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Author Topic: "The Matrix" was a rip-off? WTF?  (Read 3259 times)
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unbreakable
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« on: December 06, 2004, 06:34:09 PM »

I saw this linked to on Penny Arcade.

WTF?  So they blatently ripped off her work?  No wonder the second and third movies sucked so much- they didnt have someone else's script to use.

One question I have regarding the article- where does "The Terminator" fit into this?  Were the Wachowski's somehow involved with it?
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2004, 06:55:48 PM »

I'm assuming that there was probably another script invovled that included the Terminator license in the suit.  Either that or part of that same script involved ideas that were taken for that movie.  The Wachowskies had nothing to do with any Terminator movie.
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2004, 06:56:48 PM »

Wow. I'd definitely like to hear more about this.

I eagerly await comments from neovsmatrix, assuming he's around somewhere.
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2004, 07:35:20 PM »

I hope that if it's true, the woman gets her damages, as well as an acknowledgement in future DVD editions.  I've dabbled in some writing, I'd hate to see something I submitted for publication blatantly ripped off.  The writing credit would honestly bother me as much as the money.
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JSHAW
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2004, 07:38:00 PM »

WOW!  :shock:

That link and it's story is the first time I've heard anything about this.

As the story said, there's going to be more on this in the future, probably on a network that's NOT owned by Time Warner/AOL.

What's pretty ballsy is when you watch all the extra's that have been included on The Matrix DVD's the way the origin is spun is that Wachowski Bros. say they were inspired by Japanese Anime and other comic book sources.  :roll:

Guess they were REALLY inspired by the person who actually wrote the original source material. Enough that they'd feel the need to steal her idea and make it their own.  :x
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unbreakable
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2004, 07:50:10 PM »

What I found amazing is evidence in her case is being provided by an investigation from the FBI, and that many witnesses actually claimed her materials were being referenced during the making of the movies.
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2004, 07:53:47 PM »

I hope the wachowski brothers get it up the butt good and proper for putting me through Matrix 2 & 3.  My wife and I were both wondering if the second and third movies were even written by the same guys, and now I guess we know.

I still can't believe the idiotic 'ultimate' matrix set got made.  Commentary by philosophers?  gimme a fucking break.....
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2004, 07:53:59 PM »

Wow.  This certainly does shed light on why the first one was so disproportianately better than the sequels.  They may still be decent directors, but the problems with the writing is now understandable.
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2004, 07:59:28 PM »

Maybe now we see why they didnt want to come out and give official commentary on what it meant, where they got the ideas from, etc.  They werent trying to be mystical or eliminate boundaries on the 'world', they were just making sure to not say stuff that would self-incriminate.
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jonsauce
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2004, 08:18:27 PM »

This is sad news really.  I hope the person who came up with it all gets what they deserve (in a good way!).  I liked The Matrix and then #2 alot.  #3 I actually was dissapointed by.
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2004, 08:23:15 PM »

After watching the anime Serial Experiments Lain, which came out before the Matrix, I suspected something fishy was going on.  There were too many parallels.  It sounds like their theft began quite a bit earlier.

Didn't they write the screenplay for Bound?  I thought the writing was good in that one.
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Pyperkub
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2004, 08:52:49 PM »

FYI I did a little hunting and the Salt Lake paper that printed that story also has a retraction where they say:

"In reference to the recent article entitled "Mother of the Matrix Victorious," some information has been deemed misleading. Ms. Sophia Stewart has not yet won her case against Joel Silver, Time Warner and the Wachowski Bros. The decision on October 4th enabled Ms. Stewart to proceed with her case, as all attempts to have it dismissed were unsuccessful. Ms. Stewart's case will proceed through the Central District Court of California. "

http://www.slccglobelink.com/news/2004/11/16/News/Corrections-805777.shtml
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2004, 10:43:24 PM »

this is a victory as far as that the Wachowski's attempts to get the case dismissed has been finally defeated, and it can now proceed to a trial.

Why some articles state the awarding of a judgement doesnt make sense.  It's amazing how there isnt even the slightest bit of investigation being done for stories- everyone just repeats stuff.
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2004, 10:46:30 PM »



The Germans will sue soon.
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2004, 10:49:21 PM »

I know James Cameron payed some kind of settlement for 'borrowing' Harlan Ellison's story for Terminator. I think the story he swiped was Soldier, I remember this because I'm an Ellison fan and was rooting for him at the time.  Considering that, and the fact that it'd be hard to spawn Terminator and The Matrix from the same story, I don't see her winning.  

Besides, I thought  everyone knows the W bros stole the idea for Matrix from Ghost In The Shell.  Tongue
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2004, 11:24:36 PM »

Quote from: "gameoverman"

Besides, I thought  everyone knows the W bros stole the idea for Matrix from Ghost In The Shell.  Tongue


which came out more than 10 years after her script had been submitted.
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2004, 12:31:45 AM »

Actually gameoverman, I was going to mention that Terminator cites Harlan Ellison right in the credits.  I would be very interested how she claimed she wrote it.
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gameoverman
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2004, 12:39:55 AM »

Quote from: "EngineNo9"
Quote from: "gameoverman"

Besides, I thought  everyone knows the W bros stole the idea for Matrix from Ghost In The Shell.  Tongue


which came out more than 10 years after her script had been submitted.


But from what I saw in the article, she doesn't claim GitS is also ripping off her work, something fishy there.  Does she have evidence that the GitS people saw her work before they did their material?

Quote from: "Big Jake"
Actually gameoverman, I was going to mention that Terminator cites Harlan Ellison right in the credits.  I would be very interested how she claimed she wrote it.


If I remember right, that credit was also part of the settlement. I think I remember something like Cameron telling Starlog magazine that Soldier was a direct influence or something, that sank his ship later when Ellison sued.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2004, 04:44:17 AM »

I wonder if shes single?
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2004, 04:56:49 AM »

bah. Reloaded is the best one of the franchise...
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Sparhawk
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« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2004, 04:59:57 AM »

Thats because GiTS could not have been ripped off from her work. She submitted her writings to only one other entity, The Washout Brothers.
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th'FOOL
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2004, 05:12:28 AM »

Quote from: "ATB"
bah. Reloaded is the best one of the franchise...


Oh yeah, that rave scene was TOPS. :roll:  :roll:  :roll:
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Mike Dunn
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« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2004, 05:57:07 AM »

All ten minutes of it...
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jessie
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« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2004, 08:59:25 AM »

matrix online will be canned.  watch.
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2004, 12:07:01 PM »

Quote from: "jessie"
matrix online will be canned.  watch.


I have heard nothing but bad reports about this one from all beta testers and such.  I don't know if it will be canned, but doubt it will be doing much of anything either way.
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« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2004, 12:39:13 PM »

After Contract Jack I'm worried about Monolith.  I fear they've lost their mojo.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2004, 02:06:22 PM »

Quote from: "warning"
After Contract Jack I'm worried about Monolith.  I fear they've lost their mojo.


Considering CJ hit just three or four months after the stellar Tron 2.0 *and* from looking at the preview stuff for FEAR I won't hold CJ against them.  As for Matrix Online- MMORPG development is considerably different than FPS development so the relative quality of MO really won't have a bearing on their future FPS designs.

As to this lawsuit- as noted the initial article in this thread is incorrect and forgive me if I don't hold the Salt Lake Community College Chronicle (or whatever its called) as a paragon of journalism.  Maybe the case has merit, maybe it doesn't.
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JSHAW
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« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2004, 04:59:18 AM »

IF the case makes it to court perhaps she'll either win her case, lose her case or Warner Bros. settles out of court and makes her a deal for millions plus future residuals on anything Matrix related.  :?:
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unbreakable
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« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2004, 01:27:42 AM »

Quote from: "JSHAW"
IF the case makes it to court perhaps she'll either win her case, lose her case or Warner Bros. settles out of court and makes her a deal for millions plus future residuals on anything Matrix related.  :?:

The case IS going to court, that is what the press release was about (meaning WB, the Wachowski's, etc, have run out of any means of getting the case dismissed).

*My* opinion of what the verdict will be- the sides will settle out of court for an undisclose sum of money, an agreement will be reached in which neither side discusses fault, and she will be put under contract to write/direct/produce X number of films for Warner Bros.

Similiar, in a way, to the "Spike TV" settlement, but without being based upon complete and utter bullshit.
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