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Author Topic: The next major MMO  (Read 1388 times)
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skystride
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« on: January 02, 2013, 08:56:49 PM »

What is it?  I'm a bit stumped.  The only thing I can think of is the next Everquest but there is very little information and no release date.
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TiLT
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 09:11:57 PM »

I think you're going to be disappointed. The MMO genre as we know it is more or less dead. Big games like The Old Republic put the final nail in the coffin. Expect to see more hybrid MMOs (ie. persistent world, but autonomous clients that allow players to play both offline and online, or set up private servers), and of those there are several under development. The first two that come to mind are Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous, both crowd-funded.
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Teggy
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 09:24:40 PM »

Titan?
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 09:41:22 PM »

Isn't there an Elder Scrolls MMO coming out soon-ish?
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2013, 09:50:33 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on January 02, 2013, 09:41:22 PM

Isn't there an Elder Scrolls MMO coming out soon-ish?

Yeah, and it will be a colossal failure. The press coverage and word of mouth hasn't exactly been positive, and the developers seem to be far, far too focused on recreating Dark Age of Camelot again. It's not going to end well, mark my words. Even Free To Play won't save that game.
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2013, 09:51:11 PM »

THE WAR Z!  biggrin

honestly, I'd have to say Elder Scrolls Online.
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2013, 11:56:12 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on January 02, 2013, 09:24:40 PM

Titan?

Yeah, if anything has a chance of be the next great thing (that we at least know about) this may be it.  I think it will have to be a drastic departure from WoW and the model that most people have grown sick of.
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Razgon
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 08:40:30 AM »

The Elder Scrolls Online has awesome writing already

Quote
The population of the proud feline Khajiit has dwindled in recent years following a devastating outbreak of Knahaten Flu.

sigh...

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/alliances/aldmeri-dominion
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 12:11:04 PM »

I'm actually with Tilt on this one.  I'm not investing into another subscription bases MMO.  Unless it's built from the ground up as f2p then I am not interested.  I'll gladly pay for the client, but no more subs
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 02:59:52 PM »

I don't think we will see another HUGE one until Blizzard releases whatever they are working on (Titan I know). And I think that is a long way off since details are so limited about it.
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skystride
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 04:07:13 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 02, 2013, 09:50:33 PM

Quote from: Gratch on January 02, 2013, 09:41:22 PM

Isn't there an Elder Scrolls MMO coming out soon-ish?

Yeah, and it will be a colossal failure. The press coverage and word of mouth hasn't exactly been positive, and the developers seem to be far, far too focused on recreating Dark Age of Camelot again. It's not going to end well, mark my words. Even Free To Play won't save that game.

ooh, it's going to be like DAOC?  That gets me interested.  I should look into this one.
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skystride
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 04:19:52 PM »

I'm interested in a MMO that goes back to the roots and has heavy focus on grouping.  Make soloing next to impossible but make grouping easy.  Include level scaling both ways so people don't feel left behind.  I'm tired of every single MMO having easy soloing.  It just removes any sort of danger from the world since 90% of the content is soloable. 

I think Vanguard had a pretty good balance.  There were lots of interesting areas to explore but it was pretty difficult and sometimes impossible to do solo for many classes.  Sure you could solo to max in VG but then you miss out on a lot of cool group areas.  It seems modern MMOs make solo content the focus and throw in some group stuff.  I'd like to see it be the other way round.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 04:36:19 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on January 03, 2013, 08:40:30 AM

The Elder Scrolls Online has awesome writing already

Quote
The population of the proud feline Khajiit has dwindled in recent years following a devastating outbreak of Knahaten Flu.

sigh...

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/alliances/aldmeri-dominion
Not the Knahaten Flu dammit.  Is that pronounced "Na-haten" or "Ka-haten" or "K-na-haten"?
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Blackjack
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 05:33:03 PM »

For a look back on 2012 in MMOs, check out this infographic (pointed out by PC Gamer online):

The Global MMO Market; Sizing and Seizing Opportunities
http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/the-global-mmo-market-sizing-and-seizing-opportunities/

Speaking of PC Gamer, they did a pretty exhaustive preview (albeit, some are super short mentions) of 2013 PC games here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/01/2013-preview/

The 2013 MMOs preview portion is here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/01/2013-preview/5/

imho, the days of major studios spending millions upon millions on an MMO are over. It's pretty clear the WoW model (in today's economy anyway) is Fool's Gold. Nearly every major MMO (some holdouts such as WoW and Rift remain non F2P) has gone F2P, sometimes thriving, sometimes just simply surviving.

Myself, I've just stopped playing them. If you'd told me a few years ago that LOTRO, AoC, Champions, STO and SWTOR would all be F2P, and yet, I just wouldn't care or that when I tried to get back into those games they just don't hook me anymore, I would've laughed. At least for me, the sad thing is, by the time each of those games went F2P, I and most of the pals I had enjoyed playing those MMOs with simply didn't care anymore.

I still miss stuff like Tabula Rasa, and I wish City of Heroes had found a 2nd life with another publisher.

Still I'm interested in what's on top for 2013 and am eager to learn more. The games on PC Gamer's list, for the most part I don't know much about and it'll be interesting to see which - if any - live up to the hype.  icon_smile

As far as predictions? I'd predict Elder Scrolls Online because it's not trying too hard to be different in terms of setting (fantasy etc.), it's a well known IP many gamers love, and the team seems to have enough Mythic veterans to not get in over its head on the technical "launch and run a huge MMO successfully" side of things.

I love isometric stuff, so Shadowrun Online's definitely on my radar screen (http://www.shadowrun.com/shadowrun-online/) though I can't really see it as "the next major MMO."  icon_smile
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 05:39:10 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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TiLT
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 05:51:29 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on January 03, 2013, 05:33:03 PM

As far as predictions? I'd predict Elder Scrolls Online because it's not trying too hard to be different in terms of setting (fantasy etc.), it's a well known IP many gamers love

See, the problem with that is that people love The Elder Scrolls for its sprawling freedom, massive amount of content and game mechanics. Ask a bunch of random people what their favorite part of Skyrim was, and you'll have a bunch of random people answering anything but "the setting". Yet the one thing the MMO retains is the setting, while it ditches everything that people care about from the games. The Elder Scrolls world is incredibly dull and incredibly generic. It's not a good fantasy setting, but it has been blessed with awesome games.

When those gamers that love the IP try The Elder Scrolls Online, they'll be sorely disappointed when they realize it's nothing like the games they are fans of.
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skystride
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 06:06:58 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on January 03, 2013, 05:33:03 PM

The 2013 MMOs preview portion is here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/01/2013-preview/5/

Just took a look at that list.

I'm interested in Elder Scrolls if it's being developed by ex-Warhammer/DAOC  folks. I really enjoyed WAR even though it ultimately failed.  They brought a lot of cool ideas to the table like open groups, public quests, fun instanced scenarios etc.

I'm also interested in Everquest.  EQ2 turned out to be really good eventually after a few patches/expansions.  The content and variety in EQ2 is pretty much unparalleled.  I also love EQ lore since I started playing MMOs with EQ1.

I might be interested in the Blizzard MMO even though I hate WoW.  There is just too little information right now.

And I guess there might be a few surprises from that list that we will have to wait and see.
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rittchard
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 06:09:05 PM »

I have a feeling it's going to be a big flop, but I'm curious about the new one from Trion (Defiance) that's tied into the TV series on SyFy

http://defiance.com/en/game/

I suspect both the show and game will fail in the first season, but here's hoping for something good/different  Tongue
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 07:45:20 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on January 03, 2013, 05:33:03 PM

Myself, I've just stopped playing them. If you'd told me a few years ago that LOTRO, AoC, Champions, STO and SWTOR would all be F2P, and yet, I just wouldn't care or that when I tried to get back into those games they just don't hook me anymore, I would've laughed. At least for me, the sad thing is, by the time each of those games went F2P, I and most of the pals I had enjoyed playing those MMOs with simply didn't care anymore.
Most mmos aren't a lot of fun if you strip them down to the core gameplay features and mechanics, especially when compared to fully featured single and multiplayer games that aren't built around the traditional mmorpg ruleset of tank-healer-dps aggro management.  The better mmos I've played mask the mmorpg grind and ruleset with good evironments and storytelling, but it's still under the hood making it all go.  GW2 and The Secret World are recent examples of mmorpgs that are trying to break away to some extent from the traditional mmo combat system, but there still seem to be a lot of people that want to tank-heal-dps grind their way through content. 

When I subscribe to a game, I feel compelled to play in order to justify the money spent.  With the buy-the-box play-for-free model I'm seeing that with the financial pressure off to play, I start judging the game as I would any of my other backlog SP/MP games.  If it's good, I'll play it (GW2).       
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skystride
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 09:24:04 PM »

Good class design can make holy trinity gameplay a lot of fun.  Like for example the Warrior Priest in WAR.  You have to be in melee to power your heals.  Somewhat similar to the Disciple in Vanguard who is a monk that has to perform melee combos to heal.  Another option is to have a more arcady approach like Tera.  It seems that is what Elder Scrolls is going for.

While I thought GW2 combat system is pretty brilliant on paper, I didn't think group dynamics were that much better in dungeons in practice.  I've had more fun with the holy trinity system.  I missed the complexity of builds from GW1, something was lost in the dumbing down/simplification of skills.  Trait system was pretty cool but in the end you are still limited to the relatively small number of weapon skills.
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 09:25:33 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on January 03, 2013, 05:33:03 PM

The 2013 MMOs preview portion is here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/01/2013-preview/5/

Interesting that they left the complete reboot of Final Fantasy XIV off that list.  While the original launch was an unmitigated disaster (for a lot of reasons), I still think that there some fun core gameplay elements to be found there.  Unfortunately, they buried it underneath layers and layers of completely unnecessary complexity.  I've been reading some encouraging things about this reboot and am actually looking forward to giving it another look
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2013, 03:38:02 AM »

I forgot about Survarium, which could be different enough from standard MMOs to make me take a look.
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« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2013, 05:20:59 AM »

Quote from: skystride on January 03, 2013, 09:24:04 PM

While I thought GW2 combat system is pretty brilliant on paper, I didn't think group dynamics were that much better in dungeons in practice.  I've had more fun with the holy trinity system.  I missed the complexity of builds from GW1, something was lost in the dumbing down/simplification of skills.  Trait system was pretty cool but in the end you are still limited to the relatively small number of weapon skills.

GW2's problem isn't/wasn't the combat system IMO, it's more the lack of coherency and focus in the game content.  By ambitiously trying to be all things to all players, they ended up watering down every element and losing touch with each element, and in some ways allowed each element to hold the other back.  I honestly think they would have had a stronger game, actually stronger THREE games had they split it all up.  Game 1 would be a single player story-focused adventure set in the MMORPG world/lore.  Game 2 would be a dynamic content MMORPG that mixed world PvP with dynamic PvE.  Game 3 would be a competitive PvP game like League of Legends.  All 3 games could use the same basic combat engine but they wouldn't necessarily have to cater to each other or use the exact same items and skills and whatnot.  This way you allow the PvE game to go crazy wild with loot and lore, the MMORPG will always be focused on groups and group combat in a dynamic environment, and the eSports mode can be focused and balanced properly.
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Alefroth
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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2013, 06:56:54 AM »

I think ArcheAge will be one of the bigger ones.

Ale
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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2013, 03:18:56 PM »

Frankly, I think the problem is the very same subject of this thread: Always looking for the next 'big thing' and not appreciating what we have available to play right now.

Guild Wars 2
EVE Online
Rift
The Secret World
LOTR Online
World Of Warcraft

All very decent games that could use more love from MMO players. You burn thru content in less than 2 months and now are looking for something new. You're worse than serial monogamists. Gamers are their own worse enemies; in my observation.
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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2013, 06:57:01 PM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on January 31, 2013, 03:18:56 PM

Frankly, I think the problem is the very same subject of this thread: Always looking for the next 'big thing' and not appreciating what we have available to play right now.

Guild Wars 2
EVE Online
Rift
The Secret World
LOTR Online
World Of Warcraft

All very decent games that could use more love from MMO players. You burn thru content in less than 2 months and now are looking for something new. You're worse than serial monogamists. Gamers are their own worse enemies; in my observation.

Why no love for EQ2?

I don't think the thread is about moving on to the next big thing, just curiosity over what it will be.

Ale
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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2013, 07:56:56 PM »

Quote from: Alefroth on January 31, 2013, 06:57:01 PM

Quote from: PR_GMR on January 31, 2013, 03:18:56 PM

Frankly, I think the problem is the very same subject of this thread: Always looking for the next 'big thing' and not appreciating what we have available to play right now.

Guild Wars 2
EVE Online
Rift
The Secret World
LOTR Online
World Of Warcraft

All very decent games that could use more love from MMO players. You burn thru content in less than 2 months and now are looking for something new. You're worse than serial monogamists. Gamers are their own worse enemies; in my observation.

Why no love for EQ2?

I don't think the thread is about moving on to the next big thing, just curiosity over what it will be.

Ale

EQ2 I never played, so can't comment on it. But, to answer the thread title, 'Titan' might be the only great, next big thing out there. Blizzard rarely dissapoints. They keep something in the oven long enough to make it exciting.

'Defiance'? Look, it's tied to a Syfy series--It's gonna blow chunks!  nod
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skystride
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« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2013, 08:20:14 PM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on January 31, 2013, 07:56:56 PM

Blizzard rarely dissapoints.

If by rarely you mean frequently, then I agree with you sir!

Gone is the Blizzard of old that could never do wrong.
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 01:33:40 AM »

I did play EQ2 a couple years ago and actually really enjoyed it.  I hadn't played when it first came out so it was likely expanded, updated, fixed, etc a lot before I tried it, but all the better in my opinion.  smile
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2013, 12:55:45 PM »

Like most "firsts" in our life, you never ever really get that feeling again. DAoC was my first. I stumbled upon it and up till then had only used Flight Sims on the PC.
But most certainly I've had some really fun experiences since then in MMO's. I remember when we started using, MMO instead of MMORPG. I think that says alot to the decline of the genre for me.
It became a generic formula. If you have A,B, and C in the game it will be succesful. No need for creative thinking in the sense of innovative, new ideas. Just go with the tried and true.
I do agree we're at the end of an era of subscription based MMO's. I don't know if I like this more or less than the 15 bucks a month model.

What I do know is I don't spend hours online searching out every little bit of info I can find about every MMO out there.
But boy would I be there with bells on if some talented developer's got together and made a MMO out of love, rather than for gold. Indie games at its best.

So, I'll just drive my Volvo across Italy(if they can make a fun trucking game, why not a MMO), remembering a time when MMORPG's were king of the road.
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2013, 02:16:26 AM »

Yeah I think ARcheAge is the next big one. I think as with this one we will now see many more of the big MMO's possibly coming from the far east, after all that is where the vast majority of MMO players are.  Lets remember Wow has 10 million subscribers with almost 90% or so coming from OUTSIDE the US.
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skystride
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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2013, 01:39:48 AM »

Here's another MMO that looks pretty cool: Black Desert
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