammered home pretty hard in Aliens, too.
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« Reply #375 on: June 24, 2012, 10:44:01 PM »

The planets certainly looked different, but from what I remember they land on the planet in Alien during a storm and most all the time on the planet is spent in the ship. So you really never get a great look at it.
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« Reply #376 on: June 24, 2012, 10:57:50 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on June 24, 2012, 10:44:01 PM

The planets certainly looked different, but from what I remember they land on the planet in Alien during a storm and most all the time on the planet is spent in the ship. So you really never get a great look at it.

but the entire movie of Aliens takes place there (well, a large majority, including lots of outside shots and even more in the director's cut)
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« Reply #377 on: June 25, 2012, 04:12:38 AM »

Unfortunately, I haven't seen Aliens in at least 6 years and don't remember the details enough to be able to compare the two settings. And my guess is that the average Prometheus movie goer hasn't seen Aliens very recently either.
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« Reply #378 on: June 25, 2012, 05:50:54 AM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on June 25, 2012, 04:12:38 AM

Unfortunately, I haven't seen Aliens in at least 6 years and don't remember the details enough to be able to compare the two settings. And my guess is that the average Prometheus movie goer hasn't seen Aliens very recently either.

If you don't remember the setting,and havent seen the movie in 6 years,  why would you be upset that you don't instantly get everything in the prequel? It IS a prequel, so some knowledge of the previous movies is expected. Every other sequel or prequel out there more or less expects you to know something about the setting. The most famous example would be Lord of the Rings - But even action movies like Jason Bourne leaves a lot behind if you havent seen the previous ones and just watch the 3rd one.

I really think people are nitpicking this movie to death for some obscure reason, and I don't understand it.
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« Reply #379 on: June 25, 2012, 06:40:26 AM »

You're all missing the point! Prometheus makes it very, very clear that this isn't the same planet by having the events differ from what we see in Alien in ways that have been pointed out numerous times in this thread already, and by immediately afterwards letting us know that there were

Spoiler for Hiden:
numerous other ships.

If anyone can't add up 1 and 1 and end up with 2 after all that, they really aren't trying. The ONLY reason people get confused is because they walk into the movie expecting this to be the same planet. If they didn't, they'd never even consider the possibility of the two planets being the same.
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« Reply #380 on: June 25, 2012, 11:49:18 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 25, 2012, 05:50:54 AM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on June 25, 2012, 04:12:38 AM

Unfortunately, I haven't seen Aliens in at least 6 years and don't remember the details enough to be able to compare the two settings. And my guess is that the average Prometheus movie goer hasn't seen Aliens very recently either.

If you don't remember the setting,and havent seen the movie in 6 years,  why would you be upset that you don't instantly get everything in the prequel? It IS a prequel, so some knowledge of the previous movies is expected. 

Odd. I thought the whole argument was that Prometheus wasn't a prequel and the casual fans are dumb to think it was. In fact, Ridley Scott himself said it isn't.

Quote
Sir Ridley Scott has told BBC Radio 5 live that his new film Prometheus is not a prequel to his 1979 hit Alien.

It wasn't a big deal to me that the movie wasn't a direct prequel to Alien. I realized that fact once the space jockey
Quote
died not sitting in his chair.
My point, however, is that the details in the film that indicate that it's not set on the same planet as the original movie are probably too small and obscure for most casual fans. The fact that so many people thought it was a prequel after seeing this movie is pretty good evidence of that fact.
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« Reply #381 on: June 25, 2012, 12:01:15 PM »

So, is the idea that its not a prequel, but what...set in the same universe? But not? I don't understand what that means then, since its *clearly* the same universe (After credit reveal, weyland and lots of other fun stuff)

edit: Then again, if its NOT a prequel, what does it matter how someone died or what planet its on? So confusing, this :-D
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« Reply #382 on: June 25, 2012, 12:35:41 PM »

he has always said that,the thing is people think it is a prequel,as in a direct prequel(as i did/do) if Scott says that it's not then i would opt for Prometheus being a side story or spin off..or just Scott being a twat


As for the planet thing,i went into the Cinema thinking it would set place on LV-426,but it wasn't until i saw the Planet named label as LV-233 on the ships Nav map,that i realised it wasn't

You have to remember,at least for me while growing up me and my mates would ask ourselves cool questions or facts,one of them was LV-426 was not the Alien Homeplanet,because the ship that contained the eggs,crashed on LV-426..so we would ask ourselves where did that ship come from..that was one of the main questions/discussions throughout the latter 80s and 90s

(the other big one being about Alien coming from Man being on 2 legs and Alien coming from Dog being on 4 legs  icon_biggrin )

but then again,me and my mates were massive fans
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« Reply #383 on: June 25, 2012, 12:51:28 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on June 25, 2012, 11:49:18 AM

Odd. I thought the whole argument was that Prometheus wasn't a prequel and the casual fans are dumb to think it was. In fact, Ridley Scott himself said it isn't.

Interesting... in that interview he said that there would need to be two more movies before we got to 'Alien'. If the movie does well enough to warrent them, of course.  icon_wink
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« Reply #384 on: June 25, 2012, 01:16:31 PM »

I know that it is not the same planet.  I knew that at the end of the movie.  I did not know that for most of the movie.  If my big clue is that the planet has a different number on it, I'm a little surprised that it is shocking to you that I don't remember specific planetary numbers from an old horror movie. 

But the fact that I went into this movie thinking it was the same planet has very little to do with why I didn't like the movie.  There were many, many reasons for me not liking this one.  What I hate most of all was the ruined potential of the movie.
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« Reply #385 on: June 25, 2012, 02:06:40 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on June 25, 2012, 04:12:38 AM

Unfortunately, I haven't seen Aliens in at least 6 years and don't remember the details enough to be able to compare the two settings. And my guess is that the average Prometheus movie goer hasn't seen Aliens very recently either.

Details? I think the fact that Prometheus shows the planet being sunlit and looking like New Zealand is different enough from the Alien planet all dark and Hades like to be a big glaring difference.
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« Reply #386 on: June 25, 2012, 02:15:16 PM »

My neighborhood looks quite a bit different at noon than it does at midnight.  The alien planet also had a pretty nasty sandstorm that kept up with the inhospitable theme.  Plus, the visual cues in the trailer (especially the ship hitting the ground at what appeared tho be the angle at which we see it resting in Alien) seem to indicate that what we are going to see is the same ship/planet.  Yes, certain things might dispel this if you know your Alien well enough, but to the casual viewer the similarity seemed intentional. 
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« Reply #387 on: June 25, 2012, 02:31:37 PM »

The friend I saw it with thought it was the same planet.  He's a casual fan but still missed the LV-233/LV-426 difference.

I wonder if there is a copy of the original Prometheus script out there from when it was a more direct prequel before the rewrite to make into the not-quite-a-prequel same universe but different story line thing that we ended up with.
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« Reply #388 on: June 25, 2012, 03:55:08 PM »

I went in knowing that Prometheus featured a different planet from Alien, that it wasn't a direct prequel to Alien but merely set in the same universe, and I still had issues with the film.  Misconceptions or misunderstandings aside, Prometheus is still plagued with numerous problems.

Scott allowed too much Lost into our Alien.
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« Reply #389 on: June 25, 2012, 04:40:35 PM »

Some films I like more after I think about them. 

...Prometheus is not one of them.
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« Reply #390 on: June 25, 2012, 04:45:13 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on June 25, 2012, 03:55:08 PM

I went in knowing that Prometheus featured a different planet from Alien, that it wasn't a direct prequel to Alien but merely set in the same universe, and I still had issues with the film.  Misconceptions or misunderstandings aside, Prometheus is still plagued with numerous problems.

Scott allowed too much Lost into our Alien.

This I can get behind.  There were tons of problems with the film, it just seems to me that people typically are whining about stuff that isn't really a big deal compared to the other grievances they could have.

I left the movie feeling overall just ok.  Didn't feel like a waste of time/money, but it's certainly not something I'll watch again.  Unlike Alien or Aliens where if I'm flipping channels it pretty much gets glued there until the conclusion  ninja
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« Reply #391 on: June 25, 2012, 07:07:47 PM »

Actually, this kind of explains a lot.

Prometheus - Science Training Video
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« Reply #392 on: June 25, 2012, 07:44:05 PM »

As to Avengers attendance - I was waiting for the GF - she hates lineups.

For Prometheus - this will have to wait for video.

I understand hepcat's comment about movies that I like better when I think about them (one of my favorites was the puzzle created by Lynch with Mulholland Drive).

This sounds more like Deep Blue Sea - where one feels slighted by being underestimated by the writing / storytelling.
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« Reply #393 on: June 25, 2012, 07:45:58 PM »

Quote from: TK-421 on June 25, 2012, 07:07:47 PM

Actually, this kind of explains a lot.

Prometheus - Science Training Video

 icon_lol
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« Reply #394 on: June 25, 2012, 10:01:58 PM »

Quote from: Purge on June 25, 2012, 07:44:05 PM

As to Avengers attendance - I was waiting for the GF - she hates lineups.

For Prometheus - this will have to wait for video.

I understand hepcat's comment about movies that I like better when I think about them (one of my favorites was the puzzle created by Lynch with Mulholland Drive).

This sounds more like Deep Blue Sea - where one feels slighted by being underestimated by the writing / storytelling.

It's funny, because I started wondering if this would have a Mullholland Drive effect after reading the article about Space Jesus.  My wife and I hated MD right after seeing it.  Then she went to bed and slept on it while I mulled it over and read a great article.  The next morning we spent a suprisingly long time going over the symbolism and hidden depths of it and came through the other end of the film, essentially.

Still not a fan of Prometheus, though. 

Part of the reason, I think, is that while Mulholland Drive has a clear vision if you're willing to look for it.  Prometheus doesn't really seem to.  And I think one of the biggest, first signs of this is the mixed imagery it puts forward.  It makes it unclear what the movie is trying to say or do.  Part of the reason it comes up again and again, is that it feels like there is a nut to be cracked, if we could just get into it.  However, I'm fairly certain that there isn't really.
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That's like blaming owls because I suck at making analogies.
hepcat
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« Reply #395 on: June 26, 2012, 06:25:26 PM »

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Warning:  You will see my penis. -Brian

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« Reply #396 on: June 29, 2012, 01:26:10 PM »

Via Cracked.com

A Series of Emails from Prometheus' New Tech Guy
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Open the blast doors!  Open the blast doors!
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« Reply #397 on: July 06, 2012, 11:27:56 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on June 17, 2012, 04:06:55 AM

If the box office really turns out disappointing, I suspect the studio will be less inclined to back a sequel unless the budget's lower.

No way near being close to dissapointing at the box office. As of July 5th it's grossed  almost $290 million worldwide  - intial production budget was $130 million. With it more than doubling it's costs in 1 month, I'd say the studios would be more than happy to have Scott make another. slywink
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Biyobi
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« Reply #398 on: July 07, 2012, 09:18:06 PM »

Quote from: kronovan on July 06, 2012, 11:27:56 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on June 17, 2012, 04:06:55 AM

If the box office really turns out disappointing, I suspect the studio will be less inclined to back a sequel unless the budget's lower.

No way near being close to dissapointing at the box office. As of July 5th it's grossed  almost $290 million worldwide  - intial production budget was $130 million. With it more than doubling it's costs in 1 month, I'd say the studios would be more than happy to have Scott make another. slywink

Production is only part of the equation. I'm curious what they spent on marketing it around the world.
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kronovan
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« Reply #399 on: July 09, 2012, 06:54:02 PM »

Quote from: Biyobi on July 07, 2012, 09:18:06 PM

Quote from: kronovan on July 06, 2012, 11:27:56 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on June 17, 2012, 04:06:55 AM

If the box office really turns out disappointing, I suspect the studio will be less inclined to back a sequel unless the budget's lower.

No way near being close to dissapointing at the box office. As of July 5th it's grossed  almost $290 million worldwide  - intial production budget was $130 million. With it more than doubling it's costs in 1 month, I'd say the studios would be more than happy to have Scott make another. slywink

Production is only part of the equation. I'm curious what they spent on marketing it around the world.

I'm sure they spent heaps on marketing, but not enough to offset a profit like that.
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