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Author Topic: [movies] James Cameron's Avatar  (Read 20629 times)
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ATB
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« Reply #360 on: August 05, 2010, 03:31:36 AM »

Yeah cause box office success is a measure of quality.   retard Roll Eyes
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« Reply #361 on: August 05, 2010, 04:25:27 AM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on August 05, 2010, 03:31:36 AM

Yeah cause box office success is a measure of quality.   retard Roll Eyes

No, but I guess nine Oscar nominations can be equally ignored as well.   retard

The film had story problems, but touting it as a "terrible" film is ridiculous.
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« Reply #362 on: August 05, 2010, 04:29:21 AM »

Quote from: PeteRock on August 05, 2010, 04:25:27 AM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on August 05, 2010, 03:31:36 AM

Yeah cause box office success is a measure of quality.   retard Roll Eyes

No, but I guess nine Oscar nominations can be equally ignored as well.   retard

The film had story problems, but touting it as a "terrible" film is ridiculous.
What makes it a good movie? Rehashed story that was just copied from various other movies. Pretty weak script. Cliche, boring characters that were very hard to give a damn about. It was pretty though.
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« Reply #363 on: August 05, 2010, 04:59:02 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on August 05, 2010, 12:08:01 AM

As for "in the now", Cameron has written and directed one non-documentary film in the last 13 years.  That's not much of a track record, but all he did was write/direct/produce the highest grossing film in history.  No big deal.  It must have not been very good though...    retard

What? Really? You're really making the argument that popularity is quality? Wow.

People went to this movie for the spectacle. They went in droves. I did too. Avatar is a hot chick in a smoking dress. Problem is, she's a shallow bitch - great for a 1 night stand, but you do not wanna get stuck married to her.
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« Reply #364 on: August 05, 2010, 05:18:04 AM »

Quote from: PeteRock on August 05, 2010, 04:25:27 AM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on August 05, 2010, 03:31:36 AM

Yeah cause box office success is a measure of quality.   retard Roll Eyes

No, but I guess nine Oscar nominations can be equally ignored as well.   retard

The film had story problems, but touting it as a "terrible" film is ridiculous.

Well then start calling me ridiculous, because I thought it was terrible.
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« Reply #365 on: August 05, 2010, 06:11:47 AM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 04, 2010, 10:06:27 PM

Quote from: Rowdy on August 04, 2010, 07:50:26 PM

So yes, if you're watching Avatar and evaluating it on it's story and the acting, you've missed the point of why Cameron created it and what the purpose of the film is.

That's a rather unfair comment.  I can't speak for Sensuous, obviously, but the way I read it, he was simply saying that good special effects alone do not make for a good film, and yet that's all Avatar has.  If I'm wrong, I apologise.  If I'm right, then I agree with him completely.  Nobody can deny that Avatar has good special effects, but what I'm saying is that it's so incredibly weak on just about every other front that it's overall an awful film.

Agree completely with this sentiment- Nice effects, weak story and characters. I.e., its a Tech-Demo
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« Reply #366 on: August 05, 2010, 01:40:13 PM »

Quote from: happydog on August 05, 2010, 05:18:04 AM

Well then start calling me ridiculous, because I thought it was terrible.

You're ridiculous !!!
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« Reply #367 on: August 05, 2010, 02:16:31 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on August 05, 2010, 01:40:13 PM

Quote from: happydog on August 05, 2010, 05:18:04 AM

Well then start calling me ridiculous, because I thought it was terrible.

You're ridiculous !!!

we should change his name to RidiculousDog  Tongue
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« Reply #368 on: August 05, 2010, 03:43:34 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on August 05, 2010, 03:31:36 AM

Yeah cause box office success is a measure of quality.   retard Roll Eyes

How many other "terrible" movies can you name that made a billion dollars?

Guess what, just because you and others didn't like the film doesn't make it terrible.  Box Office success IS one measure of quality, particularly in the film industry.  When a million people say "this is great!" and a thousand people say "this sucks!", then it's far more likely the thousand people are wrong than the million people are.  Or, more accurately, since taste is such a subjective thing; it's more likely the thousand people simply have different taste than the majority, which is fine.  It does not mean that the million people are all wrong.

The fact that Cameron has made two of the top grossing movies of all time pretty much means that the vast majority of people thinks he makes high quality films.  You may not agree, as is your right, but as shown by the numbers, most don't agree with you.
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« Reply #369 on: August 05, 2010, 03:47:25 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on August 05, 2010, 04:59:02 AM

Quote from: Blackadar on August 05, 2010, 12:08:01 AM

As for "in the now", Cameron has written and directed one non-documentary film in the last 13 years.  That's not much of a track record, but all he did was write/direct/produce the highest grossing film in history.  No big deal.  It must have not been very good though...    retard

What? Really? You're really making the argument that popularity is quality? Wow.

People went to this movie for the spectacle. They went in droves. I did too. Avatar is a hot chick in a smoking dress. Problem is, she's a shallow bitch - great for a 1 night stand, but you do not wanna get stuck married to her.

I don't understand your logic.  If popularity is not at least a factor in quality, then what is?  How do you explain popularity if quality is not a part of it?  Certainly you can have quality without popularity (a niche product that no one knows about, or is too expensive, or whatever), but how can something be popular if it doesn't have any quality?  Why would it be popular?  Clearly if something is popular, the way Avatar is, then a large number of people consider it to be high quality.
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« Reply #370 on: August 05, 2010, 04:38:50 PM »

Quote
If popularity is not at least a factor in quality, then what is?



Quality??
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« Reply #371 on: August 05, 2010, 04:55:46 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on August 05, 2010, 04:59:02 AM

Avatar is a hot chick in a smoking dress. Problem is, she's a shallow bitch - great for a 1 night stand, but you do not wanna get stuck married to her.

Who want's to marry her?  When I go to the theater to see a movie I am looking for a one night stand.  I'm not looking to take her home to meet mom.

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« Reply #372 on: August 05, 2010, 05:30:49 PM »

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 03:43:34 PM

The fact that Cameron has made two of the top grossing movies of all time pretty much means that the vast majority of people thinks he makes high quality films.  You may not agree, as is your right, but as shown by the numbers, most don't agree with you.

That's insane. Razgon gave a good example of something extremely popular but absolutely terrible. Look at pop music for crying out loud. Ashlee Simpson? Hello? Chick has sold tons of albums but she's awful. Avatar wasn't awful. It was merely OK. It was a visual spectacle with a weak, unoriginal story and cliche's everywhere. "It's like it's some kind of... shock and awe campaign!" Ugh. Fortunately for Cameron, people love them some eye candy and don't care so much for what's underneath.

Quote from: denoginizer on August 05, 2010, 04:55:46 PM

Who want's to marry her?  When I go to the theater to see a movie I am looking for a one night stand.  I'm not looking to take her home to meet mom.

If you don't want to marry her then she's not a good woman. Just a cheap thrill. Same with Avatar... just because a lot of guys wanna bang her doesn't make it a good movie.
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« Reply #373 on: August 05, 2010, 06:27:32 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on August 05, 2010, 05:30:49 PM

That's insane. Razgon gave a good example of something extremely popular but absolutely terrible. Look at pop music for crying out loud. Ashlee Simpson? Hello? Chick has sold tons of albums but she's awful. Avatar wasn't awful. It was merely OK. It was a visual spectacle with a weak, unoriginal story and cliche's everywhere. "It's like it's some kind of... shock and awe campaign!" Ugh. Fortunately for Cameron, people love them some eye candy and don't care so much for what's underneath.

Except neither of these things are the most popular, so those are false comparisons.  Last time I checked, Michael Jackson's Thriller was still the all time best selling album, followed by Back in Black and Dark Side of the Moon.  Ashley Simpson would be more like...Transformers 2.  smile

If you're going to require some deep meaning in a movie for it to be "good", then Avatar doesn't fit the bill.  But it is extremely successful as entertainment...which last time I checked was the goal of a movie.  Are you not entertained?



I think it's just in some people's nature to shit on anything that was wildly successful.  Saw the same thing with Titanic.  Saw the same thing with ET.  Saw the same thing with Star Wars.  I'm sure the same thing happened with Gone with the Wind.  So be it.
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« Reply #374 on: August 05, 2010, 06:29:57 PM »

huh? we dont like the movie, and its in our nature to shit on anything wildly succesfull? Thats way out of line, Blackadar.

oh, and Crocs ARE hugely popular in every country in the world more or less...
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« Reply #375 on: August 05, 2010, 07:17:34 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on August 05, 2010, 06:29:57 PM

huh? we dont like the movie, and its in our nature to shit on anything wildly succesfull? Thats way out of line, Blackadar.

I said some people.  I didn't mention that it included anyone on this board.  But if you feel that group includes you, that's your prerogative.
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« Reply #376 on: August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM »

Perhaps you guys need to be a little more open minded about what constitutes quality.  I don't personally like Crocs, but they were intended to be a mass produced, low cost, semi-disposable shoe used for gardening, out in the yard, beach, whatever.  They perform the role they were created for perfectly.  Performing or exceeding the required functionality of the product = high quality.  Hence, wildly popular.  If Crocs fell apart immediately upon wearing them, or were extremely uncomfortable or something, thus not meeting the need they were designed for, they wouldn't be popular.

Ashlee Simpson?  First of all, not exactly wildly popular, so poor example.  Second, like movies, music is subjective.  It's much more difficult to define what the required functionality is for a singer.  Everyone looks for something different in a musical experience. Quality for them might be defined by looks, catchy beats, good lyrics, writes her own music, good dancer, good singer, style, whatever.  Your criteria for "quality" in music is clearly different than that of a 14 year old girl.  To Simpson's target audience, however, her product obviously fufills the requirements, making her a popular singer.  If it didn't, no one would buy it.  If you want to find out what the aggregate definition for "Quality" in music is over the whole music buying population, look at the top sellers.  Beatles.  Michael Jackson.  Elvis.  Madonna.  Queen.  All pretty "high quality" by any definition, aren't they?  That's why they're top sellers.  You can't have popularity without quality.

Try to give me an example of something that's highly popular (as defined by sales, or ownership, or audience) that doesn't meet the requirements that it was designed for.  Some product that hopelessly fails at everything it's meant to do, but is still incredibly popular.
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« Reply #377 on: August 05, 2010, 07:28:29 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on August 05, 2010, 07:17:34 PM

Quote from: Razgon on August 05, 2010, 06:29:57 PM

huh? we dont like the movie, and its in our nature to shit on anything wildly succesfull? Thats way out of line, Blackadar.

I said some people.  I didn't mention that it included anyone on this board.  But if you feel that group includes you, that's your prerogative.

ohh - Clever retort! Now I feel ashamed and have greater respect for your intellect and willingness to discuss thing. For real.

Anyways, its nice that people enjoy the movie, and as I said in the other 3D movie thread, I actually think there are real possibilities in the technology, if they use it to enhance and build on the story like in Coraline. I still feel like Avatar is a showcase for the technology (And it does that very well), but as a movie (With my criteries which include stories and acting) it doesnt do so well.

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« Reply #378 on: August 05, 2010, 07:42:14 PM »

Avatar is the Doom 3 of the movie world.
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« Reply #379 on: August 05, 2010, 07:44:23 PM »

Quote from: Graham on August 05, 2010, 07:42:14 PM

Avatar is the Doom 3 of the movie world.

No, they have plenty of light in Avatar.
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« Reply #380 on: August 05, 2010, 07:46:38 PM »

All this crap is subjective anyway. (Unless you're a film student or something I guess).

I'd probably get banned for my opinion of Star Wars or Tarantino or what I consider a great anti-war movie.

I love A, you hate A. I hate B, you love B. /shrug

Can't we just all get along?  crybaby

 icon_lol icon_lol
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« Reply #381 on: August 05, 2010, 07:49:41 PM »

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on August 05, 2010, 07:46:38 PM

All this crap is subjective anyway. (Unless you're a film student or something I guess).

I'd probably get banned for my opinion of Star Wars or Tarantino or what I consider a great anti-war movie.

I love A, you hate A. I hate B, you love B. /shrug

Can't we just all get along?  crybaby

 icon_lol icon_lol


but..but... Avatar like/dislike is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!
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« Reply #382 on: August 05, 2010, 08:01:14 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on August 05, 2010, 07:28:29 PM


ohh - Clever retort! Now I feel ashamed and have greater respect for your intellect and willingness to discuss thing. For real.

Good, I'm glad we got that cleared up.  Now go take another swig of hateraid.  slywink
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« Reply #383 on: August 05, 2010, 08:52:57 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on August 05, 2010, 06:27:32 PM

But it is extremely successful as entertainment...which last time I checked was the goal of a movie.  Are you not entertained?

To digress for a moment, this, at least, I agree with.  I had quite a row with a friend of mine once who said that Requiem for a Dream was pointless.  When asked why, he said it was because it was full of misery from beginning to end.  My point, which my friend simply could not understand, was that the aim of a film is to entertain.  Miserable it may be, but it entertained me, therefore it could not possibly be described as pointless.  It isn't even a matter of opinion.
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« Reply #384 on: August 05, 2010, 09:49:53 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on August 05, 2010, 08:01:14 PM

Quote from: Razgon on August 05, 2010, 07:28:29 PM


ohh - Clever retort! Now I feel ashamed and have greater respect for your intellect and willingness to discuss thing. For real.

Good, I'm glad we got that cleared up.  Now go take another swig of hateraid.  slywink

You know - re-reading most of what I wrote in this thread made me realize I came off as a twat - sorry about that! I still mean my last post though, more or less :-)
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« Reply #385 on: August 06, 2010, 04:11:37 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on August 05, 2010, 06:27:32 PM

Saw the same thing with Titanic. 

Of course you did. Because Titanic was a shitty cliche of a movie.

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

You can't have popularity without quality.

I'm not so sure I agree, but I would agree that Avatar has some quality. It just doesn't have a lot of it.
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hmm...


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« Reply #386 on: August 06, 2010, 04:43:13 AM »

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

Try to give me an example of something that's highly popular (as defined by sales, or ownership, or audience) that doesn't meet the requirements that it was designed for.  Some product that hopelessly fails at everything it's meant to do, but is still incredibly popular.

Internet Explorer
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« Reply #387 on: August 06, 2010, 05:28:35 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on August 06, 2010, 04:43:13 AM

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

Try to give me an example of something that's highly popular (as defined by sales, or ownership, or audience) that doesn't meet the requirements that it was designed for.  Some product that hopelessly fails at everything it's meant to do, but is still incredibly popular.

Internet Explorer

and yet still in demand due to MS's archaic requirements for updates and office integration and lazy gov't, old companies too slow to update their interface, and horrid web developers who refuse to support more than the #1 browser (#1 because it's the default option and general users are ignorant of the others)

perfect example pug. 
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« Reply #388 on: August 07, 2010, 02:05:25 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on August 06, 2010, 04:43:13 AM

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

Try to give me an example of something that's highly popular (as defined by sales, or ownership, or audience) that doesn't meet the requirements that it was designed for.  Some product that hopelessly fails at everything it's meant to do, but is still incredibly popular.

Internet Explorer

Except it fully meets the requirements that it was designed for. Surfing the web.
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« Reply #389 on: August 07, 2010, 01:23:06 PM »

Quote from: Toe on August 07, 2010, 02:05:25 AM

Quote from: wonderpug on August 06, 2010, 04:43:13 AM

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

Try to give me an example of something that's highly popular (as defined by sales, or ownership, or audience) that doesn't meet the requirements that it was designed for.  Some product that hopelessly fails at everything it's meant to do, but is still incredibly popular.

Internet Explorer

Except it fully meets the requirements that it was designed for. Surfing the web.

Hard to surf the web when viruses bring your pc down or it inexplicably locks up.
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« Reply #390 on: August 07, 2010, 04:41:41 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on August 07, 2010, 01:23:06 PM

Quote from: Toe on August 07, 2010, 02:05:25 AM

Quote from: wonderpug on August 06, 2010, 04:43:13 AM

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

Try to give me an example of something that's highly popular (as defined by sales, or ownership, or audience) that doesn't meet the requirements that it was designed for.  Some product that hopelessly fails at everything it's meant to do, but is still incredibly popular.

Internet Explorer

Except it fully meets the requirements that it was designed for. Surfing the web.

Hard to surf the web when viruses bring your pc down or it inexplicably locks up.

Must be user error.
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« Reply #391 on: August 08, 2010, 03:26:59 AM »

Quote from: PeteRock on August 04, 2010, 04:43:37 PM

The dialogue in the Star Wars films is actually pretty bad, the characters fairly simple, and the storyline of good versus evil/light versus dark a bit basic as well.  I think what made the series so interesting was how it was all presented and how these elements were combined in an entirely new world/universe/setting.

I think I'll have to take exception here. The original Star Wars films didn't have dialogue that was that bad, honestly. The characters are pretty well-drawn. My wife, who doesn't like Star Wars, can explain to a T what kind of a person Han Solo or C-3PO or Lando Calrissian is, because they were pretty fleshed-out.

The story was basic, and ran off a bunch of archetypes from the past, true. We knew who the good guys were and who were the bad guys. The visuals did sell the movie quite a bit, but what made the universe feel real was the fact that we could identify, to some small degree, with the characters. We could see ourselves in them.

Circling back to Avatar: We had a fairly basic story. No one is denying this. We had some awesome visuals. Most everyone agrees on this point. What killed the movie for me is that after leaving the movie I couldn't remember any character's names, or any major characteristics of the major players other than, "This guy is a jerk, this guy is nice."

The first time the general appeared, I actually remember thinking, "Please tell me he's not the bad guy. That's way too obvious."

Of course, those who didn't like the movie are in the minority on this one. It's made over a billion dollars worldwide, but it just feels so clinical to me that I can't stand it.
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« Reply #392 on: August 08, 2010, 03:34:36 AM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on August 08, 2010, 03:26:59 AM


The first time the general appeared, I actually remember thinking, "Please tell me he's not the bad guy. That's way too obvious."


Yeah because Darth Vader was way more subtle   icon_wink
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« Reply #393 on: August 08, 2010, 03:37:26 AM »

True, but he was at least cool about it.
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« Reply #394 on: August 08, 2010, 09:16:45 PM »

Quote from: Caine on August 06, 2010, 05:28:35 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on August 06, 2010, 04:43:13 AM

Quote from: Rowdy on August 05, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

Try to give me an example of something that's highly popular (as defined by sales, or ownership, or audience) that doesn't meet the requirements that it was designed for.  Some product that hopelessly fails at everything it's meant to do, but is still incredibly popular.

Internet Explorer

and yet still in demand due to MS's archaic requirements for updates and office integration and lazy gov't, old companies too slow to update their interface, and horrid web developers who refuse to support more than the #1 browser (#1 because it's the default option and general users are ignorant of the others)

perfect example pug. 

I assume Pug was being tongue in cheek.  You might not like IE, but it works just fine.  Just because there are other browsers that have better features, or follow standards better, or whatever doesn't mean that IE doesn't work.  It browses the web, it runs internet programs.  That's what it was built to do, so people use it.  Are there better browsers?  Sure.  IE is in demand because many users don't care what browser they use, as long as it works.  IE works when they install windows, so they use it.

And to SL's comment about the viruses or whatever, I assume that's not really meant as a counter point, is it?  My car won't go very far if someone slashes the tires either.  Is that because it's a low quality car?
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« Reply #395 on: August 08, 2010, 09:43:00 PM »

I think the Ford Pinto would "work just fine" by your rating scale.
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« Reply #396 on: August 09, 2010, 02:50:32 AM »

Quote from: Rowdy on August 08, 2010, 09:16:45 PM

And to SL's comment about the viruses or whatever, I assume that's not really meant as a counter point, is it?  My car won't go very far if someone slashes the tires either.  Is that because it's a low quality car?

Allow me to translate: Indy IV SUCKS!
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« Reply #397 on: August 09, 2010, 03:24:18 AM »

Avatar for me played out like a video game,and i don't just mean the Graphics/Effects..just how it all played out,like training that big bird thing to be ridable,and hunting etc and especially the 'boss' battle at the end

other films do this also of course but it felt more evident in Avatar,at least for me icon_biggrin

it was a decent enough movie i thought,nothing more

i would rather have a completely new James Cameron Film rather than Avatar 2 and 3,TBH
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« Reply #398 on: August 09, 2010, 03:29:32 AM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on August 09, 2010, 02:50:32 AM

Quote from: Rowdy on August 08, 2010, 09:16:45 PM

And to SL's comment about the viruses or whatever, I assume that's not really meant as a counter point, is it?  My car won't go very far if someone slashes the tires either.  Is that because it's a low quality car?

Allow me to translate: Indy IV SUCKS!

Wow. Wrong thread.

<cough>

Allow me to translate: AVATAR SUCKS!
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« Reply #399 on: August 13, 2010, 07:32:51 PM »

more LOVE/HATE incoming


actually its more LOVE icon_wink

Avatar is getting a re-release with a new 'sex scene' included

Avatar re-release

Quote
When "Avatar" returns to theaters in 3-D and 3-D IMAX for a limited engagement Aug. 27, among the eight minutes of new bonus footage is a scene that has had fanboys buzzing for months.

"It's been restored, every last frame of it. Seriously," director James Cameron tells MTV News. However, "I would say, just so that we correctly manage people's expectations, it does not change our rating at all. I would call it more of an alien foreplay scene. It's not like they're ripping their clothes off and going at it."

Naytiri (Zoe Saldana) and Jake's (Sam Worthington) lovemaking is described as "the ultimate intimacy" in the screenplay. "They come together into a kiss and sink down on the bed of moss, and ripples of light spread out around them."

Cameron is also said to be considering shooting the two sequels to "Avatar" back-to-back since the movies would involve so much motion capture and special effects work. He also claims to be working on a novelization of the first film.


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