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Author Topic: [movie] Star Trek 2, AKA Star Trek Into Darkness  (Read 20531 times)
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« Reply #480 on: June 03, 2013, 04:24:52 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 03, 2013, 02:43:33 PM

Agree with Bones being underused, though.  I felt that way in the first film, too.

While I think Zoe Saldana is fantastic as Uhura, and I like the fact that a female character has moved into the forefront, probably my least liked aspect of the reboot is that the classic trio of Kirk, Spock and Bones is no longer present.


Yeah i am getting that feel from the original series now,apart from the films i never realised how close just those three were...Uhura,Scotty,Sulu(Chekov i don't think has come into the series yet),are secondary characters..at least what i have seen up to now
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« Reply #481 on: June 03, 2013, 04:31:09 PM »

The Kirk/Bones/Spock interplay is awesome for those few brief moments the new movies do use them.  I agree that even more focus on the original trio would be better.
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« Reply #482 on: June 03, 2013, 04:33:03 PM »

Plus, it needs to be reinforced by the movies that Kirk learned everything he knows from the master.

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« Reply #483 on: June 03, 2013, 05:13:42 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 03, 2013, 04:33:03 PM

Plus, it needs to be reinforced by the movies that Kirk learned everything he knows from the master.


Yeah, but it was actually Scotty who was his mentor there - those 2 flanking Bones are actually part of the Engineering team, but dressed in their R&R uniforms.    Tongue
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« Reply #484 on: June 03, 2013, 05:18:05 PM »

Yep, definitely need more Bones.
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« Reply #485 on: June 03, 2013, 05:19:00 PM »

And scantily clad Carol Marcus.
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« Reply #486 on: June 03, 2013, 08:12:05 PM »

BOM has finally updated the foriegn market for Star Trek Into Darkness

Quote
Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic:    $181,537,381      55.2%
+ Foreign:    $147,400,000      44.8%
= Worldwide:    $328,937,381   

In Release:    18 days (domestic)

the actual figures around the world are interesting(although again most haven't been updated since the 19th)

UK is the top(woohoo)with $23.7million,but Australia is pretty good too with the next highest $12.8million,especially as they only have 20 million people in the country,compared to 62 million in the UK

Quote
FOREIGN TOTAL

Australia -$12,803,647   5/26/13
Austria -$1,253,029   5/19/13
Bolivia -$42,578   5/19/13
Brazil -$35,257   5/19/13
Bulgaria -$130,811   5/19/13
Colombia -$372,291   5/19/13
Croatia -$201,875   5/19/13
Ecuador -$158,250   5/19/13
Egypt -$32,431   5/19/13
Finland -$23,835   5/26/13
Germany -$12,508,824   5/19/13
Hong Kong -$1,161,128   5/19/13
Hungary -$431,072   5/26/13
Iceland -$105,651   5/19/13
Indonesia -$1,507,401   5/19/13
Lebanon -$31,461   5/19/13
Malaysia -$1,562,755   5/19/13
Mexico -$5,339,096   5/19/13
New Zealand -$1,638,334   5/19/13
Norway -$753,277   5/19/13
Peru -$617,953   5/19/13
Philippines -$819,504   5/19/13
Russia  -$9,210,088   5/26/13
Serbia & Montenegro -$28,940   5/19/13
Singapore -$1,377,918   5/19/13
Sweden -$984,548   5/19/13
Thailand -$1,154,320   5/19/13
Ukraine -$754,334   5/26/13
United Arab Emirates -$779,610   5/19/13
United Kingdom   -$23,722,525   5/19/13
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« Reply #487 on: June 03, 2013, 08:14:23 PM »

I figured more foreign markets would like the film because Chris Pine is an Aussie.



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« Reply #488 on: June 03, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »

Really?  I thought he was Inuit?

Next thing you're going to try and tell me is that Simon Pegg isn't Somoan.
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« Reply #489 on: June 03, 2013, 08:41:23 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 03, 2013, 08:21:58 PM

Really?  I thought he was Inuit?

I heard during the scene with Alicia Eve in her unmentionables he was really Inuit
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« Reply #490 on: June 03, 2013, 08:53:35 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 03, 2013, 08:14:23 PM

I figured more foreign markets would like the film because Chris Pine is an Aussie.



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« Reply #491 on: June 07, 2013, 09:01:35 AM »

worldwide figures have finally been updated

STID opens in China and makes $25mil straight off the mark

Domestic-$186,681,718
Foreign-$147,400,000   


Quote
Australia-$13,838,405   6/2/13
Austria-$1,738,081   6/2/13
Bolivia-$122,827   6/2/13
Brazil-$657,782   6/2/13
Bulgaria-$183,767   6/2/13
China-$25,870,000   6/2/13
Colombia-$579,308   5/26/13
Croatia-$332,863   6/2/13
Ecuador-$447,784   6/2/13
Egypt-$75,349   6/2/13
Finland-$23,835   5/26/13
Germany-$18,471,286   6/2/13
Hong Kong-$1,993,306   6/2/13
Hungary-$524,289   6/2/13
Iceland-$155,276   6/2/13
India-$968,251   5/26/13
Indonesia-$2,363,774   6/2/13
Lebanon-$45,335   5/26/13
Malaysia-$2,653,928   6/2/13
Mexico-$6,652,040   6/2/13
New Zealand-$2,351,594   6/2/13
Norway-$1,082,298   6/2/13
Peru-$807,590   6/2/13
Philippines-$1,392,560   6/2/13
Russia-$10,211,524   6/2/13
Serbia & Montenegro-$49,126   5/26/13
Singapore-$2,286,849   6/2/13
Slovenia-$74,113   6/2/13
South Korea-$4,945,048   6/2/13
Sweden-$1,437,967   6/2/13
Thailand-$1,504,106   6/2/13
Ukraine-$932,078   6/2/13
United Arab Emirates-$1,035,543   6/2/13
United Kingdom-$35,097,457   6/2/13


I think overall though it will start slowing down,especially with Man of Steel out next week and with Fast 6 breaking $500mil worldwide disgust
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« Reply #492 on: June 07, 2013, 09:03:29 AM »

It opened last night here in Denmark as well - no idea on earnings yet, but will go see it saturday -cant wait!
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« Reply #493 on: June 07, 2013, 11:15:20 AM »

yep, definitely slowing down.  oh well, that'll teach them to go against the Fast & the Furious biggrin
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« Reply #494 on: June 07, 2013, 07:34:40 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 07, 2013, 11:15:20 AM

yep, definitely slowing down.  oh well, that'll teach them to go against the Fast & the Furious biggrin
Don't look now, but Fast & Furious faded so fast that it was outgrossed the other day by the modest heist film Now You See Me, playing on about 700 fewer screens:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/

Darkness' most recent figures, with expanded foreign numbers (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=startrek12.htm), at B.O. mojo is:
Domestic:     $186,681,718       55.9%
+ Foreign:     $147,400,000       44.1%
= Worldwide:     $334,081,718

The 2009 film's final take:
Domestic:     $257,730,019       66.8%
+ Foreign:     $127,950,427       33.2%
Worldwide:     $385,680,446
==============================

My uninformed prediction is it might make it to around $210M+ domestically. The foreign numbers are much stronger but it probably won't be clear for maybe another month (it seems to take so much longer to tally up foreign box office) what the final total there is. Probably it'll at least match the 2009 film's worldwide total, though given the $40M extra budget cost, that might not please the bean counters totally.

It wouldn't surprise me if the third film is a little lighter in tone. Maybe not "The Voyage Home" and Trekkian Ewoks, but perhaps something other than vengeful time traveling Romulans and domestic space terrorists.
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« Reply #495 on: June 08, 2013, 02:12:38 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 07, 2013, 09:03:29 AM

It opened last night here in Denmark as well - no idea on earnings yet, but will go see it saturday -cant wait!

Off topic: I see my fellow Englishman had to repel another Viking attack.

Mikkel Kessler vs. Carl Froch: Cobra Wins by Unanimous Decision

Denmark's Kessler is a great fighter in his own right. He won in Coppenhagen with the hometown crowd...Froch the Cobra returned the favor in England at the oh-2.
Both are sluggers, warriors, hearts as big as Canada.
I'm hoping the "rubber" match will happen.

We return you now to what ever the heck you guys were talking about.. icon_smile
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« Reply #496 on: June 08, 2013, 03:30:36 AM »

I've avoided this thread until I saw the movie, which I did tonight. What I read in this thread really surprised me.

Spoiler for Hiden:
This movie annoyed the hell out of me. I was thoroughly disappointed.

First of all, I am fine with them mining characters from the original series, but the real benefit of this reboot was they could tell all new stories. Instead, what we got was a half-assed mix up of Space Seed and Wrath of Kahn with an incredibly lazy death scene for Kirk which was not even a fraction as effective as the scene it copied. Kirk and Spock are not old friends in this movie like in Star Trek 2. To me, it just came off cheap and manipulative. I would have much rather they come up with new villains and new stories instead of attempting fan service.

Second, I don't know who that guy with the pointy ears was, but it sure wasn't Spock. Never mind that they introduced the somewhat nonsensical Spock/Uhura relationship in the first movie, I was willing to live with that, but then they have Spock not even understand what Kirk means when he says he's going to miss him? He can't experience a feeling of absence yet he is a romantic relationship? Is it just that Uhura is emotionally damaged and likes to be with someone that doesn't care about her? OK, so we can add in the fact that Spock has been changed by the destruction of Vulcan - except he explains that the effect is that he has completely turned off his emotions. Yet when Kirk dies he turns into the effing Incredible Hulk. Crying, screaming (OMG Spock's Khan scream was one of the worst things put on film and only serves to show how classic Shatner's version was), HULK SMASH! Where the heck are they going with this character? If he's just another feeling human, why even have him as a character?

And don't get me started on calling old Spock. W. T. F. A brand new series of Star Trek films and Spock's solution to his problems is to phone a friend from OG Star Trek? Is he going to do that every time they have a problem? I wanted to punch a hole in the movie screen.

And why did they need Khan's blood? They had 71 other Khans in frozen storage right on the ship! And what the hell with the Enterprise flying around in the atmosphere, much less under freaking water?!

Now I'm worried about Star Wars. At least we know that Lindelof won't be involved.
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« Reply #497 on: June 08, 2013, 08:04:46 PM »

So, I can finally read this thread, since I just saw the movie. It was pretty fun, had some amazing moments, and was pretty much what I'd expect.

Anyways - I can tell that I'm probably the only one who saw a ton of commentary on the USA in this movie? Drone killings (The torpedos), moral ambiguity in missions, use of lethal force, secret agencies and secret prisons where you just store people without a trial? I can't believe that wasn't on purpose?

All in all, I was entertained even if it wasn't as good as the first one. Benedict Cumberbatch is a great, great actor, and I want to see him in more stuff as well as Zachary Quinto. Excellent actors both of them!

Benedicts role was very cool as well - his Klingon moment was awesome! Looking forward to the next one!
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« Reply #498 on: June 09, 2013, 05:01:51 PM »

I was there for the very first Star Trek show, and I'll be there for the last one they make(if that ever happens)

But putting myself in the minority, I don't like Kirk or Spock in this movie. Scotty, Bones, protagonist, all fantastic jobs.
But the way Kirk is played is far to juvenile to suspend any disbelief. I just can't see a guy like Kirk(in this movie)
Handling the fates of Klingon-Federation empires.
I know tongue in cheek moments are a Star Trek staple, but in this movie it just came across as silly and totally unbelievable.

I hope the next one will do away with the teen-age actions of Kirk, and put some believability back in the Role...aka; Patrick Stewart

Its the early years I know that, but can you imagine a guy like Kirk, in this movie, being given command of anything other than a
Shuttle bus driver between outposts on a planet full of Tribbles.
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« Reply #499 on: June 10, 2013, 05:00:29 AM »

Quote from: Arclight on June 09, 2013, 05:01:51 PM

I was there for the very first Star Trek show, and I'll be there for the last one they make(if that ever happens)

But putting myself in the minority, I don't like Kirk or Spock in this movie. Scotty, Bones, protagonist, all fantastic jobs.
But the way Kirk is played is far to juvenile to suspend any disbelief. I just can't see a guy like Kirk(in this movie)
Handling the fates of Klingon-Federation empires.
I know tongue in cheek moments are a Star Trek staple, but in this movie it just came across as silly and totally unbelievable.

I hope the next one will do away with the teen-age actions of Kirk, and put some believability back in the Role...aka; Patrick Stewart

Its the early years I know that, but can you imagine a guy like Kirk, in this movie, being given command of anything other than a
Shuttle bus driver between outposts on a planet full of Tribbles.

But Kirk is the protagonist.
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« Reply #500 on: June 10, 2013, 04:25:42 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on June 10, 2013, 05:00:29 AM

Quote from: Arclight on June 09, 2013, 05:01:51 PM

I was there for the very first Star Trek show, and I'll be there for the last one they make(if that ever happens)

But putting myself in the minority, I don't like Kirk or Spock in this movie. Scotty, Bones, protagonist, all fantastic jobs.
But the way Kirk is played is far to juvenile to suspend any disbelief. I just can't see a guy like Kirk(in this movie)
Handling the fates of Klingon-Federation empires.
I know tongue in cheek moments are a Star Trek staple, but in this movie it just came across as silly and totally unbelievable.

I hope the next one will do away with the teen-age actions of Kirk, and put some believability back in the Role...aka; Patrick Stewart

Its the early years I know that, but can you imagine a guy like Kirk, in this movie, being given command of anything other than a
Shuttle bus driver between outposts on a planet full of Tribbles.

But Kirk is the protagonist.

 nod I guess he is. But I always felt that the "main" character for the bad side was the protagonist. But dictionay meaning you are right. Thanks for making me look it up and see that I've been using the word wrong.  thumbsup
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« Reply #501 on: June 10, 2013, 04:58:06 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on June 10, 2013, 04:25:42 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on June 10, 2013, 05:00:29 AM

Quote from: Arclight on June 09, 2013, 05:01:51 PM

I was there for the very first Star Trek show, and I'll be there for the last one they make(if that ever happens)

But putting myself in the minority, I don't like Kirk or Spock in this movie. Scotty, Bones, protagonist, all fantastic jobs.
But the way Kirk is played is far to juvenile to suspend any disbelief. I just can't see a guy like Kirk(in this movie)
Handling the fates of Klingon-Federation empires.
I know tongue in cheek moments are a Star Trek staple, but in this movie it just came across as silly and totally unbelievable.

I hope the next one will do away with the teen-age actions of Kirk, and put some believability back in the Role...aka; Patrick Stewart

Its the early years I know that, but can you imagine a guy like Kirk, in this movie, being given command of anything other than a
Shuttle bus driver between outposts on a planet full of Tribbles.

But Kirk is the protagonist.

 nod I guess he is. But I always felt that the "main" character for the bad side was the protagonist. But dictionay meaning you are right. Thanks for making me look it up and see that I've been using the word wrong.  thumbsup

You're thinking of antagonist.
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« Reply #502 on: June 10, 2013, 05:18:04 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on June 10, 2013, 04:25:42 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on June 10, 2013, 05:00:29 AM

Quote from: Arclight on June 09, 2013, 05:01:51 PM

I was there for the very first Star Trek show, and I'll be there for the last one they make(if that ever happens)

But putting myself in the minority, I don't like Kirk or Spock in this movie. Scotty, Bones, protagonist, all fantastic jobs.
But the way Kirk is played is far to juvenile to suspend any disbelief. I just can't see a guy like Kirk(in this movie)
Handling the fates of Klingon-Federation empires.
I know tongue in cheek moments are a Star Trek staple, but in this movie it just came across as silly and totally unbelievable.

I hope the next one will do away with the teen-age actions of Kirk, and put some believability back in the Role...aka; Patrick Stewart

Its the early years I know that, but can you imagine a guy like Kirk, in this movie, being given command of anything other than a
Shuttle bus driver between outposts on a planet full of Tribbles.

But Kirk is the protagonist.

 nod I guess he is. But I always felt that the "main" character for the bad side was the protagonist. But dictionay meaning you are right. Thanks for making me look it up and see that I've been using the word wrong.  thumbsup

you've been using wrong instead of protagonist?
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« Reply #503 on: June 11, 2013, 04:55:49 AM »

I watched this evening, and my take is that it's a Trek-flavored action film. 

Spoiler for Hiden:
First off, apparently no one has ever heard of perimeter security.  Not Starfleet, not the Klingons, not the top secret military facilities off of Jupiter.

Second, I understand they're trying to pull on the old Khan hallmarks of the reactor scene, old Spock, etc., but to me, it just seemed cheap.  I don't have the emotional attachment to these versions of the characters, and they don't even have that great a connection to each other yet.  It just seemed to me to be trying to tug on my emotional and nostalgia strings, and failing.

Also, why the hell do we need Khan to survive when we have 72 others genetically engineered to be just like him in cryotubes?  To the point where we're pulling one of them out to stick Kirk in it.  Was there some rare blood type establishing dialogue that I missed?

And then, true to the worst of Trek Reset Buttons, we flip the script on the death of a major character, only to undo it by the time that the credits roll.  We know that they're not going to let either of them die this early in a reboot, so it just seemed cheesy to try and recreate that moment.

All in all, it's decent as an action film to today's standards, and enjoyable as such, but it's not the old Trek, and I wish they'd stop trying to tie it back to the old stuff.  Boldly go where no one has gone before.
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« Reply #504 on: June 11, 2013, 05:05:03 AM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 11, 2013, 04:55:49 AM

Spoiler for Hiden:
And then, true to the worst of Trek Reset Buttons, we flip the script on the death of a major character, only to undo it by the time that the credits roll.  We know that they're not going to let either of them die this early in a reboot, so it just seemed cheesy to try and recreate that moment.

not only that, but the solution was telegraphed in advance:

Spoiler for Hiden:
when they said Khan's blood was regenerating the dead cells of the tribble
.
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« Reply #505 on: June 11, 2013, 05:59:24 AM »

Pretty much.
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« Reply #506 on: June 11, 2013, 01:10:11 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 11, 2013, 05:05:03 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 11, 2013, 04:55:49 AM

Spoiler for Hiden:
And then, true to the worst of Trek Reset Buttons, we flip the script on the death of a major character, only to undo it by the time that the credits roll.  We know that they're not going to let either of them die this early in a reboot, so it just seemed cheesy to try and recreate that moment.

not only that, but the solution was telegraphed in advance:

Spoiler for Hiden:
when they said Khan's blood was regenerating the dead cells of the tribble
.

Well, you have to lay it out in advance, or it's even cheaper, like Deus Ex Machina.  You just try to couch it in a throw away moment and hope it doesn't stick in the watcher's brain until you need it to be called back.
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« Reply #507 on: June 11, 2013, 03:15:59 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 11, 2013, 04:55:49 AM

I watched this evening, and my take is that it's a Trek-flavored action film. 

Spoiler for Hiden:
First off, apparently no one has ever heard of perimeter security.  Not Starfleet, not the Klingons, not the top secret military facilities off of Jupiter.

Second, I understand they're trying to pull on the old Khan hallmarks of the reactor scene, old Spock, etc., but to me, it just seemed cheap.  I don't have the emotional attachment to these versions of the characters, and they don't even have that great a connection to each other yet.  It just seemed to me to be trying to tug on my emotional and nostalgia strings, and failing.

Also, why the hell do we need Khan to survive when we have 72 others genetically engineered to be just like him in cryotubes?  To the point where we're pulling one of them out to stick Kirk in it.  Was there some rare blood type establishing dialogue that I missed?

And then, true to the worst of Trek Reset Buttons, we flip the script on the death of a major character, only to undo it by the time that the credits roll.  We know that they're not going to let either of them die this early in a reboot, so it just seemed cheesy to try and recreate that moment.

All in all, it's decent as an action film to today's standards, and enjoyable as such, but it's not the old Trek, and I wish they'd stop trying to tie it back to the old stuff.  Boldly go where no one has gone before.

Perhaps all of these tie backs to the old stuff are actually due to a broken time line in the act of correcting itself.  I do find it humorous that you emphasize your point with an old stuff quote.  icon_wink
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« Reply #508 on: June 11, 2013, 05:57:59 PM »

That's the thing, the quote was used at the end speech.  Not only that, it's the "no one" version of TNG and forward rather than the TOS "no man" quote.
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« Reply #509 on: June 12, 2013, 02:38:31 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 11, 2013, 01:10:11 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 11, 2013, 05:05:03 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 11, 2013, 04:55:49 AM

Spoiler for Hiden:
And then, true to the worst of Trek Reset Buttons, we flip the script on the death of a major character, only to undo it by the time that the credits roll.  We know that they're not going to let either of them die this early in a reboot, so it just seemed cheesy to try and recreate that moment.

not only that, but the solution was telegraphed in advance:

Spoiler for Hiden:
when they said Khan's blood was regenerating the dead cells of the tribble
.

Well, you have to lay it out in advance, or it's even cheaper, like Deus Ex Machina.  You just try to couch it in a throw away moment and hope it doesn't stick in the watcher's brain until you need it to be called back.

Actually, in my film class in college, my professor told us that the screenwriters hope such "throw away" moments aren't forgotten.  Foreshadowing and all that, so it's not so much Deus Ex Machina.
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« Reply #510 on: June 12, 2013, 02:39:15 AM »

Quote from: Arclight on June 10, 2013, 04:25:42 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on June 10, 2013, 05:00:29 AM

Quote from: Arclight on June 09, 2013, 05:01:51 PM

I was there for the very first Star Trek show, and I'll be there for the last one they make(if that ever happens)

But putting myself in the minority, I don't like Kirk or Spock in this movie. Scotty, Bones, protagonist, all fantastic jobs.
But the way Kirk is played is far to juvenile to suspend any disbelief. I just can't see a guy like Kirk(in this movie)
Handling the fates of Klingon-Federation empires.
I know tongue in cheek moments are a Star Trek staple, but in this movie it just came across as silly and totally unbelievable.

I hope the next one will do away with the teen-age actions of Kirk, and put some believability back in the Role...aka; Patrick Stewart

Its the early years I know that, but can you imagine a guy like Kirk, in this movie, being given command of anything other than a
Shuttle bus driver between outposts on a planet full of Tribbles.

But Kirk is the protagonist.

 nod I guess he is. But I always felt that the "main" character for the bad side was the protagonist. But dictionay meaning you are right. Thanks for making me look it up and see that I've been using the word wrong.  thumbsup

You're welcome!
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« Reply #511 on: June 12, 2013, 01:52:19 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on June 12, 2013, 02:38:31 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 11, 2013, 01:10:11 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 11, 2013, 05:05:03 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 11, 2013, 04:55:49 AM

Spoiler for Hiden:
And then, true to the worst of Trek Reset Buttons, we flip the script on the death of a major character, only to undo it by the time that the credits roll.  We know that they're not going to let either of them die this early in a reboot, so it just seemed cheesy to try and recreate that moment.

not only that, but the solution was telegraphed in advance:

Spoiler for Hiden:
when they said Khan's blood was regenerating the dead cells of the tribble
.

Well, you have to lay it out in advance, or it's even cheaper, like Deus Ex Machina.  You just try to couch it in a throw away moment and hope it doesn't stick in the watcher's brain until you need it to be called back.

Actually, in my film class in college, my professor told us that the screenwriters hope such "throw away" moments aren't forgotten.  Foreshadowing and all that, so it's not so much Deus Ex Machina.

Well, right, that's what I was saying.  Without the little moment it is Deus Ex Machina.  However, you want the audience to forget the throw away moment in between the time it gets introduced and the time it gets called back, otherwise it's no longer foreshadowing, it's making your story predictable.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The tribble moment in the example is not given a lot of weight, because otherwise there would be absolutely no tension when Kirk dies (nevermind that you know he won't die for good in the second movie), since the audience will all be thinking, "Just use the blood like you did on the tribble."  But without the tribble set up, having someone say, "You know, Kahn's blood can regenerate..." would be eye-rollingly convenient (Deus Ex Machina).  The way it's done, the seed is planted and comes to fruition later.
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« Reply #512 on: June 13, 2013, 12:05:11 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 12, 2013, 01:52:19 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on June 12, 2013, 02:38:31 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 11, 2013, 01:10:11 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 11, 2013, 05:05:03 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on June 11, 2013, 04:55:49 AM

Spoiler for Hiden:
And then, true to the worst of Trek Reset Buttons, we flip the script on the death of a major character, only to undo it by the time that the credits roll.  We know that they're not going to let either of them die this early in a reboot, so it just seemed cheesy to try and recreate that moment.

not only that, but the solution was telegraphed in advance:

Spoiler for Hiden:
when they said Khan's blood was regenerating the dead cells of the tribble
.

Well, you have to lay it out in advance, or it's even cheaper, like Deus Ex Machina.  You just try to couch it in a throw away moment and hope it doesn't stick in the watcher's brain until you need it to be called back.

Actually, in my film class in college, my professor told us that the screenwriters hope such "throw away" moments aren't forgotten.  Foreshadowing and all that, so it's not so much Deus Ex Machina.

Well, right, that's what I was saying.  Without the little moment it is Deus Ex Machina.  However, you want the audience to forget the throw away moment in between the time it gets introduced and the time it gets called back, otherwise it's no longer foreshadowing, it's making your story predictable.

Spoiler for Hiden:
The tribble moment in the example is not given a lot of weight, because otherwise there would be absolutely no tension when Kirk dies (nevermind that you know he won't die for good in the second movie), since the audience will all be thinking, "Just use the blood like you did on the tribble."  But without the tribble set up, having someone say, "You know, Kahn's blood can regenerate..." would be eye-rollingly convenient (Deus Ex Machina).  The way it's done, the seed is planted and comes to fruition later.

Ah, sorry, I totally misread what you wrote.  smile
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« Reply #513 on: June 13, 2013, 03:14:10 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 12, 2013, 01:52:19 PM


Spoiler for Hiden:
The tribble moment in the example is not given a lot of weight, because otherwise there would be absolutely no tension when Kirk dies (nevermind that you know he won't die for good in the second movie), since the audience will all be thinking, "Just use the blood like you did on the tribble."  But without the tribble set up, having someone say, "You know, Kahn's blood can regenerate..." would be eye-rollingly convenient (Deus Ex Machina).  The way it's done, the seed is planted and comes to fruition later.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Of course the audience knows about the blood from the very beginning of the film when Rose Tyler's boyfriend gives it to his daughter
.
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« Reply #514 on: June 13, 2013, 01:58:16 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on June 13, 2013, 03:14:10 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 12, 2013, 01:52:19 PM


Spoiler for Hiden:
The tribble moment in the example is not given a lot of weight, because otherwise there would be absolutely no tension when Kirk dies (nevermind that you know he won't die for good in the second movie), since the audience will all be thinking, "Just use the blood like you did on the tribble."  But without the tribble set up, having someone say, "You know, Kahn's blood can regenerate..." would be eye-rollingly convenient (Deus Ex Machina).  The way it's done, the seed is planted and comes to fruition later.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Of course the audience knows about the blood from the very beginning of the film when Rose Tyler's boyfriend gives it to his daughter
.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Yeah, but it's not clear what Mickey is giving her, exactly.  Or where it came from.  That only becomes clear with hindsight.

BTW, my daughter is very excited to see this movie because I told her Mickey's in it.  I didn't have the heart to tell her she won't exactly be happy to have seen him.
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« Reply #515 on: June 16, 2013, 03:46:43 AM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
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« Reply #516 on: June 16, 2013, 03:49:12 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 13, 2013, 01:58:16 PM

Quote from: Teggy on June 13, 2013, 03:14:10 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on June 12, 2013, 01:52:19 PM


Spoiler for Hiden:
The tribble moment in the example is not given a lot of weight, because otherwise there would be absolutely no tension when Kirk dies (nevermind that you know he won't die for good in the second movie), since the audience will all be thinking, "Just use the blood like you did on the tribble."  But without the tribble set up, having someone say, "You know, Kahn's blood can regenerate..." would be eye-rollingly convenient (Deus Ex Machina).  The way it's done, the seed is planted and comes to fruition later.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Of course the audience knows about the blood from the very beginning of the film when Rose Tyler's boyfriend gives it to his daughter
.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Yeah, but it's not clear what Mickey is giving her, exactly.  Or where it came from.  That only becomes clear with hindsight.

BTW, my daughter is very excited to see this movie because I told her Mickey's in it.  I didn't have the heart to tell her she won't exactly be happy to have seen him.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Unless I am completely remembering this wrong, don't they show him drawing his blood from his arm?
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« Reply #517 on: June 17, 2013, 04:02:15 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 08, 2013, 08:04:46 PM


Anyways - I can tell that I'm probably the only one who saw a ton of commentary on the USA in this movie? Drone killings (The torpedos), moral ambiguity in missions, use of lethal force, secret agencies and secret prisons where you just store people without a trial? I can't believe that wasn't on purpose?


Yes, and that is classic Star Trek. TOS was as topical and moralistic as any network TV show could be in its day and I was impressed that Abrams kept the new movie relevant to contemporary controversies. That's really the heart and soul of Star Trek. I was worried that it was going to be a shallow, straight-ahead action movie with a ST theme. Some of the fight scenes went on longer than they should have but the groundlings eat that stuff up, so that's ok.

All in all, I liked it better than I expected to. The Spock-Uhura relationship just doesn't work. And
Spoiler for Hiden:
making the Enterprise equally capable in space, in the atmosphere, and under the sea was hard to swallow. The pressure differentials alone are staggering. At least give me some mumbo-jumbo about your hull integrity field!  Tongue

After two films, I think McCoy is the weakest actor. He mouths the lines but he doesn't inhabit the role -- I'm always conscious that it's some guy trying to be DeForest Kelly. Simon Pegg is awesome as Scotty, though. I know his over-the-top, scene-stealing comic relief is a cheap shot but I eat it up anyway. The Spock-Kirk relationship is starting to gel, and that's impressive without the advantage of a weekly TV show to develop the nuances.
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« Reply #518 on: June 17, 2013, 03:48:12 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on June 17, 2013, 04:02:15 AM

Quote from: Razgon on June 08, 2013, 08:04:46 PM


Anyways - I can tell that I'm probably the only one who saw a ton of commentary on the USA in this movie? Drone killings (The torpedos), moral ambiguity in missions, use of lethal force, secret agencies and secret prisons where you just store people without a trial? I can't believe that wasn't on purpose?


Yes, and that is classic Star Trek. TOS was as topical and moralistic as any network TV show could be in its day and I was impressed that Abrams kept the new movie relevant to contemporary controversies. That's really the heart and soul of Star Trek. I was worried that it was going to be a shallow, straight-ahead action movie with a ST theme. Some of the fight scenes went on longer than they should have but the groundlings eat that stuff up, so that's ok.

All in all, I liked it better than I expected to. The Spock-Uhura relationship just doesn't work. And
Spoiler for Hiden:
making the Enterprise equally capable in space, in the atmosphere, and under the sea was hard to swallow. The pressure differentials alone are staggering. At least give me some mumbo-jumbo about your hull integrity field!  Tongue

After two films, I think McCoy is the weakest actor. He mouths the lines but he doesn't inhabit the role -- I'm always conscious that it's some guy trying to be DeForest Kelly. Simon Pegg is awesome as Scotty, though. I know his over-the-top, scene-stealing comic relief is a cheap shot but I eat it up anyway. The Spock-Kirk relationship is starting to gel, and that's impressive without the advantage of a weekly TV show to develop the nuances.

And while I'm a big fan of Simon Pegg, I generally have hated him as Scotty.  He was a little better this go 'round, but I'm still not liking him in the role.
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« Reply #519 on: June 17, 2013, 03:59:10 PM »

I agree with you about McCoy.  Urban is playing him as a spot-on DeForest Kelley, but what's the point in doing that?  He's not making him his own character and that's completely limiting his role. 

I absolutely hated Pegg's Scotty in the first movie where he didn't have a single line that wasn't meant to be comic relief.  I was glad to see that he was given some more serious stuff this time around.  I know he's a comic actor, but Scotty needs to be more than that and I hope he continues to be somebody we can take seriously. 

They tried to force a Spock/Kirk friendship on us in this movie.  It's almost like I missed the movie where they became close friends.  I do think Quinto and Pine are good fits for their roles. 
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