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Author Topic: [NEWS] Shooting at Fort Hood  (Read 1726 times)
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Isgrimnur
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« on: November 05, 2009, 09:05:22 PM »

WaPo

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At least seven people were reported killed in a shooting Thursday at Fort Hood, an Army post in central Texas that is home to two divisions.

Local news media said at least a dozen people were wounded in the shooting and that one gunman was in custody. Military officials were said to be investigating unconfirmed reports of a second gunman.

The attack occurred about 1:30 p.m. Central time at Fort Hood's Soldier Readiness Center, where troops are processed before deployment and upon their return from combat tours abroad, cable news networks reported.

Military officials said the post was locked down after the shooting.
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 09:09:56 PM »

Sucky news  icon_confused
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 09:10:03 PM »

Someone went all 'Full Metal Jacket' over there.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 09:15:58 PM »

The local paper (Austin American-Statesman) has a Twitter feed at http://twitter.com/fthoodshootings

CNN now reporting 9 killed.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 09:29:51 PM by Isgrimnur » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 09:38:11 PM »

I always want to believe military bases are among the safest places to be (I went to school on Army bases in Seoul, Korea in 1979-'83, and I always felt safe on-post), but I'm guessing you just kind of let your guard down cause you think you're in a well guarded area. I'm just curious if it's a couple guys "going Full Metal Jacket" as PR said, or if it's some sort of nasty domestic terrorism attack like Oklahoma City.

I don't know if I'd read too much into early estimates. They can be wildly inaccurate (as with Columbine, and with Virginia Tech here in my state), and the rumor mill gets out of control with tragedies like this, even the media tends to get caught up in it.  tear

That said, the Twitter page there's reporting the shooters were in military uniforms of some sort, and one was apparently still at large.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 09:42:18 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 10:00:48 PM »

The Army just said that the shooters were military. Seriously, WTF?
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 10:14:47 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on November 05, 2009, 10:00:48 PM

The Army just said that the shooters were military. Seriously, WTF?

Not surprising at all.
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 10:18:46 PM »

The shooter was apparently a Major.

Edit: he's been identified as Major Malik Nadal Hasan. link
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 10:30:43 PM by Captain Caveman » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 10:26:57 PM »

Reports are that one shooter has been killed, two men are in custody, and a fourth is still at large.
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 11:04:00 PM »

From the Twitter feed: "Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison says that officer who did shooting was upset about being deployed to Iraq."
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 11:18:19 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 05, 2009, 11:04:00 PM

From the Twitter feed: "Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison says that officer who did shooting was upset about being deployed to Iraq."

and also a sociopath?  it takes more than just being upset to go and shoot up your fellow soldiers, especially those who've just returned.  why couldn't he just take the cowards way out and skip the end of the FMJ scene in the bathroom?

can you say 'firing squad'? 
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2009, 01:00:34 AM »

Watched MSNBC on TV just now. As a Virginia resident who knows a lot of Va. Tech graduates, I just about spat up my dinner.

Apparently the officer was an Army doctor who was born here in Virginia, and earned his medical degree at Virginia Tech (!), probably quite a few years ago. They explained that depending on how much the Army pays towards your education, you're expected to serve a certain number of years in active duty. At least 6, the correspondent indicated. If the guy was 39-40 as they say, I can't really hazard a guess on when he got his degree.

Apparently he was due to head over to Iraq in November. The correspondent emphasized soldiers usually got a generous amount of notice, so he probably knew for some time that he would be heading over then.

He was a psychiatrist though, not a surgeon or something. Chances are, he wasn't going to be on combat duty in Iraq per se, he would've been counseling soldiers there to try to help them.

Apparently he really did not want to serve in the Middle East, Iraq in particular. It's not clear on if serving Afghanistan would've been any more acceptable to him. Presumably all that will be in the papers tomorrow along with speculation he took some sort inspiration from the 2007 Va. Tech shooting.

There's some Texas senator's aide who was at the base when the shooting happened. He claimed to have heard semi-automatic weapon fire and not just pistol fire. But at this point reports seem to indicate they cleared the couple other suspects and think there was only one gunman. The correspondent remarked about extra-ammo clips being available, but why some psychiatrist would know enough to obtain stuff like that, who knows. And why an educated, trained army psychiatrist would commit such a massacre, rather than just plain old deserting, or you know, anything that wouldn't hurt other people, it just boggles the mind.

If I'm repeating anyone else's post, apologies. I'm just so bowled over by the Virginia connections, I'm just plain old stunned.  icon_frown

Because it was on an army base that was quickly locked down, it's taking a lot longer for details to get out than in other mass shootings (the MSNBC correspondents were saying anyway).
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 01:02:55 AM by Blackjack » Logged

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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 03:33:49 AM »

The two other suspects were released.   And the shooter is alive and likely to survive.
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 04:53:05 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 06, 2009, 03:33:49 AM

The two other suspects were released.   And the shooter is alive and likely to survive.

Lets hope not. I know every villain is the hero of his own story, but those nine other guys didn't get a chance to end theirs properly.
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 06:10:47 AM »

I wish I could zip ahead in time a couple of weeks so I could see what their/his motives were. I don't think this was a Islam thing, I think it was a nutjob thing.
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2009, 07:17:31 AM »

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 06, 2009, 06:10:47 AM

I wish I could zip ahead in time a couple of weeks so I could see what their/his motives were. I don't think this was a Islam thing, I think it was a nutjob thing.

definitely seems like it to me, the fact that he had converted to Islam is likely to get picked up in a negative light though.  Shame really.
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2009, 02:19:43 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on November 06, 2009, 07:17:31 AM

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 06, 2009, 06:10:47 AM

I wish I could zip ahead in time a couple of weeks so I could see what their/his motives were. I don't think this was a Islam thing, I think it was a nutjob thing.

definitely seems like it to me, the fact that he had converted to Islam is likely to get picked up in a negative light though.  Shame really.

Well given that he was allegedly yelling 'allah akhbar' while killing innocent people, i can't see how else it would be picked up.
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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2009, 02:24:03 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on November 06, 2009, 02:19:43 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on November 06, 2009, 07:17:31 AM

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 06, 2009, 06:10:47 AM

I wish I could zip ahead in time a couple of weeks so I could see what their/his motives were. I don't think this was a Islam thing, I think it was a nutjob thing.

definitely seems like it to me, the fact that he had converted to Islam is likely to get picked up in a negative light though.  Shame really.

Well given that he was allegedly yelling 'allah akhbar' while killing innocent people, i can't see how else it would be picked up.

source?

If nothing other than "people saying", thats exactly what fuels misunderstandings... IF he indeed did so, well then all bets are off
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« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2009, 02:26:50 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 06, 2009, 02:24:03 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on November 06, 2009, 02:19:43 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on November 06, 2009, 07:17:31 AM

Quote from: dbt1949 on November 06, 2009, 06:10:47 AM

I wish I could zip ahead in time a couple of weeks so I could see what their/his motives were. I don't think this was a Islam thing, I think it was a nutjob thing.

definitely seems like it to me, the fact that he had converted to Islam is likely to get picked up in a negative light though.  Shame really.

Well given that he was allegedly yelling 'allah akhbar' while killing innocent people, i can't see how else it would be picked up.

source?

If nothing other than "people saying", thats exactly what fuels misunderstandings... IF he indeed did so, well then all bets are off

MSNBC.

And yeah, right now it's hearsay:

Quote
Cone also said he heard first-hand accounts from witnesses on the scene that the suspect shouted "Allahu Akbar," which means "God is Great" in Arabic, before he opened fire at the Soldier Readiness Center at Fort Hood.
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« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2009, 02:29:58 PM »

Sorry. Link

Also, i totally botched the spelling on 'Allahu Akbar’ ...
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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2009, 03:41:38 PM »

thanks for the link :-)

It's really a horrible story...Danish news are following it as well, but didnt hear anything like what you described, thats why I asked.

Oh, out of curiosity, what meaning would it have IF he had yelled Allahu Akbar? He could still just be a crazy guy...I mean, I havent heard anything about Al-Queda(sp?) doing this, or any other terrorist organisation actually...
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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2009, 09:33:58 PM »

Thank goodness for those two police officers (including the wounded police woman credited with ending the rampage) getting on scene as fast as they did. My understanding is post-Columbine a lot of police forces switched away from "set up outside the scene and wait for SWAT to arrive" to "move aggressively into the environment" to try to stop the assailants in situations like this as quickly as possible (though that certainly didn't seem to happen at Va. Tech in 2007).

There's so many witnesses in this, I imagine we'll keep hearing different stories from different people, that he yelled something, or that he didn't say anything at all.
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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2009, 09:39:49 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 06, 2009, 03:41:38 PM

thanks for the link :-)

It's really a horrible story...Danish news are following it as well, but didnt hear anything like what you described, thats why I asked.

Oh, out of curiosity, what meaning would it have IF he had yelled Allahu Akbar? He could still just be a crazy guy...I mean, I havent heard anything about Al-Queda(sp?) doing this, or any other terrorist organisation actually...

You've never heard of a terrorist saying "Allahu Akbar"? Listen to/watch any Al-Qaeda recording.
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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2009, 09:47:05 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on November 06, 2009, 09:39:49 PM

Quote from: Razgon on November 06, 2009, 03:41:38 PM

thanks for the link :-)

It's really a horrible story...Danish news are following it as well, but didnt hear anything like what you described, thats why I asked.

Oh, out of curiosity, what meaning would it have IF he had yelled Allahu Akbar? He could still just be a crazy guy...I mean, I havent heard anything about Al-Queda(sp?) doing this, or any other terrorist organisation actually...

You've never heard of a terrorist saying "Allahu Akbar"? Listen to/watch any Al-Qaeda recording.

As well as, oh, every observant Muslim...

Quote
This phrase is recited by Muslims in numerous different situations. For example, when they are happy or wish to express approval, when they want to praise a speaker, during battles, and even times of extreme stress or euphoria.
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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2009, 09:49:19 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 06, 2009, 09:33:58 PM

Thank goodness for those two police officers (including the wounded police woman credited with ending the rampage) getting on scene as fast as they did. My understanding is post-Columbine a lot of police forces switched away from "set up outside the scene and wait for SWAT to arrive" to "move aggressively into the environment" to try to stop the assailants in situations like this as quickly as possible (though that certainly didn't seem to happen at Va. Tech in 2007).

There's so many witnesses in this, I imagine we'll keep hearing different stories from different people, that he yelled something, or that he didn't say anything at all.

From the feeds I'm reading, she attended a course specifically meant to do that at the ALERRT Center, which was expanded in response to the VT shootings. 
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2009, 09:56:47 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 06, 2009, 09:47:05 PM

Quote from: Teggy on November 06, 2009, 09:39:49 PM

Quote from: Razgon on November 06, 2009, 03:41:38 PM

thanks for the link :-)

It's really a horrible story...Danish news are following it as well, but didnt hear anything like what you described, thats why I asked.

Oh, out of curiosity, what meaning would it have IF he had yelled Allahu Akbar? He could still just be a crazy guy...I mean, I havent heard anything about Al-Queda(sp?) doing this, or any other terrorist organisation actually...

You've never heard of a terrorist saying "Allahu Akbar"? Listen to/watch any Al-Qaeda recording.

As well as, oh, every observant Muslim...

Quote
This phrase is recited by Muslims in numerous different situations. For example, when they are happy or wish to express approval, when they want to praise a speaker, during battles, and even times of extreme stress or euphoria.


Completely true, but to say that terrorists don't say it?
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 10:06:02 PM »

I don't see that statement being made by anyone. 
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2009, 10:21:21 PM »

Not to mention there's a lot of reports about the kind of abuse muslim soldiers have been getting in the army.  People crack under even simply bullying, I know I did, now imagine that kind of pressure from military men where you have no recourse, your commanders do nothing, and you're about to be shipped to a place where they consider you a traitor and you're the first target.

None of this justifies what happened, but you'd think the military would be more concerned about these morale problems.  But, I suppose that's what happens when your recruiting guidelines are thrown out the window.
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2009, 10:31:10 PM »

Quote from: Turtle on November 06, 2009, 10:21:21 PM

None of this justifies what happened, but you'd think the military would be more concerned about these morale problems. 

You mean like starting a study to find the reasons behind soldier suicides?

Quote
(Army News Service, Oct. 29, 2008) - The Army and the National Institute of Mental Health together have begun a five-year, $50-million research program into the factors behind Soldier suicides and how to prevent them, Secretary of the Army Pete Geren told reporters today at the Pentagon.
...
This effort will be followed by an Army Science Board study with the goal of identifying correlated risk factors and recommending actionable mitigation strategies and practices to prevent suicide. At the same time, the secretary said the Army would not wait for the end of the strategy to implement mitigation strategies, but would put those strategies into practice as they make themselves clear.

The shooter cleaned out his apartment and left a goodbye note.  This was his attempt at suicide by cop.  I would certainly say that this certainly falls under the scope of what the Army has been working on. 
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« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2009, 11:01:21 PM »

I don't understand why he join the military to begin with. Surely he must have realized that sooner or later he was going to be stationed in the mideast somewhere.
I mean, it's sort of like joining the army back in my day and being surprised you got orders for Vietnam.
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« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2009, 11:08:48 PM »

From what I've heard, he was enlisted for eight years and got the government to pay for school.  Even assuming that it was just for medical school, he's been in since before the start of either current conflict.  As a psychiatrist, I don't know what the current deployment rate is of that particular field.  It's not like he was going to be expected to shoulder an M-16 and hop on an Osprey for patrols.

Quote
His cousin, Nader Hasan, told news organizations that Hasan, 39, was opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and had been trying to leave the Army.
...
Hasan received his medical degree from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.
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« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2009, 11:21:14 PM »

The thing I keep thinking everytime I read about this tragedy: This Physician wasn't able to heal himself.  icon_frown
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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2009, 11:22:29 PM »

It kills me that one of his victims was a 21 year old who had been trained in bomb defusal (and man do we need more of those technicians overseas right now).
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.pearson/index.html
Quote
Sheryll Pearson told CNN affiliate WLS-TV in Chicago that her son been training to deactivate bombs. He had just received an anthrax inoculation and was looking forward to coming home, she added.

Military officials told the family that Pearson was shot three times in the spine and chest and died on the operating table, she said.
Ain't fair.  tear
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« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2009, 11:23:19 PM »

From speaking with a number of people who have gone into the field of psychology, a fair number of them are in severe need of treatment themselves.  The usual reason is to try and find out why they are so screwed up and to get the quid pro quo free treatment from each other.
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« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2009, 12:20:30 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 06, 2009, 10:06:02 PM

I don't see that statement being made by anyone. 

Am I misreading Razgon's quote?
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« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2009, 01:43:39 AM »

Quote from: Teggy on November 07, 2009, 12:20:30 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 06, 2009, 10:06:02 PM

I don't see that statement being made by anyone. 

Am I misreading Razgon's quote?

I believe you are. 

Quote
Oh, out of curiosity, what meaning would it have IF he had yelled Allahu Akbar?
 

That's not the same as saying that terrorists don't say it.  I would imagine most regular forces for most Muslims in foreign armies say it.  I don't consider that line any different than the line in medieval movies where the knight screams "For God and country!" before charging into battle. 

Obviously the situations involved are highly different.  I am not trying to equate anything other than the use of a phrase, which is commonly used by people of the Islamic faith.
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« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2009, 02:01:01 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 07, 2009, 01:43:39 AM

Quote from: Teggy on November 07, 2009, 12:20:30 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 06, 2009, 10:06:02 PM

I don't see that statement being made by anyone. 

Am I misreading Razgon's quote?

I believe you are. 

Quote
Oh, out of curiosity, what meaning would it have IF he had yelled Allahu Akbar?
 

That's not the same as saying that terrorists don't say it.  I would imagine most regular forces for most Muslims in foreign armies say it.  I don't consider that line any different than the line in medieval movies where the knight screams "For God and country!" before charging into battle. 

Obviously the situations involved are highly different.  I am not trying to equate anything other than the use of a phrase, which is commonly used by people of the Islamic faith.

I'm confused, I must be missing something. Immediately after that sentence he says:

Quote
I mean, I havent heard anything about Al-Queda(sp?) doing this, or any other terrorist organisation actually...

If he's not saying that he hasn't heard any terrorist organization saying the phrase, what is he saying?
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« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2009, 02:54:58 AM »

Many murderers invoke god to justify their actions from killing abortion doctors to mom's killing their kids.  is it really important if he said allahu akbar?  Reading the accounts of people who knew him reveal someone who seems to have been withdrawn most of his life.

Of more importance to me is how the Army missed all the signs.  How did he keep a security clearance?
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« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2009, 04:01:50 AM »

Quote from: Teggy on November 07, 2009, 02:01:01 AM


Quote
I mean, I havent heard anything about Al-Queda(sp?) doing this, or any other terrorist organisation actually...

If he's not saying that he hasn't heard any terrorist organization saying the phrase, what is he saying?

I apparently have been reading it wrong...   icon_confused  I thought he was saying that he hadn't heard of any al-Qaeda involvement in this case.  My (multiply-compounded) mistake and my apology.
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« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2009, 12:34:46 PM »

Sorry, all I meant was, it could be a fairly normal thing for a moslim to yell, ie not neccesarily him being a terriorist, but just a crackpot. I just dont like labelling things before we know what it is... and thats a fairly common thing to do in our society, at least in denmark, I'm afraid. We have a lot of bigots and racists here, who cant see beyond the color of peoples skin.
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