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Author Topic: [RP] President says "suffer" to gas prices  (Read 9390 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: April 23, 2006, 10:06:30 AM »

http://www.adelphia.net/news/read.php?ps=1010&id=12746391&_LT=MNEW_APN1DCCL1_UNEWS
http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/22/news/economy/oil_aaa/index.htm?cnn=yes

Quote
SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) ó As oil prices hit a record, drivers worried about $3-a-gallon gas and politicians feared the impact on elections, President Bush on Friday acknowledged the pain but seemed resigned to being able to do little about it.

"I know the folks here are suffering at the gas pump," the president said while promoting his competitiveness initiative at the Silicon Valley headquarters of Internet networking company Cisco Systems Inc. "Rising gasoline prices is like taking a ó is like a tax, particularly on the working people and the small-business people."

But to address the immediate problem, Bush offered only a pledge that "if we find any price gouging it will be dealt with firmly."


I'm getting pretty damned sick of our dunce-cap wearing president.  Maybe his handlers havn't told him yet, but gas prices drive a good chunk of our economy.  Maybe a '*shrug* deal with it' attitude isn't the best approach?  Here is the biggest bitch....

Nothing that would affect the price of oil is affecting the price of oil.  There has been no change in supply or demand that would justify a jump to 75 bucks a barrel (currently) and certainly not to jump it to the 90+ dollars a barrel that the news is flapping about. (Way to sow fear!)  This article, and several others cite the same reasons - Iran's nuclear ambitions, oil disruption in Nigeria, and tight U.S. gasoline supplies.  First off, we get exactly zero oil in Iran.  You didn't see the price of gas climb during our attacks in Somalia.  You didn't see the price of oil climb during the conflicts in South America (where we DO get our oil).  This whole thing stinks to high heaven and I'm pretty sick of it.  The prices suck, but the horseshit that is driving it stinks far worse.

/rant
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2006, 10:24:17 AM »

Gas willl come back down in a week or two becuase I heard they are going to look into the oil companies gouging.  Which means.  The price will come down, and they wont find that the caompnies gouged.  Like always.
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2006, 10:33:49 AM »

I agree with you KD.  I also hate the fact that after a large jump, the price drops just enough so people calm down but never back to what it was before.   I highly doubt Bush cares one way or the other.  It's not like he's ever going to pay for gas.
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2006, 10:52:12 AM »

Quote from: "Nth Power"
I agree with you KD.  I also hate the fact that after a large jump, the price drops just enough so people calm down but never back to what it was before.   I highly doubt Bush cares one way or the other.  It's not like he's ever going to pay for gas.


His "Freedom Car" plan isn't coming together very quickly either...we spend more in the cost of shipping the oil barrels here than in any attempts to circumvent the need for oil.
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2006, 02:18:39 PM »

Does OPEC, the world's largest cartel, have anything to do with this?  To the best of my knowledge, there is little that we can do when they decide to cut supply.
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2006, 03:24:56 PM »

Quote from: "President Bush"
Bush offered only a pledge that "if we find any price gouging it will be dealt with firmly."


*snicker* yeah, just like the way he dealt firmly with the whole Plame affair (which he vowed to do but is now weaseling his way out of).

Considering how much Bush & Cheney (and Condi and several others in the Cabinet) augment their income with energy industry investments, I sincerely doubt they are truly concerned about this.
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2006, 07:33:13 PM »

Quote from: "Clay"
Does OPEC, the world's largest cartel, have anything to do with this?  To the best of my knowledge, there is little that we can do when they decide to cut supply.


Yes, Bush's entire presidency has been helping his friends (Arabia, Dubai [UAE], Kuwait, Qatar), take total control of OPEC.

Here is the Big Lie which OPEC was created to put forth: OPEC, a foreign monopoly, is setting the price for ALL oil sold in the world.  Not just the price OPEC members sell for, but also the price domestic oil is sold for.

OPEC was created to be a "cat's paw".  OPEC provides something like 1/3 of America's oil.  So give me a good reason on why they are setting the price on 100% of it...  The reason is because those selling the 2/3 can then blame this other group, who is outside the country, for the high prices.

High gas prices are also linked to the plumetting value of the USD.  Just compare the prices of EVERYTHING to what it was six years ago.  It is ALL significantly higher.  Just remember not to call it 'inflation', because inflation doesn't exist, and "The Bush Boom" saved America from the New Great Depression!
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2006, 08:48:10 PM »

Quote from: "Clay"
Does OPEC, the world's largest cartel, have anything to do with this?  To the best of my knowledge, there is little that we can do when they decide to cut supply.


I wish it did, but supply hasn't been cut at all.  This is all price hikes through fear.
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2006, 09:08:05 PM »

Can someone find documentation on exactly how much, if at all, the hurricanes last year affected the Gulf's oil supply? Despite a tendency to not saying anything of value, talk radio pointed out that the price as it is right now is accurate based on taxes and the price of oil per barrel. That's fine but when/why did the price per barrel double? Was this more gradual? Was it overnight? Are all the answers to my questions in the links provided above that I have yet to click on? smile
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2006, 10:09:39 PM »

listening to the radio this morning, they talked with a researcher who said that china uses 8 million barrels a day, or something like that.

The number I would like to see are average barrels used in each country, against what the Oil Companies say they are producing.
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2006, 10:59:48 PM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
High gas prices are also linked to the plumetting value of the USD.  Just compare the prices of EVERYTHING to what it was six years ago.  It is ALL significantly higher.  Just remember not to call it 'inflation', because inflation doesn't exist, and "The Bush Boom" saved America from the New Great Depression!


I'm really dreading when the dollar inevitably crashes hard and we see a real depression again.  frown  I'm expecting it within the next 1-4 years.  The only thing that can stop it now is some major hush-hush work behind the scenes with international trading partners (China and the EU primarily).
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2006, 11:10:14 PM »

Well with him in his final term and his family being in the oil business for no telling how ling now, I dont see why he'd care. He's making a fortune right now along with his kinfolk and he does'nt have to worry with re-election.
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2006, 12:26:39 AM »

It seems his party is starting to try and do some damage control though, with re appointing people now.  But Wow.  it got out of hand. I didnt vote for bush, and thats beside the point.  I really tried to find things that I could connect with, in him, and it didnt happen.  

I know a lot of people who did vote for him, and said they were sorry they did.  But for those people, while I do feel a little for them.  His campaign was more of the same.  So.  What did you think you were getting?
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2006, 02:24:14 AM »

I voted for Bush for many reasons, including his stance on "the war on terror"

But these gas prices are absurd, and i'm starting to regret that vote because it's finally starting to hit my wallet hard. I just wonder how much different it might be had Kerry won.

Hard to say.
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2006, 04:30:01 AM »

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, theyíre Red, White and Blue.
And when the band plays Hail to the Chief,
They point the cannon right at you!

It ainít me, it ainít me, I ainít no senatorís son.
It ainít me, it ainít me; I ainít no fortunate one.

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, donít they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale!

It ainít me, it ainít me, I ainít no millionaireís son, no.
It ainít me, it ainít me; I ainít no fortunate one, no.

Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war
And when you ask them, how much should we give,
They only answer, "More, more, more!"
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2006, 04:39:26 AM »

BTW, I find it incredibly amusing that they are doing the White House org chart shuffle this late in the game.  

This is pretty much the time when unsuccessful presidents become completely sidelined; the "Lame Duck".  And Bush has been a lame duck for everything except about six months, and he messed that up, too.  So to be changing things now just shows how out of touch with any kind of reality this WH is, and always has been.

Nobody liked him going in, and now nobody trusts him.  He has been caught in SO many lies, I have no idea how even the most hard core of his supporters can convince themselves that he has even a shred of credibility.

Impeachment, at this point, is a necessity just so there can be some kind of prevention of him doing more damage to this country.  I have serious doubts that this country can ever recover from the damage he has done to it.
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2006, 04:40:43 AM »

Because you say so?

Where's your credibilty?
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 04:42:33 AM »

How many countries did I invade?
How many lies have I told to justify it?

1. He didn't catch Osama.  Until he does, he has NO right to even MENTION 9/11.
Not catching Osama = failure of the WoT.
End of story.

2. How is the search for those WMD going?  Find anything yet?
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 04:45:51 AM »

Invade my ass. Hussein's Iraq had it coming.

Afghanistan was hardly an 'invasion' unless you're a Taliban/AlQaeda supporter.
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 04:47:07 AM »

Quote
End of story.


Here's a tip: Get over yourself.
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2006, 05:28:03 AM »

Quote from: "Zekester"
Invade my ass. Hussein's Iraq had it coming.

Afghanistan was hardly an 'invasion' unless you're a Taliban/AlQaeda supporter.


1. so by what legal authority did the US invade Iraq?

2. it WASN'T an invasion?  Than WTF was it?  Is there an alternative term for taking your troops and inserting them uninvited into another country?
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2006, 06:59:06 AM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
Quote from: "Zekester"
Invade my ass. Hussein's Iraq had it coming.

Afghanistan was hardly an 'invasion' unless you're a Taliban/AlQaeda supporter.


1. so by what legal authority did the US invade Iraq?

2. it WASN'T an invasion?  Than WTF was it?  Is there an alternative term for taking your troops and inserting them uninvited into another country?


US troops were invited by the Iraqi people and received as saviors.smile
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2006, 09:08:46 AM »

Except for those Iraqi citizens that are busy blowing us (and the other citizens) to hell and back.
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2006, 11:21:47 AM »

Quote from: "Zekester"
Here's a tip: Get over yourself.

Here's another tip:  Feel free to discuss political issues here all you want - that's fine.  Feel free to disagree vigorously with other posters - that's also fine.  But do not take the discussion in these types of threads in a personal direction and start slamming and/or calling out other posters.  That is not fine here.
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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2006, 12:36:15 PM »

Here is why you are paying more for oil.  It is both easy and popular to blame the President when you might as well blame the global economy.

Much of the growth in demand Ė about 40 per cent says the EIA #150 will come from Asia. Its daily oil fix is expected to double by 2025, thanks mainly to rapidly growing economies in China and India.

In 2004, China passed Japan as the world's second-largest consumer of oil. It ate up an average of 6.63 million barrels of oil every day Ė about twice what it produces. Its oil imports doubled between 1999 and 2004.

China's demand for oil is expected to continue to increase by five to seven per cent a year. If that happens, China will surpass the United States as the world's largest consumer of oil by 2025.

Similarly, India's oil needs are expected to grow by four to seven per cent a year. In 2004, it consumed two million barrels a day.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/oil/supply_demand.html
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2006, 01:03:22 PM »

Actually plenty more oil could be produced in this country.Many of this country's oil wells are only allowed to produce just a few days a month.
The president could do a lot more about the oil prices if he wanted.
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2006, 01:13:01 PM »

Ok, if we are paying higher prices at the pump for oil because in 20 years china might be using WAY more oil.  Thats ridiculous.  Not only would I hope that in 20 years we would have some solution to this problem, but I cant believe that we are paying for something for 20 years in the future.  That's insane.

As I said.  I want to see number on barrels in coutries used, against barrels being produced by the oil companies.


*edit*

Here's why i want to see this number.  They are saying that the price of crude is going up becuase of a shortage.  more countries using more oil, the summer trips here in the US, the switchover of the companies from winter blend to summer blend all this stuff.  Somehow they are throwing in that the price is higher because some companies are producing more E85.  The ethanol mix.

I really dont buy any of this.  isnt crude like the easiest of the oils to refine?  Suddently, in the last two weeks China started using oil?  

I hear lots of talk of Nigeria and stuff like that.  How much actual oil do we get from Nigeria?  A consultant on the radio the other day said prices are higher because of the nuclear threat from Iran.  Huh?  Why?  Becuase they might be switching to nucleear power?  I dont get that one.

but look.  Numbers.  no one shows us real numbers.  How many barrels of oil are we using here in the US.  not how much stock, which is what the web sites I found are showing.  On top of that the stocks are foreign traded as well.  I want a number of barrels used on average for all the world.  Looked at against what ALL the oil companies are producing.  

Now, if the number being consumed is more than the number being produced.  I can see the hike in prices.  You want people to slow usage so as to not have to tap into reserves.  I would think any smart oil company, if that were the case, would break into a couple reserve depots to bring thier own price down.

Thats not the case in the states though.  Those officials at the companies dont pay for gas, they dont care.  It gets put into company cost.  So all they have to worry about is making more money.

During the oil Shortage last year, didnt the oil companies STILL make hundreds of millions of dollars in PROFIT.  Not just MAKE hundred of millions of dollars.  They PROFITED.  Which means that after they paid employees, bills, ETC.....they took home in the book, hundreds of millions of dollars.  That doesnt seem like a shortage to me.

While many businesses in this country are struggling to pay bills, or sr stay open.  Familes cant afford to pay gas bills during the winter becuase they are loosing jobs.  The gas companies made out like bandits.  Some people may just say.  Well I guess your in the wrong industry.  I guess yu would use that argurment.  But.  Then why have other industries?  Why not have everyone work under one umbrella.  We all get paid the same, live the same, wear the same clothes.  Oh wait.  Thats communism.

Anyways.  i want numbers.  I dont want to hear about well in 2025 China will use more oil.  Or researchers telling me there is a shortage, but not showing me where, or with numbers.  I drive down the freeway, down on the south side of detroit.  Through the industrial district.  Speedway has a refinery/depot down there.  AT LEAST 25 HUGE holding tanks.  While I dont know whats in the ones that I could see from the freeway, it really made me think about, "what shortage?"  Where?  How many barrels?  I dont like GWB either.  This is beyond him.  It stretches back to government letting companies, big companioes, do as they please becuase of the money involved for them.  With the crackdown on monies given to the government, of course they care about it more.
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2006, 01:21:30 PM »

Quote from: "GGMark"
Ok, if we are paying higher prices at the pump for oil because in 20 years china might be using WAY more oil.  Thats ridiculous.  Not only would I hope that in 20 years we would have some solution to this problem, but I cant believe that we are paying for something for 20 years in the future.  That's insane.

As I said.  I want to see number on barrels in coutries used, against barrels being produced by the oil companies.


Bingo.  They are hedging their bets on FUTURE profits.  In what industry can you charge the 20 year from now usage today?  You don't see that with your electric or natural gas companies - they charge on actual consumption per month.
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2006, 01:28:54 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
Quote from: "GGMark"
Ok, if we are paying higher prices at the pump for oil because in 20 years china might be using WAY more oil.  Thats ridiculous.  Not only would I hope that in 20 years we would have some solution to this problem, but I cant believe that we are paying for something for 20 years in the future.  That's insane.

As I said.  I want to see number on barrels in coutries used, against barrels being produced by the oil companies.


Bingo.  They are hedging their bets on FUTURE profits.  In what industry can you charge the 20 year from now usage today?  You don't see that with your electric or natural gas companies - they charge on actual consumption per month.


Actually, i think in some places the electric companies, DO charge on future usage.  it doesnt happen often anymore though.  I have seen a few news items on electric companies sending out bills to people for like 1500 dollars for one month. Becuase when they looked at the usage, the person happened to be running something heavy on electric that day.  So it screwed up the estimate.  Stupidity really on the companies part.  but I think it still happens.

If we are still using, and dependant on Oil in 20 years.  Thats sad.
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2006, 04:17:34 PM »

Part of the reason we are paying higher prices at the pump (which has nothing to do with the cost per barrel) is because the USA is producing as much gasoline as it can.  

As for why this is, one would have to assume it's the short sighted way the industry has always worked.  There hasn't been a new refinery built in this country for almost 20 years, and the existing ones are using the technology of at least 30 years ago.

They are making record profits, and not reinvesting any of it into their business.  And guess how the Republicans punish them?  By giving them billions of dollars of our tax dollars, and free oil from public lands.
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2006, 04:43:26 PM »

kickban bush plz
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2006, 05:21:19 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "Zekester"
Here's a tip: Get over yourself.

Here's another tip:  Feel free to discuss political issues here all you want - that's fine.  Feel free to disagree vigorously with other posters - that's also fine.  But do not take the discussion in these types of threads in a personal direction and start slamming and/or calling out other posters.  That is not fine here.


And unbreakable referring to me as a "sheep" and an "asshole" in the other thread is not personal?

Come on, man......hide your bias and act like a true mediator and moderator.
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2006, 05:24:14 PM »

Quote from: "Victoria Raverna"
Quote from: "unbreakable"
Quote from: "Zekester"
Invade my ass. Hussein's Iraq had it coming.

Afghanistan was hardly an 'invasion' unless you're a Taliban/AlQaeda supporter.


1. so by what legal authority did the US invade Iraq?

2. it WASN'T an invasion?  Than WTF was it?  Is there an alternative term for taking your troops and inserting them uninvited into another country?


US troops were invited by the Iraqi people and received as saviors.smile


Sure you haven't changed your mind and flip-flopped yet? I heard you were good at that.

There were UN rules that Iraq was supposed to abide by, yet didn't....like violating restricted airspace. Our own Congress approved the war, BTW
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2006, 05:48:45 PM »

Quote from: "Zekester"
Quote from: "warning"
Quote from: "Zekester"
Here's a tip: Get over yourself.

Here's another tip:  Feel free to discuss political issues here all you want - that's fine.  Feel free to disagree vigorously with other posters - that's also fine.  But do not take the discussion in these types of threads in a personal direction and start slamming and/or calling out other posters.  That is not fine here.


And unbreakable referring to me as a "sheep" and an "asshole" in the other thread is not personal?

My comment in this thread was directed at you because you made the statement in this thread.  My comment in the other thread was directed at both of you because of what both you and unbreakable were saying in that thread.  Also I happened to read this thread before I read the other.

Quote from: "Zekester"
Come on, man......hide your bias and act like a true mediator and moderator.

For what it's worth (probably not much) it was just a couple of weeks ago that unbreakable was accusing me of being biased against him.
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« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2006, 06:00:53 PM »

People need to start being realistic about what we SHOULD be paying for gas versus what we have been paying.  Adjusted for inflation, we are still paying less than what we were paying in the late '70's.  Most of Europe pays the equivalent of $6 per gallon or more.  

The truth is we have subsidized gasoline.  If we were true capitalists, we'd be paying more.

I'm looking forward to higher prices.  It's about time the average american started buying the car that makes sense for their actual needs and for the environment rather than buying what looks "cool" and expecting the federal government to make sure it's affordable.
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« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2006, 06:02:16 PM »

Quote from: "unbreakable"
As for why this is, one would have to assume it's the short sighted way the industry has always worked.  There hasn't been a new refinery built in this country for almost 20 years, and the existing ones are using the technology of at least 30 years ago.

They are making record profits, and not reinvesting any of it into their business.  And guess how the Republicans punish them?  By giving them billions of dollars of our tax dollars, and free oil from public lands.


The reason that there haven't been any new refineries built is because of the prohibitive costs put onto building them by the environmentalists.  Because of environmentalists we can't drill in ANWR, you can't drill in the Gulf of Mexico or off the California coast, and you can't build more refineries to refine the oil.  Yes, we need to look at future technologies, but we should try to do what we can with what we have.  We even have NY Times foreign affairs columnist Thomas Friedman hoping that oil reaches $100 a barrel.
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Zarkon
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2006, 06:39:26 PM »

Part of the problem on the rising gas costs and rising electricity, is that while gas and electricity costs have doubled or more so, nearly tripling in the past five years or so, our wages have not.  

A year ago, I was paying about $1.89 for a gallon of gas and the electricity in my parents house was costing no more than $180 a month.  I was making $8.15 an hour.

This year?  I'm paying $2.78 for gas and the electric bill has spiraled up as high as $350-375.  My pay?  $8.55 an hour.

If you're raising the prices on what people are having to buy but not raising their wages, you start to have problems.  

Screw inflation on things over 30 years ago.  People don't think that way.  They think a year or two or maybe ten away at most.  You raise the gas by nearly $2 a gallon in less than 5 years, people notice that, and notice that their paycheck isn't increasing nearly as fast.
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2006, 07:37:26 PM »

Quote from: "Zekester"
There were UN rules that Iraq was supposed to abide by, yet didn't....like violating restricted airspace. Our own Congress approved the war, BTW


The USA has as much right to enforce the UN's rulings as a cop from Indiana has to write speeding tickets to somebody driving in Australia.

The question is whether the war violated international law.  And the answer is that it did, quite blatantly.  The problem is that there is no enforcement mechanism (which is why Bush opposes the idea of a World Court so much; his Crime Family would be thrown into prison REALLY quickly).

Did the war violate US law?  Yes, on very many levels.  The problem now is that the checks and balances of our government have been circumvented.  Our congresspeople are walking in lockstep with Bush, just because he is 'A Republican'.  In their eyes, it's ok to violate the law, so long as you do it while tithing to the GOP.

BTW: Bush knew there were no WMD.  Which is exactly why Iraq was attacked.
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2006, 07:48:09 PM »

Quote from: "Zarkon"
If you're raising the prices on what people are having to buy but not raising their wages, you start to have problems.


And this is exactly the biggest problem with the lower and middle class today.  Sure, pay has risen nicely for the upper class during this presidency, but the "recovery" from the economic downturn, while profiting businesses and the upper class quite nicely, has actually seen a decrease in the reality of wages for workers.

Even though pay has technically gone up (as Zarkon notes with his pay increase over the past few years) for most workers, the actual wages they earn as measured by value of income earned versus value of expenses has, in fact, decreased.  This is the first economic "recovery" in which this has occurred.

Which leads me to the conclusion that they prematurely declared the recovery this time.  We're in for more rocky times before we truly get a chance to recover from our damaged economy.
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« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2006, 07:56:05 PM »

What he said can be reflected in the contrasting income figures.  AVERAGE income has increased, while MEDIAN income has plummeted.

Shit rolls downhill.

Also, the spin on the job data still doesn't obscure one fact: the employment figures.  There are about the same number of people employed TODAY as there was... in 2000!  And it was actually LOWER until late last year!

What that means, statistically speaking, is that every person entering the job market was a 1:1 contribution to the jobless rate.
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