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Author Topic: Why WoW?  (Read 5789 times)
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Scott
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« on: November 04, 2004, 04:49:07 AM »

I've just got done playing for my first evening in WoW, and I have to say I'm completely unimpressed.  The graphics are pretty ehh, worse then City of Heroes and not really an upgrade from what I remember of Dark Ages of Camelot.  The cartoony look is fine, but the models aren't great, or the animation.

The combat/class system looks pretty basic so far.  Are all the classes going to be the same, one paladin the same as another?

There doesn't seem to be much variety in players either, one human looks pretty close to another.  There are a lot fewer faces and variety then I'd expect.

I guess I was expecting to be impressed, considering it is Blizzard and all the positive comments I've read.  I haven't read to deeply though, been waiting for the release.

Can someone summarize or post a link to a good read about why WoW is great, or at least different and advances the MMORPG genre?  Or is this just a pretty well done clone of EQ in the Warcraft universe?

(Sorry if this has been done, I looked on the board here and did't see anything detailed).  

On a side note, how can I get into the EQ2 beta to try it?
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2004, 05:08:24 AM »

I've been playing it for nearly a year now (was in F&F Alpha) and I still love playing the game.

What's revolutionary about it you ask?  It's so easy to grasp.  You pick it up and dive right in.  You don't need a group to do most things in the game.  I love that I can log in and without having a group go out and get a quest done or go hunting for mining nodes for my smithing.    

Every other level you get new skills and new abilities.  Every level after 10 you get points to put into talents which help diversify your class.  Right now paladins and hunters still don't have talents so every one is the same, but they're patching talents in next week so that will change then.

The graphics get the job done for me.  They fit PERFECTLY with the warcraft style.  Humans, dwarves, tauren, orcs...all look as you'd expect them to from playing the RTS.  I'd much rather they go with the low-poly & high art/texture approach that they have.  It just fits the game better.  Not to mention it allows you to have a high number of people in one place without a serious hit on performance.  PVP would be unbearable if characters had huge poly counts.   This is something EQ2 doesn't need to worry about since they have no PVP.

Yes, right now the selection of faces/hair styles is a bit lacking.  It's one thing I was disappointed in as well.  But the animations for abilities are pretty cool.  My paladin outside of her basic attack also has a stun attack that looks like a Ryu/Ken jumping uppercut and a Holy Strike which causes her to do a 360.  I'm sure there's more coming (again, with talents).  If you really want to see cool animations, watch a (mid-high lvl) rogue in action.  It's a virtual blender of attacks.  

As far as the combat system, it's not basic at all.  Sure, right now you're probably low level and only have holy strike, a heal and a couple auras, but it gets much better as you gain levels.   If you really want a lot of variety in melee combat, go with a warrior.  They have 3 different stances and each stance has its own abilities/attacks.  Or you could go druid which has its human form which is a spellcaster that does good amounts of damage and healing OR has a cat form which allows the druid to act as a rogue OR take bear form which allows the druid to act as a warrior.

Trust me, the game is great if you're looking for something a bit different.  There is no grind in WoW, at least not as I've seen in other games.  Sure, it's kind of disguised in the form of collection quests or kill x number of mob quests, but the quests give bonus experience and usually some nice item or some coin.  No matter your play style, I think WoW has a bit of something for everyone.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2004, 05:28:00 AM »

Lemme work on your points...

Graphics -  I love them. the cartoonish look really adds to the fantasy setting for me. I dont mind them at all. Very cool and not sparse like a lot of other games are.

Class sameness - In the beginning maybe. But if you save up your points when you lvl you can switch to other weapon types and that changes it completely.

Looks - Again seems to be a low lvl sameness. As you lvl people begin to wear different things and wield different weaapons. Heck for a long while I ran around naked smile I was a barbarian dwarf!
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Falator
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2004, 06:24:41 AM »

Blizzard has no real prior rpg experience. Diablow is the only thing that comes close and the second one was INSANELY POORLY balanced. The Diablows also lacked any real depth.
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-Lord Ebonstone-
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2004, 06:53:07 AM »

Quote from: "Falator"
Blizzard has no real prior rpg experience. Diablow is the only thing that comes close and the second one was INSANELY POORLY balanced. The Diablows also lacked any real depth.
LEWL I WIL SPEL IT WIT TEH WURD BLOW IN IT SO IT LOOKS BAD ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!!!11

 :roll:
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2004, 06:56:07 AM »

Two things I can suggest to you, Scott:

-Give it more time.  Everyone's basically the same til Level 5.  "Depth" and "Strategy" doesn't begin to rear its head before level 10.

-Try other classes and races.  Some will "click" with you, some won't... the class you thought was perfect for you might be really boring to you in practice.  Experiment.
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Falator
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2004, 06:59:11 AM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Falator"
Blizzard has no real prior rpg experience. Diablow is the only thing that comes close and the second one was INSANELY POORLY balanced. The Diablows also lacked any real depth.
LEWL I WIL SPEL IT WIT TEH WURD BLOW IN IT SO IT LOOKS BAD ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!!!11

 :roll:


OMG MY UNDED RUG MAKER OWNZ UR DWARVN RAT SLAYR!!!!1111ONE

heh i really don't like diablo 1 or 2 (although 1 was actually decent). They are very poor rpgs that lack anything even resembling depth. They also only have a very small amount of content in them (although again, 1 is a bit better than 2 here).
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The Rocketman
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2004, 08:59:58 AM »

Different preferences I guess... There is not a game in the world I have played as much as Diablo 2, especially cooperative with a friend. I wouldn't have been doing that if it had low content I think... It has AMAZING balancing I think Tongue

But this is no thread about Diablo 2. So, to keep this on topic, can I see some pictures of some high level armour-wearing chicks please smile
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Scott
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2004, 12:54:50 PM »

Excellent guys, that is what I wanted to hear.  I'll keep playing.  I've loved Blizzard's stuff, and the Warcraft world is a good one.  Thanks.
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2004, 02:50:29 PM »

Quote from: "The Rocketman"
Different preferences I guess... There is not a game in the world I have played as much as Diablo 2, especially cooperative with a friend. I wouldn't have been doing that if it had low content I think... It has AMAZING balancing I think Tongue

But this is no thread about Diablo 2. So, to keep this on topic, can I see some pictures of some high level armour-wearing chicks please smile


This is because it repeats the same content three times.

Amazingly balanced, eh? Spear ww barb. Firewall sorc (they even got a buff when they were gods heh). Enough said (if you have played diablo 2 for a bit you have lived through the hell those stupid patches have caused)
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Torfish
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2004, 03:34:46 PM »

WoW may not be too impressive from the initial retail release, but you must consider how Blizzard supports its games.  They will be improving, expanding, adding content for years to come.  Plus think of all the cool events Blizzard will be hosting and all the hidden treasure/secrets to find.  The ideas are endless.

Blizzard has the plans and manpower to make WoW fresh for a long time.  This is what excites me the most.
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Clanwolfer
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2004, 03:39:03 PM »

Quote from: "Torfish"
WoW may not be too impressive from the initial retail release, but you must consider how Blizzard supports its games.  They will be improving, expanding, adding content for years to come.  Plus think of all the cool events Blizzard will be hosting and all the hidden treasure/secrets to find.  The ideas are endless.

Blizzard has the plans and manpower to make WoW fresh for a long time.  This is what excites me the most.


That's what's keeping me, a general non-MMORPG player, interested in this one.  Blizzard seems like they have the infrastructure and the gameworld to toss some fun events and storyline in.  City of Heroes... eh.  I played for a while, hit the same wall that most everyone else seemed to, and now I'm waiting for another couple of content packs.  It's not so much the ability to add more content that I'm looking for in my next MMORPG, it's the ability to keep things interesting between big content dumps.  Not just 'play out what's there, yawn, ooh content dump, play out what's there now, yawn, etc.'
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2004, 05:38:01 PM »

Have they added in (or do they plan to add in) racial abilities for all the various races?
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jessie
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2004, 05:53:08 PM »

racial abilities are rumored to be in the next patch (one week)
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2004, 05:57:10 PM »

Yes, they are giving all races racial abilities.  Though it may not make it to retail in time.
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namatoki
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2004, 06:13:10 PM »

Quote from: "Torfish"
Yes, they are giving all races racial abilities.  Though it may not make it to retail in time.


IIRC, the sneak peek for the upcoming patch said paladin and hunter talents and racial traits are in.  Also more crafting items and some new high level spells/skills.

Okay, I think the last bit is a stretch, but I know that talents and traits are coming in the patch.

Hmmm... I tried finding the post about it, but I can't find it.  Maybe racial traits aren't in the next patch... *shrug*
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2004, 06:28:31 PM »

Main points of interest:

The game is not too complicated/hard to get into.
You can advance from Level 1-60 without ever needing a group.
Advancement can be achieved in small chunks of time.
Minimal downtime.
It's Warcraft.
It's Blizzard.
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2004, 06:48:47 PM »

Because its the best MMO I have ever played and the only one that has a chance of holding my interest long term.
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2004, 07:08:49 PM »

Okay so here's my question.  If I have tried several other MMORPG's and didnt' like any of them, would I like WoW?  I played both Star Wars Galaxies (I know, I know), Dark Age of Camelot, the free trials for Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call 2 and Planetside.  I also tried the beta for Saga of Ryzom.  I never stuck with any of these for longer than 2-3 weeks.  Reasons I didn't like them:
1) All appeared to have a high learning curve for a noob like myself.
2) Other players who were idiots.
3) The biggest for me: no draw to continue playing.  No story to unfold.  Nothing particularly exciting about the combat.  Bizarre respawning monsters reminded me of Gauntlet with its monster generators.  There was just the carrot dangling in front of me to get to the next level.

So why should I spend my $$ on WoW, not to mention a monthly fee?
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jessie
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2004, 07:30:33 PM »

1) Blizzard prides themselves on making games easy to get into.  WoW is no exception.  There's tooltips for everything.  Every stat is easy to understand.  Every ability is explained.  No secrets here.

2) any MMO is going to have idiots.  My suggestion is get into a guild with the rest of the Console Golders.  Also, WoW is a very solo-friendly game.  If people you know aren't on, there's still plenty of stuff you can accomplish by yourself.

3) As far as the story, blizzard has said that there will be game changing events, though they've kept these cards close to their chest.  Combat is fun and engaging...you don't just mash on one button over and over.  Melee classes are exciting to play, unlike many other MMO's.  There's a strategy involved.  Of course there's respawning monsters...there has to be in order for people to get anything done.  But in WoW the real fun is the dungeon crawls through the instanced dungeons.  These are HUGE levels that can take hours to complete, but they're all yours with great rewards.
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2004, 08:08:00 PM »

Warning, it sounds like you don't like the leveling process that is inherent to most of the games like this, so I'd guess you probably won't like WOW too much more than any other.  You might be better off trying something a little different like Guild Wars.
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2004, 08:54:07 PM »

There is a lot of story elements in WoW.  There are some very engaging quests with complex storylines.  If you are a fan of the Warcraft lore, you'll love this game.  It's so cool seeing the stuff from Warcraft in a more grand scale.  If you go to the Eastern Plaguelands, you'll see ziggurats, slaughterhouses, and abominations.  In the Blasted Lands, you can see the Dark Portal with dread lords guarding it.  It's all really cool.

As far as the instances, you'll be amazed at the depth of all the instances.  From Deadmines/Van Cleef all the way up to Blackrock Deeps and beyond, they are amazing.  The instances are for experienced players but you get really great rewards for doing them.  But keep in mind that you can get to lvl 60 without setting foot in any instance.
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2004, 11:40:13 PM »

I was in the open beta and I liked playing for awhile, but I got bored.  I'll probably pick this one up eventually.
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Scott
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2004, 03:34:35 AM »

I played a bit more today.  This afternoon was pretty fun.  This evening was pretty bad.  The 'newbie' areas were incredible crowded, three or four people competing for each spider, thistle boar, etc.  I can't imagine what launch day will look like!  The world seems very small to me now, and very crowded.  Is the world large enough, bigger then Everquest, Camelot?

Are there going to be instanced zones as well?
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2004, 03:38:37 AM »

all of the big dungeons are instanced.

newbie lands are pretty crowded, but they're also letting more people onto the servers than they expect at launch.  easy solution: don't play the first week smile
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2004, 03:39:22 AM »

Another dumb question, is there a limit to the things I can train, beyond money and level?  I assumed there would be one thing to train per level, or one choice to spend per level like in Diablo, but can't find reference to that anywhere.
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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2004, 04:44:52 AM »

The regular skills are just money/level limited.  Talents, however, progress very much like Diablo.  You have seperate trees, certain talents need prerequisite talents, you can invest multiple talent points in the same spot to boost it more, pretty much exactly like Diablo II.
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« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2004, 01:46:57 PM »

I like this thread.  Great info.  I have a question... and if you don't mind, any EQ2 people that can answer for EQ2 regarding the same thing, please do:

Grouping:  Let's say you like playing with a group of people.  For example, say I were to join the CG group (which, if it goes PvE, I probably will), but I don't have time to play nearly as much as others do.  When I am level 10 let's say; and Rage or jessie are level 15 let's say;  is there any way for me to be useful if I want to group with them?  

IoW... how much of a level differentiation is allowed before it just becomes "impractical" to travel and group together?

Thanks.

LD   :wink:
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Scott
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« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2004, 03:33:57 PM »

Quote
Talents, however, progress very much like Diablo. You have seperate trees, certain talents need prerequisite talents, you can invest multiple talent points in the same spot to boost it more, pretty much exactly like Diablo II.


Cool, thanks for the answer.  When do you get those talents, and how?  Do they start showing up at a certain level, like level 10?

I'm still concerned about world size though. It just looks small compared to DAoC or even EQ.  It looks like someone could run through it in an hour or so.  The elf island feels very tiny, but looking at the map, it really isn't.

I also watched the EQ2 demo, and the graphics look incredible, I hope WoW makes up for it in a lot of other ways.
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« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2004, 03:38:15 PM »

EQ2 it is 6 levels or 75% of the level of the highest group member, whichever is more.  Now that is for getting xp..for being useful.. I would say it depends on how high level the group is.  It also depends on the class.  My experience in EQ2 so far would be about a 4 level difference.
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« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2004, 04:10:04 PM »

Grouping levels: I think the same spread is probably true in WoW also, that is, if you're below 75% or your friends it won't work out too well. The quest-centric orientation of WoW also somewhat splits people up, since if your friends are 15 or 16 they'd typically be doing different quests than you at 10 - and many of their quests you wouldn't qualify for.

As for talents, yes you start getting talent points at level 10, and get one per level up to 60. So you end up with 50 points. Once you get a point, hit N to open your Talents panel, and inspect your choices (um, except for Hunters and Paladins, no talent love until next patch). Purchasing talents is easy - just click on what you want to invest in (by the same token, don't feel that you HAVE to spend those points the second you get em, you can think it over!).

In Beta there were talent retrainers where you could reset your talent purchases and try different ones - the Alliance one was by the Blue Pool in the Mage area in Ironforge (dunno where the Horde one is, sorry). There will be some sort of way to reset talent points in the live game, but Blizzard hasn't yet announced how.
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Scott
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2004, 07:32:56 PM »

More questions:

What are some of the really good sites with guides, and information on WoW?

How does the group find system work?  Do you have to shout, or is there a nice interface like CoH or DAoC?
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2004, 07:44:40 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
More questions:

What are some of the really good sites with guides, and information on WoW?

How does the group find system work?  Do you have to shout, or is there a nice interface like CoH or DAoC?


THE main WoW site is www.thottbot.com - others like Allakhazam and uh others are trying but thottbot is the main place most people use.

Group find? You can set a flag somewhere in one of the character windows. You can search for people with the flag. Since your progression is often tied to specific quests, many people go to the area they're questing in and just spam the general chat for people doing particular quests. Same is true for instanced dungeons.
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