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Author Topic: Why do I keep getting MMO's  (Read 3051 times)
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CeeKay
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« on: May 22, 2009, 10:28:02 PM »

When I know I'll play them for a month and more than likely never touch them again?  Right now I have probably about 6 of them collecting dust, and plans to buy a couple more that will probably end up with the same fate. Is there a help group for this?  Maybe we can come up with a new mental disorder or something....
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Razgon
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 10:30:54 PM »

You Sir, are an MMO whore....

like me, I'm afraid  ninja

I think I've played every major MMO there is, and then, nothing...I think, its because we realize, that its yet another MMO that, if you want to be competetive, you'll have to sink a LOT of time into it, and those of us above a certain age, with a social life or SO's, or other interests, just dont have the time, nor the inclination to do so
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 11:05:23 PM »

I played most of em and rarely played a month beyond the free one. I even have a lifetime sub to LOTRO, which is why I'm still playing that one.
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 07:40:21 AM »

It's no different than most PC games. Sure, there's some you're addicted to and play for years (for me, the first Diablo comes to mind), but more often, I play a new PC title for a month or maybe 3, and then it's shelved. That's even for what I consider classics like Company of Heroes and Left 4 Dead (the former I played for about 3 months in late 2006-early 2007; the latter for a few weeks after release).

The paid MMOs I've stuck with past the free 1st month are:
-Ultima Online (a year - though the game's servers were so fubared that 1st year, I hesitate to even call it a year  disgust)
-Planetside (6 months)
-City of Heroes (2004-2007, and a few scattered months since then)
-LOTRO (I too am on Lifetime now, but I feel dumb because I proceeded to lose interest weeks after I signed up for lifetime a few months back  retard)
-Age of Conan (for a few months after launch, then for a couple months early this year on a re-visit).
-Tabula Rasa (guess I played it a couple months beyond the free month).

Otherwise, I have a long list of free-month-and-outs, including the mighty Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot and WoW. And some more forgettable ones like Auto Assault. I won't lump Hellgate: London in there as a monthly fee wasn't required, even after month #1.

So don't beat yourself up about it.  icon_smile
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 07:42:28 AM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 07:54:55 AM »

Ck isn't a MMO whore so much as a gaming whore.  He'll buy anything slywink
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 08:14:30 AM »

I think the basic mistake most of us do with MMORPGs that ruins them for us is that we think we want to play them "all the time". I've been a subscriber to LOTRO for almost 2 years now, but I haven't played it all that time. I usually start out getting hooked, playing it for a few months, and then I grow tired of it. Instead of forcing myself to play, I just put the game aside. A few more months later, I pick it up again and find myself having lots of fun once again.

In other words, be more casual in how you approach MMORPGs. You're clearly not a hardcore player (for these kinds of games, anyhow), so don't force yourself to be. If you find yourself picking up tons of MMORPGs and leaving them behind, try going back to the first ones again (if you enjoyed them in the first place, that is). You might be surprised to rediscover the magic that hooked you initially.
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 12:06:31 PM »

I agree with Hilt, i revisit many mmo's an dplay for a moth or so then let it lapse and replay. All i can say is normally in the 1st month i get more than my money's worth in play time and for the cost of a 1 month resub the same again.

For some reason people think with mmo's they need to play it for 100's of hours to get value when really 20 or 30 hours is more than 90% of the games out is good value.
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« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2009, 07:01:53 PM »

You're most likely trying to find one that feels as fresh and exciting as your first MMO. It won't happen.
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2009, 09:14:06 PM »

Quote from: jersoc on May 23, 2009, 07:01:53 PM

You're most likely trying to find one that feels as fresh and exciting as your first MMO. It won't happen.

A lot of truth in that.  Probably like alot of other "firsts". The next time is never the same. paranoid nod
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morlac
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2009, 03:14:07 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on May 23, 2009, 09:14:06 PM

Quote from: jersoc on May 23, 2009, 07:01:53 PM

You're most likely trying to find one that feels as fresh and exciting as your first MMO. It won't happen.

A lot of truth in that.  Probably like alot of other "firsts". The next time is never the same. paranoid nod

Why can't be games be like sex?  Sure the first one was awesome because it was new and you didn't really know what you were doing.  Eventually you get the hang of it and find yourself able to play longer and do all sorts of neat tricks...
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2009, 05:18:59 PM »

And you can still solo when you don't have any friends.
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2009, 08:58:36 PM »

And down the slippery slope we go................... nod
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2009, 03:07:40 PM »

Up until about 5 years ago I was in the same situation, although I did play DAoC and AO off and on for at least 2 years each. The last MMO I bought was DDO and because of the "one month of play and I'm bored" syndrome that Ceekay described, I've now stopped buying them at all. Just recently I started playing the freebies and of those only those that are genuinely free of the need for microtransactions. Just no way I'm willing to pay for a single game and then pay to play it when there's decent freebies out there. The fact that my aging game rig doesn't run the new ones with all the bells and whistles doesn't help either.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2009, 07:47:47 PM »

This Warhammer Online interview (that's about a lot more than WO) touches on some interesting things going on in the MMO world:
http://www.mmogamer.com/05/24/2009/paul-barnett-speaks-part-two
Quote
Paul Barnett: I think it is an interesting time for people who are interested in MMOs.

We’re going through seismic shifts in how these games are going to be built, what markets they’re going to reach, and the people who are going to be able to play them.

We have certain people who are tinkering seriously with revenue generation systems, from micro-transactions to mega-transactions; from people who are looking at the ability to gate content, who are looking at expanding games away from just the endless combat cycle, and looking at making games much more socializing, broadening the market.

...

The original mechanics of the amount of burn time you put into an MMO are just not going to happen anymore. People are not going to obsessively play them for huge, huge amounts of time, because that is not the way market is going.
You can hear some publishers crying in the background.  crybaby icon_lol

My thing is, I really want to get back to where I'd play COH for 16 hours, or LOTRO for 8 hours, or whatever, but I just can't do it anymore. When I think about playing something that long now, I kind of feel dismayed, I turn off my PC and walk away. It'll take something different to get me to sink time into MMOs anymore, or it could be, as he says, that it's just not going to work that way anymore.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 07:50:15 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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CeeKay
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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2009, 09:20:26 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on May 24, 2009, 08:58:36 PM

And down the slippery slope we go................... nod

I'd like to point out I had nothing to do with that this time.
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« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2009, 02:00:13 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on May 25, 2009, 07:47:47 PM

This Warhammer Online interview (that's about a lot more than WO) touches on some interesting things going on in the MMO world:
http://www.mmogamer.com/05/24/2009/paul-barnett-speaks-part-two
Quote
Paul Barnett: People are not going to obsessively play them for huge, huge amounts of time, because that is not the way market is going.

I bet he is referring to the mainstream gamers. There will always be a niche of games and gamers who want those big career MMOG's. As long as that niche exists there will probably be new games being developed for it.

I am definitely a MMOG addict. I figure that even if I don't play for more than a month that I'm still getting more gaming hours out of it than I would a similarly priced single player game. Return visits are much more rewarding as well since the games are always changing.

I remember buying COD4 and finishing it in one evening. That was probably the most I've ever paid per gaming hour. It made those one-month MMOG's look like a bargain.
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« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2009, 04:04:36 PM »

Quote from: Aganazer on May 26, 2009, 02:00:13 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on May 25, 2009, 07:47:47 PM

This Warhammer Online interview (that's about a lot more than WO) touches on some interesting things going on in the MMO world:
http://www.mmogamer.com/05/24/2009/paul-barnett-speaks-part-two
Quote
Paul Barnett: People are not going to obsessively play them for huge, huge amounts of time, because that is not the way market is going.

I bet he is referring to the mainstream gamers. There will always be a niche of games and gamers who want those big career MMOG's. As long as that niche exists there will probably be new games being developed for it.

I am definitely a MMOG addict. I figure that even if I don't play for more than a month that I'm still getting more gaming hours out of it than I would a similarly priced single player game. Return visits are much more rewarding as well since the games are always changing.

I remember buying COD4 and finishing it in one evening. That was probably the most I've ever paid per gaming hour. It made those one-month MMOG's look like a bargain.

So you never played COD4 online?  I thought that was were it really shined?
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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 06:35:39 PM »

MMOs are fun to play for the first month or two because you level up fast, get cool new skills, find cool new places.  After the first month, most of them turn grindy, you're repeatedly using the same old skills/spells, you're starting to get bored of looking at same old cities/dungeons, loot upgrades are slow, etc.
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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 09:24:11 PM »

Kinda find myself in the same spot. Right now, I debate whether to play Warhammer Online (I've just started my 4th month), putting time in good olde Guild Wars (have played since launched), and I'm being dragged back to WoW by Tareeq.

I've WAR fever since I joined an active Destro guild in the Dark Crag server. The RvR in the game is loads of fun once you're in a guild and know what you're doing with your toon. I'm conflicted over WoW since I don't like all that Raiding timesink stuff the game gets into on the higher levels, but I want to play it with a friend. GW I don't worry about because it's free and can jump and play it whenever, but again, we've been playing as an active guild of late which makes the game very fun.

I don't even want to think about any upcoming MMO's. I've also been tempted in the past to go back to CoH or try out EVE Online, but these games are best played one at a time. I...need.. to... pick.... one.. and stick with it.
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2009, 11:43:59 PM »

Quote from: skystride on May 26, 2009, 06:35:39 PM

MMOs are fun to play for the first month or two because you level up fast, get cool new skills, find cool new places.  After the first month, most of them turn grindy, you're repeatedly using the same old skills/spells, you're starting to get bored of looking at same old cities/dungeons, loot upgrades are slow, etc.

QFT.  As soon as the shine wears off, I start to slow down in leveling, and it starts to feel like a grind, I quit.  It used to take several months for this to happen.  I am now officially jaded, so now it takes me a month or two.

I am teh MMO and gaming ho.

See you guys in Champions Online........ LOL 
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2009, 01:44:08 PM »

Quote from: Jafisob on May 26, 2009, 11:43:59 PM

As soon as the shine wears off, I start to slow down in leveling, and it starts to feel like a grind, I quit.  It used to take several months for this to happen.  I am now officially jaded, so now it takes me a month or two.

It will be interesting to see what it takes for the next big MMOG to hook us jaded gamers. I'm pretty sure we can be hooked on another MMOG, but there must be some magic formula required to make it happen.

I think we've just seen a few years of games being released that were more interested in a piece of the WoW pie than they were in making something to bring veterans back into the scene. Most of the innovation has only really taken place in one-trick-pony games like Tabula Rasa, DDO, and Spellborn. We have yet to see a game offer innovation in a complete package with enough polish and accessibility to please the masses.
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2009, 03:00:53 PM »

Magic formula for me is to sort of follow the Guild Wars model but expand on it.  Appeal to the alt-whores, keep people playing your game because they want to try all the classes and not because they are grinding just one toon.  More of a Diablo like loot system.  Casual player appeal, I should be able to do something fun in the game even if I only have 15 mins to play.  Quick PvP options like Guildwars/Warhammer Online Scenarios.

A more traditional MMO might be able to hook me again, but I think it has to have a huge immersive environment and none of the current-gen cartoony mmos really appeal to me.
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2009, 03:16:11 PM »

Quote from: skystride on May 26, 2009, 06:35:39 PM

MMOs are fun to play for the first month or two because you level up fast, get cool new skills, find cool new places.  After the first month, most of them turn grindy, you're repeatedly using the same old skills/spells, you're starting to get bored of looking at same old cities/dungeons, loot upgrades are slow, etc.

I think this best sums up what I've been feeling.  Age of Conan is a good example- I levelled up to 70 and hit a wall as there was almost no new content left at that point.  with WAR it wasn't much of a grind- I was part of the Wanderers and had fun at first, but didn't have the time to keep up with everyone else and soon found it harder to get a group together.  also, the lack of variety in the starting area made it unattractive to create an alt only to have to slog through the same quests over again.
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2009, 03:19:44 PM »

I was gutted when the sequel to Ultima Online was canned, because the devs had been saying all along that they were particularly focused on making it worth playing even if you're short of time.  They had planned things like being able to log in and instantly teleport to anyone on your friends list, for example.
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2009, 03:00:32 AM »

Quote from: skystride on May 27, 2009, 03:00:53 PM

Magic formula for me is to sort of follow the Guild Wars model but expand on it.  Appeal to the alt-whores, keep people playing your game because they want to try all the classes and not because they are grinding just one toon.  More of a Diablo like loot system.  Casual player appeal, I should be able to do something fun in the game even if I only have 15 mins to play.  Quick PvP options like Guildwars/Warhammer Online Scenarios.

A more traditional MMO might be able to hook me again, but I think it has to have a huge immersive environment and none of the current-gen cartoony mmos really appeal to me.
Emphasis mine.  Exactly!  Don't try to keep me playing your game by making the hamster wheel spin slowly, keep me playing your game by making the hamster wheel spin really fast and give me more wheels!  City of Heroes is the ultimate alt game.  They seemed to wise up with the architect release but then did a 180 and nerfed the exp.  I had so many alts planned.  Instead, I just canceled my sub.  I can't bring myself to login to get the final three levels to 50 on my mm.

Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 27, 2009, 03:19:44 PM

I was gutted when the sequel to Ultima Online was canned, because the devs had been saying all along that they were particularly focused on making it worth playing even if you're short of time.  They had planned things like being able to log in and instantly teleport to anyone on your friends list, for example.
Again, emphasis mine.  This seems so obvious.  I have been advocating it for years.  Quit putting barriers between people I want to group with.  Duh!(To MMO developers and not board members, unless of course they are MMO developers, in which case I mean it in the nicest possible way. ;-) )  Remember AoC?  AoC had people intentionally killing their characters to allow for fast travel across the many tedious zones, just so we could try to group with guild mates.  Duh!  (again)


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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2009, 08:46:31 AM »

aye - yet another thing that WoW does very well, by allowing it to be a class specific mechanic to summon people. I dont remember if the summoning stones work at all or was redone or something. But good points!

I love games like Sacred2, that gives me something fun to do, even if its only for 15 minutes - not many MMO's does that, AoC certainly doesnt.
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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2009, 01:08:05 PM »

Quote from: Jafisob on May 28, 2009, 03:00:32 AM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on May 27, 2009, 03:19:44 PM

I was gutted when the sequel to Ultima Online was canned, because the devs had been saying all along that they were particularly focused on making it worth playing even if you're short of time.  They had planned things like being able to log in and instantly teleport to anyone on your friends list, for example.
Again, emphasis mine.  This seems so obvious.  I have been advocating it for years.  Quit putting barriers between people I want to group with.  Duh!(To MMO developers and not board members, unless of course they are MMO developers, in which case I mean it in the nicest possible way. ;-) )  Remember AoC?  AoC had people intentionally killing their characters to allow for fast travel across the many tedious zones, just so we could try to group with guild mates.  Duh!  (again)

There have been a number of games to do this already. Hellgate London and Wizard 101 have this feature. I think Free Realms does as well. Tabula Rasa had some nice quick travel options that made it take no more than about 15 seconds to get anywhere in the world. Then again, half the examples I gave are out of business and the other half are kids games. It is strange that more games don't do this along with good exemplar and side-kick systems. It just goes to show how much more untapped potential the genre has.

Some other features that I'd like to see become standard:
-The spawning system in Tabula Rasa. MOB's don't just materialize out of thin air. Instead they crawl up out of the ground, drop from trees, fly down from the sky, jump out of drop ships, etc.

-The crafting from Fallen Earth. I know you probably haven't seen it, but I have. Its not so much that the mechanics are all that great, but the balance is just right. Crafted gear is always better than what you can buy from a vendor. You don't end up making outdated gear that is only good to sell at an auction house.

-The death penalty from Spellborn (or something similar). Getting a bit obscure here, but its a system that rewards not dying rather than punishing the player for dying.
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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2009, 05:50:20 PM »

Quote from: Aganazer on May 28, 2009, 01:08:05 PM

-The death penalty from Spellborn (or something similar). Getting a bit obscure here, but its a system that rewards not dying rather than punishing the player for dying.

Holy crap!  That was something I was vehemently advocating during WoW Alpha about... 5 or 6 years ago lol.  Finally someone did it?!? 

The thing about MMOs I simply don't understand is the whole "endgame" concept that's been religiously held to.  Every time a new MMO comes out, we talk about this or that feature, but how ultimately it comes down to how good the "endgame" is.  Well, why can't the f-ing entire game BE the endgame?  Make the game fun from the outset and don't deviate from what makes it fun.  Let the players enjoy the features and content you developed, instead of forcing them to jump through a million hoops to get there.  Why spend months building this gorgeous, challenging instance/zone, that only 1 or 2% of your playerbase ever gets to experience?  Seems like a waste of money to me.

Take WAR for instance, they did a great job giving you access to most of the gaming elements at the outset (pvp, pve, rvr, dungeoning, scenarios, quests, pq raids, etc), then slowly upped the ante and difficulty at a decent pace.  People just about universally loved it, and enjoyed the game until somewhere in the middle of T2 where everything came to a grinding halt.  Suddenly everything that made the game fun became a grinding chore of repetitiveness, access to content became gear limited, and people quit in droves.  I'd say WAR has possibly the best first 20 hours in an MMO - but why couldn't that be bottled through the whole gaming experience, or at least extended to, say, 100 hours?

Guild Wars would be my example of closest to giving the best overall MMO gaming experience in terms of all the fun content immediately accessible, allowing people to play together, quick "progress", great mix of pvp and pve, plus NPCs to fill in the gaps when needed.  Unfortunately one of the best features, the GvG aspect, became impossibly competitive unless you had a dedicated team of players.  And the pve, having been balanced for pvp, just didn't provide the kick that a true "loot and level" like Diablo does.  I'm still praying GW2 is not vapourware and delivers what was intended, giving us everything from GW but even more/better.
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« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2009, 06:58:26 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on May 29, 2009, 05:50:20 PM

Quote from: Aganazer on May 28, 2009, 01:08:05 PM

-The death penalty from Spellborn (or something similar). Getting a bit obscure here, but its a system that rewards not dying rather than punishing the player for dying.

Holy crap!  That was something I was vehemently advocating during WoW Alpha about... 5 or 6 years ago lol.  Finally someone did it?!? 


Not only that, but another soon-to-be-released game copied Spellborn's death system almost exactly. The one I'm talking about will be receiving quite a bit more exposure than Spellborn ever will, so they will likely be the ones given credit for it. They also ripped WAR's PQ system so maybe both of these features will become standard.
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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2009, 08:02:01 PM »

I'm in the same boat as the original poster. In 2008 and 2009 I played in order:
- WoW after a 3 year absence
- AoC at launch
- Vanguard over the summer
- Warhammer Online at launch
- LotrO at Mines of Moria launch
- back to WoW at Lichking launch
- AoC for a brief re-look
- EQ2 when recruit a friend hit
- Champions Online beta
- CoX when Champions Online gave me superhero MMO nostalgia
- now back to LotrO

and I haven't logged into LotrO for about a week...
Ugh.
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« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2009, 08:11:13 PM »

Quote from: Khoram on June 10, 2009, 08:02:01 PM

and I haven't logged into LotrO for about a week...
Ugh.

And why is that a bad thing? As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think we all collectively need to get out of the mindset that a MMORPG needs to be played all the time. Taking a break (even for months at a time) is healthy. LOTRO is also great at supporting this kind of playstyle (well, except for a change that's coming to housing in the next patch which means that if you go for weeks at a time without paying upkeep, you'll end up having to pay 90% of your house's value to get it back. That's a lot of gold).
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« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2009, 03:07:27 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 10, 2009, 08:11:13 PM

And why is that a bad thing? As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think we all collectively need to get out of the mindset that a MMORPG needs to be played all the time. Taking a break (even for months at a time) is healthy. LOTRO is also great at supporting this kind of playstyle (well, except for a change that's coming to housing in the next patch which means that if you go for weeks at a time without paying upkeep, you'll end up having to pay 90% of your house's value to get it back. That's a lot of gold).

The problem with this is that you are wasting money on the subscription.  It is annoying to cancel and resubscribe and not conducive to being able to jump in and out of playing.

Just thinking off the top of my head, but couldn't they have a pricing model where you pay for a month but if you don't play for over an hour on one day, that day doesn't count towards the month.  Something like that would make it much more economically feasible to play casually.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 03:10:29 PM by skystride » Logged
Isgrimnur
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2009, 05:18:38 PM »

And less economically feasible for them to continue putting up the resources for the game.

This is the old fitness club scenario re-written for geeks.  The term I'm sure they use for us is "profit." 

I don't think we'll ever see a pay-per-use MMO.
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« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2009, 09:17:35 PM »

Well, apparently in Asia paying by the hour for MMORPGs is very common.  Who knows, maybe it'll rear its head in the west at some point.
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« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2009, 09:19:06 PM »

What's the going odds on PPU MMORPGs vs. a change to the wireless contract structure in the U.S.?
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« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2009, 12:26:58 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 10, 2009, 08:11:13 PM

LOTRO is also great at supporting this kind of playstyle (well, except for a change that's coming to housing in the next patch which means that if you go for weeks at a time without paying upkeep, you'll end up having to pay 90% of your house's value to get it back. That's a lot of gold).

Ouch. Of course, it could be worse - DAoC (AFAIK) and Vanguard (I know this for fact) both outright nuke your house (and the plot your house goes on) if you don't pay for it. That can be a serious amount of cash.
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« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2009, 04:01:19 PM »

The most fun I had with housing in a MMO was Star Wars Galaxies. I don't know why(because normally that side feature in games doesn't interest me)but I had a blast collecting trophies and what not, and doing the place up right. I actually get a bit nostalgic over Galaxies. I really enjoyed it when it first came out.
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« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2009, 06:24:21 PM »

I love the housing in EQ2. Also like the money side of it. You only need to pay a weeks upkeep to get access back.

The large house i have has a church in the basement as well as a graveyard. This is on my Druid.

I also have a full wal of trophies from the heritage quests and master spells as well as a small library etc. I remember spending weeks getting that set up.

All i need is a theme for the top floor.
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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2009, 03:47:05 PM »

I canceled COH again. As much fun as the Architect was, the basic gameplay I was still pretty well burned out on.

So now I'm MMO-FREE! Well, I did do that LOTRO lifetime thing, but haven't played it in months. Such is the danger of lifetime anything.  icon_razz
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« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2009, 05:07:27 PM »

The LOTRO demo did nothing for me.  And after an ill-advised one-month sub, I dropped EVE as well.  If skill training is automatic, all I need to do is log in and update my skill queue until I'm as nifty as I want to be.  While it sounds good in theory, there's no point to actually play for the first few months once you can afford the skill books that you want...

When's Champions due out again?
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