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Author Topic: [Olympics] China's doing a bang up job...  (Read 4339 times)
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2008, 02:48:11 AM »

I'm not trying to say "forget about this little girl!" I'm just saying, this whole thing is on top of some other, much more shady shit on China's part.
I don't mean to hell with a little girl's feelings, but imagine the pain of the thousands of little girl's who's parents are in prison for political activism, etc.

One thing that IS totally outrageous is my spelling. Wtf?
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« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2008, 03:26:35 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 02:46:23 AM

I just felt that coming into this thread with both guns blazing, basically bitching that we were ugly americans for getting upset over a little girl being told by a figure of authority that she wasn't fit to be seen when there were wars going on was insulting.

Not to mention, as you pointed out, the article discusses Chinese dissatisfaction with the incident, not really anyone else's.  (At least when I read the story when it was posted).
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« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2008, 03:29:01 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 02:46:23 AM

I just felt that coming into this thread with both guns blazing, basically bitching that we were ugly americans for getting upset over a little girl being told by a figure of authority that she wasn't fit to be seen when there were wars going on was insulting.

Alright alright. I have to confess I've been trolling you up a bit, laying it on a bit thick, but I came across too serious. I do think it's pretty messed up what the did to the girl, especially considering what the spirit of the games are about. China is spending far to much time painting a glossy picture when everyone already knows it's fake. I do think they are not used to all the media coverage, especially since most of it is not under their control. I hope china takes a lot of these criticisms to heart and steers their country in a more positive direction, but I think like all governments, they have short memories and will go back to the same old same old once the games are over.
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2008, 04:08:23 AM »

While we can look at this as China being bad, we can also look at this as China trying to do something good.

China has a very big population so it is not hard to find another singer. Instead of that, they like the girl enough to give her the chance to be heard on the most important event in the history of modern china. Now if they let the girl sing on stage, her picture will be shown to the world and people will make fun of her look which will end up harming the child. So they found a compromise, let the girl sing but don't show her to the world.

With this decision they tried and failed to protect the child. Now the singer will be remembered as someone who is so ugly as a child that she can't show herself in public to sing.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM »

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.
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hepcat
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« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2008, 12:21:32 PM »

Quote from: scubabbl on August 13, 2008, 03:29:01 AM

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 02:46:23 AM

I just felt that coming into this thread with both guns blazing, basically bitching that we were ugly americans for getting upset over a little girl being told by a figure of authority that she wasn't fit to be seen when there were wars going on was insulting.

Alright alright. I have to confess I've been trolling you up a bit, laying it on a bit thick, but I came across too serious. I do think it's pretty messed up what the did to the girl, especially considering what the spirit of the games are about. China is spending far to much time painting a glossy picture when everyone already knows it's fake. I do think they are not used to all the media coverage, especially since most of it is not under their control. I hope china takes a lot of these criticisms to heart and steers their country in a more positive direction, but I think like all governments, they have short memories and will go back to the same old same old once the games are over.

And I probably overreacted a bit.  Let's shake and agree to disagree on some things, but agree that a little girl shouldn't be treated in such a way.   slywink


Quote
I do think they are not used to all the media coverage, especially since most of it is not under their control.

that's actually a pretty good assessment of what's going on with China right now, imho.

Quote from: Eduardo X on August 13, 2008, 02:48:11 AM

I'm not trying to say "forget about this little girl!" I'm just saying, this whole thing is on top of some other, much more shady shit on China's part.
I don't mean to hell with a little girl's feelings, but imagine the pain of the thousands of little girl's who's parents are in prison for political activism, etc.

One thing that IS totally outrageous is my spelling. Wtf?

i was just taken aback at the callous nature of that statement, especially given your usual sympathetic and humanist nature.  the moment we start trivializing even the smallest crimes against another human by focusing on the "larger picture" is the moment we've started that dangerous slide down the slippery slope towards that which we rail against.  i know the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few, but i also fear the consequences of ignoring the needs of the few when they can be addressed with simple acknowledgment.

as for the spelling, i was just all fired up.   icon_wink  god knows my love of not capitalizing and an unnatural love of ellipses makes me the biggest hypocrite when it comes to complaining about another person's grammar. 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 02:44:14 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2008, 12:28:49 PM »

Quote from: scubabbl on August 13, 2008, 12:52:39 AM

I don't know the exact numbers and am far to American to look them up, so lets say our population is 250,000,000. If roughly 80% disapprove of our government's administration, that's like, 200,000,000 people who disapprove. Yet the administration continues to run rampant over our rights. We allow them to do whatever they want with no more punishment than a severe finger wagging.
God I hate relativists.

**Rest of the anti-relativism rant deleted due to the guy admitting he's a troll. Lame.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 12:31:24 PM by cheeba » Logged
joeyjazz
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« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2008, 01:14:55 PM »

Quote from: Shkspr on August 12, 2008, 11:41:33 PM

The most outrageous thing about this whole mess is the fact that had they put the girl whose voice was used out on the stage, every internet troll and their dog would be mocking the kid because her teeth look awkward. 

People would never mock a singer for having slightly crooked teeth.
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rickfc
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« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2008, 02:33:36 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on August 13, 2008, 12:28:49 PM


**Rest of the anti-relativism rant deleted due to the guy admitting he's a troll. Lame.

LOL
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YellowKing
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« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2008, 03:17:26 PM »

We mock a lot of people (that supermodel has sharp elbows!), but I do find the concept of mocking a 7-year old kid for her slightly crooked teeth rather bizarre. I don't think I've ever met a 7-year old that didn't have weird looking teeth. They're losing them right and left at that age, adult teeth are coming in next to baby teeth, etc.
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LordMortis
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« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2008, 03:22:46 PM »

Quote from: joeyjazz on August 13, 2008, 01:14:55 PM

Quote from: Shkspr on August 12, 2008, 11:41:33 PM

The most outrageous thing about this whole mess is the fact that had they put the girl whose voice was used out on the stage, every internet troll and their dog would be mocking the kid because her teeth look awkward. 

People would never mock a singer for having slightly crooked teeth.

Concured.
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Zero
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« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2008, 03:50:57 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.

Help me understand why its cheating?  I heard that on the news last night as well - but if they performed with the same grace, difficulties, and performance that rated them as Gold medal winners - why is that cheating?  If they allowed 14 year olds - its not the 14 year olds fault that they can out perform everyone else and beat out all the competition (including the US, which IMO wasn't that great, especially their floor exercises). 
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« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2008, 03:56:29 PM »

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 03:50:57 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.

Help me understand why its cheating?  ... If they allowed 14 year olds...

I don't understand the question. It's cheating because they don't allow 14 year olds.
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hepcat
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« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2008, 03:59:03 PM »

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 03:50:57 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.

Help me understand why its cheating?  I heard that on the news last night as well - but if they performed with the same grace, difficulties, and performance that rated them as Gold medal winners - why is that cheating?  If they allowed 14 year olds - its not the 14 year olds fault that they can out perform everyone else and beat out all the competition (including the US, which IMO wasn't that great, especially their floor exercises). 

I was actually curious about that as well.  One article explained that kids that age don't understand the pressure and are therefore less likely to screw up due to the associated mental anguish of performing for such a large audience when such high stakes are at risk.  Seemed a bit shaky as far as excuses go, to be honest.  however, rules are rules and they were put into play for a reason and should be followed.  if these accusations had been leveled against a non-host nation, it probably would have been investigated by the IOC.
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« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2008, 04:05:24 PM »

Quote from: coopasonic on August 13, 2008, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 03:50:57 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.

Help me understand why its cheating?  ... If they allowed 14 year olds...

I don't understand the question. It's cheating because they don't allow 14 year olds.

OK - looked it up some more.  I understand both your comments now and where its coming from (click here to read the article).  I thought that they allowed 14 year olds to compete - but it sounds like they have to be 16 (at least turn 16 during the olympic year)...and now I understand the controversy surrounding their age.
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Zero
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« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2008, 04:08:50 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 03:59:03 PM

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 03:50:57 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.

Help me understand why its cheating?  I heard that on the news last night as well - but if they performed with the same grace, difficulties, and performance that rated them as Gold medal winners - why is that cheating?  If they allowed 14 year olds - its not the 14 year olds fault that they can out perform everyone else and beat out all the competition (including the US, which IMO wasn't that great, especially their floor exercises). 

I was actually curious about that as well.  One article explained that kids that age don't understand the pressure and are therefore less likely to screw up due to the associated mental anguish of performing for such a large audience when such high stakes are at risk.  Seemed a bit shaky as far as excuses go, to be honest.  however, rules are rules and they were put into play for a reason and should be followed.  if these accusations had been leveled against a non-host nation, it probably would have been investigated by the IOC.

I think its interesting that in other sports (eg. swimming) they can be 14 years old.  I don't know the logic behind it all - but it makes interesting reading.  If China did "doctor" the documents to make them 16 - well, its China smile  From personal experience, I know that in some countries - documents (official government ones) can be changed rather easily.
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Larraque
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« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2008, 04:33:31 PM »

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 04:08:50 PM

Quote from: hepcat on August 13, 2008, 03:59:03 PM

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 03:50:57 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.

Help me understand why its cheating?  I heard that on the news last night as well - but if they performed with the same grace, difficulties, and performance that rated them as Gold medal winners - why is that cheating?  If they allowed 14 year olds - its not the 14 year olds fault that they can out perform everyone else and beat out all the competition (including the US, which IMO wasn't that great, especially their floor exercises). 

I was actually curious about that as well.  One article explained that kids that age don't understand the pressure and are therefore less likely to screw up due to the associated mental anguish of performing for such a large audience when such high stakes are at risk.  Seemed a bit shaky as far as excuses go, to be honest.  however, rules are rules and they were put into play for a reason and should be followed.  if these accusations had been leveled against a non-host nation, it probably would have been investigated by the IOC.

I think its interesting that in other sports (eg. swimming) they can be 14 years old.  I don't know the logic behind it all - but it makes interesting reading.  If China did "doctor" the documents to make them 16 - well, its China smile  From personal experience, I know that in some countries - documents (official government ones) can be changed rather easily.

I guess there's something about gymnastics that makes it easier to perform when you're younger - more flexible and stuff. Shorter. Less cleavage to get in the way. I mean - most gynmasts have to retire by the time they're in their 20s... You don't hear about 30 year old gymnasts at the olympics very often.
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« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2008, 04:39:15 PM »

No you don't... my wife is 35 and performed at the elite level through college, but is now a walking bundle of scar tissue due to multiple knee & shoulder surgeries smile 

Though proving the exception to every rule, Oksana Chusovitina (Germany) is competing in this year's Olympics, and she's 33

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oksana_Chusovitina
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« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2008, 04:46:18 PM »

From what I understand, the age rule was intended to protect younger gymnasts from extreme physical strain while their bodies are still growing. Sort of like not allowing kids to throw curve balls until a certain age.
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« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2008, 07:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on August 13, 2008, 04:46:18 PM

From what I understand, the age rule was intended to protect younger gymnasts from extreme physical strain while their bodies are still growing. Sort of like not allowing kids to throw curve balls until a certain age.

I think it was possibly to try and stop the sport becoming a child sport which at one point it appeared to be doing where Gymnasts were effectively over the hill when they hit 16 - certainly the current gymnasts seem more interesting than yesteryear - imho.

All Gymnasts will still train from a very young age - China in particular start there divers and gymnasts from 4. Lots of scary video stuff on youtube regarding their training regime.

I don't buy the physical strain argument - diving has uk's Tom Daley - at 14 he is throwing himself off a board and hitting the water at around 40mph. He even said in an interview that after 2012 he will have to look to lower boards because the body starts to fall apart after so much pressure. The sport is generally considered an adult province due to the forces involved.

Tals
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 07:24:41 PM by Tals » Logged

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Pyperkub
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« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2008, 11:55:44 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on August 12, 2008, 07:01:55 PM

Quote from: hepcat on August 12, 2008, 06:52:05 PM

...of coming across as gigantic scumbags.


It doesn't surprise me, unfortunately...

Yeah, they both do kind of go along with the manifesto:

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

This is how communist China would act.  Is it bullshit?  Hell yes, but unlike western culture the individual does not reign supreme.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2008, 01:33:50 AM »

More Chinese bullshit.
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Tals
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« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2008, 06:17:42 AM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on August 14, 2008, 01:33:50 AM


I don't think that is tbh. The games really would be a total fiasco for China if every protester was allowed to do this. They know how China works and hide behind there nationality to pull it off. I think the English students who were held were just ejected from the country.

Tals
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2008, 06:46:32 AM »

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 04:05:24 PM

Quote from: coopasonic on August 13, 2008, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Zero on August 13, 2008, 03:50:57 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on August 13, 2008, 11:57:23 AM

While we're on the subject of Chinese scumbags, how about the fact that the US found proof before the games that at least two of their female gymnasts are 14, 2 years below the minimum Olympic age?

Enjoy your gold medal, cheaters.

Help me understand why its cheating?  ... If they allowed 14 year olds...

I don't understand the question. It's cheating because they don't allow 14 year olds.

OK - looked it up some more.  I understand both your comments now and where its coming from (click here to read the article).  I thought that they allowed 14 year olds to compete - but it sounds like they have to be 16 (at least turn 16 during the olympic year)...and now I understand the controversy surrounding their age.

While the communist throwaway old tradition so maybe this don't apply to Chinese in modern China. Some Chinese tradition count age starting from 1 on the day a baby is born. So a chinese which is actually 14 can claim she is 15 or can turn 16 in the year of the games. But of course Olympic rule doesn't use old Chinese tradition way of age counting.smile

BTW, I always hate it when my parents count that way. Make me feel older.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_age_reckoning
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 06:49:42 AM by Victoria Raverna » Logged
Pyperkub
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« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2008, 05:08:20 PM »

Interestingly enough, China's news agency in November and May had at least one of the gymnasts listed as 13 and 14, but then (IMHO) realized that would make her ineligible and changed it, according to this CNN article.

Quote
Just nine months before the Beijing Olympics, the Chinese government's news agency, Xinhua, reported that gymnast He Kexin was 13, which would have made her ineligible to be on the team that won a gold medal this week.

In its report Nov. 3, Xinhua identified He as one of "10 big new stars" who made a splash at China's Cities Games. It gave her age as 13 and reported that she beat Yang Yilin on the uneven bars at those games.

Of course, the original page has been censored, er removed for factual inaccuracies.
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