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Author Topic: [Books]JK Rowling to publish first adult novel  (Read 1871 times)
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2012, 07:35:55 PM »

YA books that you read as a kid are not the same as the YA category now.  Again, that's where the money is, so that's where everything is getting published.  You're putting old labels on them that just don't apply today.


None of the "rules" that purge mentions apply any more.  And they will go over the edge. 

I can't remember how old Harry was when the first Necroscope started, but if Harry was a slightly younger hero (even into his twenties), it would absolutely be published as a Young Adult novel today.  And nothing would have to be changed.  It would make a lot of money, too, I think.

Quote from: Crusis on February 24, 2012, 06:12:34 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 24, 2012, 04:08:41 PM

Quote from: Crusis on February 24, 2012, 04:40:46 AM

I just don't care for YA books.

If you have not read all of the YA books, you cannot make that statement.  You've lumped all of them together and assumed things about the category that just aren't true.

I haven't read a stack of romance books either - don't care for the genre. Sell me on romance.

And I assure you, I can make the statement that I don't care for YA books. I also don't care for porcupines, people in red cowls, and psychotic serial killer clowns. Man I hate those guys. The makeup, the axes, the attitude, the crazy eyes, and bad make up. It's just a bad combination IMO.


The things you mention are very specific (apart from people in red cowls, but I'll take that to mean you don't like when people where red cowls, not that every single person who wears a red cowl is to be dismissed, though I know you'll say you don't mean that, but I'm not talking hyperbole). 

Young Adult is not the same thing.  Obviously, I can make any statement I want.  The moon is made of fishing scattledebompleboo.  I said it, but I sound like an idiot.  By stating in a general sweep that you don't like Young Adult books, you're showing your ignorance.

Not liking Romance is not the same thing.   In some bookstores, Romance novels are a subsection of Historical Fiction, which itself is a subsection of Fiction.  What you are doing is the equivalent of saying you don't like Historical Fiction when you don't like Romance.  But it's not even the same, since YA is where everything is being published now, so really it's the equivalent of saying you don't like Fiction.
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« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2012, 03:00:23 AM »

Pug, I haven't read that book, so I can't exactly comment on it. Doesn't it fall into my "as a general rule, I don't read YA" books? slywink

The Necroscope series, authored by by Brian Lumley, is far from necrophiliac fiction - I was illustrating the difference - where the author can use whatever situations, and describe them as they see fit to get their point across, doesn't have to worry about the age of the audience.

A theatrical example is Alien Vs. Predator - the controversy is that the publisher wanted a larger audience, so it went from being a horror / suspense where they didn't *have to* pull any punches, to something so watered down that rather than being the geekgasm people were hoping for to a widely disregarded film. It had more problems than an aversion to on-screen gore, but why are you going to be afraid of a tiger without teeth or claws?

Look, you want to delve into YA, good for you. I don't bother with it at this point in my life. I'm not condemning the series, but I'm kind of tired of the guaranteed happy endings. Yes, the books can have an edge. No, not all books I have read, and currently read, are edgy, filled with sex and/or violence. The "coming of age" stuff isn't appealing to me. I've read my fair share of plucky heros, and the underdog. Learning coping skills with real life? It isn't compelling to me. I want to read something that doesn't define itself by restriction.

I don't see why:

A) my interest in Rowling writing something without boundaries is a bad thing
B) I haven't had any interest in picking up the HP books. I tried reading a bit of the second book, IIRC, and it got put down because I didn't have enough interest in the characters.
C) While I've watched the entire series of movies, I did so because my GF was interested in seeing them.
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« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2012, 03:10:18 AM »

Quote from: bullwinkle
...

Harry was a kid for few chapters. His dead adult spirit was explaining his history for half the first book to Alex in the office of his dead boss - and eventually possesses Alexs' body when ?Boris Dragosani? kills Alex's spirit.

I haven't read the book in 15 years, so my memory is fuzzy. Books, much like media, is progressing, but do recall the scene where two of the thugs from Slitherin ass-rape Harry in the showers, describing the blood running down his legs as he's left broken in an abandoned shower? It's just not the same thing. There is a softness that's added to violence, and a damper put on sex.

Also, romance novels are a subset of Fiction, not just historical fiction. I think you might be confusing smutty books from the 70s and 80s with Fabio on the cover. Tongue

Anyways, I don't really think my point is being heard, and with the limited time I have in life, I barely have time to read the books I DO get to. I'm on-call every other week, I have a kid and a GF, and I have to find time to play and review games. I don't need to cast a wider net.

If there is a book worth reading that will impress me, and it is in the YA section, and doesn't tie itself to coming-of-age tones that are the pillars that support the story arc, feel free to recommend them.

When I get to read them I'll let you know what I thought of them. smile
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« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2012, 04:18:59 AM »

You're being the equivalent of a toddler who says he hates a food he's never tried.  It's fine for someone to not like YA fiction--it's surely not for everyone--but you don't even know what YA fiction is

You may be interested in reading this author's blog post of Why I Write Young Adult Fiction.  Strike that, you're probably not interested.  Ironically, the premise of the post is to address the complaints that today's YA fiction is too dark or too mature, but in the process the author also address many of the misconceptions of the genre being expressed in this thread.
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« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2012, 10:29:56 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 24, 2012, 07:35:55 PM

By stating in a general sweep that you don't like Young Adult books, you're showing your ignorance.

Oh dear, I am?

I have tried to read YA books and I don't care for them. So how in the world is that showing my ignorance? I am not the target audience, not by a long shot. I do love that my kids grew up reading them. They also enjoyed Abarat (I did not) and even China Mieville's Un Lun Dun, which I only got about 50 pages into.

If you love YA books then more power to you. I don't love them. So less power to me.

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« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2012, 11:11:29 PM »

Quote from: Crusis on February 27, 2012, 10:29:56 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 24, 2012, 07:35:55 PM

By stating in a general sweep that you don't like Young Adult books, you're showing your ignorance.

Oh dear, I am?

I have tried to read YA books and I don't care for them. So how in the world is that showing my ignorance? I am not the target audience, not by a long shot. I do love that my kids grew up reading them. They also enjoyed Abarat (I did not) and even China Mieville's Un Lun Dun, which I only got about 50 pages into.

If you love YA books then more power to you. I don't love them. So less power to me.



Yes, you are.
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« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2012, 02:26:57 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 25, 2012, 04:18:59 AM

You're being the equivalent of a toddler who says he hates a food he's never tried.  It's fine for someone to not like YA fiction--it's surely not for everyone--but you don't even know what YA fiction is.  

You may be interested in reading this author's blog post of Why I Write Young Adult Fiction.  Strike that, you're probably not interested.  Ironically, the premise of the post is to address the complaints that today's YA fiction is too dark or too mature, but in the process the author also address many of the misconceptions of the genre being expressed in this thread.

I think the toddler found something for you to think about - perhaps your definition of YA may extend beyond the ACTUAL definition:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Young-adult fiction or young adult literature (often abbreviated as YA),[1][2] also juvenile fiction, is fiction written, published, or marketed to adolescents and young adults, approximately ages 10 to 20.[3] The Young Adult Library Services (YALSA) of the American Library Association (ALA) defines a young adult as "someone between the ages of twelve and eighteen". Authors and readers of young adult (YA) novels often define the genre as "literature written for ages ranging from ten years up to the age of twenty" (Cole). Another, though somewhat controversial, definition is that Young Adult Literature is any text being read by adolescents. Accordingly, the terms young-adult novel, juvenile novel, young-adult book, etc. refer to the works in the YA category.

YA literature shares the following fundamental elements of the fiction genre: character, plot, setting, theme, and style. However, theme and style are often subordinated to the more tangible elements of plot, setting, and character, which appeal more readily to younger readers. The vast majority of YA stories portray an adolescent, rather than an adult or child, as the protagonist.

The subject matter and story lines of YA literature are typically consistent with the age and experience of the main character, but, beyond that, YA stories span the spectrum of fiction genres. Themes in YA stories often focus on the challenges of youth, sometimes referred to as problem novels or coming-of-age novels.[4] Writing styles of YA stories range widely, from the richness of literary style to the clarity and speed of the unobtrusive and free verse.

Quote from: Find Me An Author.com
Young Adult
 Young adult novels, also sometimes called teen novels, are generally read by children anywhere from age 12 upwards. They are longer books, often 50,000 words or more. Most are contemporary stories, and often involve contemporary problems, including drugs, sex, and peer pressure i.e. popular themes are usually relevant to the problems and struggles of today's teenagers, regardless of the genre.

The problem is that you're advocating a genre defined as a type of book that deals with the shifting of youth, OF WHICH I HAVE NO INTEREST, and you assume it is because I think they are poorly written, or are uncompelling as stories worth reading.

I can't find rolly-eyes big enough.

hold on--- I think this will do.



I don't care about the tension between girls and boys, and them figuring themselves out. Whether that be overt or subliminal, the entire genre is aimed at coming to terms with child-to-adult transition. Cool. It's not going to be the same for kids nowadays as it was for myself, or even my parents.

The author of the article also makes that assumption, and then pushes the idea that violent video games (FPS) are to blame, rather than to look at parenting and how instamatic our society has become. When my kids are at an age where young adult is their interest, I will gladly pick up a book and deal with it again as an adult trying to keep a connection to my kid.

Right now? I'm enjoying the kids books. I've already lined up The Belgariad and some Tarzan books for when my son is ready to get into that. For now, I'm not pushing anything on him - other than planting the seed to enjoy reading.

I hope that clears up any assumption, when I expressed interest in potentially enjoying Rowlings talents without boundaries, and without the teenage undertones. I'm not calling you names, I'm not bashing you for enjoying them. I can't count how many coming-of-age novels I've read in my life. Hell, the Wheel of Time is, as complex and long-winded-as-it-is, about three boys and a gaggle of young women coming of age and saving the world. I'm re-reading them later this year.
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« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2012, 02:37:01 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 27, 2012, 11:11:29 PM

Quote from: Crusis on February 27, 2012, 10:29:56 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 24, 2012, 07:35:55 PM

By stating in a general sweep that you don't like Young Adult books, you're showing your ignorance.

Oh dear, I am?

I have tried to read YA books and I don't care for them. So how in the world is that showing my ignorance? I am not the target audience, not by a long shot. I do love that my kids grew up reading them. They also enjoyed Abarat (I did not) and even China Mieville's Un Lun Dun, which I only got about 50 pages into.

If you love YA books then more power to you. I don't love them. So less power to me.



Yes, you are.

Which part? I'm on the edge of my seat. In fact I just dropped my pita.
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« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2012, 04:08:58 AM »

What you got against flatbreads?
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« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2012, 04:24:56 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 04:08:58 AM

What you got against flatbreads?

I go against the grain.
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« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2012, 05:33:40 AM »

Quote from: Purge on February 28, 2012, 04:24:56 AM

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 04:08:58 AM

What you got against flatbreads?

I go against the grain.

ah, Purge and his rye humor.  it's his bread and butter.  I'd better stop before I derail his roll.
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« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2012, 02:34:11 PM »

Quote from: Crusis on February 28, 2012, 02:37:01 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 27, 2012, 11:11:29 PM

Quote from: Crusis on February 27, 2012, 10:29:56 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 24, 2012, 07:35:55 PM

By stating in a general sweep that you don't like Young Adult books, you're showing your ignorance.

Oh dear, I am?

I have tried to read YA books and I don't care for them. So how in the world is that showing my ignorance? I am not the target audience, not by a long shot. I do love that my kids grew up reading them. They also enjoyed Abarat (I did not) and even China Mieville's Un Lun Dun, which I only got about 50 pages into.

If you love YA books then more power to you. I don't love them. So less power to me.



Yes, you are.

Which part? I'm on the edge of my seat. In fact I just dropped my pita.

Sorry, that was snarkier than I intended.  However, your ignorance is in having read a few YA books (no indication on how recently that may have been) and dismissing the whole genre which has been steadily changing in recent years.

To wit (since Purge is all about the links):

NYT
Quote
In fact one of the happiest and most hopeful developments in publishing over the last decade is the expansion of the sub-market known as “young adult,” or YA, to which “The Fault in Our Stars” belongs. Bookstores are assigning YA titles more space. Serious novelists who would once have blanched at the thought of writing YA novels are giving them a try. And publishing houses are pumping out more and more of them, creating special YA imprints and lines where they didn’t exist.

“Everybody and their brothers wants to enter the market,” said Beverly Horowitz, a veteran editor at Delacorte Press who was on the YA train long before it roared so mightily down the tracks. And while part of the explanation for its velocity is the way the “Harry Potter,” “Twilight,” and “Hunger Games” series have blurred the boundary between children’s and adults’ fare, attracting readers of all ages, another part is simply the undiminished power of the written word

Also, NYT
Quote
The themes are serious and the discussions intense, but the books are fast-paced and fun. “A lot of contemporary adult literature is characterized by a real distrust of plot,” Grossman said. “I think young adult fiction is one of the few areas of literature right now where storytelling really thrives.”

Great Schools
Quote
In the 1960s and '70s, we see the beginnings of young adult literature. In response to baby boomers entering their teen years, and spurred on by the burgeoning music and fashion industries, publishers brought out novels specifically for adolescents, such as The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton and Forever by Judy Blume.
 
If the '60s and '70s were the classical age of YA, we're now in the midst of its renaissance, due again to the sheer number of teens out there — the children of baby boomers and a huge second wave of YA consumers. The Association of American Publishers reports that from 2002 to 2005, hard-cover books for young people accounted for the largest increase of books marketed to a general audience.
 
In fact, there has been such a remarkable increase in high quality YA fiction that many new awards have been created to acknowledge the authors. The two most prestigious awards are the National Book Award for Young People's Literature, created in 1996, and the Michael L. Printz Award, given by the Young Adult Library Services Association (YALSA) and first awarded in 2000.
and
Quote
YA typically features a tween or teen protagonist and deals with topics favored by this age range: fantasy, adventure and coming-of-age stories. Recently, more graphic sex and violence has crept into books aimed at the younger YA age ranges, causing concern and consternation among parents.

LA Times
Quote
But increasingly, adults are reading YA books with no ulterior motives. Attracted by well-written, fast-paced and engaging stories that span the gamut of genres and subjects, such readers have mainstreamed a niche long derided as just for kids.
and
Quote
"There's some amazing, vibrant, fantastic literature in the YA venue," said Cecil Castellucci, a young adult author who recently started the Pardon My Youth book club at Skylight Books in Los Feliz to "help people understand that YA literature is not just for young adults."
and
Quote
"...we're living in the golden age of young adult literature.  As a YA author, I get tired of being asked, 'When are you going to write a real book?' " she said. "As if a YA book is not a real book."

Boston.com
Quote

Staffers noticed that, curiously, most of the inquiring customers were not young adults at all. Many were middle aged. And that led to a revelation: Young adult books are no longer for that audience alone - and, as a result, sales are often outpacing grown-up bestsellers, sometimes by millions.

The Booksmith now keeps its best-selling young adult titles in the front of the store, displayed prominently on tables among the adult bestsellers and new releases.
and
Quote
Candlewick Press, a Somerville-based publisher that built its reputation with picture books, has changed its course to reflect the growing demand for the young adult market. The company has acquired so many new young adult titles that it recently came up with a new logo for its older readers. Instead of a cute bear carrying a candle, which is emblazoned on Candlewick’s books for children, the YA books get a sophisticated single candle.
and
Quote
In the early days of his career when he told people he wrote YA, they often assumed he was writing about the prom. Now, Anderson jokes, “They assume that you’re the one actually making money.’’


WSJ
Quote
How dark is contemporary fiction for teens? Darker than when you were a child, my dear: So dark that kidnapping and pederasty and incest and brutal beatings are now just part of the run of things in novels directed, broadly speaking, at children from the ages of 12 to 18.

Pathologies that went undescribed in print 40 years ago, that were still only sparingly outlined a generation ago, are now spelled out in stomach-clenching detail. Profanity that would get a song or movie branded with a parental warning is, in young-adult novels, so commonplace that most reviewers do not even remark upon it.

And from Purge's Wikipedia article:
Quote
Writing styles of YA stories range widely, from the richness of literary style to the clarity and speed of the unobtrusive and free verse.
and
Quote
the field matured, blossomed, and came into its own with the better written, more serious, and more varied young adult books published during the last two decades
and
Quote
YA novels currently in print include content about peer pressure, illness, divorce, drugs, gangs, crime, violence, sexuality, incest, oral sex, and female/male rape.

So, yes, the scene from Necroscope you described could apply.
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« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2012, 02:36:00 PM »

Would babysitter porn be considered YA material?
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« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2012, 04:04:15 PM »

I'm sorry to harp on this.  It always bothers me when someone closes their mind to something, especially when their reasons for doing so aren't correct.

I have friends who, to this day, won't watch cartoons animated films, as they're dismissed as being "for children" - the same goes for comic books graphic novels.  Don't be surprised when YA gets retitled as something else less limiting.

It's all the same in the sense that each of those realms started to make money and more serious authors started dipping their toes in the water as more and more suits started pushing for more to be released in that genre.  All the while, boundaries kept getting pushed about what that category truly was, and the definition became fuzzy.

Many people couldn't or can't see past the original definition despite the rest of the world moving on.
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« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2012, 05:59:57 PM »

First and foremost:

Necroscope was about an adult, who, in the history of 5 of the first series of books spends 2 chapters backfilling how he discovered his powers to communicate with the dead. It is about ESP and espionage during the cold war.

The second series (far less interesting) deals with another world (the origin of the Vampire symbiote) and his twin sons.


Onto the crux of the misunderstanding:

Let me draw a picture for you:

----------------------
       |              |      
       |              |      

That is a bridge.

If the story arc (or the top of the bridge) is a coming-of-age tale, or aimed at young readers, it is overtly a YAF book. It's message is of a youngish person learning where they fit in. A fair number of John Hughes' movies were squarely aimed at this. It could be chick-like, it could be manly. It's about kid-growing-to-adult, with it in full focus ALL the time.

If the pillars that support a different plotline, like in Harry Potter, Dragonbone chair, Wheel of Time, etc, then they could be classified as Young Adult, even though they ALL are not (and were not billed as such at the time of publishing). Sex, violence, magic, and/or hijinks may ensue, and a f***load of fantasy/fiction fits in here. Unlikely pubescent hero gets all magic'd up and kicks ass, saves world. Hell, pretty much every animated Disney flick lives down the goddamn block. The protagonist is youthful, and is going through transitional times while dealing with bigger issues (plotline).

Once again, they generally are not billed as YAF, which means you should respect that. The pub and author decide the genre, and edit the work to fit to what market they're going after.

The very definition of the YA (and this has NOT been blurred) is that

A) The protagonist is roughly 12-20
B) It deals with coming of age issues
-OR-
C) it is aimed at pubescent readers

The only thing that changes is the focus of HOW those stories are told, and how they are now being classified when these are foundations to the story. Eg: The Belgariad is a coming-of-age story, where the sequel series is not, nor are the two from the same Author (The Elenium, IIRC, with Sparhawk as the protagonist).

A story that mentions a child, or a teenager with a chapter or two is like having a SINGLE BRICK IN THE BRIDGE with a YA-like theme tainting the whole bridge. Is every movie, book or show with an ounce of blood a murder-mystery or gorefest? I mean, Harry and friends always had someone die, and there were conspiracies abound. Suspense? Murder? Fantasy Fiction?

Batman as an adult dealing with childhood issues is not YA. How the story is told may be aimed at youth, but just because some are doesn't mean that you can't find examples that aren't. Batman Begins, and Dark Knight are PG-13 flicks, and they were dark, and very powerful.

The article *you* cited spoke to the fact that the topics we associated when we were younger have a much deeper range, and while being more "edgy", and his gripe was that he ASSUMED it was because the general public assumed YA was lower quality storytelling. In my last post, I thought I clarified it. It seems instead you read the first 10 words and went on a quote hunt. The reason I quoted everything from the Wiki article was so you'd see I acknowledge the point you're trying to make, and then to make mine.

I argue that while I have enjoyed being wet in the past, and expect to get wet in the future, I don't want to get wet right now. You argue that rain is refreshing, and that I'm closed-minded.

I don't read sports fiction, because I don't care about sports fiction. ATM I have no interest in the transitory state of our youth, or literature which deals with young characters trying to figure out their place in adulthood, and so I don't read YA fiction. I even suggested two posts ago to find me a book where a YA book doesn't have those coming-of-age tones, and got no response.

So while you have clearly jumped to the defense of the YAF, I'm not attacking it, or putting it down. I was IN SUPPORT OF A HERALDED YAF author writing books that fall more in line with what my current interests are.  

So just answer this question: do you understand the point I'm driving at? A simple Yes/No would suffice.
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« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2012, 06:07:32 PM »

There's belaboring the point and then there's driving over to the point's house, kicking in the door, shooting it's dog, shaving his kid's heads bald, then taking a crap in his oven and putting it on bake at 350 degrees before leaving out the bathroom window...
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« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2012, 06:15:49 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:07:32 PM

There's belaboring the point and then there's driving over to the point's house, kicking in the door, shooting it's dog, shaving his kid's heads bald, then taking a crap in his oven and putting it on bake at 350 degrees before leaving out the bathroom window...

Whenever I come in here I find myself thinking, "I'd rather be reading YAF."   icon_wink
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« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2012, 06:21:31 PM »

Well, if Harry Potters tale was told from the perspective of Voldemort, it would not be YA. Plain and simple.

Necroscope was about adults, so Bullwinkle is way off base.
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« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2012, 06:23:09 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:07:32 PM

There's belaboring the point and then there's driving over to the point's house, kicking in the door, shooting it's dog, shaving his kid's heads bald, then taking a crap in his oven and putting it on bake at 350 degrees before leaving out the bathroom window...

Bathroom window seems excessive, doesn't it? Tongue
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« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2012, 06:23:29 PM »

As a side note, I read and loved almost the entire Necroscope series as a teenager (well...19 and later).  It got a little silly when they set the novels on the vampire world and I think I dropped out about that point.  Lumley also wrote a fantastic (and unrelated) short story about Vampires that linked them with Christianity in a really unique way.  I wish I could remember the name of the story or even the compilation I found it in originally.   icon_frown
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 06:25:22 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2012, 06:24:26 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 28, 2012, 06:23:09 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:07:32 PM

There's belaboring the point and then there's driving over to the point's house, kicking in the door, shooting it's dog, shaving his kid's heads bald, then taking a crap in his oven and putting it on bake at 350 degrees before leaving out the bathroom window...

Bathroom window seems excessive, doesn't it? Tongue

That is your point of contention?  I have more issue with the oven setting.  Everyone knows "low and slow" is the way to go for proper tenderness.  Come on people, culinary science is not something to be taken lightly.  Fabulous
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« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2012, 06:27:11 PM »

The proper oven settings for a "Mud Pie" is a hotly contested one, I will admit.  But I adhere to my belief that a mid-range setting is the way to go due to the traditionally short discovery time of the victim.

...trust me, you don't wanna half baked attempt.
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« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2012, 06:28:56 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:23:29 PM

As a side note, I read and loved almost the entire Necroscope series as a teenager (well...19 and later).  It got a little silly when they set the novels on the vampire world and I think I dropped out about that point.  Lumley also wrote a fantastic (and unrelated) short story about Vampires that linked them with Christianity in a really unique way.  I wish I could remember the name of the story or even the compilation I found it in originally.   icon_frown

http://www.brianlumley.com/books/collections/coven.html Coven of Vampires has some short stories... perhaps that's what you're thinking about?

Also, I own the second series, and got through the 2nd of 3 books. It was less compelling, even the end of the first series was not up to the level of the first four books.
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« Reply #63 on: February 28, 2012, 06:29:37 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:27:11 PM

The proper oven settings for a "Mud Pie" is a hotly contested one, I will admit.  But I adhere to my belief that a mid-range setting is the way to go due to the traditionally short discovery time of the victim.

...trust me, you don't wanna half baked attempt.

See, I indulge in two bowlfuls of spicy chili first, so that I can produce a proper Lava Cake.
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« Reply #64 on: February 28, 2012, 06:57:15 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on February 28, 2012, 06:15:49 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:07:32 PM

There's belaboring the point and then there's driving over to the point's house, kicking in the door, shooting it's dog, shaving his kid's heads bald, then taking a crap in his oven and putting it on bake at 350 degrees before leaving out the bathroom window...

Whenever I come in here I find myself thinking, "I'd rather be reading YAF."   icon_wink

That's funny. Every time I come in here I think "I should really be working on my new book."  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2012, 06:57:53 PM »

I'm afraid to ask...but...is it a cookbook?
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« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2012, 06:59:58 PM »

Between this one and the thread about who "likes" PS3 or XBOX, I think everyone needs a nice nap.
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« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2012, 07:01:33 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on February 28, 2012, 04:04:15 PM

I'm sorry to harp on this.  It always bothers me when someone closes their mind to something, especially when their reasons for doing so aren't correct.


No kidding. There is a girl at work that won't read one of my books. She's all "I don't like scary books ..." and I'm all "But but I write character driven horror with strong female leads!" She just won't come around to my point of view.
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« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2012, 07:03:37 PM »

Quote from: Crusis on February 28, 2012, 06:57:15 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on February 28, 2012, 06:15:49 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:07:32 PM

There's belaboring the point and then there's driving over to the point's house, kicking in the door, shooting it's dog, shaving his kid's heads bald, then taking a crap in his oven and putting it on bake at 350 degrees before leaving out the bathroom window...

Whenever I come in here I find myself thinking, "I'd rather be reading YAF."   icon_wink

That's funny. Every time I come in here I think "I should really be working on my new book."  icon_biggrin

Heh, if you get the JK Rowling fame don't forget us GT folks in your acknowledgements smile




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« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2012, 07:10:23 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 28, 2012, 06:57:53 PM

I'm afraid to ask...but...is it a cookbook?

I wish! I think that would be fun because I could test all the recipes - but along those lines I am working on two projects. One is a sequel to my first book Among the Living. The second is a novella about a transgender cannibalistic (see ... cookbook!) serial killer in a frat house. It's called Sausagefest. I'm writing this with my co-author on The Apocalypse and Satan's Glory Hole, Sir Jonathan Moon.

To tie this back to the topic. I think I said that I wasn't exactly the target audience for YA books.
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« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2012, 07:36:36 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 28, 2012, 06:21:31 PM

Well, if Harry Potters tale was told from the perspective of Voldemort, it would not be YA. Plain and simple.

Necroscope was about adults, so Bullwinkle is way off base.

I already mentioned that Harry's age is what kept it from being YA.

The pillars of your bridge are no longer correct is my point.  They are rebuilding the bridge.

You're only close on A.  However the age range doesn't seem to stop at 20 any more.

The stories are no longer all about coming of age, and they are increasingly not aimed at pubescent readers.

Also, I'm arguing that it's not rain any more.  (have fun with that one)

Sorry, I didn't limit my response to your diatribe with yes or no.
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« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2012, 08:26:08 PM »

This seems very reminiscent of the efforts to get the general public to understand that video games are no longer just for kids.
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« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2012, 08:56:49 PM »

I like YA because they use smaller werdz.
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« Reply #73 on: February 28, 2012, 09:02:23 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 28, 2012, 06:59:58 PM

I think everyone needs a nice nap.

I could go for a nap, but I;m afraid Purge would sneak in and leave an upper decker.
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« Reply #74 on: February 29, 2012, 04:39:25 AM »

I agree that the Young Adult category has changed a lot in recent years. I'd avoided them for the longest time before Harry Potter, but since then I've delved into Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy. In general, I'm actually pretty shocked at how good some of the writing can be. In the Dark Materials trilogy, I was quite surprised at how much he was able to get away with, as it can be rather dark at times. So, while I'm sure some of the writing in the YA category can be fluffy, I think it can actually be pretty decent.
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« Reply #75 on: February 29, 2012, 04:44:42 AM »

The problem with trying to have a reasonable discourse is, you need someone who is being reasonable. Clearly the words "Young" and "Adult" mean "*" cuz hey, EVERYTHING has a teenager in it, or is aimed at teens!

I can't wait for Bullwinkle to pull out the next one where childrens books are aimed at 40-something bus drivers that leer at elderly women.
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« Reply #76 on: February 29, 2012, 04:53:31 AM »

Quote from: Purge on February 29, 2012, 04:44:42 AM

I can't wait for Bullwinkle to pull out the next one where childrens books are aimed at 40-something bus drivers that leer at elderly women.
CeeKay will be in the kids section in no time.

wasn't that already done with Driving Miss Daisy?
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« Reply #77 on: February 29, 2012, 05:01:42 AM »

I pulled it from you, CeeKay. I think of you as more the trenchcoat-heavy-breather-kind. Tongue

I'd swing that over to hep, but I made him cry once today already. slywink
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« Reply #78 on: February 29, 2012, 01:27:17 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 29, 2012, 04:44:42 AM

The problem with trying to have a reasonable discourse is, you need someone who is being reasonable. Clearly the words "Young" and "Adult" mean "*" cuz hey, EVERYTHING has a teenager in it, or is aimed at teens!

You are being willfully ignorant.  I can't understand why.  The YA market has changed since you last evaluated it, but you're digging in your heels to make this your Internet Argument Alamo.
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« Reply #79 on: February 29, 2012, 01:29:31 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 29, 2012, 04:44:42 AM

The problem with trying to have a reasonable discourse is, you need someone who is being reasonable. Clearly the words "Young" and "Adult" mean "*" cuz hey, EVERYTHING has a teenager in it, or is aimed at teens!

I can't wait for Bullwinkle to pull out the next one where childrens books are aimed at 40-something bus drivers that leer at elderly women.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, but it seems to be that the label "Young Adult" clearly has to be aimed at "Young Adults" because that's what it's called.

I even mentioned earlier that there may well need to be a change to the category name since it doesn't apply any more.

Sorry for being unreasonable, I guess.
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