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Author Topic: WoW and how it's evolved  (Read 6835 times)
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Gratch
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« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2009, 03:28:26 AM »

Put in a couple hours tonight, and thought it was pretty fun overall.  I wasn't crazy about a) the majority of the quests being the "kill 10 rats" variety or b) the 2 lag deaths I got hit with, but other than that I had a good time knocking out a few levels and getting some new gear.  Not completely sold on buying the game yet, but starting to lean that way.

First, and most important question:  How do you turn off the General Chat (I think that's what it's called)?  The one where all the 12-year-olds are telling each other to suck dicks and calling each other fags.  That's just gotta go.

Quote
+1. When I played WoW for about 1.5 years, I saved a lot of money. Instead of buying 2-3 games per month, I bought 1-2 games in 1.5 years..

See, I'm not sure I want that.  I don't buy a ton of games anymore, but there's enough good stuff out there that I don't want to spend all my time on just one thing.  Gotta be a well-rounded gamer, ya know.  smile
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« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2009, 03:58:05 AM »

Chat Commands

The main WoW site is chocked full of good information about the game in general.
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« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2009, 03:18:31 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on July 07, 2009, 03:06:52 AM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on July 07, 2009, 03:00:47 AM

Quote from: Toe on July 06, 2009, 01:36:40 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on July 04, 2009, 02:25:44 AM

Quote from: Sparhawk on July 03, 2009, 03:19:32 PM

Quote from: PR_GMR on July 02, 2009, 07:49:09 PM

Quote from: Jag on July 02, 2009, 07:22:20 PM



Ultimately the time commitment became too much. I have 4 80 level toons in full end game gear. There isn't much left to do outside of raiding so it was just easier to quit cold turkey. Unfortunately solo games just don't have the same depth and enjoyment as raiding with a guild full of great players and friends.

Good Lord, not 1 but *4* lvl 80 toons?! You must've been addicted. If I get one toon to lvl 80 that will be a supreme achievement for me.

It doesn't take that long to level up a toon to 80 from 70. And Death Knights start at 55... Even a fresh level 1 toon can make it to 80 in less than 48 hours played. I put more time into single player rpgs...

Wow, that's fast.  How can you level that fast?  I'm leveling up a long-dormant alt and it's taking me a good 5-6 hours per level from 75-80.  I'm pretty quick at leveling, too.  I'm seeing the power leveling sites advertising 6 or 7 days played, but not 2.  

There is no way a fresh level 1 can level to 80th with 48 hours played time. No way at all. It might be possible if you had help (teleports/passenger mount, mass killing of mobs, recruit-a-friend triple exp bonus), but no way on your own.

It is possible with second toon after you have a high level rich toon. You need to spend money to get gears to speed up the killing then just do the "easy" quests. From 1-60, no matter what your level is, you have at least 3 possible location to quest. Instead of doing just all quest in a single location, you do the easy quests then move to the other two to do the easy quests there. Leave the time consuming and hard quest for later or don't do them at all. Good quests for levelling are those that ask you to kill certain numbers of mobs or to get certain numbers of easy drop. Don't do quest that you need to find rare drop.

One more thing, I think it is only possible in the non PvP server. At PvP server, there is too much distraction so it'll be slower. You also need to avoid certain zones in PvP server if you want to level up fast which mean there are less choice of quests to do.


Uh, no.  Again, even the guide sites are saying 7 days from 1-80.  I haven't seen anything that says 48 hours is even remotely possible.  

I guess it would be more possible with refer a friend (triple xp) and the heirloom items (+10% xp). The guides just factor in straight leveling. Also I'm pretty sure Zygor's quote is also before they recently reduced the leveling time in TBC between 60-70. (ie: increased xp in TBC content).

Recently Blizz also made some improvements to help speed up early leveling, including faster/better flights, more flight points, new quest hubs, shorter hearthstone cooldowns and making high xp elite group quests soloable, among others things.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 03:30:11 PM by Jag » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2009, 05:35:36 PM »

Quote from: Jag on July 07, 2009, 03:18:31 PM


I guess it would be more possible with refer a friend (triple xp) and the heirloom items (+10% xp). The guides just factor in straight leveling. Also I'm pretty sure Zygor's quote is also before they recently reduced the leveling time in TBC between 60-70. (ie: increased xp in TBC content).

Recently Blizz also made some improvements to help speed up early leveling, including faster/better flights, more flight points, new quest hubs, shorter hearthstone cooldowns and making high xp elite group quests soloable, among others things.

They are lowering the level restrictions and costs of mounts again with the next patch.  A mount at 20 will be a godsend!

I've thought that they need to turn the 1-60 (or 70 or 80... depending on where the current level cap is) content into a short quest series similar to the Death Knight starting zone, but maybe about 10 times longer time wise.  They could present all of the relevant lore as a series of stories and phase the world as they go along.  Doing this they could remap some of the old raid bosses into ad hoc group fights similar to the ending of the DK starter quest, or they could just have the player assist a load of npcs. 

They could even put tutorial quests in at relevant levels to teach some of the basic group mechanics, such as tanking, healing, threat management, dps management, and phased fights. 

If they took this approach to the old content, they could then completely reconstruct the old world to have it reflect the changes of the past 5 years.  They could also rebuild the old world to support the latest 3D engine they are running... this would let us use our flying mounts there!  This idea would mean a permanent end to old content, but it has been 5 years... after Arthas is 'defeated', we will have to come to accept that Onyxia is really dead.
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« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2009, 12:24:11 AM »

I quit playing about 2 months ago after a fairly substantial stint of playing. (6 months straight or so) Been starting to get the itch again, but will try to resist.

I only ever had one 80 that I played - leveling was pretty boring the second time through. I did enjoy the raiding scene but the time + setup + general bitchiness of setting up a raid is a serious turnoff for me. Nothing like playing your ass off, getting to 80 and reaching the point where the only thing worth doing is chatting, battlegrounds and raiding. BGs got sickening after about the 100th time. I never felt much like a min/maxer though, so trying to slog through a raid encounter for three hours straight, going through the setup, failing, failing, failing again, coming close (by close I mean seeing phase 2), then failing again miserably five times straight.

Okay. That just pretty much killed the itch I had.
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« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2009, 12:59:32 AM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on July 10, 2009, 12:24:11 AM

I quit playing about 2 months ago after a fairly substantial stint of playing. (6 months straight or so) Been starting to get the itch again, but will try to resist.

I only ever had one 80 that I played - leveling was pretty boring the second time through. I did enjoy the raiding scene but the time + setup + general bitchiness of setting up a raid is a serious turnoff for me. Nothing like playing your ass off, getting to 80 and reaching the point where the only thing worth doing is chatting, battlegrounds and raiding. BGs got sickening after about the 100th time. I never felt much like a min/maxer though, so trying to slog through a raid encounter for three hours straight, going through the setup, failing, failing, failing again, coming close (by close I mean seeing phase 2), then failing again miserably five times straight.

Okay. That just pretty much killed the itch I had.

I can't believe how long I stayed in WoW and can count on one hand how many raids I went on. Not sure what I did to keep the interest up??? Maybe I was in a drug-induced haze........They did call WoW, on-line crack at one time.
All I know is near the end just the thought of logging on made me feel a tad sick. Bring on the withdrawls.
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Larraque
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« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2009, 03:42:38 AM »

When I quit Wow, I would log in and immediately upon logging in feel bored. (Then when I wasn't playing I was thinking about what I could be doing to advance the character...) Being overlooked for raids was also a bit of a negative. Show up 30 minutes early. Watch 20 or so other people log on. They have better heal numbers / gear, so they go. I sit and wait til the raid time passes, no invite, log off for the night. Yay?
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« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2009, 10:30:56 AM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on July 10, 2009, 03:42:38 AM

When I quit Wow, I would log in and immediately upon logging in feel bored. (Then when I wasn't playing I was thinking about what I could be doing to advance the character...) Being overlooked for raids was also a bit of a negative. Show up 30 minutes early. Watch 20 or so other people log on. They have better heal numbers / gear, so they go. I sit and wait til the raid time passes, no invite, log off for the night. Yay?

Yeah, WoW does promote elitism at the higher levels. Gear-centric games with no other objective other than to getter the next best thing will always do that.
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« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2009, 01:00:28 AM »

I have found that if I wait until some of the guild members have the new dungeon on farm, then they'll let me come, and I feel more comfortable coming. I don't need to be the first or even early to see a dungeon, I'd just like to see it at some point. I refuse to participate in the rat race to have the best, 'good enough' is good enough for me  icon_lol
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Gratch
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« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2009, 03:28:18 AM »

You know, all this isn't very encouraging for someone who just started.  slywink
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« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2009, 02:56:29 PM »

Gratch it seems that people forget the key thing about a game is that first its to have fun.  If you are enjoying yourself then dont concern yourself so much about gear and get wrapped up in the progression wheel.  It sounds like a lot of people here that's been a concern for them and it will burn you out if you are constantly chasing gear.  There are players that will run an instance every day just to try and get that one item that is rated a few points more than an item they currently have.  When you get in that mode it becomes a job.

Find yourself a group of people to play with that aren't the hard core raiders and you can have fun.

For me a lot of times it was more about just having fun with some people in the guild busting each others chops on ventrillo while we ran an instance.
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« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2009, 03:56:37 PM »

Yeah, I highly doubt I will ever get to the point that I will be concerned about the high level stuff.  I'm perfectly content to wander the wastelands by myself, and smack around a few things that get in my way.  I don't have the time, patience, or energy to do stuff like Dragonfyre was describing. 
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« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2009, 05:50:34 PM »

Thread necro!

I just got a free copy of Lich King from someone at work, and that combined with having finished the two most recent new games and having nothing new and shiny to play until Brutal Legend got me to resub to WoW the other night.

My history with it is that I got in at launch and ran with the Wanderers on Whisperwind for a while, getting my main priest up to around lvl 30.  At that point, my slower playtime got me stuck in the level gap between the rest of the guild's mains and alts, so I was soloing all the time, and I got bored and quit.  I resubbed with BC (I have the CEs of both!), and got my priest up to the high 30s, mucked with some alts, and then quit again.  Finally, resubbed again in the spring of '08 for a month, got the priest up to 39, and quit again.

All the recent leveling changes, plus really wanting to see the death knight stuff got me back in, and I'd heard Carbonite really helped.

Holy crap, with Carbonite, it's like a different game.  My least favorite part of WoW was always trying to figure out where the hell I needed to go to find quest objectives.  With Carbonite, the GPS-like functionality that I loved in WAR is now in WoW.  I basically always feel like I'm accomplishing something, since I can pretty much bounce from objective to objective until my bags are full, then go turn in. 

Also, the increased leveling speed is crazy.  In two days of playing, I got my priest from 39 to mid 43, plus was able to put together the cash to get my 150 speed mount by selling silk and some greens on the auction house.

So now my next thing is going to be figuring out what instances I should be running.  I really need some better gear.  I'm wearing mostly stuff that's 10 levels below me, and I like the dungeons.  Unfortunately, the LFG calls in chat are like greek to me.  Also, I never did a ton of healing (see previous problem with always being too low level), so being main healer on an instance run makes me nervous.  Any tips?
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« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2009, 06:07:11 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 05:50:34 PM

Thread necro!

I just got a free copy of Lich King from someone at work, and that combined with having finished the two most recent new games and having nothing new and shiny to play until Brutal Legend got me to resub to WoW the other night.

My history with it is that I got in at launch and ran with the Wanderers on Whisperwind for a while, getting my main priest up to around lvl 30.  At that point, my slower playtime got me stuck in the level gap between the rest of the guild's mains and alts, so I was soloing all the time, and I got bored and quit.  I resubbed with BC (I have the CEs of both!), and got my priest up to the high 30s, mucked with some alts, and then quit again.  Finally, resubbed again in the spring of '08 for a month, got the priest up to 39, and quit again.

All the recent leveling changes, plus really wanting to see the death knight stuff got me back in, and I'd heard Carbonite really helped.

Holy crap, with Carbonite, it's like a different game.  My least favorite part of WoW was always trying to figure out where the hell I needed to go to find quest objectives.  With Carbonite, the GPS-like functionality that I loved in WAR is now in WoW.  I basically always feel like I'm accomplishing something, since I can pretty much bounce from objective to objective until my bags are full, then go turn in.  

Also, the increased leveling speed is crazy.  In two days of playing, I got my priest from 39 to mid 43, plus was able to put together the cash to get my 150 speed mount by selling silk and some greens on the auction house.

So now my next thing is going to be figuring out what instances I should be running.  I really need some better gear.  I'm wearing mostly stuff that's 10 levels below me, and I like the dungeons.  Unfortunately, the LFG calls in chat are like greek to me.  Also, I never did a ton of healing (see previous problem with always being too low level), so being main healer on an instance run makes me nervous.  Any tips?

Welcome to easy mode.  smile

First, I'd learn the designations for instances so you can identify which ones are what.  Like SM = Scarlet Monastery, RFK = Razorfen Kraul, ST = Sunken Temple, BRD = Blackrock Depths and ZF = Zul Farak.  Hopefully I got most of the ones you'll need for the next 10 levels in there besides Uldaman, which no one goes to anyway.  biggrin

As for healing, I've been playing a priest for a loooong time, but I can still remember my first instances.  It's a bit butt-puckering the first time you go to heal a group.

So here are some tips:

Have a few pieces of healing gear in your bag if you need it.  The good thing is that as a priest, you're probably already wearing it!  I'm going to assume you're leveling up shadow, which is ok - you can still heal most leveling instances in shadow if you have a decent tank (and you're only as good as your tank).  Remember, you're not there to keep everyone alive - you're there to keep the party from wiping.  I can't stress that enough!  So your heal priority goes something like:

1. Main tank
2. Yourself
3.  Top dps
4.  Off tank / middle DPS
5.  Lowest dps

Don't forget yourself...many new priests do.  Have plenty of water, keep your mana up and stand back from the fight out of AOE range.  If you get an add, shield and bring it back to the tank - do not run away from the tank!  Just using renew and flash heal will get you through most instances at that level.  

Mods like Perl Unitframes and Decursive can be very helpful (both available at Curse) but they're not entirely necessary.

Note that you'll run into bad tanks, dpsers who jump the gun and pull aggro and simple bad luck.  These will cause wipes.  Many PuGs blame the healer when the group wipes.  It's up to you on whether you want to put up with it or not.  But as the healer, you can be a bit pushy if you need to be.  For example, saying "OOM does not mean Out of Mobs" or "If you pull aggro and feign death standing next to me again, you're gone" is fine if folks are acting stupid.  I'm not above speaking my mind if it's going to help us finish the instance.

But just go and heal.  You'll screw up and wipe the group.  You'll pop the soulstone in the middle of the battle and get killed again.  That happens.  Just start healing and if you're earnestly trying to keep the group alive, you'll probably instantly be better than about 50% of the healers out there.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 06:09:23 PM by Blackadar » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2009, 06:14:40 PM »

At 43 I wouldn't worry about instances (unless you want to see them). Buy some level appropriate cheap blues/greens on the AH and use quest rewards for now. Quest until 58 at which point you can head to TBC and get TBC quest rewards (and TBC greens) which are on par with vanilla wow level 60 instance/raid rewards. You can also level now in PVP Battlegrounds which is a fun alternative.

If I still played I would toss some gold your way, you don't need much. You can hit Gedd or Zurai up for it biggrin
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« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2009, 06:21:41 PM »

I love easy mode!

I guess I'll wait and see if people are actually running instances in my level range.  I dumped alchemy and picked up skinning in hopes of being able to start selling herbs and leather on the auction house for spare cash.  Really, my goal is to get up to where I can start a death knight, since all the reports are that their opening quest line is awesome.

After that, I'll have to decide if I want to continue on with my current character, or re-roll on the server one of my co-workers is on. 
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« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2009, 06:51:01 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 06:21:41 PM

I love easy mode!

I guess I'll wait and see if people are actually running instances in my level range.  I dumped alchemy and picked up skinning in hopes of being able to start selling herbs and leather on the auction house for spare cash.  Really, my goal is to get up to where I can start a death knight, since all the reports are that their opening quest line is awesome.

After that, I'll have to decide if I want to continue on with my current character, or re-roll on the server one of my co-workers is on. 

The DK quest series is pretty awesome.  Too bad that so many people don't know how to play one after that quest series.  smile

If you get the chance to heal, do it.  That's what you'll be asked to do - repeatedly - at max level.  You might as well figure out whether you like it or not before you level the rest of the way.  Many folks hate it.  Personally, I love it.

Good call on the alchemy thing.  Raw materials always sell for more gold than finished goods.  Herbalism and skinning should be pretty profitable, especially those level 40-55 materials.  Those always sell like hotcakes.
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« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2009, 06:57:57 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 06:21:41 PM

I love easy mode!

Indeed. Or rather, "non-pain-in-the-ass mode" as I prefer to call it. slywink The game is easier primarily because of the removal of annoyances. Not really any less of a challenge than it ever was (it wasn't).

I've really enjoyed levelling up on various alts lately as it feels more like a game and less like a chore!
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« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2009, 07:03:46 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 06:21:41 PM

I love easy mode!

I guess I'll wait and see if people are actually running instances in my level range.  I dumped alchemy and picked up skinning in hopes of being able to start selling herbs and leather on the auction house for spare cash.  Really, my goal is to get up to where I can start a death knight, since all the reports are that their opening quest line is awesome.

After that, I'll have to decide if I want to continue on with my current character, or re-roll on the server one of my co-workers is on. 

Mining is much more profitable than skinning, especially at lower levels. slywink
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« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2009, 07:04:27 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on October 05, 2009, 06:57:57 PM

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 06:21:41 PM

I love easy mode!

Indeed. Or rather, "non-pain-in-the-ass mode" as I prefer to call it. slywink The game is easier primarily because of the removal of annoyances. Not really any less of a challenge than it ever was (it wasn't).

I've really enjoyed levelling up on various alts lately as it feels more like a game and less like a chore!

One man's challenge is another man's annoyance.  smile
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« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2009, 07:26:29 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on July 07, 2009, 03:28:26 AM

Put in a couple hours tonight, and thought it was pretty fun overall.  I wasn't crazy about a) the majority of the quests being the "kill 10 rats" variety..

First, and most important question:  How do you turn off the General Chat (I think that's what it's called)?  The one where all the 12-year-olds are telling each other to suck dicks and calling each other fags.  That's just gotta go.
As someone who has played a large variety of MMOs (including just one free month of WoW back a little after it launched), I hate to break it to you, but most MMOs suffer from both of those things -- too many "kill 10 rat" quests and too many chat channels that read like an AOL chat room (or at least AOL chat rooms when i used them in the mid 1990s).   icon_smile I've found LOTRO to probably have the most "well behaved" chat channels fwiw. I guess you could argue that the more monstrously popular an MMO is, the more likely it'll draw in a larger nastier element even if the vast populace is probably OK.

I think the other reason I quit WoW in early 2005 was because I found the mouse-look control worked differently than in City of Heroes (my addiction of the day). If WoW was like Champions Online (which lets you choose from a variety of different mouse/key overall control setup schemes), and I'd been able to get a mouse view scheme like COH's, I might well have stuck with it. I don't remember the precise difference -- I think in one you had to hold down the Ctrl key or something while moving the mouse to change the camera view; and the other one it just swiveled w/ no hotkey required (something, I found the difference one I couldn't get accustomed to, so switching between the two games was clumsy for me).

Did Blizzard ever add any sort of "sidekick/mentor" system in WoW, so you could group with other players of diverse levels and still earn appropriate XP? That was another stumbling block with me, as friends who got WoW power leveled by me so quickly, they had no interest in teaming with me after about a week.  tear

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« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2009, 07:29:53 PM »

I've healed in other games, and I had a few opportunities to heal the last time I played, so I can confirm that I enjoy doing it.  I just don't like the idea of not healing until the endgame, where I'll be expected to know what I'm doing.  Really, that's the strange thing about the WoW priest.  The best thing to do is solo up to the high levels as a shadow/DPS priest, at which point you're more or less expected to change to a healing spec and be able to heal.  It's like having to play one game so that you can play a different game.  I don't mind so much, it's just strange, and I don't look forward to getting told to "LRN 2 HEEL, NOOB" on my first instance run at 60.  slywink

I might dump herbalism in favor of mining.  I like skinning because I can gather without going out of my way at all, while mining and herbs require I divert over to nodes.

And I definitely agree that the "easy mode" is because of fewer annoyances.  It always amazed me that in a game with a huge world, they made you wait to get a mount until lvl 40, and then you paid through the nose for it.  I feel slightly guilty running around on a mount that used to cost 1,000g that I paid 9g for, but not that bad.  biggrin
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« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2009, 07:31:05 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on October 05, 2009, 07:26:29 PM

Did Blizzard ever add any sort of "sidekick/mentor" system in WoW, so you could group with other players of diverse levels and still earn appropriate XP? That was another stumbling block with me, as friends who got WoW power leveled by me so quickly, they had no interest in teaming with me after about a week.  tear



It's called "rest experience".   Tongue

Actually, not that I know of. 
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« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2009, 07:38:18 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 07:29:53 PM

I've healed in other games, and I had a few opportunities to heal the last time I played, so I can confirm that I enjoy doing it.  I just don't like the idea of not healing until the endgame, where I'll be expected to know what I'm doing.  Really, that's the strange thing about the WoW priest.  The best thing to do is solo up to the high levels as a shadow/DPS priest, at which point you're more or less expected to change to a healing spec and be able to heal.  It's like having to play one game so that you can play a different game.  I don't mind so much, it's just strange, and I don't look forward to getting told to "LRN 2 HEEL, NOOB" on my first instance run at 60.  slywink

I might dump herbalism in favor of mining.  I like skinning because I can gather without going out of my way at all, while mining and herbs require I divert over to nodes.

And I definitely agree that the "easy mode" is because of fewer annoyances.  It always amazed me that in a game with a huge world, they made you wait to get a mount until lvl 40, and then you paid through the nose for it.  I feel slightly guilty running around on a mount that used to cost 1,000g that I paid 9g for, but not that bad.  biggrin

You don't want to go mining/herbalism since you can only track one at a time on your mini-map.  

I entirely agree about healing early.  But you don't have to go shadow...disc leveling may be a bit slower, but it's entirely viable now.  Once you can get reflective shield and imp inner fire, you can just pop that, dot the mob and watch them die while banging on your shield.  It's even better at level 75 with mind sear.  Dot, shield, mind sear...I'll pull 5 to 8 mobs at a time with no problems that way.

Of course, you don't have to change into a healer at later levels either.  A shadow priest isn't all that common, but they're fair dpsers (not great) and are welcome into most groups.
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« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2009, 08:12:16 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 07:29:53 PM

I don't look forward to getting told to "LRN 2 HEEL, NOOB" on my first instance run at 60.  slywink

I wouldn't worry about it, most people aren't running instances until the TBC ones and those are going to be mostly DKs. They are able to burn through instances in all their OP glory and will be thrilled to have a healer around.

You will get some experience healing as you level more and start doing some group quests. WoW did away with almost all lower level group quests (I'd probably still be playing LOTRO if they did), so you won't really see much of them anymore.

Healing really isn't hard. I got my Druid to 80 as feral before I started using her to heal. I picked it up really quick.
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« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2009, 08:15:14 PM »

One of the nice bits  of my current WoW experience is that I'm running a dual monitor now.  I run WoW on the widescreen, and watch videos on the other.  I burned through season 4 of Futurama and part of the first season of Supernatural over the weekend.  It really cuts down on the boredom of slaughtering the entire gorilla population of STV looking for an Aged Gorilla Sinew or flying the entire length of the continent to turn in a quest.
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« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2009, 08:38:26 PM »

heh, I do this on Aion and just watched 4 seasons of Supernatural while playing.
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« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2009, 08:54:25 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on October 05, 2009, 07:04:27 PM

Quote from: Farscry on October 05, 2009, 06:57:57 PM

Quote from: Chaz on October 05, 2009, 06:21:41 PM

I love easy mode!

Indeed. Or rather, "non-pain-in-the-ass mode" as I prefer to call it. slywink The game is easier primarily because of the removal of annoyances. Not really any less of a challenge than it ever was (it wasn't).

I've really enjoyed levelling up on various alts lately as it feels more like a game and less like a chore!

One man's challenge is another man's annoyance.  smile

Just to explain myself a little better, the main reason I don't consider most of what has been changed to be a reduction of challenge is because it basically amounts to the removal or mitigation of time-sinks. The only real reduction of challenges in levelling up that's happened (that I've noticed; I certainly don't pretend to know everything about the game! smile) is the downgrading of many of the old elite mobs in various areas (such as the ogres in Loch Modan's northeastern reaches) to be regular mobs. And the reason Blizz did this was due to the scarcity of players to form groups in these areas while levelling up anymore.
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« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2009, 02:39:36 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on July 06, 2009, 10:29:07 PM

Well, you guys have talked me into it.  I'm going to try another 10 day trial, and see if it hooks me for more than a day or two this time.  smile

Might be back with questions.

I started playing for the first time 2 months ago.  So far, I've only run into a couple people who were asses.  Most pugs have been pretty cool (skill levels vary, but the attitude has been mostly okay.  So far have only run into one ninja looter).  I play on Bronzebeard, so I can't speak for any other servers.  Don't know if it makes a difference.  General chat still has some stupidity going on, though.

My experience has been that the first 10 levels suck.  Fortunately, you level pretty fast.  10-20 things get better, but are not great.  Once you hit 20+, then it becomes fun.  Your character is getting a variety of skills to use and (now) you can get a basic mount for cheap to make traveling much easier.  If you have a good friend to play with, questing goes by fast and is MUCH more fun (to me, at least). 

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« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2009, 08:51:02 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on October 05, 2009, 08:54:25 PM

Just to explain myself a little better, the main reason I don't consider most of what has been changed to be a reduction of challenge is because it basically amounts to the removal or mitigation of time-sinks. The only real reduction of challenges in levelling up that's happened (that I've noticed; I certainly don't pretend to know everything about the game! smile) is the downgrading of many of the old elite mobs in various areas (such as the ogres in Loch Modan's northeastern reaches) to be regular mobs. And the reason Blizz did this was due to the scarcity of players to form groups in these areas while levelling up anymore.

Exactly.  Anything that reduces time-sinks is good.

Who in the world thinks that time-sinks equals skills?  That's stupid.
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« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2009, 05:41:43 PM »

Ok... I have played from day 1-10ish... Almost Heroes (Or its alternative at the time) with a paladin and Daehawk (Youd be amazed how 2 paladins rarely died, took forever to kill something but pretty much had the run of quests or whatever we were doing).  I grinded a lot... A LOT...  After about a month, I resubscribed and then a week later realized my grades were tanking in school so I put Semajicus down... roughly 54 and didn't miss it much.

Then When PVP and Penny Arcade decided to join a server and brawl, I re-subbed and hopped on.  I brought a few friends (RL... etc) and we started up there.  I played a priest and pretty much made a name for myself for being a solid healer, but more accurately, for more or less being the most visible member of most guilds I was in in how much I chatted and talked to people or helped someone out.  Anyways... I played till about 52 and just got sick of leveling... I prolly would have stopped there if I hadnt made enough friends to just log on and chat.  Eventually people forced me to level.  Which required level 60 rogues or druids to follow me around until I hit 54 or 55 and could do instances and not get ganked every 5 minutes by a bored 60.  I have a fairly solid idea of how it was and how it is now:

1) Leveling is a joke.  1-60 used to be this godawful grindfest where there was not enough quests and you had to run around trying to find things to do or mobs to kill for a hour or 4.  It would take like 10-12 days played to hit 60 and thats if you were good.  The onine community wasnt as solid as it is now (Read guides were non existent).  So you pretty much had to tab out, go to thott, see if the quest was there or where something was, run to it, look around, tab back, read comments and hope they helped, complete the quest and then run back, look at another quest and find out you missed 2 quests in the same area.

Now, you have recruit a friend and can 1-60 in about two days played, or do it normally in 3-4ish.   60-70 takes a day played and 70-80 should take 2 more.  They have online in game guides to help you find things and do quests (carbonite, questhelper, etc.) and simply put, leveling isn't the chore it once was.  Now it's more of a "time to learn your class some and ways to kill time before you hit 80."  It just is so much easier it isn't funny.

2) Raiding isnt what it once was.
Same thing with online community as before.  Now you can go to Tankspot and watch videos of how to kill the current content.  There are many many many places that will tell you the raid fights and what you should be doing, and they can show you how.  Add-ons will announce what is occurring and what you should do.  It's pretty much a like any old zelda game of learning the patterns and just doing whats needed.  

You have 5 man instances, 5 man heroic instances, 10 mans, 10 man hard modes and 25 mans.

I remember running to fight a boss, if you were not spaced properly the raid wiped.  Now they have things that tell you if someone is too close.  In a 40 man, your goal was to keep half the raid alive to clear it.  People dying was expected, the bosses just killed so quickly.  I'll talk about gear below.

3) Getting epics is like getting the new blues.

There was a time getting a blue was good.  Over time you tried to replace every green you had with blues.  It required running a lot of instances.  Now, regular instances might drop a purple on the final boss, heroics, they do drop purples and the instances have 8-10 bosses (Naxx has like 15ish?) whcih drop 4ish purples each.

40 men and 6 bosses = 1/3rd of a raid might get a purple a night.  25 men and 8 bosses means everyone should get a purple.  If you are moving and it's a ten man, you might get 3+ purples.  God knows I ran 25 man naxx as the only leather worker one week and got.... 10ish purples?

People have a mod called Gearscore that rates peoples gear.  You can tell what someone has got and how much they have run things.  You also can 18 or 16 mana  25 man instance or 9 or 8 man a 10.  Fights are just easier now.

I can sit there and farm regular ToC (A new tournament instance set up near arthas) with new characters, and a 20 to 30 min run (tops) nets 4ish purples that dont suck.  You can pretty mcuh gear chars for raids well just running it a few times a day.  We wont even talk about buying raid level epics with badges you get from running instances... For those people who roll like crap.

Purples used to be a holy grail.  Someone all geared out in purples spent a long time working to get them all and was scarry.  Now, everyone and their brother should be near all purples within 2 or 3 weeks of casual playing.

-------------------------

What it means to me is wow is now way more casual friendly.  You dont need the time commitment you once did.  You will get elitists, but you always did.  Now its a matter of spending the 10 minutes necessary to look up a fight you don't know and if worse comes to worse you might wipe once or twice as you learn it.

I have 2 friends, one who was decent back in the days of MC and his GF who is new.

She has an 80 boomkin, he has an 80 feral druid.  She plays maybe twice a week for only a couple hours and is ready to run instances.  He works 2 jobs and goes to school.  I expect both of them to be all purpled out inside two weeks, I have 3 or 4 friends lined up to help run instances and get them what they need.  

The game is easier, but it does keep some wonder the first time you run into Ulduarr or ToC with a raid and you see bosses for the first time and you spend time learning the patterns and doing.  There isn't the same level of fear as you got trying to drop AQ 40 bosses or when you walked into Naxx at level 60.

Me I just wish they would have a hardcore mode where the bosses are unforgiving and the gear barely rates the work.  It would feel like much more of a challenge and make me have the feeling of fear and terror I had when I first walked into Molten Core.  Something I think most would complain about, but some would appreciate.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 05:46:05 PM by Semaj » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2009, 08:04:47 PM »

It all has to do with Blizzard's major shift in raid content philosophy. They grew tired of spending so much time creating raid content that a large percentage of their customers never got to see. So they came up with the current dynamics of progression, which I think are really awesome. Because I was in that large % that, while and avid player, did not have the time or commitment to raid all the time (admitedly part of my problem was being on a west-coast server while being in CST zone). I seen and conquered Molten Core with a rag-tag group of small guilds,  but other than that, never got to do much raiding in old world. Never completed AQ40, SSC, BT, although did kill some bosses in those places. So, again,  I am all for the current philosophy of most all the content being accessisble to a much larger % than previously. It makes sense all the way around (imho anyway)

Personally I never felt like the leveling speed was a big deal. I leveled many characters and never felt it was a grind. This was probably due to the previous MMOs I played (mainly EQ and DaoC), where grinding meant "go to a level appropriate spot and kill the same mobs over and over and over". True, in WoW there were some spots in leveling progression where you had to do some significant travelling if you wanted to find some quests, but those spots were few and far between (for me anyways). I made it a point to always be questing and never grind mobs for exps. (Just leveled my 8th character to 80 last week btw).

Quote
Me I just wish they would have a hardcore mode where the bosses are unforgiving and the gear barely rates the work.

Uh, they do have that, its call hardmode. While not exactly what you are describeing, it is how Blizzard plans to satisfy the hardcore raiders. Some dont like it cause its not the same as old school where the content was basically just designed for them, but still, hardmodes are, well, hard and offer greater rewards (not just fluff like 310% speed mounts, but also higher level gear). Hard modes were just introduced in the this last expansion so we really have not see how far Blizzard will push it, but it seems to be their direction.

Anyway, I love the direction Blizzard is taking and hope they keep it up. Looking foward to leveling up a dwarven mage and worgen druid next expansion, along with continued raiding with my warrior http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Runetotem&n=Gjond


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« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2009, 09:30:02 PM »

They continue to tweak hardmodes too. Heroic Trials of the Crusader is a far more significant step up from regular Trials of the Crusader (I don't mean going from 10 to 25, I mean normal 10 versus heroic 10) than any of the Ulduar hardmode bosses were over the normal modes. Much less forgiving of any mistakes. Which is awesome; you have the regular content so people can see it with reasonable effort, and the heroic stuff which is really going to kick the ass of anyone who isn't hardcore.

Seems like a nice compromise to me. smile
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« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2009, 10:37:36 PM »

I guess I haven't done enough heroic 10 mans....

But it just felt the creatures did more damage and had another wrinkle in some way, usually change in the time needed to kill it.  The only fights I ever felt were downright unforgiving were Thaddius (Where someone not paying attention tends to wipe out an entire side) and for those who don't know the safety Dance Heigan can be obnoxious and strenuous on healers.

I did quite a few bosses in Ulduarr (I'll be hitting TOC 10 mans this week, and prolly working on starting a guild 10 man Uld "Heroic"/Hardmode?) and none of them really gave me a lot of fear.  The Most interesting were Ignis (I just liked the construct concept?), The assembly of Iron... just cuz someone always forgets to look at the ground and you can nelson them afterwards (HA HA)... and of course Alagon... 1 hour timer, ridunkulous damage and a you cant survive this attack.... in hidsight this one almost gives me fear.. yeah it worries me some... I'd look forward to the fight.

But the rest of the fights felt like more of the same in some way. Well, sans Flame Lev, but that didnt seem terribly hard, more just unique.

I guess I should work on trying to get a few hard modes done and go against Alagon before I judge the new content too harshly?

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« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2009, 02:53:35 PM »

Not necessarily; that's the common complaint I've heard from the guys I know who want something tougher like the classic raid content, that the hard modes so far in Wrath have been rather underwhelming. But that's what I meant by Blizzard still working on it; the hard mode (heroic) of the new raid introduced in patch 3.2 is a much bigger step up from the standard difficulty version of it, whereas in Ulduar the hard modes weren't significantly more difficult than the normal modes in most cases.

I think what Blizzard is doing is a fantastic idea (trying to balance content so that there's a 'mainstream' challenge level and a 'hardcore' challenge level) but it's going to take time to figure out where to place the high jump bars for bronze medalers versus gold medalers. slywink

There's also a lot to be said for all the mods and such that are out there now to make things much easier, like Deadly Boss Mods and such. But that's not part of the standard Blizzard UI, so if people are going to use those things to make encounters easier, I don't hold that against Blizzard when it trivializes the challenges they craft.
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« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2009, 08:30:00 PM »

Quote from: Semaj on October 12, 2009, 05:41:43 PM

Me I just wish they would have a hardcore mode where the bosses are unforgiving and the gear barely rates the work.  It would feel like much more of a challenge and make me have the feeling of fear and terror I had when I first walked into Molten Core.  Something I think most would complain about, but some would appreciate.

How many Proto-Drakes do you have in your stable?  icon_wink

Those are the epeen for the hardcore mode... and it *IS* hard.  Bliz also retires rewards when they introduce gear that would trivialize the task of getting said reward.
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« Reply #76 on: October 16, 2009, 08:39:14 PM »

Due to thread necro, I read something that I posted months ago...

Quote from: RLMullen on July 09, 2009, 05:35:36 PM

I've thought that they need to turn the 1-60 (or 70 or 80... depending on where the current level cap is) content into a short quest series similar to the Death Knight starting zone, but maybe about 10 times longer time wise.  They could present all of the relevant lore as a series of stories and phase the world as they go along.  Doing this they could remap some of the old raid bosses into ad hoc group fights similar to the ending of the DK starter quest, or they could just have the player assist a load of npcs.  

They could even put tutorial quests in at relevant levels to teach some of the basic group mechanics, such as tanking, healing, threat management, dps management, and phased fights.  

If they took this approach to the old content, they could then completely reconstruct the old world to have it reflect the changes of the past 5 years.  They could also rebuild the old world to support the latest 3D engine they are running... this would let us use our flying mounts there!  This idea would mean a permanent end to old content, but it has been 5 years... after Arthas is 'defeated', we will have to come to accept that Onyxia is really dead.

OK, I'm wrong -- Onyxia isn't dead; she was strengthened and re-tuned.  I guess she was resting.

Other than that, I was eerily close to what they are doing in Cataclysm.  Although they aren't doing the "phased, accelerated, historical story", they are going much farther that I thought any developer would attempt in a mature MMO.

I still think they should rework and re-tune some of the older raids into Caverns of Time instances.
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« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2009, 09:22:30 PM »

Quote from: RLMullen on October 16, 2009, 08:39:14 PM


I still think they should rework and re-tune some of the older raids into Caverns of Time instances.

I'll be honest, I'm not even thrilled with a level 85 Heroic Deadmines or revamped Ony. I was so sick of those old raids that I doubt I would ever run a re-tuned one. I can see it benefiting newer people who never did it, but I'd rather the effort go into new encounters.
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« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2009, 05:15:16 PM »

I think the percentage of players who have done those early ones to death or even that often is fat outweighed by those that haven't hence making it more than worthwhile and probably a much quicker process than totally new stuff running alongside the new add on.
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« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2009, 07:12:09 PM »

Quote from: Jag on October 16, 2009, 09:22:30 PM

Quote from: RLMullen on October 16, 2009, 08:39:14 PM


I still think they should rework and re-tune some of the older raids into Caverns of Time instances.

I'll be honest, I'm not even thrilled with a level 85 Heroic Deadmines or revamped Ony. I was so sick of those old raids that I doubt I would ever run a re-tuned one. I can see it benefiting newer people who never did it, but I'd rather the effort go into new encounters.

How about those of us who have played for five years and have never seen the old raids.  Hell, to this day I still don't know where the various attunement quests begin. 

Deadmines is a bit different.  Because I started out Alliance, Deadmines was the first instance that I played.  There are definitely a good many memories - fond and not - in that place.  Even on a Horde character, if I need to farm wool for an alt, I go to Deadmines with a high level character -- just for the memories.
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