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Author Topic: [TV] The Walking Dead Season 5  (Read 6013 times)
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rittchard
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« Reply #200 on: March 26, 2015, 09:36:50 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 24, 2015, 12:50:23 AM

Quote from: rittchard on March 23, 2015, 10:29:05 PM

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 23, 2015, 08:27:16 PM

I didn't agree with the killing notion either of course.  He didn't provoke the fight though.  I didn't find his "desire to take him out" too strong, I found his desire to do something just right, and the rest was in response to Mrs. Softy (going to get everyone killed) Mayor.

I guess the question is if you don't kill him, what do you do?  I guess you can try to keep him locked up somewhere, but this becomes a resource drain for someone who contributes nothing.  He still needs food and water, plus someone will have to watch over him.  Longer-term it's just a lose lose to keep a guy like this around.  Think about it, this is a guy that in the freaking APOCALYPSE is still beating his wife and kids.  Seriously if you not only can't be useful but are also hurting good people, you don't deserve to exist.  Exile is also a bad idea, because best case is he dies and becomes a zombie you have to fight, worst case is he finds another group and convinces them to raid you.  

Yeah I know I sound harsh, but I think that's what makes this show, this season (and post-apoc fiction in general) so interesting.  As Rick said, even though they are living in this illusory safe zone, the world is still one where only the fit survive.  If the zombies don't get you, evil humans will.  Rules of civilization and morality have to be re-thought when you're dealing with a world where people are coming back from the dead and eating each other for sustenance.  I think as viewers we still want to relate to everything that happens from our current societal point of view, but the show by its very premise has already changed all that.

Side note, someone during Talking Dead had a great question, how would Season 1 Rick handle Season 5 Rick?  Love thinking about that one...

Every one of the points you brought up about what to do about the guy could also be applied to corporal punishment today.  

Keep in mind, the guy was useful.  It was one of Mayor Mayor's key points as to why you don't kill him.  That, and the whole keeping society going thing.

But here's a question: The world is now the same kind of rough place it was before humans started congregating and creating a society.  Okay, it also has zombies.  But why is it wrong to try to rebuild?  Isn't that the point?  If the world stays at the same level of insanity and never changes, never gets better, humanity will die out.

A lot of these folks are going through PTSD, basically.  Same as coming home from a war.  Of course, this isn't home, exactly...

It is this kind of thought process that makes this storyline so damned good.

Agreed on that last point!

On the first one, I don't think you can say every point is valid for corporal punishment.  Certainly if someone gets the chair today, they aren't going to turn into a zombie and try to bite me  icon_biggrin  And you really can't equate our society where the vast majority is law abiding citizens with the post-apoc society that has cannibals and psychopaths.  Point is it's a completely different set of circumstances.

There's nothing wrong with trying to rebuild society, but I think the definition of "society" needs to be adapted and suitable to the present circumstances.  I think what the writers are arguing is that holding onto an antiquated notion of society is likely going to get you and everyone you love killed.  Obviously there are limits to what is "acceptable" (e.g. cannibalism BAD!) but what worked in the past (wife beating asshat gets a pass because he's a doctor) probably does not work in this world.  It's not insanity so much as adaptation to an insane amount of change. 
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #201 on: March 27, 2015, 02:05:12 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on March 26, 2015, 09:36:50 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 24, 2015, 12:50:23 AM

Quote from: rittchard on March 23, 2015, 10:29:05 PM

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 23, 2015, 08:27:16 PM

I didn't agree with the killing notion either of course.  He didn't provoke the fight though.  I didn't find his "desire to take him out" too strong, I found his desire to do something just right, and the rest was in response to Mrs. Softy (going to get everyone killed) Mayor.

I guess the question is if you don't kill him, what do you do?  I guess you can try to keep him locked up somewhere, but this becomes a resource drain for someone who contributes nothing.  He still needs food and water, plus someone will have to watch over him.  Longer-term it's just a lose lose to keep a guy like this around.  Think about it, this is a guy that in the freaking APOCALYPSE is still beating his wife and kids.  Seriously if you not only can't be useful but are also hurting good people, you don't deserve to exist.  Exile is also a bad idea, because best case is he dies and becomes a zombie you have to fight, worst case is he finds another group and convinces them to raid you.  

Yeah I know I sound harsh, but I think that's what makes this show, this season (and post-apoc fiction in general) so interesting.  As Rick said, even though they are living in this illusory safe zone, the world is still one where only the fit survive.  If the zombies don't get you, evil humans will.  Rules of civilization and morality have to be re-thought when you're dealing with a world where people are coming back from the dead and eating each other for sustenance.  I think as viewers we still want to relate to everything that happens from our current societal point of view, but the show by its very premise has already changed all that.

Side note, someone during Talking Dead had a great question, how would Season 1 Rick handle Season 5 Rick?  Love thinking about that one...

Every one of the points you brought up about what to do about the guy could also be applied to corporal punishment today.  

Keep in mind, the guy was useful.  It was one of Mayor Mayor's key points as to why you don't kill him.  That, and the whole keeping society going thing.

But here's a question: The world is now the same kind of rough place it was before humans started congregating and creating a society.  Okay, it also has zombies.  But why is it wrong to try to rebuild?  Isn't that the point?  If the world stays at the same level of insanity and never changes, never gets better, humanity will die out.

A lot of these folks are going through PTSD, basically.  Same as coming home from a war.  Of course, this isn't home, exactly...

It is this kind of thought process that makes this storyline so damned good.

Agreed on that last point!

On the first one, I don't think you can say every point is valid for corporal punishment.  Certainly if someone gets the chair today, they aren't going to turn into a zombie and try to bite me  icon_biggrin  And you really can't equate our society where the vast majority is law abiding citizens with the post-apoc society that has cannibals and psychopaths.  Point is it's a completely different set of circumstances.

There's nothing wrong with trying to rebuild society, but I think the definition of "society" needs to be adapted and suitable to the present circumstances.  I think what the writers are arguing is that holding onto an antiquated notion of society is likely going to get you and everyone you love killed.  Obviously there are limits to what is "acceptable" (e.g. cannibalism BAD!) but what worked in the past (wife beating asshat gets a pass because he's a doctor) probably does not work in this world.  It's not insanity so much as adaptation to an insane amount of change. 

Well, if you're going to be that literal, no not all points apply. I was thinking more along the lines of "Let him walk and he'll be a threat" kind of thing.

And I don't know that the society of the past isn't something to shoot for again.  I don't know that it wouldn't work again.  I do know that without some sort of organization or group that isn't nomadic, humanity will likely die out.

OTOH, it's interesting that the person putting this together is a former politician.  That's one aspect of the old society that needed major retooling (or de-tooling) for sure.

Of course, there's one thing that is very different from the old days, no matter how you slice it.  I'd be interested to see deathbed policies and burial procedures.
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« Reply #202 on: March 30, 2015, 06:09:02 AM »

Season Finale and nobody's talking.  Guess nobody liked it.

I liked it, but it felt rushed.
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« Reply #203 on: March 30, 2015, 02:00:51 PM »

It ended less than 12 hours ago.  Give it a chance!

I liked it a lot.  Maybe a little rushed, but I've seen worse from this show.  They did a really good job teasing us with the characters whose deaths had been predicted. I really thought Glenn and Daryl might be going at various points.

The deaths that did happen were a little underwhelming.  Drunko Docto was going to go at some point.  But I was really starting to like the First Husband.  Especially after he gave a speech to Maggie that was almost the same as what I said to Rittchard about nomads and dying out!

I'm happy that we're sticking with this town for next season.  I feel like there's a lot more to explore there.  I kind of hope the Wolves don't bring it all down right away, too.

Those guys seem like a nice level of wackadoodle.  Like serial killers but worse.  The idea of purposefully turning people just gets under my skin.  And it is a nice counterpoint to the rebuilding society group, too.  These nuts are bringing humanity down, one by one.  Or something, I wasn't quite clear on what they think their purpose was, exactly, from that opening speech.

But the walkers getting in thing seemed a little convenient, storytelling-wise.  As did the idea that they bought it because the guy remembered he asked the priest to shut the gate. 

And seriously, fuck the priest now.  I get that he feels he's off-path and is basically abandoning what connected him to society, but I find it a bit of a stretch to believe that he said, "Well, I don't feel like I can be a priest anymore, so let's just fuck with everybody and be more evil."

Finally, they had a whole town.  Why the hell did they put the wife beater in a house across the street from his wife?!
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« Reply #204 on: March 30, 2015, 02:21:50 PM »

Hey, we used to have discussions the minute it ended.  It's starting become like 24, waning off over time Tongue
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naednek
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« Reply #205 on: March 30, 2015, 02:23:36 PM »

Speaking of wolves...

So next season is going to parallel the 3 little pigs and wolf nursery rhyme.

Awesome, now my 5 year old and I can watch together!
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« Reply #206 on: March 30, 2015, 03:43:24 PM »

Quote from: naednek on March 30, 2015, 02:23:36 PM

Speaking of wolves...

So next season is going to parallel the 3 little pigs and wolf nursery rhyme.

Awesome, now my 5 year old and I can watch together!

Ha!  That never occurred to me.  That's good.

Can someone tell me if the the Wolves were in the comics?
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« Reply #207 on: March 30, 2015, 04:27:06 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 30, 2015, 03:43:24 PM

Quote from: naednek on March 30, 2015, 02:23:36 PM

Speaking of wolves...

So next season is going to parallel the 3 little pigs and wolf nursery rhyme.

Awesome, now my 5 year old and I can watch together!

Ha!  That never occurred to me.  That's good.

Can someone tell me if the the Wolves were in the comics?

I don't recall them there, but Noah/whole hospital thing wasn't there either. The wolves could be a combination of a couple of things from the comic though.
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« Reply #208 on: March 30, 2015, 10:29:25 PM »

Sorry I was busier this morning than expected.  I loved loved loved this finale, so much packed into a 90 minute show!!!  Honestly I think I barely took a breath for the entire hour I was watching the episode.  I really thought Glenn might bite it, Aaron too, and for a second I even thought Rick might go.  Can you imagine if they had killed Rick off in that sequence; that seriously would have been one of the biggest twists/moments in TV history.  I would have been bummed but the story possibilities killing Rick would be incredible, particularly since they would diverge further from the comic.  Who would be the new leader?  Morgan?  Carol?  Michonne?  Speaking of Carol, she was freaking awesome even in limited capacity.  I love how she dressed Rick down ("sunshine!") and it was such a great counterpoint to high-and-mighty Rick exiling her a while back.   The way she made Pete almost pee in his pants was so sweet, as was her declaration that all they'd need to deal with these "children" were knives.  She's in full command of her faculties and her new-found confidence, and she's pretty much the only one 100% completely thinking strategically.   If this were Survivor, she'd be my easy pick to win.  I also loved the short scene with Sasha lying in the grave.  I thought it was simple and creepy but beautifully shot, which just made it that much more disturbing. 

Wolves!!!  I don't remember them in the comics, but I'm pretty sure someone had said they were in the comics too.  I don't think they were a big deal, though, and that's kind of what it sounded like the implication was from Scott Gimple's letter on next season.  The next major threat should probably be Negan but hopefully that's back half of next season. 

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« Reply #209 on: March 31, 2015, 12:02:40 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on March 30, 2015, 10:29:25 PM

Sorry I was busier this morning than expected.  I loved loved loved this finale, so much packed into a 90 minute show!!!  Honestly I think I barely took a breath for the entire hour I was watching the episode.  I really thought Glenn might bite it, Aaron too, and for a second I even thought Rick might go.  Can you imagine if they had killed Rick off in that sequence; that seriously would have been one of the biggest twists/moments in TV history.  I would have been bummed but the story possibilities killing Rick would be incredible, particularly since they would diverge further from the comic.  Who would be the new leader?  Morgan?  Carol?  Michonne?  Speaking of Carol, she was freaking awesome even in limited capacity.  I love how she dressed Rick down ("sunshine!") and it was such a great counterpoint to high-and-mighty Rick exiling her a while back.   The way she made Pete almost pee in his pants was so sweet, as was her declaration that all they'd need to deal with these "children" were knives.  She's in full command of her faculties and her new-found confidence, and she's pretty much the only one 100% completely thinking strategically.   If this were Survivor, she'd be my easy pick to win.  I also loved the short scene with Sasha lying in the grave.  I thought it was simple and creepy but beautifully shot, which just made it that much more disturbing. 

Wolves!!!  I don't remember them in the comics, but I'm pretty sure someone had said they were in the comics too.  I don't think they were a big deal, though, and that's kind of what it sounded like the implication was from Scott Gimple's letter on next season.  The next major threat should probably be Negan but hopefully that's back half of next season. 



Carol is overthinking strategically, which is what everyone but her was telling Rick.  She can only think Us Vs Them, even when that doesn't really apply.  She's so far past her mental schism that she can rationalize it and turn it on and off when necessary.  Just like a sociopath.  She is in full control of what faculties she has, but not all of them are present.

She would win Survivor, though.
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« Reply #210 on: March 31, 2015, 03:50:49 AM »

I never watch it until the next day (too many commercials to watch in real time), and often not for several days, so I always chime in late.

Quote from: rittchard on March 30, 2015, 10:29:25 PM

Sorry I was busier this morning than expected.  I loved loved loved this finale, so much packed into a 90 minute show!!!  Honestly I think I barely took a breath for the entire hour I was watching the episode.  I really thought Glenn might bite it, Aaron too, and for a second I even thought Rick might go.  Can you imagine if they had killed Rick off in that sequence; that seriously would have been one of the biggest twists/moments in TV history. 

The cool thing about his show is that you never know. I really thought Glen was a goner.

Between the cookie scene from a few weeks ago and this episode's casserole scene, Carol is now my favorite Deader.

Overall it was a great season ender. Wrapped up a lot of conflicts without strangling the story arc, with enough bonus gore to send my wife out of the room twice. The zombie head in the car door was particularly inspired, and the meat hook zombies were just plain sick.
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