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Author Topic: WoW: The Death Penalty  (Read 4820 times)
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slackerjoe
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« on: January 02, 2005, 04:44:23 AM »

It seems an online game finally figured out what a fair death penalty. I don't lose experience, but I have to travel some distance to retrieve my corpse and pay a small monetary penalty to repair my equipment. It's enough of a penalty that I do whatever I can not to die, but I know that if I do die, it's not the end of the world.

Good job, Blizzard!
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Jafisob
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2005, 04:45:53 PM »

Quote from: "slackerjoe"
It seems an online game finally figured out what a fair death penalty. I don't lose experience, but I have to travel some distance to retrieve my corpse and pay a small monetary penalty to repair my equipment. It's enough of a penalty that I do whatever I can not to die, but I know that if I do die, it's not the end of the world.

Good job, Blizzard!


I agree whole heartedly.  One of the reasons I switched from EQ2 was dieing twice in one night on two separate characters and not being able to retrieve my corpse shard(in addition to the exp penalty).
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Roguetad
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2005, 09:18:41 PM »

I agree.  I can't stand the idea of going into exp debt, or losing exp, or even losing a level!  In WoW the penalty is just bad enough that I do whatever it takes to stay alive or keep others alive (I think gamer's pride factors into that as well).  Sometimes the ghost runs in WoW can be a real pita if the graveyard is far away, but I'd take that over any form of exp dept/loss anyday.  And they give the option to just say screw it and rez at the graveyard, which I've done a few times.  I think Blizz had done a good job of keeping their sights on making WoW fun.  And if the death penalty is not harsh enough for some people, there's always EQ2 and FFXI to enjoy.
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jpinard
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2005, 12:34:53 AM »

Agreed.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2005, 01:10:56 AM »

I agree completely as well.
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Falator
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2005, 01:18:56 AM »

well, being an enchanter, i am not too rich and the 1g I have to pay after a few deaths hurts a lot. In instances though, death is the most painful as if you are doing a long instance like that one in the scarlet monastery where Herod is and you die, chances are if your group is far in the instance and nobody can res you, you are going to have to fight your way back through all of the respawned patrols. Also in instances there is a LARGE timer that you have to wait out before you can be ressed if you have died more than once there.
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Chesspieceface
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2005, 01:43:02 AM »

Quote from: "Falator"
well, being an enchanter, i am not too rich and the 1g I have to pay after a few deaths hurts a lot.


I guess I must be missing something.  What 1g ?
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Calvin
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2005, 02:04:55 AM »

ITs the best MMO death penalty ever, bar none.
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Lordnine
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2005, 02:22:25 AM »

Quote from: "Demosthenes"
Quote from: "Falator"
well, being an enchanter, i am not too rich and the 1g I have to pay after a few deaths hurts a lot.


I guess I must be missing something.  What 1g ?


I’m guessing he’s a fairly high level.  High-end equipment repairs can be quite costly.
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Alefroth
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2005, 02:54:01 AM »

You only take a durability hit if you choose to res. There is no penalty if you run back to your corpse. Another drawback to death is you lose any buff you may have had from a spell, or a nice potion.

Ale
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Trey
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2005, 07:42:02 AM »

Quote from: "Alefroth"
You only take a durability hit if you choose to res. There is no penalty if you run back to your corpse. Another drawback to death is you lose any buff you may have had from a spell, or a nice potion.

Ale

Not true. You take a 10% durability hit if you are resed or corpse run. If you spirit res you take a 25% hit.
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2005, 08:16:38 AM »

If you're high enough level to be paying 1G for that 10% damage hit, then you sure as hell should be able to get that money pretty quickly from mobs, selling drops or selling enchantments to other players.
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Chesspieceface
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2005, 09:17:15 AM »

Quote from: "EngineNo9"
If you're high enough level to be paying 1G for that 10% damage hit, then you sure as hell should be able to get that money pretty quickly from mobs, selling drops or selling enchantments to other players.


No Kidding.  I spirit rezzed today my level 19, and I believe repairs were under 6s.  :shock:
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Lee
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2005, 10:05:42 AM »

I disagree wholeheartedly. Dying should have very bad consequences such as experience loss and chance of losing your body. It stops people from doing stupid things like wandering into places they shouldn't be. If the cost is high it makes the game that much more exciting. I will never forget my first journey across Norrath at level 10 in EQ1. It was scary as hell and it gave me a real sense of accomplishment when I was done.

The people bitching about the death penalties in EQ1 were usually the players who couldn't level to save their lives.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2005, 11:52:57 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dying should have very bad consequences such as experience loss and chance of losing your body. It stops people from doing stupid things like wandering into places they shouldn't be. If the cost is high it makes the game that much more exciting. I will never forget my first journey across Norrath at level 10 in EQ1. It was scary as hell and it gave me a real sense of accomplishment when I was done.

The people bitching about the death penalties in EQ1 were usually the players who couldn't level to save their lives.


The first time  took the boat to Auberdein from Darnassus, and walked to ironforge, you better believe  it gave me a real sense of accomplishment as well.
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ericb
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2005, 01:29:24 PM »

I have to agree with the current system.  It's enough of a pain to feel it (unless you happen to die beside the graveyard) and the 10% can hurt at higher levels but that is enough.  I can't count the thousands of posts in EQ2 bitching about the death penalty while there are almost none on the WoW forums.  The way respawns happen in WoW make it a little too easy to die sometimes and more of a penalty would hurt especially at lower levels.
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RPGHero
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2005, 04:52:37 PM »

Quote from: "Eco-Logic"
Quote from: "Lee"
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dying should have very bad consequences such as experience loss and chance of losing your body. It stops people from doing stupid things like wandering into places they shouldn't be. If the cost is high it makes the game that much more exciting. I will never forget my first journey across Norrath at level 10 in EQ1. It was scary as hell and it gave me a real sense of accomplishment when I was done.

The people bitching about the death penalties in EQ1 were usually the players who couldn't level to save their lives.


The first time  took the boat to Auberdein from Darnassus, and walked to ironforge, you better believe  it gave me a real sense of accomplishment as well.


Actually I wouldn't have a problem with death costing more when the game gets cleaned up a little more. After all, you would have been pretty ticked if during that trip the boat disappeared in the middle of the ocean and you died and couldn't retrieve your corpse.  I've had boat disappear on me probably 5 times so far...and I don't use them often.
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Interloper
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2005, 05:09:04 PM »

I too like the current death system.  Not too harsh, not too easy.  Just right.
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Jafisob
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2005, 05:10:28 PM »

Quote from: "Lee"
...
The people bitching about the death penalties in EQ1 were usually the players who couldn't level to save their lives.


After having played EQ1 for a total of 3 years off and on I have to disagree with this.  Most people, even the highest level ones, in the game disliked corpse runs and thought they were an unnecessary burden.  The only people not bitching about death penalties in EQ1 were a few rare catasses who lived in their mom's basement and had no job so they did not mind spending an hour or more finding and retrieving their body.  Those of us who like to *gasp* have fun in a _game_ did not like spending our limited spare time doing something frustrating.
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RedJak
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2005, 07:00:33 PM »

My previous experience before WoW was a MUD long ago with people who went totally over the top with death penalties through huge exp, gold and durabilities losses.  It was basically used as an artificial way to extend the life of the game and at the worst point I quit playing it.

So I like the way WoW does it but I will be a wuss one step further and say I wouldn't mind an extra graveyard in the really big zones especially near instances.   For me the fun is the continous playing aspect.   Running back to the corpse is just padding.   I get plenty of that when I get quests that make me travel 3-4 flyer routes and by ship.  

I do think that Undead guys should be ressed without penalties by the Spirit Healer.  It would be like someone stumbled across a body and pitched it in the graveyard without checking for undeath.
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ChrisGwinn
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2005, 10:23:15 PM »

Tell you what - if you want a bigger death penalty, play with a bottle of jagermeister next to the keyboard.  Take a shot every time you die.  Consider it a fan mod.
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Chesspieceface
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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2005, 11:51:38 PM »

Quote from: "ChrisGwinn"
Tell you what - if you want a bigger death penalty, play with a bottle of jagermeister next to the keyboard.  Take a shot every time you die.  Consider it a fan mod.


Hilarious
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2005, 12:12:08 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dying should have very bad consequences such as experience loss and chance of losing your body. It stops people from doing stupid things like wandering into places they shouldn't be. If the cost is high it makes the game that much more exciting. I will never forget my first journey across Norrath at level 10 in EQ1. It was scary as hell and it gave me a real sense of accomplishment when I was done.

The people bitching about the death penalties in EQ1 were usually the players who couldn't level to save their lives.

You're entitled to your own opinions, (wrong as they might be), but please don't share them with Blizzard.  Ever.
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onnel
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2005, 09:13:54 AM »

I don't live in my mom's basement, but I'll weigh in on the side of lliking corpse runs (not the actual undertaking, but the reality of them).  They were a bitch sometimes, but dying should be a bitch.

I find woW's penalties pretty much non-existent and not really to my liking.  There is too little risk and therefore the feeling of reward is diminished.

All IMO, of course.

Onnel
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Toe
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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2005, 12:42:46 PM »

I guess I approach it from more of a roleplaying standpoint. My character does not want to die. So I roleplay him to that effect. When I die, it makes sad, angry, frustrated, or even at times proud (as in fighting bravely against hopeless odds).

Thats all the penalty I need. I do not need some arbitrary "punishment" forced on me through game mechanics.
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Jafisob
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2005, 01:10:31 PM »

Quote from: "Toe"
I guess I approach it from more of a roleplaying standpoint. My character does not want to die. So I roleplay him to that effect. When I die, it makes sad, angry, frustrated, or even at times proud (as in fighting bravely against hopeless odds).

Thats all the penalty I need. I do not need some arbitrary "punishment" forced on me through game mechanics.


I agree.  I try not to die because I don't want my character to die.  A small WoW like penalty versus the old EQ mega pimp is still preferable to me.  Sometimes I would quit early in EQ because I would not have time for a corpse run if I died.  I would not play the day before a long vacation because if I died someplace tough there might be an issue.

I remember in DAOC once you were 50 and had some extra cash there were people who would suicide as a free teleport home.  I could not get myself to do it.  It felt wrong.  I am glad there is some disincentive in WoW so you don't see suicide teleports.
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ChrisGwinn
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2005, 02:48:00 PM »

I play games for fun, and I have other things in my life.  If my wife walks in the room and asks a question, I'm going to talk to her.  That may cause me to die.  A game that seriously punishes me for talking to my wife is not a game I'm going to play.  In a single-player game I'd just say "hang on" and save, but I can't do that in a multi-player game.
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Shkspr
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2005, 05:04:54 PM »

Bah.  There should be only one death penalty in MMORPGs - "Select New Character".  :wink:

In a related story, I just made it to level 9!  biggrin
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Butterknife
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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2005, 06:16:51 PM »

Quote
but dying should be a bitch


I'd say about 75% of the time I die, I don't deserve it.  Lag deaths alone count for about half of my total deaths.  Since I don't deserve it, it isn't fair to suffer a huge penalty when I die.  WoW does an admirable job of straddling the line -- just enough of a penalty to encourage you to stay alive, not enough of one to make you miserable.
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jessie
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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2005, 07:00:40 PM »

i can't remember how many times groups would split up in EQ because one person died.  

"That sucks.  Alright, I'm tired & going to bed."

"Yah, I have to feed my dog. I'm going too."

"Crap, my mom's calling.  I need to go."

"Woops! I forgot to bathe for the last 720 hours.  I'm gonna start my bath water."

This rarely happens to me in WoW unless I'm in an instance that respawns.  Then you get tired of fighting to the same spot over and over.
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2005, 07:53:53 PM »

Quote from: "Jafisob"
Quote from: "Toe"
I guess I approach it from more of a roleplaying standpoint. My character does not want to die. So I roleplay him to that effect. When I die, it makes sad, angry, frustrated, or even at times proud (as in fighting bravely against hopeless odds).

Thats all the penalty I need. I do not need some arbitrary "punishment" forced on me through game mechanics.


I agree.  I try not to die because I don't want my character to die.  A small WoW like penalty versus the old EQ mega pimp is still preferable to me.  Sometimes I would quit early in EQ because I would not have time for a corpse run if I died.  I would not play the day before a long vacation because if I died someplace tough there might be an issue.

I remember in DAOC once you were 50 and had some extra cash there were people who would suicide as a free teleport home.  I could not get myself to do it.  It felt wrong.  I am glad there is some disincentive in WoW so you don't see suicide teleports.


Bah Lvl 50's?  I was 'poor man's porting' from lvl 1 up.  Espically right after you dinged(no exp hit).  I nose dived off the ramparts in uppland numerous times smile.  Buried in a dungeon?  Cant find a 'rabbit hole' ?  I bet those Vendo over there will help ya get out  biggrin
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Falator
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2005, 11:16:57 PM »

I said paying 1g after being killed a few times Tongue

And being killed does hurt a lot in instances. It sure hurts when your group gets wiped out deep into a long instance and half of your group leaves because they don't want to fight through the whole dungeon again since its all respawned.

Or what about when you are trying to get past a bunch of high levels to do a quest and you die, only to be transported to the graveyard on the other side of the zone  :?
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2005, 01:42:41 AM »

Quote from: "Shkspr"
Bah.  There should be only one death penalty in MMORPGs - "Select New Character".  :wink:

In a related story, I just made it to level 9!  biggrin

Permadeath has its place in the MMO world, but there hasn't been a 'true' MMORPG yet that's made a worthy case for it.

The best games for the permadeath option (and it should be just that -- an option) are games in which character advancement is so fast that the threat of permanent wipeout actually adds to the experience.  The obvious example is Diablo 2's Hardcore mode, though Guild Wars might be able to pull off something similar.
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Jafisob
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2005, 03:20:38 AM »

Who needs a death penalty in WoW?  They have now instituted a lag penalty whether you die or not.  :evil:
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