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Author Topic: [P] Kerry documentry before the election  (Read 3039 times)
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Lee
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« on: October 13, 2004, 03:09:50 AM »

(Hope I am doing this politics thing right. smile if not, just please let me know. )

I am sure we have all heard about it. A media company is requiring all 60 of it's stations to show a negative documentry about Kerry's post war actions. I think it would be safe to say it's anti-Kerry.

Republicans are saying it's only fair, after all M. Moore did a whole movie about it and the normal press is anti Bush (some GOP spokesman said this on CNN, I don't have a link).

To me this is obviously different. These are public airways and the owner of the company in question is blantantly pro-Bush. I don't care if they do show it, I just think they should just F911 right after the other documentry. Each should get equal public air time. Otherwise what happens next? Every public media owner shoves their political views down our throats?
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noxiousdog
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2004, 03:11:09 AM »

Isn't this just equal time for the 60 Minutes fiasco?
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Lee
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2004, 03:13:30 AM »

Quote from: "noxiousdog"
Isn't this just equal time for the 60 Minutes fiasco?


The 60 Minutes thing didn't get any where near as much attention as the Swift Boats did.
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CSL
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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2004, 03:16:56 AM »

I think this is just another reason why the need for campaign reform is needed.
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noxiousdog
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2004, 03:17:25 AM »

:?:

I thought SwiftBoats was mostly a cable/internet phenomenon.
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noxiousdog
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2004, 03:18:23 AM »

Quote from: "CSL"
I think this is just another reason why the need for campaign reform is needed.


This, unfortunately, is an outgrown of campaign reform.  If it weren't for McCain-Feingold, you wouldn't see 527s
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Lee
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2004, 03:19:17 AM »

Quote from: "noxiousdog"
:?:

I thought SwiftBoats was mostly a cable/internet phenomenon.


Now it is, when it was new you couldn't watch a news show that wasn't covering it. Now everytime they release a new ad it gets national press attention also.
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Grievous Angel
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2004, 03:19:19 AM »

This is also the same company that forbit its stations to air a Nightline episode that listed the soldiers killed in Iraq because it was unpatriotic.

I'm confused. I did think there were certain rules about public airtime in place to prevent stuff like this from happening. Like if you air a 20-minute Bush ad, you have to allow Kerry 20 minutes as well. I recall some stations in California stopping running Different Strokes when Gary Coleman ran for governor last year for this very reason. How exactly does airing a two-hour criticism skirt those regulations?
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Lee
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2004, 03:24:02 AM »

Quote from: "Grievous Angel"
I'm confused. I did think there were certain rules about public airtime in place to prevent stuff like this from happening. Like if you air a 20-minute Bush ad, you have to allow Kerry 20 minutes as well. I recall some stations in California stopping running Different Strokes when Gary Coleman ran for governor last year for this very reason. How exactly does airing a two-hour criticism skirt those regulations?


They are claiming it is "news," not an ad. That's how they can do it.
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rrmorton
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2004, 03:24:19 AM »

That's horse puckey.

Let a Republican/pro-Bush documentarian make a good enough movie to earn its audience in theaters the way Fahrenheit 9/11 did. Unless I'm missing some part of the story (link?) this seems sketchy.

I think Moore has a lot more solid ground to stand on since he made a doc about a President and his four years in office as opposed to a doc about a presidential candidate. The former can at least be looked at as a film about "history" or "current events" (no matter how sketchy or biased) while the latter comes off as not much more than a glorified election smear campaign.

 I'm no huge Moore supporter and F9/11 has a ton of problems, but I watched part of it again the other day on DVD and I really get a kick out of the sequence where Bush lands on the Mission Accomplished aircraft carrier and they play the theme from The Greatest American Hero.

"Believe it or not, I'm walking on air..." biggrin biggrin
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CSL
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2004, 03:24:32 AM »

IMHO candidates should be limited in funding with each candindate getting a set amount of money......say $10 million as well as limited air time. In addition they should be required to participate in several NON-SCRIPTED debates, instead of this scripted bullshit. I think we can all agree it is bullshit.

And in conclusion we must kill all lobbying groupos,

That is all!

- CSL "I love Vodka"
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noxiousdog
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2004, 03:39:40 AM »

Quote from: "CSL"


And in conclusion we must kill all lobbying groupos,

That is all!

- CSL "I love Vodka"


Free Speech!  (except for lobbyists)
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CSL
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2004, 03:52:15 AM »

Quote from: "noxiousdog"
Quote from: "CSL"


And in conclusion we must kill all lobbying groupos,

That is all!

- CSL "I love Vodka"


Free Speech!  (except for lobbyists)


Lobbyists are a plague, much like lawyers. I have strong views on the issue. But it would be best if I discussed this on a night I haven't been drinking.
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Balshazaar
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2004, 04:02:09 AM »

You should have watched the Frontline episode on Bush and Kerry tonight.  It was good, and very thorough.
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Siljanus
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2004, 04:02:15 AM »

Quote from: "Grievous Angel"


I'm confused. I did think there were certain rules about public airtime in place to prevent stuff like this from happening. Like if you air a 20-minute Bush ad, you have to allow Kerry 20 minutes as well. I recall some stations in California stopping running Different Strokes when Gary Coleman ran for governor last year for this very reason. How exactly does airing a two-hour criticism skirt those regulations?


I believe that Bush is not mentioned so this is not a "Bush" ad per se.  And as Lee said, there is that claim that it is "news".

If it doesn't violate FCC regs or current campaign laws then they could air what they please since Sinclair (name of the company) owns the stations.  Yes, the airwaves are held in trust by the Gov for the people but again if no FCC rules are being violated and they are abiding by the letter of the campaign laws then they can do this.  

On certain nights there's some religious programming on the mainstream channels.  There's some nasty hate-filled crap on some of those programs.  Should that be banned?

It's certainly a "documentry" I have no interest in watching since I'm voting for the other guy.  I also think it's a veiled attack ad.   But does my dislike of this mean that the owner of a group of stations doesn't have the right to air it?  Is it enough to discern intent?  How many other documentaries with possibly better sources and reporting can be viewed as an "attack ad" by someone on some part of the political spectrum?
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Fireball
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2004, 04:34:52 AM »

The problem with this activity is that it gives one person or group of persons, the board of Sinclair, a staggeringly larger amount of "speech" than it does other Americans. Campaign finance laws were designed to prevent that. If this doesn't violate them, it certainly runs rampant all across the spirit of the law.

If FCC regulations permit rich media owners to put whatever they want on the air in order to sway the election, then they regulations should be revised to block it. I'm not sure how you would word it, but there must be a reasonable standard that can be drawn that will allow legitimate news agencies to cover the campaigns, and will let candidates advertise, but which won't allow the wealthy to effectively use their wealth to drown out all other opinion. I'm not saying this stupid documentary will do that, but it certainly raises the specter of that sort of thing happening.

This is also a staggeringly cowardly act by Sinclair, but that's what we've come to expect from them. If they had any real courage, they'd let the opposing (ie anti-Bush) point of view also be expressed. I bet Michael Moore could whip up 55 minute cut of F9/11 just for them.

I hope Kerry has his lawyers watch this thing closely. If so much as one thing is presented falsely, I hope he nails them to the wall with a defamation of character suit.

As to electoral impact, I'm not certain it'll have much of one. The worst they could dredge up would be the sort of out-of-context stuff the Not-So-Swift Veterans threw at Kerry this August. He's already bounced back from that, and repeated attacks are rarely potent.
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Sepiche
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2004, 02:47:09 PM »

I almost cried when I heard some right wing pundit defending this the other day by saying (paraphrasing here):
"If they didn't want this type of thing to happen, the law makers should not have voted to allow media consolidation." :|

Yikes... thanks big brother... I'm glad you cleared that up for me.  frown

In better, more recent news it looks like the FCC doesn't like it at least... about time they stopped cracking down on swearing and boobies and looked into more important issues:
http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=25213

s
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2004, 03:12:54 PM »

They offered Kerry equal time to come on after the movie to rebute it.   That is all they have to do.  Kerry's decision not to is his own stupid fault.
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Captain Caveman
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2004, 03:30:47 PM »

Quote from: "Eco-Logic"
They offered Kerry equal time to come on after the movie to rebute it.   That is all they have to do.  Kerry's decision not to is his own stupid fault.


If hypothetically, a documentary aired on Bush's cocaine-using, drunk-driving, draft-dodgling past, do you think he'd want to come on afterwards to rebute it? The mere presence of a candidate attempting to refute the "facts" of the documentary provides an air of legitimacy to the charges and casts the candidate in a defensive light.
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malchior
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2004, 04:52:52 PM »

Quote from: "Sepiche"
I almost cried when I heard some right wing pundit defending this the other day by saying (paraphrasing here):
"If they didn't want this type of thing to happen, the law makers should not have voted to allow media consolidation." :|

Yikes... thanks big brother... I'm glad you cleared that up for me.  frown

In better, more recent news it looks like the FCC doesn't like it at least... about time they stopped cracking down on swearing and boobies and looked into more important issues:
http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=25213

s


Unfortunately, that is just the statement of one of the five FCC commissioners...his statements aren't binding and he has been a vocal critic of the Bush administration's directive about media consolidation.  This benefits Bush who controls the FCC, why would we expect them to do anything about it?
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2004, 05:17:38 PM »

Oh no, its the P of R&P!

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Siljanus
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2004, 05:26:07 PM »

Quote from: "Sepiche"

In better, more recent news it looks like the FCC doesn't like it at least... about time they stopped cracking down on swearing and boobies and looked into more important issues:
http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=25213

s


Interesting.  How many commissioners are on the FCC and I'm curious how the rest of them feel about this?
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YellowKing
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2004, 05:41:48 PM »

It may surprise some of you coming from a rabid anti-Kerry man like myself, but I don't think the documentary should be aired either. The Republicans who are saying "it's only fair" now will be the ones complaining about how unfair it is in 2008 when their candidate of choice is being targeted. I don't think you improve political discourse by playing tit for tat.
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Siljanus
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2004, 06:42:03 PM »

Out of curiousity, if it was a non-election year would any FCC restrictions still apply if this was shown?
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2004, 07:27:26 PM »

First off let's look at who would benefit from more bush and powell like FCC rulings,.. WhY.. its  companies like SinClair who want to control entire markets and dictate what large chunks of people get to see,read,  and hear.  So first its nothing but self interest. Secondly , to disguise this as news is absurd.  There is nothing new here. Its more of the KIll the messenger crap that those who can't deal with the truth concerning Vietnam.  Please, of course we broke international law there, "free fire zones' in their very nature are against all international law and are crimes against humanity.  Kerry didn't declare these zones, US government did, don't shoot the messenger people.

 Overall this is just one example of why having media controlled by a very few,is a VERY bad and DANGEROUS path to undertake.  As YK states, sure this time it may benefit your side, next time it may not, in the end we all lose.
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Fireball
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« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2004, 09:20:15 PM »

Yes, we definitely need to break up these ever-growing media companies. It's absurd to have a corporation that can through fiat of the politics of its ownership screw around with an election like this. No one company should be able to own more than 5 or 6 TV or radio stations. Period.
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naednek
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« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2004, 02:06:24 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
(Hope I am doing this politics thing right. smile if not, just please let me know. )

I am sure we have all heard about it. A media company is requiring all 60 of it's stations to show a negative documentry about Kerry's post war actions. I think it would be safe to say it's anti-Kerry.

Republicans are saying it's only fair, after all M. Moore did a whole movie about it and the normal press is anti Bush (some GOP spokesman said this on CNN, I don't have a link).

To me this is obviously different. These are public airways and the owner of the company in question is blantantly pro-Bush. I don't care if they do show it, I just think they should just F911 right after the other documentry. Each should get equal public air time. Otherwise what happens next? Every public media owner shoves their political views
down our throats?


They are playing F 9-11 the night before the election on PPV.  Seriously
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Balshazaar
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« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2004, 02:16:59 AM »

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