[TV] AMC's Hell on Wheels

[rshetts2]

Anyone still watching this?  Because I just finished the season 2 finale and I got to tell you, they pretty much ruined the series for me.

[Covenant]

Anyone still watching this?  Because I just finished the season 2 finale and I got to tell you, they pretty much ruined the series for me.

What didn't you like about it? The wife and I quite enjoyed the finale and are looking forward to the new direction it is heading.

[rshetts2]

Not sure if we are spoiler free here so my dislike for the finale and season 2 in general is below:

Spoiler for Hiden:

I didnt like that the killed off Lily, seemed trite and cliche' especially since the series started with his wife being killed.  Didnt like the hanging scene, once again it was contrived to give the Swede an out clause.  Made no sense, after all, Bohanon spent an entire season hunting down and killing the men who killed his wife.  After everything the Swede did, why would he not just kill him.  Its not like hes a changed man and wanted to follow legal channels, he was going after Durant with a bull whip earlier just for threatening Lily's life.  The whole set up and the way it played out seemed so off and out of character.  As far as Lilys murder, my god what poor writing.  After everything she just went through, her gun conveniently misfires?  And how could the Swede even walk let alone choke the life out of someone, after all of his injuries.  I just felt it was very poorly written.  Its seemed that they killed Lily for shock value and didnt care how they pulled it off.  I really kind of felt season 2 lost it way for the most part anyway, spending way too much soap opera time with the multiple love triangles and then closed all of them off with tragedy.    I really liked the 1st season, didnt like the 2nd much at all. 

[Covenant]

Not sure if we are spoiler free here so my dislike for the finale and season 2 in general is below:

Spoiler for Hiden:

I didnt like that the killed off Lily, seemed trite and cliche' especially since the series started with his wife being killed.  Didnt like the hanging scene, once again it was contrived to give the Swede an out clause.  Made no sense, after all, Bohanon spent an entire season hunting down and killing the men who killed his wife.  After everything the Swede did, why would he not just kill him.  Its not like hes a changed man and wanted to follow legal channels, he was going after Durant with a bull whip earlier just for threatening Lily's life.  The whole set up and the way it played out seemed so off and out of character.  As far as Lilys murder, my god what poor writing.  After everything she just went through, her gun conveniently misfires?  And how could the Swede even walk let alone choke the life out of someone, after all of his injuries.  I just felt it was very poorly written.  Its seemed that they killed Lily for shock value and didnt care how they pulled it off.  I really kind of felt season 2 lost it way for the most part anyway, spending way too much soap opera time with the multiple love triangles and then closed all of them off with tragedy.    I really liked the 1st season, didnt like the 2nd much at all. 

Spoiler for Hiden:

I agree with the hanging thing completely... we spent several moments during the season yelling "just kill him already!!" at the screen.  As for the rest, here are my thoughts on why they did what they did:

1) Killing Lily was the culmination of Swede's plan.  He wanted revenge against Bohanan for taking his job and his position in the community, so decided to take everything from him that he loved (initially just the railroad, but then Lily when he learned of their relationship).
2) Swede's injuries were mostly an act.  I don't believe the story he told of being captured and strung out for an instant. It was already established that he was friends with the indians and was providing them with intel and rifles. My guess is that he let them burn him to a point where it looked bad and then proceeded to act like he was on death's door. I do agree they should have put a scene in there to make that more clear though. You shouldn't have to assume all that really.
3) Lily's gun didn't misfire, it wasn't loaded.  My recollection is that she picked it up from the table, but he was already in her home before she got there; plenty of opportunity to unload the weapon.

[rshetts2]

Not sure if we are spoiler free here so my dislike for the finale and season 2 in general is below:

Spoiler for Hiden:

I didnt like that the killed off Lily, seemed trite and cliche' especially since the series started with his wife being killed.  Didnt like the hanging scene, once again it was contrived to give the Swede an out clause.  Made no sense, after all, Bohanon spent an entire season hunting down and killing the men who killed his wife.  After everything the Swede did, why would he not just kill him.  Its not like hes a changed man and wanted to follow legal channels, he was going after Durant with a bull whip earlier just for threatening Lily's life.  The whole set up and the way it played out seemed so off and out of character.  As far as Lilys murder, my god what poor writing.  After everything she just went through, her gun conveniently misfires?  And how could the Swede even walk let alone choke the life out of someone, after all of his injuries.  I just felt it was very poorly written.  Its seemed that they killed Lily for shock value and didnt care how they pulled it off.  I really kind of felt season 2 lost it way for the most part anyway, spending way too much soap opera time with the multiple love triangles and then closed all of them off with tragedy.    I really liked the 1st season, didnt like the 2nd much at all. 

Spoiler for Hiden:

I agree with the hanging thing completely... we spent several moments during the season yelling "just kill him already!!" at the screen.  As for the rest, here are my thoughts on why they did what they did:

1) Killing Lily was the culmination of Swede's plan.  He wanted revenge against Bohanan for taking his job and his position in the community, so decided to take everything from him that he loved (initially just the railroad, but then Lily when he learned of their relationship).
2) Swede's injuries were mostly an act.  I don't believe the story he told of being captured and strung out for an instant. It was already established that he was friends with the indians and was providing them with intel and rifles. My guess is that he let them burn him to a point where it looked bad and then proceeded to act like he was on death's door. I do agree they should have put a scene in there to make that more clear though. You shouldn't have to assume all that really.
3) Lily's gun didn't misfire, it wasn't loaded.  My recollection is that she picked it up from the table, but he was already in her home before she got there; plenty of opportunity to unload the weapon.

Spoiler for Hiden:

  My problem wasnt so much the reasons for killing Lily, I understood that Swede hated Bohanon, was insane and would have done anything he could to bring emotional pain to Cullen.  It wasnt the plot so much as the delivery.  If they wanted us to believe Swedes injuries were fake, why did they give us a flashback of the indians torturing him.  Misdirection?  Also the injuries to his hands as he ripped them out of the manacles looked pretty debilitating as well, were those fake?   Lily pulled an arrow out of her shoulder and killed a full grown healthy indian warrior with it, yet she couldnt handle an injured Swede?  Thats sloppy writing.   I do agree about the gun, I forgot she picked it up off the table and it had likely been unloaded.  I just felt the whole scene and set up was poorly done and they relied on shock to gloss over the issues. 

[hepcat]

That season finale felt like High Plains Drifter, Part Deux.  I loved it.  Now I want to go back and watch all the Eastwood Leone films. 

Bohannon isn't supposed to have a happy ending.  Sometimes I wonder if he's actually IN hell and just doesn't know it. 

...although I truly hope that isn't the case.  I want a gritty western, not a supernatural story.

[rshetts2]

It wasnt what happened that bothered me it was the really bad writing loopholes surrounding the finale that bothered me.  They used shock to gloss over the poor writing.  I can handle a little creative license but to completely ignore the way youve established a character to provide a cheap out for another is weak.  The whole Sean/Ruth dynamic was poorly done and felt pasted in for no reason whatsoever.  I could go on but since it appears that we have likely seen the last of Hell on Wheels, I guess theres really no need.   Truth be told, I almost hope that the supernatural explanation is true because it would at least explain some of the weak plot points.   Its too bad really as the show had tons of potential with some great characters but it seemed, at least to me, that they decided to destroy everything that was good about the show in the finale, just for kicks.

[hepcat]

I think your dislike is a combination of missing a few things (the unloaded gun, for example) and your expectations about how things should've gone...which is not the writers' fault.  Everyone's an armchair quarterback.  That's fine that you didn't like it, but I wouldn't call it bad, or even lazy writing.  The only thing I might agree with is the strange restraint that Bohannon showed towards the Swede the last couple of episodes.  Other than that, the show was good.

p.s. not sure where you're seeing news that the show isn't being renewed.  i've seen no indication for or against at this point.

[rshetts2]

No it is not due to the gun thing or my expectations.  Even you admit that the thing with Bohanon and the Swede was off.  The direction they chose to move the plot was fine, the way they wrote and executed it was sloppy at best.  It fine that you liked it but I wouldn't call it good or even adept writing.     I guess we will just have to disagree on this, which is ok.  I just didnt like the way they used shock value to gloss over what I felt were glaring issues. 

Spoiler for Hiden:

  Regarding the death of Lily Bell, theres a pervasive theory running around that she isnt dead and Bohanons overly dramatic death walk through town was intended to convince people who wanted her dead ( like the Durants ) that she was in fact dead.  I myself dont subscribe to this theory but it is out there. 

Hell on Wheels season 1 premiered with 4.4 million viewers.  With The Walking Dead to help boost it it held around 3 million viewers and the finale had over 2.8 million.
 Season 2's premiere experienced a further drop to 2.5 million and viewership dropped through out the run to 2.18 for the finale.  Theres been nothing official regarding its renewal but theres been rumblings on the AMC forums that the decline in viewership has doomed the show.  It is likely that we may have seen the end of Hell on Wheels.  They may bring it back but I wouldnt hold my breath.

[hepcat]

I admitted that I thought one aspect of the show felt off (the aforementioned Swede stuff).  That's a far cry from saying the show was badly written this season.  I thought it was quite good for the most part.

Spoiler for Hiden:

That theory IS an example of bad writing however.   If that turns out to be true (which I very highly doubt), then I would feel they dropped the ball.

[theohall]

I felt it was poorly written for one reason.  It seemed like when they ran out of things to have characters say, they took the Team America angle and went with "We need a montage!"  Serious over-use of montages this season, which to me is an indication of lazy writers.  Heck, the end of season one with that crappy music was darn near 6 minutes long.

[CeeKay]

just watched the finale.

Spoiler for Hiden:

why the fuck didn't he just shoot the Swede? 

I haven't seen any word on a season 3, the season 2 renewal was announced halfway through the first season so who knows.

[CeeKay]

woohoo!  season 3!

[rickfc]

woohoo!  season 3!

OH.HELL.YES.

[hepcat]

Whoo hoo.  I wanna see a Bohannon without any reason to be nice (i.e. sans blondie mchottiepants).

[rshetts2]

Curious as to how things are going to turn though as the shows 2 creators have declined to renew their contracts and have left Hell on Wheels.  They may be around for consulting but they are working on major network stuff now, so its doubtful they will have much input.  They kept the episodes at 10.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing as they kind of rambled last season and maybe they will tighten up the series and condense the story line a bit and try to eliminate some of the filler they fell back on so often last season.    My prediction for next season : 

Spoiler for Hiden:

Both major deaths in the finale, Lily and The Swede, were smoke screens and we will see both of them back next year

[hepcat]

I don't see how that could possibly happen without completely ruining the show's credibility.  It'd be like the end of the Newhart series in its silliness.

[CeeKay]

Curious as to how things are going to turn though as the shows 2 creators have declined to renew their contracts and have left Hell on Wheels.  They may be around for consulting but they are working on major network stuff now, so its doubtful they will have much input.  They kept the episodes at 10.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing as they kind of rambled last season and maybe they will tighten up the series and condense the story line a bit and try to eliminate some of the filler they fell back on so often last season.    My prediction for next season : 

Spoiler for Hiden:

Both major deaths in the finale, Lily and The Swede, were smoke screens and we will see both of them back next year

Spoiler for Hiden:

I too doubt the Swede is dead.  I think they're going to have to pretend he is Rasputin to kill him.

[rickfc]

Curious as to how things are going to turn though as the shows 2 creators have declined to renew their contracts and have left Hell on Wheels.  They may be around for consulting but they are working on major network stuff now, so its doubtful they will have much input.  They kept the episodes at 10.  Thats not necessarily a bad thing as they kind of rambled last season and maybe they will tighten up the series and condense the story line a bit and try to eliminate some of the filler they fell back on so often last season.    My prediction for next season : 

Spoiler for Hiden:

Both major deaths in the finale, Lily and The Swede, were smoke screens and we will see both of them back next year

Spoiler for Hiden:

I too doubt the Swede is dead.  I think they're going to have to pretend he is Rasputin to kill him.

Well, the Swede did almost become the Joker to Bohannon's Batman.

Spoiler for Hiden:

It would be really hard for them to find a new adversary for him to have with Durant gone as well.

[CeeKay]

Curious as to how things are going to turn though as the shows 2 creators have declined to renew their contracts and have left Hell on Wheels. 

well, here's a start:  third season renewal on hold after the executive producer/showrunner unexpectedly departs:

AMC just issued a statement confirming that Hell On Wheels showrunner John Shiban has left and that the series’ third season renewal is now contingent on hiring a new showrunner approved by the network.

[rickfc]

Curious as to how things are going to turn though as the shows 2 creators have declined to renew their contracts and have left Hell on Wheels. 

well, here's a start:  third season renewal on hold after the executive producer/showrunner unexpectedly departs:

AMC just issued a statement confirming that Hell On Wheels showrunner John Shiban has left and that the series’ third season renewal is now contingent on hiring a new showrunner approved by the network.

Well, fuck.

[CeeKay]

“Hell On Wheels” SEASON 3 PREMIERES SATURDAY, AUGUST 3 AT 9PM ET/PT

AMC Also Acquires Additional Western Classics to Make Saturday a Destination for Western Fans from Sunrise to Sundown

New York – April 15, 2013 – AMC announced today that the network is adding a third night of original programming with the season three premiere of “Hell On Wheels” debuting Saturday, August 3 at 9pm ET/PT. Executive produced by showrunner John Wirth (“Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles,” “Falling Skies,” “The Cape”), Mark Richard and Jeremy Gold, Head of Creative Affairs, Endemol Studios and, and starring Anson Mount, Colm Meaney, and Common, season 3 of “Hell On Wheels” lands in the year 1867, the third year of the building of the transcontinental railroad. Cullen Bohannon leaves his vengeance-seeking behind and invests in the new American landscape...the beginnings of big business, big religion, and the new role of Wall Street in the White House. Bohannon must contend with racism, greed and murder as he single-mindedly leads the Union Pacific in its race across the country against the Central Pacific Railroad. The high stakes corporate race, the environmental costs and degradation of the native peoples' way of life are themes that resonate deeply in today's America.

For over a decade of Saturdays, AMC has celebrated the American western genre through a mix of series and movies. Today, AMC adds to its inventory a selection of classic films from Paramount Pictures to super-serve the western fan including “El Dorado” (1967), “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance” (1962), “The Shootist” (1976) and “The Sons of Katie Elder” (1965). The network will also celebrate the anniversaries of several renowned westerns including the 60th anniversary of “Hondo” (1953) and the 50th anniversary of “McLintock!” (1963), both starring John Wayne, as well as the 45th anniversary of “Hang ‘em High” (1968) and the 40th anniversary of “High Plains Drifter” (1973), both starring Clint Eastwood. These films will join the classics including “Chisum” (1970), “The Cowboys” (1972), “Rio Bravo” (1959), “The Alamo” (1960), “The Undefeated” (1969), “Joe Kidd” (1972), “A Fistful of Dollars” (1964), “For a Few Dollars More” (1965) and “The Good the Bad and the Ugly” (1966), which are already licensed by AMC. Moreover, the network has also acquired the television series, “Rawhide,” starring Clint Eastwood, which joins Rifleman beginning April 20. Additionally the network will air the miniseries Lonesome Dove and, for the very first time on AMC, its sequel, Return to Lonesome Dove.

 “A new episode of ‘Hell On Wheels’ on Saturday night after a full day of western fan favorites is going to be like the saddle on top of the horse,” said Charlie Collier, President and General Manager, AMC. “This is a programmer’s dream – to have a genre specific, 14-hour lead-in to one of your highest rated originals. We are so excited about this opportunity to entertain AMC’s audience in a new way.”

“Hell on Wheels” showrunner, John Wirth, says the new season “will be a western about work -- the building of the railroad, the binding of the nation after the Civil War, and the rehabilitation of the men who lived and fought their way through those exploits. This season we're placing Cullen Bohannon at the center of the show, and taking him away from the revenge motive which propelled him into the series.” He continues, “AMC has raised the bar for television dramas, they've set the gold standard. There's nothing else like this on television.”

“Hell on Wheels,” was the second highest series launch in AMC history and was also a top 20 program for engagement among age 25-54 (IAG) for the broadcast season for 2011-2012. The series’ second season wrapped in October 2012 with an average of 2.4 million total viewers and 3.2 million viewers with Live plus 7. “Hell on Wheels” was developed by Endemol USA. The series is produced by leading independent studio, Entertainment One (eOne) and Nomadic Pictures. eOne’s Television CEO John Morayniss and EVP US scripted television Michael Rosenberg oversee production in partnership with co-producers Mike Frislev and Chad Oakes from Nomadic Pictures.

[rshetts2]

This season we're placing Cullen Bohannon at the center of the show, and taking him away from the revenge motive which propelled him into the series.”

This doesnt sound good. 

[hepcat]

Why not?  A show solely about revenge can get real old, real quick.  Especially when the folks you're trying to get revenge on are about 3 or 4 guys in total.  Unless you REALLY pad the scripts, that's one...maybe two seasons at most.

Taking the lead character out into the world and showing him evolve past that single note characterization is definitely the way to go.  Look at the last season.  The show was at its best when it explored his interaction with the railroad and his attempts to grow.