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Author Topic: [NBA] Pacers/Pistons Brawl  (Read 3987 times)
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Devil
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« on: November 20, 2004, 05:07:35 AM »

Not that it's any fault of the sport but just when I thought the NBA couldn't get worse!!

It's FAN-tastic!  :roll:
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jonsauce
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2004, 05:08:27 AM »

That was pretty crazy.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2004, 05:35:39 AM »

Awesome.

That idiot in the hat was sucker punching Artest from behind.  He'll get his due.
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Semaj
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2004, 06:32:33 AM »

Your link of the moment

http://www.santoalt.com/pacers_pistons_fight.php
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SkyLander
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2004, 06:55:34 AM »

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gameoverman
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2004, 07:19:31 AM »

COMEDY GOLD!!!!

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Soulchilde
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2004, 12:44:11 PM »

Man, that was ugly, but I must admit that  I think Ron Artest was right for defending himself, BUT going into the crowd was certainly going to cause the fans to react.  How often do you get a sucker punch a NBA player..  Man, lawyers are going to have a field day  with this situation.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2004, 02:26:44 PM »

That little prick in the black shirt should have had his ass kicked.   The fight between Artest/Wallace was over, and that asshole tossing the drink started this.  Him, and whovere tossed the chair (did you guys see that?) should be the first sued.

(Right now on ESPN, they using the "little children were scared" line.  Cue Helen Lovejoy!  I hate our fucking idiot society.)

And skylander, that is perfect.

I've never understood how NBA teams don't have several rows of security between fans and the opposing team.  In football, they're naturally 50 ft from the fans at all time.  (Although, anyone remember the Lincoln Kennedy incident?)  In hockey, they have this huge divider.  In the NBA, fans are almost right on top of the team.
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TC Weidner
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2004, 05:58:52 PM »

I actually caught that fight last night while channel surfing, it was nuts.  To be honest however THERE WAS NO REASON to go into the stands, sure getting beer tossed on you sucks, but just point  the dude out and he'll be "escorted" out by about 10 security people.  No need for this ghetto crap. I am sorry but the NBA is just pathetic, a former shell of its greatness of yesteryear.

Just too much street and attitude  etc in the game.  I hope people are arrested, players sued, and fined, and suspended.  I also found it offending that the ESPN wrap -up actually were fully blaming the fans,  my god get a clue.  Sure ONE FAN was to blame and should of been escorted out, thats it, all the rest of that nonsense was squarely the fault of the PACERS.
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mori
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2004, 06:05:08 PM »

Quote from: "TC Weidner"
I actually caught that fight last night while channel surfing, it was nuts.  To be honest however THERE WAS NO REASON to go into the stands, sure getting beer tossed on you sucks, but just point  the dude out and he'll be "escorted" out by about 10 security people.  No need for this ghetto crap. I am sorry but the NBA is just pathetic, a former shell of its greatness of yesteryear.

Just too much street and attitude  etc in the game.  I hope people are arrested, players sued, and fined, and suspended.  I also found it offending that the ESPN wrap -up actually were fully blaming the fans,  my god get a clue.  Sure ONE FAN was to blame and should of been escorted out, thats it, all the rest of that nonsense was squarely the fault of the PACERS.

Agree.
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weeskwee
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2004, 06:44:16 PM »

would have been cooler if the basketball players had machetes.
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Xmann
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2004, 07:15:54 PM »

exactely why i quit watching NBA.
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Semaj
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2004, 08:17:31 PM »

I had this arguement with one of my friend last night who said the NBA players were out of line....  As if it was thier fault...

I dint know about you,.. but if you can nail a person with a full cup of beer and only get yelled at and sent to the door, how long before someone fills it up with urine or something worse?

The NBA Players shouldnt have been allowed to rush the fans and in the same token, the fans hsouldnt have gotten out of thier seats and felt the need to do what they did.  

Once one of the fans  physically attacked the player (And thats what it was, contrary to popular opinion) sometimes shit happens.

This is more on Detroit and the lack of security used for these games.  I think it's going to blow over, as opposed to change how things are done like it should.   Too much money is made off those courtside seats/beer sales for Detroit to really do anything about it.

Although in my eyes, the fans should get sued as much/if not more than the players, as well as face serious jailtime.
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Clanwolfer
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2004, 08:42:02 PM »

There's no excuse on the part of the players or the fans.  It's hardly comparable, but when I ran track, I had stuff thrown at me by fans of the host team.  You know what I did?  Found the manager of the meet, pointed them out AFTER my race was over, and as far as I know, they were suspended.  And imagine, me showing such restraint without making obscene amounts of money to ease my pain and indignation!

Sorry, but a professional shouldn't be rushing the stands no matter what's being thrown at them.  I don't have as much of an issue with decking a guy sucker-punching them, but if they're throwing beer, you wipe it off, change your jersey, and keep playing.  Playing sports isn't an excuse to act like a fuckwad, on the court or off.

As for the fans, I hope anyone who was caught throwing stuff on camera is indicted for assault, and anyone caught throwing a punch is indicted for battery.  Watching sports isn't a license to act like a fuckwad, in the arena or out.
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malichai11
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2004, 08:57:27 PM »

Quote from: "TC Weidner"
I actually caught that fight last night while channel surfing, it was nuts.  To be honest however THERE WAS NO REASON to go into the stands, sure getting beer tossed on you sucks, but just point  the dude out and he'll be "escorted" out by about 10 security people.  No need for this ghetto crap. I am sorry but the NBA is just pathetic, a former shell of its greatness of yesteryear.

Just too much street and attitude  etc in the game.  I hope people are arrested, players sued, and fined, and suspended.  I also found it offending that the ESPN wrap -up actually were fully blaming the fans,  my god get a clue.  Sure ONE FAN was to blame and should of been escorted out, thats it, all the rest of that nonsense was squarely the fault of the PACERS.


I caught the majority of the fight last night and pretty much agree with you from top to bottom.
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olaf
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2004, 09:40:29 PM »

I think it was a bad scene all around but come on, if you toss something at a player, be prepared to get your ass kicked.  And if you come onto the field or the court and then proceed to get your ass kicked, you shouldnt be surprised.

olaf
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McBa1n
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2004, 10:39:05 PM »

I've seen a BUNCH of pier 6 brawls in the stands of boston gardens and madison square... Hell even the Hartford Civic Center...
But I've never been in such shock watching a sports brawl.

WTF are those clowns doing going up in the stands?
Granted, fans shouldn't be throwing shit - they will likely get their due anyway, they almost always do... (loss of season tickets - a large fine..etc, etc)
But what does that say when a couple of turkeys run up into the stands are start throwin at the fans?

I always have defended fighting in hockey, but dang - when this kinda crap goes into the stands, there's a serious problem.
I always hate when players say they were 'defending themself'
From what? Beer? OMG!!!WTF!!

I love Artest, but I think if he got suspended for the rest of the year along with that other turkey that was throwin punches up in the stands, I wouldn't mind.

The NBA just keeps finding ways to alienate it's fans... It's a garbage league now anyway and this ain't gonna help.
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Devil
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2004, 10:51:08 PM »

You can't go into the stands. Period. End of story. If a guy came on to the court then pound away. I don't care who threw what. You can't go into the stands.

If Artest rolled of the table screaming and pointing instead of charging up there, none of this would have happened. As a pro athlete you should know better.

The only good thing for the fans was that they were basketball players throwing the punches. They lead with their chests and hit like girls.

One guy got popped pretty good though.
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Interloper
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2004, 11:13:00 PM »

What is it with sports fan going psycho?!?!  Soccer fans trample each other, riots after league series finals, soccer moms punching the hell out of each other, this... good god get a grip dumbasses. :roll:
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Ranulf
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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2004, 01:04:18 AM »

Quote from: "Semaj"
I had this arguement with one of my friend last night who said the NBA players were out of line....  As if it was thier fault...

I dint know about you,.. but if you can nail a person with a full cup of beer and only get yelled at and sent to the door, how long before someone fills it up with urine or something worse?

The NBA Players shouldnt have been allowed to rush the fans and in the same token, the fans hsouldnt have gotten out of thier seats and felt the need to do what they did.  

Once one of the fans  physically attacked the player (And thats what it was, contrary to popular opinion) sometimes shit happens.

This is more on Detroit and the lack of security used for these games.  I think it's going to blow over, as opposed to change how things are done like it should.   Too much money is made off those courtside seats/beer sales for Detroit to really do anything about it.

Although in my eyes, the fans should get sued as much/if not more than the players, as well as face serious jailtime.


Uhm, sorry but no. From the video I saw, dunno what you saw, but the players jumped into the stands swinging, most likely hitting innocents in the process. The beer tosser should've been pointed out and tossed/banned/charged whatever. Artest belongs in damn jail. Smug bastard was lying on the score table and gets hit by a beer. Big deal, he's a pro supposedly, act like it, be the bigger man and get the asshole tossed out. Those players deserved every hit they got once they jumped into the stands.
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Xmann
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« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2004, 01:37:41 AM »

atleast Artest will get his time-off he wanted earlier.  what a jerk.
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Rhinohelix
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« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2004, 04:17:47 AM »

I mean, come on.  Throwing a beer is a reason to get ejected, and barred, and maybe misdemeanor charges if someone is a serious tight ass.

I know that playing football (this was 10+ years ago) college fans threw all kinds of things at us, including batteries.  Wearing your helmet was required as a discipline thing but also as safety procedure.

Going into the stands is like the 11th commandment; you just are never justified doing it.  I don't care what fans do, as long as they aren't waving a gun, you just don't do it.

As far as basketball players go, they aren't built like tackles, but have you ever stood next to one?  Charles "Bo" Outlaw could palm my head at 6'10",  and was 250+ lbs.  They are massive big men, even the short ones are as tall as most NFL lineman, if not much taller.  They are packing a lot of mass.  Ask Rudy Tomjonavich.

That being said, I think the players looked stupid by not dealing with the fans decisively.  I mean, if you are going to break that invisible wall, at least do it with sturm und drang, such that fans are not encouraged to take pokes at you.  If winning a big lawsuit < having a flat face after reconstructive surgery, maybe there won't be such a market for beer hurlers.

Look at the rest of things going on.  Going into the stands  should mean your rap album gets pulled, at least.  :roll:

Rhino
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Daehawk
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« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2004, 04:26:20 AM »

You're all missing the point here...that was LITE beer! If it had been a full robust beer no one woulda laid a hand on that guy but come on..lite beer?,..He deserved it!  Tongue
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2004, 04:45:06 AM »

First off...that dude in the black shirt that got pounded by Artest.....was he even the guy that threw the initial cup???  Artest wasn't even looking his way when the cup hit.  How in the world did he single him out when he wasn't looking in that direction? I'm thinking he had the wrong person.

Second, Artest and the Pacers threw ALL of the initial punches.  Especially when Artest was back on the floor and he pounded that guy in the Pistons jersey.

Third....where is the suspension for Indiana's Assistant Coach in the tan suit that was hitting the two guys in Pistons jerseys while they were on the floor (after getting pounded by Artest)?  Nice pussy action there pal, hitting a guy on the floor.  Same goes for you too O'Neal cause you slamdunked the same guy (on the floor) seconds after your Assistant Coach did.

Lastly for all you defending the Pacers.......using your logic.... the next time a NBA player dropkicks a basketball into the crowd, the crowd can pummel said player instantly on the court in the name of "defending themselves".  Bullshit.  :roll:
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BigRedCat
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« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2004, 05:19:02 AM »

The guy with glasses in the black shirt DID NOT throw the cup. They've showed the footage here in Michigan so much. The guy next to him with a white cap underhands the beer, then points at the guy next to him which Artest pounds. That is the true snake here.

But, in defense of all the other fans, what do you think they knew about this?
They saw Artest run and pound someone in the crowd. As far as anyones concerned there was no reason for this, and fans reacted harshly for this. It doesn't reflect badly on anyone but Artest and the fan who started it. Of course anyone who continued it should've backed off, but from their view, the Pacers were beating innocents.

Ben Wallace gets suspended for 5 games, which is okay since I believe he shouldn't be punished at all but you can't let that go. His sort of reaction happens all the time in most NBA games and no riots start.The other guys got 20 and 30 game suspensions. And I imagine the glasses guy has a tidy sum coming his way.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2004, 05:44:48 AM »

Just saw the video of the white hat dude.  Yep, he did it.  What an asshole.  He's toast for sure.

The black shirt guy is going to be rich $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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rshetts
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« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2004, 06:00:45 AM »

What Wallace did was in response to a foul from behind while going up for a lay-up/dunk which is the definition of a flagarant foul. Coupled with the fact that the game was over and the foul was uncalled for, Wallace did what other NBA players have done 100's of times, he retaliated with a shove.  Should he be disciplined?  Yes, definately, but his reaction has generally results in being thrown out the game, along with a 1 game suspension.  Any further punishment is reactionary by the league, since a precidence has been set.  Regarding the Pacers flailing in the stands,  thats a different story.  Expect to see minimum 20 game suspensions and for Artest, possibly 40.  There was also a report that ONeal coldcocked someone in the tunnel and (according to the police, the act was witnessed by police officers) might be facing criminal assault charges.  Wallace will probably face a 5 game suspension, paying for the Detroit fans crimes and hopefully, the fans who were involved in this will be identified and procecuted.    They guys who came out on the court and got clocked by Pacer players paid for their stupidity and should be sterilized for the sake of humanity's future (those genes need to be removed from the pool!)  Well, that may be a bit extreme but that would definately cut down on fans rushing the court, eh?   The final fallout from this is a ways off, but it will be interesting to see how the NBA handles this.
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malichai11
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« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2004, 06:18:30 AM »

Early reports are Artest will be suspended 30 games, O'neal and Jackson 20, and Wallace 5. http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3179442
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redman5427
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2004, 02:01:58 PM »

I think the suspensions are probably right and justified. I think the Pistons are a little tired of Artest and league officials. Does anybody remember the playoffs last year when Artest smacked Hamilton in the mask flagrantly that was protecting his head? Does anyone thinks the Pistons have forgotton that incident and Artest should have been thrown out of that game but the officials didn't do anything. Artest has great talent and ability but can't get over his problems upstairs so I think we will continue to see more of the same from him. Yes, I think the Pacer- Piston rematch at Christmas will be highly watched also and as an aside did anybody catch that College football fight on saturday? They looked like they had all seen the Pacers- Pistons on tv the night before
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2004, 04:07:56 PM »

That S. Carolina/Clemson fight was sweet.  Did you notice the cops only going after South Carolina players (the away team)?
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malichai11
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2004, 11:03:25 PM »

According to ESPN now, the suspensions have been finalized http://www.espn.com. Artest is gone for the entire year, Stephen Jackson for 30 games, Jermaine O'Neal for 25, Ben Wallace for 6, and Anthony Johnson for 5. Four other players received 1 game suspensions.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2004, 11:07:05 PM »

While they're suspended like this, do they still get paid?
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« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2004, 11:43:12 PM »

From the AP:

Quote
All of the suspensions are without pay.


I don't know if their pay goes to a league fund or something like the NHL does.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2004, 11:57:33 PM »

Who was the Pacer in the suit that pummeled the Piston fan on the floor?  He hit him after Artest and before O'Neal came sliding in.  No suspension for him?
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2004, 04:54:52 AM »

If you're talking about the guy in the tan suit, I believe that was Reggie Miller, who was suited due to being on the IL - but I don't believe he hit anyone.  He was suspended one game.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2004, 01:46:50 PM »

SOMEbody in a suit clocked that guy on the ground.  Not sure if it was Reggie Mille though.  I don't think it was.
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Trey
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2004, 02:07:16 PM »

The guy in the tan suit here is Chuck "The Rifleman" Person, I believe. He's a retired 3-point specialist who is now an assistant coach with the Pacers. Everywhere I saw Artest during the melee, Person was nearby involved in it. I barely saw Reggie Miller at all and certainly didn't see him throw any punches.
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2004, 03:50:17 PM »

Yeah!  That looks like the guy on the video.  Where is his punishment?
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Rhinohelix
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« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2004, 10:41:45 PM »

I don't think that is the guy.  The guy being referred to is thinner and darker skinned than that, I believe.  I also think that tan suit is darker as well.

Rhino
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Greggy_D
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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2004, 01:50:12 AM »

You're right Rhino.....the guy's suit IS darker than Person's.  I just saw it again on the news and then saw Person.
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