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Author Topic: A History of Violence! Serenity! Both are out! [Spoilers!]  (Read 2773 times)
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Dafones
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« on: September 28, 2005, 06:02:26 AM »

Hey, cool. This Friday, September 30, Serenity and A History of Violence both find their wide theatrical releases, and I want to see them both. It's been a long while since I've cared about a movie in the  theatres, let alone two in the same weekend. Neato. I just wonder if I'll be able to drag any friends into Serenity...
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Turtle
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2005, 06:30:40 AM »

Just loan them the DVDs.
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Calvin
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 07:18:53 AM »

Serenity for the win!
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 11:40:16 AM »

I'm right there with ya!  Also gotta get Corpse Bride in there eventually....
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Dafones
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 02:51:37 PM »

Quote from: "Turtle"
Just loan them the DVDs.


You know, it's funny. I went over to a good buddies house last summer with the DVDs and we watched a few eps. I think he enjoyed them more than he was willing to admit.
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 04:19:17 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
Quote from: "Turtle"
Just loan them the DVDs.


You know, it's funny. I went over to a good buddies house last summer with the DVDs and we watched a few eps. I think he enjoyed them more than he was willing to admit.


I'm embarrased to admit that a friend loaned me the DVD's and they sat in my desk drawer for ages.  We don't watch TV really, so I just wasn't that interested.  Then I saw the first movie trailer (back in, what, May or so?)  Instantly became interested, watched the whole series over the next week and became addicted.

We might actually blow out of work early on Friday to see it. smile
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 04:30:47 PM »

I'm undecided on whether I want to see Serenity again this weekend to see whether I liked it more than I did back in June. Now that I really think about it, I'll pass. Yes, I'm about the only person on the interweb who didn't like Serenity. Yes, after this weekend I'll take your questions as to why and answer with specifics, but not until people have seen it. biggrin

History of Violence I'm way more interested in but I've Samurai Jack season 1 courtesy of NetFlix to burn through, and that has priority (if only because I wanted to see that long before I became aware of History of Violence). smile
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2005, 09:51:44 PM »

Well, my hyperbolic friend, you aren't the only one uncertain about seeing Serenity again.   Though I am curious to see it again and see if my opinion changes, there's just other stuff out that'll take priority.  A History of Violence being the prime candidate, with The Corpse Bride coming in second.

Whedon made a post on the message boards today talking about the movie, and what a battle it'll be for the film to get recognition.  My favorite part was this:

Quote from: "Joss Whedon"
Instead of the Alliance we'll be fighting viewer apathy, fear of something new, the urge to wait for DVD, and Jessica Alba in a bikini. (Although I have it on good authority that she spends 90% of the film in a huge wooly parka. Make sure that gets out.)


 biggrin
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Calvin
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2005, 09:59:27 PM »

For some really strange reason I think Serenity is going to just shock eveyrone and grab the top of the charts. But I think its not going to be a huge number either. Now Im just talking of course, but I will be curious!
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RightBastard
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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2005, 12:49:29 AM »

Serenity for me on Sunday, followed by MirrorMask the weekend after.  God I hate going to the movies, but for these two, I'll make an exception.
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Dafones
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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2005, 12:57:46 AM »

WBS, CS, regardless of the fact that you both have mixed reactions to Serenity, do either of you think that the movie would be hard to take in for an individual who hasn't watched the show?
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Calvin
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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2005, 01:12:18 AM »

Serenity hopefully with Kathod on Friday for me. Maybe Proof Sunday matinee.
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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2005, 03:08:29 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
WBS, CS, regardless of the fact that you both have mixed reactions to Serenity, do either of you think that the movie would be hard to take in for an individual who hasn't watched the show?


I could see it both ways, actually. The film does a decent set-up at the beginning in setting the stage and explaining why things are the way they are in the Firefly universe, complete with a quicky run-down of the two sides in the civil war. Some might consider the next part a spoiler, so if you want to go in completely neutral don't read this, even though it's nothing major:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Some critics and sites have said that Reynolds and the Firefly crew helped the doctor rescue his sister thereby creating a sort of revisionist history. This is not the case. In the cut we saw at least, it was just the doctor rescuing his sister and obviously some time later (the show's premier) they hooked up with the Firefly crew and went from there.


Also, if you're not a fan of the show, then it won't break your heart when certain characters are only in a few scenes since the main focus of the film is on Mal and River. If you are a fan, then you'll be satisfied that some characters who's screen time was short-changed might jump to the front lines for the sequels.
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ElijahPrice
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2005, 03:31:32 AM »

Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"
A History of Violence being the prime candidate, with The Corpse Bride coming in second.


Good order.  71 minutes is short.  After a week of thinking about History of Violence, the movie was a lot better than I first thought.  Definitely worth seeing if not only for William Hurt's character.
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2005, 04:02:49 AM »

Apparently there's a Neil Gaiman (some kind of involvement) movie coming out on Friday too, Mirrormask.  I don't know much about it, but I've liked his novels, that might be interesting too.  There was an interview with Gaiman and Whedon from Time linked by slashdot this morning, that's the first I heard about it.

Personally I'm going to see Serenity on Friday night for the third time smile

And I agree with WBS's comments in his spoiler.  Unless they've changed something since the previews, the complaint he mentions there is completely wrong.  No one who's seen the show would take it that way.  If you hadn't there might be some room for misunderstanding, but if you hadn't seen the show it wouldn't matter to you anyway smile
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2005, 05:45:40 AM »

Quote from: "ElijahPrice"
Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"
A History of Violence being the prime candidate, with The Corpse Bride coming in second.


Good order.  71 minutes is short.  After a week of thinking about History of Violence, the movie was a lot better than I first thought.  Definitely worth seeing if not only for William Hurt's character.


Yes its very short. Its pretty good too, but I dont really like the singing parts.
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Dafones
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2005, 09:38:17 AM »

Man, A History of Violence is harsh. It's simple, it's gritty, and it's brutal. A very solid flick, but one that I'm still unsure of. It's awesome and terrible at the same time, and not the movie I was expecting at all.

Did anyone else see it? Wouldn't mind hashing it out with another person.
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Calvin
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2005, 05:39:54 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
Man, A History of Violence is harsh. It's simple, it's gritty, and it's brutal. A very solid flick, but one that I'm still unsure of. It's awesome and terrible at the same time, and not the movie I was expecting at all.

Did anyone else see it? Wouldn't mind hashing it out with another person.


No, but your impressions make me WANT to see it even more. Thanks.

Segue: Has anyone seen Proof? Its still in limited release but I am very curious about it.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2005, 03:10:55 AM »

I saw History of Violence this weekend.

Without spoiling it, I'd say it falls in the 'Breakdown' category of movies, in that you have to accept a hard to buy major plot point to enjoy the movie.  

*spoiler for Breakdown

In Breakdown,  Kurt Russell lets his wife ride off with a truck driver to get help, since their car has broken down.  Now, I wouldn't do that, no one I know would let their gf, much less wife, ride off with some strange guy.  But the entire plot of that movie depends on that happening- if he doesn't do let her go then there is no movie.
*end spoiler


History of Violence has a plot point very much like that, a certain character chooses to handle something  in a way that makes no sense(to me at least).  Other than that, I thought it was very good.
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Dafones
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2005, 04:06:55 AM »

Put your thoughts into a spoiler tag, I'm curious to know which point you're talking about.


As for Serenity, I don't think I'm gunna be able to grab any buddies to watch that one. Looks like another solo matinee. Man, inner film geek tendencies sure can suck sometimes.
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2005, 07:03:48 AM »

big spoiler:
Spoiler for Hiden:
The part I had a hard time buying was that Tom would stick to his "I don't know what you are talking about" story, after the first encounter with Fogarty at least.  I can see trying that once, hoping it'll fly.  But once it didn't, he needed to do something else.  However, it was obvious to me that the filmmakers wanted a twist to the story, so the script wouldn't allow for that.  I feel that was a cheat.  

Are we really supposed to believe that 'Tom' thought they would just go away?  Why in the hell would he think that?

Imagine how differently the movie would have played out if Tom had said "Okay, you know me. But I have a new life now blah blah..." after first denying it.  That's how it should have gone, but then there would have been no twist to the story later, would there?

On a side note, there were lots of boos in the theater because of that last scene.  The movie was dynamic throughout, but went for a very subdued ending scene. That was sort of an odd choice, I didn't really care for it.


There ARE lots of good things in this movie.  The actor who played the son was really good, I really felt for the kid.  William Hurt did in this movie what Christopher Walken did in Pulp Fiction- stroll into a movie and steal it, hehe.  The 'action' scenes, both violent and otherwise, were gritty indeed.  That kind of grittines is hard to pull off but it goes a long way to making the characters real to me.  I liked the character of the sheriff.
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Dafones
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2005, 07:29:59 AM »

Hmm ...

Spoiler for Hiden:
Go figure. I thought Tom would have denied his past until the day he died if he was able to. That he kept it up didn't bother me in the least.

I saw the constant front as a little game, a stalemate. Fogerty knew who Tom was, and Tom knew Fogerty knew who he was, but he was unable or unwilling to allow that part of him to re-enter his life. I also got the sense that Fogerty enjoyed toying with Tom, but he didn't appreciate how things would develop, and underestimated how Tom would react.
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« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2005, 07:48:06 AM »

my own 'Hmm ...'

Spoiler for Hiden:
I understand Tom denying his past to people who did not know him then, such as the sheriff and his wife.  

But what possible good does it do him to deny it to the guy whose eye he gouged out?  What did he think the result of denying it to them would be?  It makes no sense.

He knew these guys, knew what they were, in fact he was one of them. So he would know what they came for. Furthermore, he would know that if Fogarty had traveled 600+miles to get him, he did it because people back in Philly knew about 'Tom'.  Meaning that even if he killed Forgarty and his men, that wouldn't be the end of it.  The moment Fogarty walked in the door, 'Tom' was in deep shit, but the script has him acting like if he thinks those mob guys would believe him if he just kept saying "You have the wrong guy" enough times.  :?
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2005, 12:31:37 PM »

I didn't really like the movie.  I thought the ending was totally weak.  The general feel when we left was "SUCK".  I heard more people say it sucked than anything.
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2005, 04:40:32 PM »

I saw History of Violence this past Saturday and it was fantastic.  I've always been sort of 50/50 on Cronenberg films, but his slow-pulse / extreme, gooey violence style really worked well on this one.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Tom was basically giving them chances to just go away.  As was stated all knew who he was, he was telling them indirectly that he wanted nothing to do with that life anymore.

He saw his son take-after him and beat those other kids in to the hospital.  He didn't want anymore violence in his life.  His his, ahem, history of it caught up with him.  He knew it was coming after being plastered all over the news.  And his son further followed him in to it when he saved his father's life.  That was the realization moment when he knew he'd have to face his brother again.  The phone call just got it all rolling.

The ending was perfect too.  How much happier could it have been?  You just find out that your husband/father used to be a hitman for the mob who tore a guy's eye out with barbed wire for God's sake!  You've seen him kill 3 men on your front lawn (one by slamming his nose in to his brain) and he's killed two other men previously.  I thought it was a huge leap and slightly too happy just to have him sitting at the table with all of them.  They've got some serious healing and therapy ahead of them.  I think the middle-age ladies next to me (who also talked through the whole f'in film) wanted them to hug it out or something.  Now that would've been teh lame.

Anyway, huge thumbs up.  The more I think about it the more I like it.  I might even go back and see it again, but it's a definite purchase.
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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2005, 05:11:48 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
First of all, it's been twenty years or so since Tom's seen Fogerty (and half vice versa). I think that's plenty of time for age itself to change the way Tom looks, and it wasn't unreasonable, for me, to have him hope that Fogerty had doubts about him actually being Joey. He didn't. More than anything, I do think Tom hoped that Fogerty would initially fuck off, hense the denial. As was stated above (can't remember who, sorry), once Tom knew that Fogerty wasn't buying the act, he kept it up in a different vein, this time asking, in subtext, for Fogerty to fuck off, because he was through with his old life. And so the movie unfolds as it does.

And as for the ending, I have no idea how else it could have ended. I remember watching that end scene, and then the long cut to black before the credits, and part of me did feel a little incomplete. But that's the exact point. Tom's got a lotta 'splainin' to do, and the family as a whole has a lot of healing, if that's even possible. The little girl ain't jumping out of her chair, yelling, "Dadeeee!", and hugging her father. Tom's lot that connection with his family, and may not be able to regain it.
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« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2005, 05:41:47 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
See, even I can get in on the fun too.
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« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2005, 06:00:35 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Spoiler for Hiden:
See, even I can get in on the fun too.


Spoiler for Hiden:
Maybe we should just change the thread title to "Spoilers"
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« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2005, 06:23:27 PM »

Quote from: "Eco-Logic"
I didn't really like the movie.  I thought the ending was totally weak.  The general feel when we left was "SUCK".  I heard more people say it sucked than anything.


I think some people think its "cool" to say a movie sucked as the theater empties out.
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Dafones
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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2005, 07:12:22 PM »

I changed the thread title, but I'm a little worried, only because I haven't seen Serenity yet, and I don't want to destroy myself with spoilers :?  . I suppose there's only one way to change that though: see the damned movie.
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« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2005, 07:34:05 PM »

edit: since there is a spoiler warning on the thread, I removed the tags.  This is for History of Violence.


I guess we have a fundemental difference in how we see this issue then.

I felt that the sheriff said it best "these kind of guys wouldn't come all the way out here for nothing" or something like that.  Tom, having been one of them, would know that too.  Tom had NO reason to believe they would just leave, none whatsoever.  In fact, we learn enough details later about the extent of what Joey did, that Tom/Joey would know for a fact that Fogarty would NEVER just leave him, it is simply not possible.  Joey's own brother almost immediately had his flunkies try to kill him.  He was wanted in the worst way, and at the end talking to his brother we see that Joey knows it, he is not the least surprised at the venom aimed his way.

As to whether they really knew it was him, c'mon!  20 years or not,  they have come out all that way and told him AND his wife to their faces that they know who he is.  They KNOW who he is, and Tom knows it.  So I can't buy the idea that time has changed Joey's looks enough for 'Tom' to think that will throw them off the track.

I think the problem with the ending is that it miscalculates how much impact the 'violence' part of Tom's life has on the family.  

What I saw at the end was a son more concerned with having a hypocrite for a dad(do don't violence, then SLAP! lying about his entire life, lying to his wife, etc) than what his dad did before he became Tom.  Remember the son's line "What do I call you?"?  He was concerned with the falseness of things, not the violent past.

Same with the wife.  Remember her line "what about our name?  the kids..."?  She was thinking of the practical things a false identity affects, like credit history, social security, taxes... all that stuff.  The false identity is the problem, not the violent past it hides.   She has a husband who has lied to her about the most basic thing, he has probably been more dishonest with her doing that then if he just had an affair.  THAT'S what I saw her dealing with at the end, not concern over his violent past and what it means to her.

I think that if they had Tom be honest with his wife after the first appearance of Fogarty, the focus would have shifted from his deception to his past(the violence).  In turn, I think this ending would have worked better that way.  But once again, that means giving up the 'twist' of Tom really being Joey right away, a twist the filmmakers took great pains in hiding from us till much later.
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Dafones
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« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2005, 08:59:03 PM »

Hmm. See all of those "complaints" from Tom's family were window dressing, as far as I was concerned. Watching your husband mangle three goons right in front of your house, or having to kill a man to save your father's life after seeing those acts, brought the violence to the forefront, in my opinion. The last name wasn't the issue. It's one of those little things that pops in your head, sure, and maybe it's said because that's all that can be said. You make passionate/hot/sexy love to a man that destroyed another man's face with a handful of barbed wire, and never really knew who you fell in love with, raised children with, built a home with? I really don't think the last name is what's on her mind at the end of the movie.
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2005, 09:32:23 PM »

First off, if you don't care for it then that's perfectly fine with me (not that you were waiting on my permission slywink).  But this right near the top of my list for films this year and I'm just explaining why I feel so.

As we've already stated Tom knew who they were and that they weren't going to leave.  He knew that they knew who he was.  There's no debating that fact.  He just did not want to go back to his old life of killing people.  He had left it behind when he spent 3 years in the middle of nowhere changing himself and clearing his head.  He had gotten away from the violence and wanted nothing to do with it.

But when that waitress was threatened his instincts kicked in.  And when his face was plastered all over the news, he knew trouble was on the way.  But he didn't want it anymore.  When Fogarty showed up he was still trying to get them to leave.  Still denying that his old life, that he obviously felt guilty about, was back to haunt him.  Maybe even destroy him and, even worse, his new family.  But deep down you could tell that he knew there was no avoiding it.  That's why he ran all the way back to his house on a false, but justified, alarm.  It wasn't denial on his part, just reluctance to be involved with anybody in anyway from his past.

How could his family be overly concerned with the violent past?  They didn't know any of the details outside of Fogarty's one story.  After they saw him take care of the 3 men in the front lawn they were are extremely upset.  But you are correct, the issue is not just his violent past, but of their current status.  What concerns them the most is what's most relevant to them.  And that's their foundation as a family.  He turns out to have a past that he had lied about.

His son just had his image of his father torn from a pacifist to a hero to a former killer.  His wife had her whole identity yanked out from under her.  Now she's a member of a mob family?  It wasn't a matter of just the last name, it concerned her whole life and her children's lives.

In the end he made the choice for his new life.  I think blowing your brother's brains is a pretty clear choice.  Of course his hand was forced, but at that point he had everything to lose.  His old family was murder and violence.  He new one was peace and tranquility.  He came back to them and they were closer and farther apart then they had ever been.
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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2005, 09:41:52 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
You make passionate/hot/sexy love to a man that destroyed another man's face with a handful of barbed wire, and never really knew who you fell in love with, raised children with, built a home with? I really don't think the last name is what's on her mind at the end of the movie.


Aha, but in that rundown you gave, was 'destroyed another man's face with barbed wire' the significant part?  Or was 'never really knew who you fell in love with' the important bit?  I think it was the latter. The reason is that if you change the nature of his past(for instance what if he was a nonviolent guy running out on credit card debt), you still can have that exact same ending- a family looking at a man they didn't really know.

When I saw Edie in that last scene, I was watching a woman struggle with the knowledge that her life was a lie, thanks to him.  I didn't see a woman thinking "OMG! He's a killer!".  I think if that was a problem(his violent past), the wife and kids wouldn't have been there when he got back.

I have read elsewhere how the kid's face reflects the negative impact Tom's violence has on him, now and in the future.  I don't think so.  If anything, the kid is now going to be king of his high school.  He's kicked the bully's ass and put him in the hospital, killed a real gangster, has a dad who has killed 4 men(that the town knows of) AND neither he nor his dad are going to jail, in fact they will be considered heroes.  He'll have more girls and friends now then he will know what to do with.  Be invited to all the best parties and such. There are no negative ramifications to the violence for the son.

The one thing he doesn't have is a dad he can trust...yet.  There ARE ramifications to the lying.

Seeing the girl get dad the plate, then the son get him the meat makes me think that is their way of reaching out, of starting to build a bridge.  The bridge across the LIES, not the violence.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2005, 10:01:47 PM »

Quote from: "Jancelot"
First off, if you don't care for it then that's perfectly fine with me (not that you were waiting on my permission slywink).  But this right near the top of my list for films this year and I'm just explaining why I feel so.


Actually, I agree the movie is very good, I just have that problem with the denial by the main character.  I just wish that part had been handled in a way consistent with the way the character is presented.  

He is presented as being better at gunplay after 20 years of peaceful family life than pros who have been doing it every day as their occupation.  Okay, I can buy that he was that good of a predator, so it all came back to him as instinct.  But then why is he so stupid as to allow the mobsters to take the offensive in ruining his life?  He acted more like prey than predator in that regard.  The moment he knew Fogarty was in town, why didn't he take action to save the new life he apparently cherished so much, instead of just continue to deny being Joey?  Could it be that the only reason he didn't was because the filmmakers didn't want him to? In other words, there was no good reason beyond preserving the twist in the story.

Like I said in my first post about this movie, if you can get past that I think it's a movie worth seeing.
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Dafones
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« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2005, 01:24:21 AM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"
When I saw Edie in that last scene, I was watching a woman struggle with the knowledge that her life was a lie, thanks to him.  I didn't see a woman thinking "OMG! He's a killer!".  I think if that was a problem(his violent past), the wife and kids wouldn't have been there when he got back.


Interesting, because I see the violence as a big issue. Edie loves Tom, and Tom loves Edie, but Edie didn't fall in love with the man she thought she did. Like, that's the problem - she loves him, and he's still partially the man she loves, but there's nasty elements, really nasty layers to Tom that she couldn't even have dreamed of. Layers that she's terrified of. That final scene is nothing but conflicting emotions, in everyone. I don't see her life as the lie, I really don't. She's still the same person.


I love movies that are actually worth discussing.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2005, 05:31:49 AM »

But don't you think she thinks her life is a lie?  Not that it IS a lie, only that she thinks it is.

For instance, remember when she told him he was the best man she knew(or something similar), she said that in good faith then.  I'm thinking she would not say that to him ever again, even assuming they work things out and stay together. That's the lie, that's the kind of thing that would make her think it's all a lie.

On the plus side(for him), once he did come clean he did not dodge it.  When she asked if he killed for money or fun, he said something like 'both'.  That's something to build on, he could spin it "well, I wanted to protect you from it, but once you found out I laid it all out there.".

There's a couple of things I'm wondering about:
One, when Fogarty said "I should have killed you in Philly", was that a general statement or a reference to a specific time when Fogarty had him in his sights and just didn't pull the trigger for some reason?

If Fogarty let him go before, that would go a long way to explaining why Tom might think he would again.

Lastly, was Tom's brother gonna kill him more to make amends with his bosses or as payback for what Joey put him through?

Initially, my thought was that Fogarty's statement was an off the cuff thing, an 'I never liked you' type of statement, not literal.  And at first I thought Richie made a point of saying how much it personally cost him, but at the moment of the killing, he turned his back to Joey, as if he couldn't stomach seeing his brother die.
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ElijahPrice
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« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2005, 01:35:42 PM »

Sorry to butt in on the convo but you guys made me realize something.  Tom's talent in violence is something that is innate in him and something he did not want to use any longer.  In the past he used this ability for bad things within the mob world, but after becoming Tom Stall the violence changed for good.  I think this is under played because of the sheer shock of the violent acts he is commiting but he is not a predator anymore, he is defending his new identity and that of his wife.  This is a huge change in mentality that I think was the factor that Edie eventually realized, the past is the past but Tom Stall is still Tom Stall now.
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Dafones
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« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2005, 02:54:34 PM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"
But don't you think she thinks her life is a lie?  Not that it IS a lie, only that she thinks it is.


He he, not really. But that's just my take. I agree with much of what you've brought up - and I don't mean to be a paint in the ass at all - but I honestly don't think that Edie's issue is her self-reflection upon who she is if she's married this man.


And ElijahPrice, that's why the viewer can still support Tom, because he's the victim at this point in the tale - he's a hell of a violent victim, but still a victim.
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Orgull
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« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2005, 02:59:49 PM »

My 2 cents...

This movie disturbed the hell out of me. Any movie that invites this much conflict and discussion has got something going for it. The storytelling without exposition was terrific. The violence was actually violent instead of just glorified action.

On the other hand, it wasn't entertaining at all, until William Hurt's character showed up.

"How do you fuck that up?" I actually laughed out loud in the theatre.
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