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Author Topic: (Sports) Donaghy docs allege refs altered games  (Read 4401 times)
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naednek
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« on: June 11, 2008, 01:23:35 AM »

I so wish GG was still alive so I can revive that thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3436401
Anyways,

Quote
A letter sent to the sentencing court on behalf of convicted former referee Tim Donaghy outlines just such a plan. It also alleges that referees helped alter the outcome of the controversial 2002 Game 6 playoff series between the Los Angeles Lakers and Sacramento Kings.

Quote
The letter also details an incident in the 2002 playoffs in which Donaghy alleges that two referees, who were known as NBA "company men," wanted to extend a series to seven games. "Team 5" could have wrapped up the series in Game 6 but saw two players foul out, lost the game and ultimately the series.

Only one series went to seven games in the 2002 playoffs: Lakers-Kings.

In Game 6, the Lakers made 34-of-40 free throws to 18-of-25 for the Kings. In the fourth quarter alone, Los Angeles hit 21-of-27 from the line while Sacramento made 7-of-9. After that game, a 106-102 Lakers win, Kings coach Rick Adelman expressed his frustration with the officiating.

"Our big guys get 20 fouls tonight and [Shaquille O'Neal] gets four? You tell me how the game went," Adelman said. "It's just the way it is. Obviously, they got the game called the way they wanted to get it called.

That was one of the worst officiating I have ever seen, and it still stings a little.  It's like Raiders and the tuck rule smile
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 01:33:51 AM »

I have a bad feeling about this.  If it proves to have any evidence behind it, it's going to throw the whole Stern era of the NBA into a much different light.  If they were willing to do this, the claim that they manipulated Ewing to the Knicks begins to look a whole lot more reasonable, among other things.  Some of the local sports jocks today noted that there have been hints from different owners over the years, most recently including Mark Cuban, that the league may not be entirely legit.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 01:35:43 AM by Sarkus » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 01:47:04 AM »

There is ZERO, I repeat ZERO chance that this does anything to the NBA.

ESPN will NEVER let anything happen. It will be buried so deep that it'll be tougher to find than Bolivian, D League, soccer scores.

When we found out a ref bet on games that he officiated, it was instantly swept under the rug. It's incredible that there was no real fallout from that.

If the Patriots did this, well, yeah, it would lead SportsCenter for 5 years like taping or having a guy practice who shouldn't (yet Marvin Harrison shoots someone and it's never mentioned).

I also remember the talk that the NHL should shut down because Janet Jones played poker.

ESPN will make excuses, dismiss, and discredit it.

Stephen A. Smith calls him a desperate liar.

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« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 01:53:02 AM by Devil » Logged

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Sarkus
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 01:49:36 AM »

ESPN has nothing to do with it.  It's really up to whether the Feds who Donaghy told this too find anything in their inevitable follow-up. If the get refs who corroborate the story, Stern is done.

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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 01:52:57 AM »

Quote from: naednek on June 11, 2008, 01:23:35 AM

It's like Raiders and the tuck rule smile

Yeah, that still hurts.

Quote
ESPN will NEVER let anything happen. It will be buried so deep that it'll be tougher to find than Bolivian, D League, soccer scores.

ESPN will make excuses, dismiss, and discredit it.

While I don't think Donaghy is telling the whole story (seems to be in "take everyone down with me" mode), there's a lot of evidence that lends at least some truth to his allegations.   ESPN has way too much money wrapped up in the NBA for them to treat this story objectively, but they might not have a choice.  It'd be awfully tough for them to bury it under a thousand "boo-ya's" if the federal government says he's telling the truth.  Very interesting...
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 01:58:20 AM »

Quote
ESPN has nothing to do with it.  It's really up to whether the Feds who Donaghy told this too find anything in their inevitable follow-up. If the get refs who corroborate the story, Stern is done.

They have EVERYTHING to do with it. Where do basketball fans go for their info? I'm not saying that Donaghy is right or wrong, I'm saying it won't effect the league one bit. ESPN will do everything in it's power to make sure of it. Too much money involved.

Let's say the feds say he's telling the truth. Basketball fans aren't tuning in to CNN for their sports info, they flip on ESPN and see that it's not a big deal, then they watch the game.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 02:01:14 AM by Devil » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 02:40:34 AM »

Shocking! Gasp!  Oh wait....
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McBa1n
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2008, 03:45:11 AM »

I'm not going to say I know things 100%. I used to 'sharp' bet sports. I NEVER touched the NBA, except when I got a 'good tip' (and those hit at a better than 50% clip, but never perfect). It's obvious there are league mandates to help certain players. Lebron and Kobe? They DON'T travel, although it seems they do EVERY time they touch the ball. _I_ could score 20 in the NBA if I could travel every time. Officials in the NBA are without question the most powerful in any major sport. Sure there has been fixing in other sports, but in the NBA, it's easier to get away with. This 'fixing' goes on at all levels, but in the NBA it's notoriously corrupt and this has been known by bettors for years and years and years.

Seriously, anyone who wants to watch 'basketball' shouldn't waste their time on the NBA. Dirty money avoids the NCAAs more than it does NBA games due to the large amount of scrutiny and smaller betting pools - making it easier to spot when a fix goes in. There are lots of fishy things in line movement with major books - and many games get pulled 'off' the boards due to this.

Most of the 'fixing' is actually picked up by pro handicappers - if there's an anomoly - it's always in the numbers.
I don't doubt one thing Donaghy said - because if you watch games, you can see there is clear fixing going on, and blatent favoratism and horrible 'subjectivity' going on.

Basketball, while making piles of money now, under the Stern era, died IMO. It's not fun to watch. It's not exciting. The players don't really decide games - the calls and non-calls do. There's way too much politics in officiating and there is both illegal fixing and league mandated fixing going on.
/tin foil hat off
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 03:48:55 AM by McBa1n » Logged
WinoMcCougarstein
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2008, 03:55:36 AM »

Quote from: McBa1n on June 11, 2008, 03:45:11 AM

_I_ could score 20 in the NBA if I could travel every time.

No.
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papasmurff
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 04:24:19 AM »

Like it or not the officials can change a game.  The cold truth is the game is played DRASTICALLY differently now than it was 15 years ago.  It is faster and more physical and the officials have allowed the game to do this.  Players now have to wear mouth guards and face protectors...the NBA and the officials have let basketball become a contact sport.  For example, the NBA's new rule on flopping.  Here is the point I would make....for a charge to be a charge that defensive player needs to be in position.  If the offense runs into them then it is a charge...I don't care if the players make it obvious...that is the only way to get the call......

Where the officials come into play is with as physical as the game has become they call hand checks and continuation calls at times in the game that change the flow and rhythm of the game. 

Sorry this seems scattered even as I read it...I am tired.
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 04:45:05 AM »

While the NBA is strictly Sports Entertainment in this day and age and I certainly belive that the NBA would like things to go certain ways. I will need a bit more proof then anything Donaghy can say to try and lighten his sentence.
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McBa1n
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 04:54:01 AM »

Quote from: GatorFavre on June 11, 2008, 03:55:36 AM

Quote from: McBa1n on June 11, 2008, 03:45:11 AM

_I_ could score 20 in the NBA if I could travel every time.

No.
I grew up in the midwest, boy, I can ball! Er shoot 3s heh.
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2008, 05:29:35 AM »

Quote from: McBa1n on June 11, 2008, 04:54:01 AM

Quote from: GatorFavre on June 11, 2008, 03:55:36 AM

Quote from: McBa1n on June 11, 2008, 03:45:11 AM

_I_ could score 20 in the NBA if I could travel every time.

No.
I grew up in the midwest, boy, I can ball! Er shoot 3s heh.

I grew up in the Northwest where we don't call people 'boy.'
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2008, 05:29:55 AM »

Quote from: JCAnejo on June 11, 2008, 04:45:05 AM

While the NBA is strictly Sports Entertainment in this day and age and I certainly belive that the NBA would like things to go certain ways. I will need a bit more proof then anything Donaghy can say to try and lighten his sentence.

Actually, if you read the reports Donaghy isn't gaining anything from this.  He apparently volunteered this information without strings, meaning he didn't try to trade for a better deal.  The reports indicate the Feds have found him cooperative and that he hasn't tried to mislead them.

None of this proves that he is telling the truth, but the NBA better hope he is lying because the Feds are probably already knee deep in an investigation of his claims.  If any of it proves true, the NBA is in a whole lot of trouble.

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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 05:54:28 AM »

Quote from: Sarkus on June 11, 2008, 05:29:55 AM

Quote from: JCAnejo on June 11, 2008, 04:45:05 AM

While the NBA is strictly Sports Entertainment in this day and age and I certainly believe that the NBA would like things to go certain ways. I will need a bit more proof then anything Donaghy can say to try and lighten his sentence.

Actually, if you read the reports Donaghy isn't gaining anything from this.  He apparently volunteered this information without strings, meaning he didn't try to trade for a better deal.  The reports indicate the Feds have found him cooperative and that he hasn't tried to mislead them.

None of this proves that he is telling the truth, but the NBA better hope he is lying because the Feds are probably already knee deep in an investigation of his claims.  If any of it proves true, the NBA is in a whole lot of trouble.



The NBA is already in a world of trouble.  Their ratings have been declining for years based on the thuggish appearance or players.  I read a very interesting article about the ratings of the NBA and the correlation to the amount of tattoos on players.  Now I know many have tattoos, and personally I like most of the ones i see, but on some of the players in the NBA they appear to be thugs...and it hurts their (the NBA) image.  These playoffs have been some of the highest rating ones in recent years due to the very clean cut appearance of the players.

This whole incident just adds another dent to their dwindling reputation.
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 06:04:31 AM »

Quote from: papasmurff on June 11, 2008, 05:54:28 AM

These playoffs have been some of the highest rating ones in recent years due to the very clean cut appearance of the players.

Dude, this is a ridiculous assertion.  I know you're getting it from Whitlock and it was ridiculous when he wrote it.  The ratings are due to the resurgence of Lakers v. Celtics, not because there are fewer tattoos per capita spread between the teams.  Last year's Spurs dominated final had the worst rating in NBA finals history, and the Spurs are as "clean cut" as can possibly be.  Phoenix had great ratings during the D'Antoni era despite Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire's predilection for ink.

It's about storylines and competitiveness.
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2008, 06:17:17 AM »

Quote from: papasmurff on June 11, 2008, 04:24:19 AM

The cold truth is the game is played DRASTICALLY differently now than it was 15 years ago.  It is faster and more physical and the officials have allowed the game to do this.
I don't think it's more physical. The Bad Boys were certainly more physical than any team I've seen since.

And referee favoring has gone on for a long time as well. Michael Jordan had huge help from the refs throughout his career.
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« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 06:46:31 AM »

Quote from: papasmurff on June 11, 2008, 04:24:19 AM

The cold truth is the game is played DRASTICALLY differently now than it was 15 years ago.  It is faster and more physical and the officials have allowed the game to do this.  Players now have to wear mouth guards and face protectors...the NBA and the officials have let basketball become a contact sport. 

Yeah, right. That was a garden-variety personal foul back in the day. Today that's a Flagrant 2 and an automatic ejection.

I'm not sure if the assertion that refs made the game more physical or your tatoos vs. TV ratings correlation is more ridiculous.

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papasmurff
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« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 09:33:09 AM »

All I am trying to say is that officials have allowed the game to be played way more physically then it ever has been.  Then make hand check calls at pivotal points in games or miss actual fouls.  IE. Spurs got fouled at the end of the game down 2 shooting a 3.  All the analysts say yes it was a foul but a good no call because the officials shouldn't decide the game.  I would say a foul is a foul....call it....you aren't deciding the game the person committing the foul cost their team the game.  (But of course this is not logical at all...)

As far as tattoos go....I don't care what people have inked on them...that isn't my point.  My point is that the NBA needs an image make over and it needs to start with the image the players potray of themselves.  If a player wants a full arm sleeve greet good for them, but also good for the players who attempt to maintain a professional appearance by covering their tattoos with the spandex arm sleeves while on the court.

And who cares about about rivalries.  A great point was made on ESPN the other day.  Most of a major target demographic of the NBA (High school and college aged individuals) weren't around for these rivalries when they actually existed, and most couldn't even tell you they existed.  Most of these individuals only tune in to watch major super stars.
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« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2008, 10:11:11 AM »

If the NBA is thuggish, what does that make the NFL?
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2008, 12:58:52 PM »

Freakin' McHale.
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2008, 01:37:29 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 11, 2008, 06:04:31 AM

It's about storylines and competitiveness.

I thought that was wrestling. biggrin
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2008, 02:21:33 PM »

I don't doubt this for a minute.  Ive believed refs have been intentionally affecting games outcomes since the Jordan era.  I don't doubt for a minute that the Spurs were doomed this year, especially when the Celtics got past the Pistons.  I love the rationalization that they didn't call the foul on the three pointer because they don't want to affect the games outcome.  What BS, by not calling the obvious foul, they completely affected the outcome of the game.  The NBA (Stern) wanted a Celtics-Lakers finals and I believe there was a mandate to make sure it happened.  They have built the hype up for the series and knew that they would reap untold millions more from this series than any other.  In a world were people are killed for their basketball shoes, I find it easy to believe that the NBA would "alter" games for millions.  I actually find it hard to believe otherwise.  I'm sure Donahey will be labeled as a vengeance seeker and NBA will pile as much dirt on him as they can.  Still, if they can find the smallest amount of evidence or get anyone to cooborate his claims, the NBA will become the new WWE.
 Oh and the ESPN comment that a Lakers-Celtics series is generationally invalid,  thats bull.  ESPN has hyped and spoon fed us this rivalry all season.  Kids all over wear retro Celtics and Lakers jerseys. Today you have two of the games biggest (most hyped) stars, Rapeboy Kobe and Garnett.  The only difference is that in the Magic/Bird era, players actually decided the games.  Watch some of the old basketball games sometime and then tell me todays game is more physical.  Flagrant foul?  Hah!  Pick your pansy ass up off the floor and play, ya sissy!
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2008, 02:25:13 PM »

I had begun to get back into the NBA with the resurgence of the Pistons under Joe D because he comes across as such a quality guy and the two times I met him he was friendly and giving of his time (I was in high school and he took time to pose for pictures with us while Bill L was shouting for us to get removed from the locker room and calling us little a-holes.  Yes, we did belong in there btw.).  However, the NBA died forever with the season Miami won the championship.  The officiating got them past Detroit and gave them a series they should have been swept in against Dallas.  The calls were so stupidly and obviously consistently made to give Miami the advantage it became a joke and remains one to this day.
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2008, 02:32:50 PM »

Anyone catch the Salon article?

Quote
This column has maintained for years that that's been the NBA's biggest problem. Not the supposed thuggishness of the players, not even the sludgy, defensive-minded play of the 1990s, but the capriciousness of the officiating. One set of rules for stars, another for rookies. The same contact being a foul one time down the floor but not the next, or a foul in the middle of a quarter but not at the buzzer -- like the no-call when Derek Fisher crashed into Brent Barry in the last seconds of the Lakers' Game 4 win over the San Antonio Spurs in this year's Western Conference finals.

The NBA's unwillingness or inability to clean up its officiating, to formulate clear explanations of what constitutes a violation and why and when that violation is called, to achieve consistency in the way calls are made, has left it vulnerable to accusations like those made by Donaghy.
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2008, 03:02:38 PM »

In my opinion refereeing an NBA game is probably the hardest officiating job in sports.  There are literally dozens of decisions to be made on each possession.  It don't think there is a mandate from David Stearn to call things differently based on who the players or teams are.  I do think that the Refs are human and some players do get different calls.  But I doubt that it is anything more than the different ways that each official works a game.  It would be in the NBA's best interest to make it's referee grading and scrutinizing process public ASAP though. Just to restore public confidence. 
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2008, 03:22:40 PM »

I can't speak for how officiating works.  I've never really paid much attention to basketball and it totally left me confused when Jordan came about and he could not foul and yet every thing that happened around him was a foul.  Then Joe Dumars became the Piston's GM and he was such a pleasure to listen to that I started becoming a Pistons fan.  From someone who doesn't understand the game, officiating in the NBA seems like the worst of any sport.  Fix or no fix on teams, it seems obvious that there is a fix on players and it is such a bad fix that it's insulting.  To watch a star player have a one on one with an official and then suddenly you see officiating style change to favor the star even more is offensive to the spectator.  I also can't speak for the NBA and it's fans in general but around here, most generic sports fans are huge into college basketball and pay attention to sometimes ten or fifteen teams or more in preperation for March Madness.  College basketball (March Madness in particular) is second only to U of M football.  That includes not just pro basketball, but the Superbowl, pro football, Hockey, including the cup, golf, NASCAR, baseball...  Everything.  Whereas even with the Pistons going to the conference finals every year, the NBA gets mediocre support.
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2008, 03:24:56 PM »

The NFL, IMO, does the best job with their officials. They grade every official every week based on calls and noncalls and did they make the correct call. They also schlep out the VP of Officiating every week for the media to ask him questions - and he has a segment on the NFL Network breaking down certain plays and how the officials came to their conclusion, if it was correct or incorrect and if incorrect, the interpretation of the rule. To me, you can't get more transparent.

The thing the NFL learned is, sometimes you have to call a penalty EVERY SINGLE TIME before the players start realizing they can't get away with it - and that cleans up the game. One other thing, though, all sports see stars getting calls - I am not sure that can ever be changed - but again, I think the NFL and possibly MLB do a pretty good job of not being as blatently bad as the NBA in protecting stars.
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2008, 03:45:50 PM »

Damn the tuck rule game!
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2008, 04:35:45 PM »

I'm only a sometime watcher of NBA games, that's my perspective.

I noticed last night when they showed Stern at half time, that he was smirking when answering the question about that ref.   That told me everything I need to know.

Here's a guy who, at the very least, has a ref who has been betting on games he is officiating, and been doing it for years.  So even if this gambling ref is lying in all these allegations, Stern has absolutely nothing to smirk about...unless of course it's a "ahaha, they can't prove a thing" self satisfied smirk.
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« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2008, 04:38:20 PM »

While normally Colin Cowherd is a moron, he did have a point.  He said Rod Carew never got a called third strike after a while, because the umps respected him enough to know that he had a great eye.  Stars get a little bit of leeway (in basketball, a lot of leeway) because they're the stars.  They've earned it.  A ref trusts the judgment of a good player.

However, as far as the assertion that there's too much going on during each possession to accurately ref the games, think about the NFL.  There's 22 players on the field using any means necessary to get the job done.  Surprisingly enough, the refs get the job right most of the time.  It's a rare occurrence when a ref decides a game in the NFL.

I echo the sentiments of people who say that they would love to watch basketball, but they just can't get over the officiating.  I'm one of those.  I mean, it's a foregone conclusion that the refs will ref the home team better now.  Does that happen in football?  Baseball?  No!

It disgusts me.  You know, baseball has steroid problems, but the better team still wins.  Football has a lot of problems too, from steroids to cheating, but you can never question the integrity of the competition.  Basketball just makes me angry.
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« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2008, 04:39:05 PM »

Quote from: gameoverman on June 11, 2008, 04:35:45 PM

I'm only a sometime watcher of NBA games, that's my perspective.

I noticed last night when they showed Stern at half time, that he was smirking when answering the question about that ref.   That told me everything I need to know.

Here's a guy who, at the very least, has a ref who has been betting on games he is officiating, and been doing it for years.  So even if this gambling ref is lying in all these allegations, Stern has absolutely nothing to smirk about...unless of course it's a "ahaha, they can't prove a thing" self satisfied smirk.

Stern always smirks.  It's his self-satisfied, "I'm smarter than you" demeanor that's gotten him into this mess to begin with.
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« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2008, 05:49:21 PM »

The blatant traveling non-calls are what bug me the most.  There were multiple occasions last night when they would show a slow motion replay, and have the announcers talking about "this amazing athletic play"...and you can clearly see the guy take 3, 4, 5 steps on his way to the basket.  Hell, there was one Boston possession where you could see Garnett traveling 3 times on the same move (took 3 steps, planted, moved his pivot foot, then took 3 more steps).  All with no call, of course.

If you're going to have the rule, at least pretend to enforce it on occasion.
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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2008, 06:01:10 PM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on June 11, 2008, 04:38:20 PM


However, as far as the assertion that there's too much going on during each possession to accurately ref the games, think about the NFL.  There's 22 players on the field using any means necessary to get the job done.  Surprisingly enough, the refs get the job right most of the time.  It's a rare occurrence when a ref decides a game in the NFL.

In football there are 9 officials watching 22 players.  In basketball 3 officials watch 10.  Also in football each official is responsible for only certain calls.  The referee only watches the QB, the back judge watches the line for holding, etc.  In the NBA all three officials can make any call.  Personally I've refereed basketball games and football games and I think basketball is much harder to do.
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yossar
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2008, 06:30:51 PM »

Football refs also get to stand right in the middle of the field while basketball refs have to stand on the side.  It's hard to argue that it isn't the toughest major American sport to ref.  Bad calls are going to happen, but I would agree that NBA refs could use some more oversight.
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GuidoTKP
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2008, 06:42:28 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on June 11, 2008, 02:21:33 PM

I don't doubt this for a minute.  Ive believed refs have been intentionally affecting games outcomes since the Jordan era.  I don't doubt for a minute that the Spurs were doomed this year, especially when the Celtics got past the Pistons.  I love the rationalization that they didn't call the foul on the three pointer because they don't want to affect the games outcome.  What BS, by not calling the obvious foul, they completely affected the outcome of the game.  The NBA (Stern) wanted a Celtics-Lakers finals and I believe there was a mandate to make sure it happened.  They have built the hype up for the series and knew that they would reap untold millions more from this series than any other.  In a world were people are killed for their basketball shoes, I find it easy to believe that the NBA would "alter" games for millions.  I actually find it hard to believe otherwise.  I'm sure Donahey will be labeled as a vengeance seeker and NBA will pile as much dirt on him as they can.  Still, if they can find the smallest amount of evidence or get anyone to cooborate his claims, the NBA will become the new WWE.
 Oh and the ESPN comment that a Lakers-Celtics series is generationally invalid,  thats bull.  ESPN has hyped and spoon fed us this rivalry all season.  Kids all over wear retro Celtics and Lakers jerseys. Today you have two of the games biggest (most hyped) stars, Rapeboy Kobe and Garnett.  The only difference is that in the Magic/Bird era, players actually decided the games.  Watch some of the old basketball games sometime and then tell me todays game is more physical.  Flagrant foul?  Hah!  Pick your pansy ass up off the floor and play, ya sissy!

Dude, that's pathetic.  Do you really think the Spurs lost this year because of the officiating?  Did the officiating really cause Ginobli to disapear?  Why are mistakes on the last call of the game considered so much more significant than mistakes made before half time (Duncan's blatant travel in the lane) or second-to-last play of the game (failing to reset the clock when Fisher's shot came off the rim, which made the Spurs last possession possible)?  Both teams were beating the crap out of each other all game.  Fisher fouled Barry, but a lot of those types of fouls weren't called during the course of the game.

Also, I think Donaghy's specific claim about Game 6 is utter bullshit (completely apart from how good or bad one thinks the officiating was in Game 6).  I don't believe for a second that Bob Delaney, Dick Bavetta or Ted Bernhardt actually said to him that they put a fix in on a game.  Stop for a second and ponder how shockingly, utterly stupid that claim is.  If Dick Bavetta and Bob Delaney were sitting down for coffee and decide to rig Game 6 (apparently for the good of the league, according to Donaghy), do they really call up Donaghy to brag about it?  Do they really, blatantly say they're going make sure the series goes 7?  If one casually brags about that conduct, then one must assume every single series is fixed, since clearly such conduct would be de rigueur for the playoffs and it would be no big deal to brag about comitting a felony.  If you think the fraternaty of basketball refs are actually that crooked, I suggest you stop watching basketball.  I'd never watch the games if I thought they were rigged.  What would be the point?
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GuidoTKP
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« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2008, 06:46:36 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on June 11, 2008, 05:49:21 PM

The blatant traveling non-calls are what bug me the most.  There were multiple occasions last night when they would show a slow motion replay, and have the announcers talking about "this amazing athletic play"...and you can clearly see the guy take 3, 4, 5 steps on his way to the basket.  Hell, there was one Boston possession where you could see Garnett traveling 3 times on the same move (took 3 steps, planted, moved his pivot foot, then took 3 more steps).  All with no call, of course.

If you're going to have the rule, at least pretend to enforce it on occasion.

I've found that the NBA travelling rule is less frustrating if you imagine it as a two-and-a-half to three step rule.  It's only a two step rule if the player with the ball is moving slowly rather than quickly.  Once I thought of it that way, it seemed to make more sense.  The fans like to watch Jordan-esque driving dunks on the basket.  It's hard to make those moves with a strict two step rule.
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Eightball
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« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2008, 06:59:51 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 11, 2008, 06:01:10 PM

In football there are 9 officials watching 22 players.

There are?  I count seven on the field:  Referee, Umpire, Head Linesman, Field Judge, Line Judge, Side Judge, Back Judge.

Quote from: yossar
It's hard to argue that it isn't the toughest major American sport to ref.

Hockey seems harder to me, in that it's 3 refs for 12 players on the field, and it's faster moving.  Oh and there are sticks...
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Devil
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« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2008, 08:06:46 PM »

I will say this: The NBA is the only sport where you can, with relative confidence, predict what the officials will do before the game.

How many games, in this year's playoffs, has the road team gotten to the line more than the home team?

How many teams that got to the line more lost?

You probably won't be able to say that in the NFL or NHL.



 
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yossar
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« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2008, 08:47:10 PM »

Quote from: Eightball on June 11, 2008, 06:59:51 PM


Hockey seems harder to me, in that it's 3 refs for 12 players on the field, and it's faster moving.  Oh and there are sticks...

I said "major" and "American"  icon_razz

I dunno, though. In hockey you aren't calling a foul every time someone gets tapped on the elbow. The sheer volume of times the ref has to intervene in basketball and the subtlety of most of the calls (were the defender's feet set to take the charge or was he a split second late?) means they're going to miss a lot.
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