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Zimix
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« on: April 15, 2007, 08:04:29 PM »

Anyone still playing Vanguard?
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StitchJones
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 09:27:04 PM »

I quit for the pure fact that i could not find a group to save my life.  Standing around trying to do solo quest gets old.  I was also in two guilds that folded because too many people were leaving the game.  I've moved on to LOTRO now, but I wouldn't hesitate to go back once the issues get fixed and they consolidate the servers.
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siege
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 09:45:01 PM »

Same reason I quit. As early as level 8, there are quests you need a group or at least a partner for and it's near impossible to find one. The game is great outside the fact nobody is playing it though.
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2007, 10:07:57 PM »

I was actually just thinking the other day that I was curious if this game was even still alive
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2007, 10:28:08 PM »

I quit due to the game just not being done yet, among other things. Yeah, the game looked great, and it was kinda fun, but the game was too group required and it just felt... I don't know... Like it was just too old-school. Like trying to play EQ1 nowadays or something.
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2007, 11:24:05 PM »

I quit after the first month for all the reasons given above, plus the fact that I just don't have the time to dedicate that it would need.

Vanguard has tons of potential, I love a lot of things about the game, but it's just not a fit for me right now.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2007, 11:24:24 AM »

The latest "Games for Windows" magazine review just stomped it... 3/10. 
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Calvin
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2007, 12:01:31 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on April 17, 2007, 11:24:24 AM

The latest "Games for Windows" magazine review just stomped it... 3/10. 
Wow,  snap-uh. I didn't like the beta at all, but 3/10? Good god.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 12:43:04 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on April 17, 2007, 12:01:31 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 17, 2007, 11:24:24 AM

The latest "Games for Windows" magazine review just stomped it... 3/10. 
Wow,  snap-uh. I didn't like the beta at all, but 3/10? Good god.

Remember, most gaming mags won't count patches in any review.  So given the huge number of bugs and performance problems on release with Vanguard, that's probably about right.
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 01:37:56 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on April 17, 2007, 12:01:31 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 17, 2007, 11:24:24 AM

The latest "Games for Windows" magazine review just stomped it... 3/10. 
Wow,  snap-uh. I didn't like the beta at all, but 3/10? Good god.

This block of text from the review summarizes the game very well IMHO (and as to why I didn't like it):

Quote from: Games for Windows
It's easy to think of vanguard as what EQ might've been if it were made today. It's stuck in time, in a way that might be comfortable for some, but just plain aggravating for others. Its quests retain the same structure...and the game world, races, and mythology are almost indistinguishable from EQ's paint-by-numbers high fantasy. Hell, even the names over characters' heads appear in the same font.

Gee - that somewhat matches what I said a few posts up. biggrin
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2007, 05:40:21 PM »

Yeah, I could see how due to the bugs at launch the game could get 3/10.  I think the game is improving over time, but not quite at the rate I'd like.  And, sadly, the servers seem to be getting emptier and emptier.  It's sad because the game had a lot of promise.  But it just doesn't stack up well against a much more polished game like LOTRO.  The performance issues may never be ironed out because the design and coding was rather poor, in my opinion.  Then when you all the basic bugs regarding abilities not being applied correctly, quest bugs, etc., it's not hard to see why it would get a good review.

However, I do think it has a chance to come back strong IF they get things fixed and add in flying mounts that actually WORK.  Little things like that are good advertising points to get people back into the game, but the performance better have improved. 

At the moment I am still playing both Vanguard and LOTRO casually.  I kind of miss in LOTRO the variety of classes that Vanguard has, and especially the fact that no spellcasting classes are present in the LOTRO world.  So, I kind of bounce back and forth.
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olaf
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2007, 05:51:50 PM »

MMO publishers better wise up.  In the age of WoW you cant charge people for unfinished shit.  If your game is less polished than WoW was at release, you are going to fail.
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2007, 11:22:34 PM »

I liked Vanguard but ended up quitting because of the performance of the game.  Whenever I hit town or had more than a handful of characters on the screen the FPS would drop like a rock.  It played pretty well at first but it seemed to degrade with each patch.  IMHO MMO's should not try to push the graphical envelope so hard, simply because you have too many characters to draw on the screen at once.  WoW did it right by making a game that could run on older computers and having a great artistic style. 
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2007, 08:47:21 PM »

I think it was mistake for them to make Group-intensive MMORPG. You just can't beat the WOW and only way you can survive is being different such as single player friendly or totally different genre. Making game similar to Everquest or WOW and gearing for hardcore instead newbie is big mistake.

There are still a great deal of people who wants to play MMORPG but does not want to group with strangers. They want single player RPG feel on MMORPG, I guess Guild Wars comes close.
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Jaddison
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2007, 06:32:57 PM »

Actually i don't think the issue is so much the grouping as finding people to group with.  The main issue I see with games like Horizons, Vanguard and even EQ2 when it first came out is that they push the envelope graphics wise or have such poor coding that performance for a majority of players suffers.  Couple this with the envy that comes with having graphical settings you can't run or try to run but shouldn't and you have some frustrated gamers who are thinking more about what they aren't seeing than the game play they are experiencing.

Vanguard has some great and novel ideas but it is such a pain in the butt to play with all the slowdowns and lag.  So much so that it keeps me from logging in much of the time as I would rather play the game than fight the lag and slow downs.

This is I believe the why WoW got so popular so fast.  Yes we had lag and issues (who can forget the Ironforge slideshow) at launch but the pull of the WoW universe and Blizzards push to fix the issues resulted in aplay experience where I have maxed out the graphics settings with just a medium performance computer.  Their approach to graphics and performance allow most people to play with close to maxed out graphics and little to no lag.  This means more people playing the game than fighting the game engine.

With Vanguard fighting the game engine has to mean fewer people willing to stick it out...means lower player population....fewer players to group with...and perhaps more importantly less revenue with which to tackle performance improvements.  Perhaps this is the MMO death spiral.  Horizons had some of the most unique gameplay elements I can remember but performance drove so many people away when they started doing the world events that the game withered.

I see the LOTRO is following in the WoW graphics approach which means it may actually be able to sustain a solid player base that is drawn from people wanting to play in the LOTR world, that are tired of WoW and want something that at least has the appearance of newness.  This may give them the revenue to actually fix and improve and expand.

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Blackadar
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2007, 06:50:10 PM »

Well, on that note...

We all saw the statements that Vanguard was launched before it was ready due to money.  WoW had some problems (servers crashing at launch, Lagforge, etc.), but not nearly the quanity or severity of the bugs from Vanguard.  But you're right, it doesn't push hardware.  What's really maddening is that some of the performance problems are only with certain starter areas!  Vanguard has/had potential, but it's going to be unrealized as players have left the game in droves. 

EQ2 is a beautiful game, but it still pushes newer machines two years after launch.  It also had the misfortune of going head-to-head with WoW.  I think if it launched now, instead of two years ago, it would actually do quite well.  It'd find its niche, with WoW players wanting to move up to something a bit more complex and entertaining.  I think EQ2's biggest downfall is simply release timing.  Too bad...I think it's easily one of the best MMOs out there now (along with WoW and EVE).

I think LOTRO falls somewhere in the middle.  It pushes hardware more than WoW, but less than most.  It's very polished already.  It's hitting the open market at a good time, when a lot of people are looking for a new MMO.  And it has a familar license and gameworld, which will draw 1st time MMO players in.  I can't comment on the long term gameplay since I'm only at level 15, but there's a lot to draw on and so much still to be released, it has the potential to endure for quite some time.  I want to visit the Lonely Mountain in the worst way...
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The_Man
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2007, 04:26:22 PM »

forced grouping ftl.
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kronovan
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 05:35:34 PM »

I played the trial but didn't continue because, as a number of posters have already said, the game was released before it was ready. The game lacked proper optimization in a number of key areas, which really diminished it's playability. I found it amazing that the lead designer at Sigil admitted as much publicly in an interview and in a very cocky way at that.

I think the game has a lot to offer and will eventually be well worth playing; great to play a game that has a kick ass healer / caster class re. the Disciple! My concern however is that the game world is so big that by the time it's really ready for the masses, there won't be enough players to give it a decent sized population.

I've found that you have to be patient with ambitious MMORPG's like this and consider returning to them at a future date. Playing the trial got me hungry for a new MMORPG, which eventually led to me to trying Dungeons & Dragons Online once again.  I played DDO about a year ago shortly after it's release and lasted only about a month before giving up. I've now been playing for about 2 months and the difference between the current game and that of a year ago is night and day. The game has improved significantly in almost every area and I'm enjoying it very much now. I think the same will be true for Vanguard, give it a year and it will most likely be a much better experience.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2007, 02:30:48 PM »

And the latest news on the train wreck that is Vanguard:

http://vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102628138/p1/?38

(Brad's post is about halfway down from "gervaise1", a long, rambling post)

But to summarize:

- Sigil is counting on SOE to bail them out of this situation.  Since we all know that Sigil was forced to make a deal with SOE or go out of business, I wonder if some poison pill clause in that deal (perhaps based on subscriptions) has forfeitted Sigil over to Sony entirely.
- They know the game is a buggy mess and expect it to be a buggy mess until 2008
- They expect that somehow in 2008 that all the stars will align and that Vanguard will be "re-launched", possibly with an expansion, that will fix most of the major content/gameplay issues. 
-  He goes on to talk about the hardware requirements.  I find this part of the post the most amusing/most annoying, because what he's saying is really their game engine sucks donkey dick and that only state-of-the-art hardware with an optimized Vista, DX10 OS is going to be able to run this in an acceptable manner.  At the very least, this should shut up the fanboys who respond to Vanguard performance complaints with "I run Vanguard with a processor powered by a hamster wheel and a solar-powered 4" black-and-white TV and it runs fine for me, so the problem must be your system".
- When they re-launch, they expect that everyone will be tired of WoW and everyone will have purchased new PCs and then Vanguard will be in prime pouncing position. retard  Of course, they neglect to mention any competitor but LOTRO, failing to mention that there should be massively increased competition in 2008 with Conan and Warhammer.  In addition, I think we all saw what happened when they "relaunched" Star Wars Online.

Wow...just wow.  Too bad...but what a disaster.  Imagine what would have happened if they could have funded the beta for 6 more months and launched in July/August, with a more stable and robust gameworld, with many of the rough edges smoothed over.  Of course, Brad's comments about system performance leads me to be believe that it may have not mattered at all and the game was doomed from the start.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 02:34:00 PM by Blackadar » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2007, 03:04:31 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on April 30, 2007, 02:30:48 PM

- They know the game is a buggy mess and expect it to be a buggy mess until 2008
- They expect that somehow in 2008 that all the stars will align and that Vanguard will be "re-launched", possibly with an expansion, that will fix most of the major content/gameplay issues. 

Holy shit is this game doomed. And it was doomed from the start.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2007, 03:35:41 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on April 30, 2007, 03:04:31 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 30, 2007, 02:30:48 PM

- They know the game is a buggy mess and expect it to be a buggy mess until 2008
- They expect that somehow in 2008 that all the stars will align and that Vanguard will be "re-launched", possibly with an expansion, that will fix most of the major content/gameplay issues. 

Holy shit is this game doomed. And it was doomed from the start.

I guess what's sad to me is that I followed Vanguard for almost 2 years with high hopes.  I wanted something that was a little more group oriented than the solo-to-60 WoW model.  I wanted something that was a bit more hardcore than WoW.  And I wanted a universe that was unique, fleshed-out and fun.  For a while, Vanguard was looking like that game.  I was around to apply to the closed beta over a year ago (wasn't selected).

There were some concerns early-in that they were going too hardcore (especially in crafting) but there were a lot of encouraging signs as well.  Then the closed beta folks started leaking out the problems with the bugs, engine and overall dull gameplay.  I gave up hoping on Vanguard when I saw virtually every beta player said the game wasn't ready for launch when the launch date was announced.  Complaints are common during beta, but when your biggest fanboys are saying that the game is woefully short of being launch-ready, then you know it's a major problem.  So on a personal note, I'm glad I saved my money...but there's that part of me that's sad too.
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« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2007, 04:19:11 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on April 30, 2007, 03:35:41 PM

Quote from: Destructor on April 30, 2007, 03:04:31 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 30, 2007, 02:30:48 PM

- They know the game is a buggy mess and expect it to be a buggy mess until 2008
- They expect that somehow in 2008 that all the stars will align and that Vanguard will be "re-launched", possibly with an expansion, that will fix most of the major content/gameplay issues. 

Holy shit is this game doomed. And it was doomed from the start.

I guess what's sad to me is that I followed Vanguard for almost 2 years with high hopes.  I wanted something that was a little more group oriented than the solo-to-60 WoW model.  I wanted something that was a bit more hardcore than WoW.  And I wanted a universe that was unique, fleshed-out and fun.  For a while, Vanguard was looking like that game.  I was around to apply to the closed beta over a year ago (wasn't selected).

There were some concerns early-in that they were going too hardcore (especially in crafting) but there were a lot of encouraging signs as well.  Then the closed beta folks started leaking out the problems with the bugs, engine and overall dull gameplay.  I gave up hoping on Vanguard when I saw virtually every beta player said the game wasn't ready for launch when the launch date was announced.  Complaints are common during beta, but when your biggest fanboys are saying that the game is woefully short of being launch-ready, then you know it's a major problem.  So on a personal note, I'm glad I saved my money...but there's that part of me that's sad too.




I am glad that you are all into hardcore and grouping. As for me I am more of solo player with sometime grouping and I do not want game that does not require to play everyday, everyhour..
And I believe in order for newer games to get big, they have to stay away from just Hardcore gamers and carter toward to causal and newer gamer.
If you are already Hardcore player, then you are already playing something, WOW, Everquest 2, etc. It will be easier for developers to suck in newer players than convert the one alreday playing other games.
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« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2007, 04:38:14 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on April 30, 2007, 03:35:41 PM

I guess what's sad to me is that I followed Vanguard for almost 2 years with high hopes.  I wanted something that was a little more group oriented than the solo-to-60 WoW model.  I wanted something that was a bit more hardcore than WoW.  And I wanted a universe that was unique, fleshed-out and fun.  For a while, Vanguard was looking like that game.  I was around to apply to the closed beta over a year ago (wasn't selected).

Have 3 friends who are our gamer group's more hardcore MMO players. They would always talk about Vanguard and it hopefully being their next big game. To keep it short, none of them are playing it.
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« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2007, 05:32:03 PM »

Quote from: Jumangi on May 01, 2007, 04:38:14 PM

Have 3 friends who are our gamer group's more hardcore MMO players. They would always talk about Vanguard and it hopefully being their next big game. To keep it short, none of them are playing it.

Yeah, my friends and I (3 total) were talking about Vanguard rather positively before it came out too. And we've played just about all the MMOs out there (CoX, EQ2, DAoC, WoW), and we canned the game during it's 'free' month.
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