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Author Topic: [R] Again with the Intelligent Design!  (Read 1531 times)
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SpaceLord
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« on: December 01, 2004, 06:02:10 PM »

Bah!!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/30/MNGVNA3PE11.DTL

Someone needs a better science edumication. And it's



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Gryndyl
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2004, 06:08:51 PM »

Yeah, I saw that article last night and experienced some of the highest levels of frustration and infuriation I've felt from a news article...well...since the election, really. We seem to be moving towards another dark age.  One can only hope that the teachers forced to include ID in their curriculums spend their class time shredding it mercilessly.
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kathode
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2004, 06:49:27 PM »

My general reaction to these kinds of news stories runs along these lines:



Full comic for those curious.
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warning
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2004, 06:58:57 PM »

I'll take this moment to pimp my favorite website on controversial religious matters:

http://www.religioustolerance.org

And here's the link to their index on Various Theories on the Origin of Life, the Earth and the Rest of the Universe.

I think this website should be required reading for anyone who wants to discuss controversial religious matters.
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SpaceLord
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2004, 07:08:06 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
I'll take this moment to pimp my favorite website on controversial religious matters:

http://www.religioustolerance.org

And here's the link to their index on Various Theories on the Origin of Life, the Earth and the Rest of the Universe.

I think this website should be required reading for anyone who wants to discuss controversial religious matters.


It is a great site, warning. But much of this stuff belongs in a religion or  philosophy class, not basic, highschool science.
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warning
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2004, 07:26:54 PM »

Quote from: "SpaceLord"
Quote from: "warning"
I'll take this moment to pimp my favorite website on controversial religious matters:

http://www.religioustolerance.org

And here's the link to their index on Various Theories on the Origin of Life, the Earth and the Rest of the Universe.

I think this website should be required reading for anyone who wants to discuss controversial religious matters.


It is a great site, warning. But much of this stuff belongs in a religion or  philosophy class, not basic, highschool science.

I agree completely.

The reason I was referring to the site is that I believe it should be required reading by anyone on both sides of the argument before they discuss the issue.  Particularly on a message board.   biggrin

I didn't mean to imply it should be read by students in high school science classes.  They should be taught evolution in my opinion.

I didn't clarify any of this very well in my original post.
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RunningMn9
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2004, 07:29:36 PM »

Quote from: "SpaceLord"
It is a great site, warning. But much of this stuff belongs in a religion or  philosophy class, not basic, highschool science.


And more importantly, not in a Biology class.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2004, 07:31:02 PM »

There are problems with both sides of the arguement, enough so that it only proves one thing: That people only have clues, but no one can definitively point to one or the other and say, "Yes, that's the truth right there." Though when scientists found the Hobbit in the South Pacific, that got me really curious about whether Tolkien wasn't quite telling us everything. slywink
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Eightball
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2004, 07:38:59 PM »

SCOTUS has a case on point already about this.

Edwards v. Aguillard, 1987

School district can do what it wants but as soon as one parent whose child is in that district brings this suit forward, the district court will blow that school district decision out of the water.
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Fireball
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2004, 07:44:22 PM »

Evolution is a fact, there is no denying that. There is no true debate over this among the informed.

Religious nonsense has absolutely no place in science classes. Want to teach the Genesis story in a class about creation myths? Knock yourself out. But anyone who supports polluting our science classes with "intelligent design" or any other sort of bullcrap along those lines is precisely the sort of religious fanatic who is a tangible danger to this nation.
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mb737
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2004, 07:54:28 PM »

All those ID/creationist folks are doing is showing their support for Lucy Lawless' appearance on the Simpsons!

  "Whenever anything happens that doesn't make sense a wizard did it."  

  Or in this case an invisible magic sky pixie.
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Balshazaar
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2004, 07:57:51 PM »

Here's an interesting National Geographic tidbit on the matter
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2004, 08:01:53 PM »

Quote from: "mb737"
All those ID/creationist folks are doing is showing their support for Lucy Lawless' appearance on the Simpsons!

  "Whenever anything happens that doesn't make sense a wizard did it."  

  Or in this case an invisible magic sky pixie.


"But... you're flying! Xena can't fly!"
"I'm not Xena. I'm Lucy Lawless."
"Ohhhh..."

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Grievous Angel
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2004, 08:17:26 PM »

From the story:

Quote
The way they used to teach the origin of the species to high school students in this sleepy town of 1,800 people in southern Pennsylvania, said local school board member Angie Yingling disapprovingly, was that "we come from chimpanzees and apes."


If it was a parent saying this, it would be one thing, but a school board member? How are they supposed to judge evolution when they don't understand it?
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RunningMn9
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2004, 08:40:17 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
There are problems with both sides of the arguement, enough so that it only proves one thing: That people only have clues, but no one can definitively point to one or the other and say, "Yes, that's the truth right there." Though when scientists found the Hobbit in the South Pacific, that got me really curious about whether Tolkien wasn't quite telling us everything. slywink



That is irrelevant.  Science isn't professing to teach anyone the Truth(tm).  They are trying to teach modern Biology - and evolution is the unifying principle of modern Biology.

I don't have a probem with teaching ID in public schools - but it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with Biology.  Teach it in a class on Comparative Cosmologies or something.
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zinckiwi
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2004, 08:58:44 PM »

Don't American schools have Religious Education? I don't mean school prayer, I mean actual academic study. We did three years' compulsory RE, in which examined just about all the "major" religions, sometimes looking at the history of them, sometimes doing a compare-and-contrast thing.
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Sepiche
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2004, 09:09:55 PM »

Quote from: "zinckiwi"
Don't American schools have Religious Education? I don't mean school prayer, I mean actual academic study. We did three years' compulsory RE, in which examined just about all the "major" religions, sometimes looking at the history of them, sometimes doing a compare-and-contrast thing.

Nope.  That's a reasonable idea, but I don't think people over here would ever be able to come up with a course that made all the activist groups happy... ignoring the people who would hate the idea because the schools get federal funds.

In other words I think the idea is far too reasonable and goes much to far in building cultural understanding for the US to adopt. Tongue

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Graham
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2004, 03:11:00 AM »



I don't think we've beat it enough!
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