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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced  (Read 131548 times)
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Blackjack
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« Reply #3000 on: May 22, 2012, 10:40:16 PM »

DOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!  paranoid

Actually, even speaking as someone who went from SWTOR fanboy to "I don't wanna play anymore" in record time, lets keep in mind that the dev team you need to create an engine from scratch and build a giant, shambling, fully voice acted behemoth is NOT the same size dev team you need to create piecemeal updates moving forward.

Similar things happened with the dev teams for Warhammer Online, Champions, Age of Conan, LOTRO, etc. etc. etc. Unless you're working on something critical to mmorpg content updates, you're probably never "safe" working on a big mmorpg once it launches.

I do go back to all those discussions, arguments, debates we had about SWTOR years ago. imho, it boils down to "does innovation retain subscribers better in the long run or does it just scare off the masses?"; or are you better off delivering dressed up "comfort food" that sticks with "tried and proven" and doesn't try to bring something fresh to the gameplay and questing experience. SWTOR went with the latter, for the most part, and I guess time will tell if it was the right decision.

I think I'm out of mmorpgs at this point. I'm not running into the kinds of friendly players I did 5-8 years ago. I run into a lot of anger mangement types, control freaks, and people with no sense of humor or humbleness or just plain old fun. Oh and people who want to team for one quest and then run away like you have the cooties. Who needs any of it? I seem to run into better people just playing various games in co-op and I guess that's what I oughta focus on now, gaming wise.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 10:43:39 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #3001 on: May 23, 2012, 07:18:32 AM »

Yeah, its just not what the execs said even back last year

Quote
James Ohlen in Gamasutra, December 20th, 2011:

Current projections, he says, show enough success that BioWare is investing in the future and keeping the entire team of hundreds of people together.

"Unlike a lot of other game companies that, once they launch a game, downsize their teams radically, our plan is to keep the team together and continue to focus on building content

Sad thing is, EA has now clearly stated that SWTOR is no longer in their top5, so of course downsizing will occur.
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« Reply #3002 on: May 24, 2012, 11:04:17 PM »

I'm still playing the game, but the dropping server populations have kind of been killing my enthusiasm.  The good news is that the developers are talking about making "Mega-servers" which should help.

MMORPG companies should abandon the separate server model at this point.  With the speed with which people power-game through these things and move on to the next game, it is no longer possible.  Instancing (where you can switch instances to group with friends) seems like the better model at this point, even if it may have a negative impact on immersion.
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« Reply #3003 on: May 25, 2012, 05:36:39 AM »

Quote from: Fez on May 24, 2012, 11:04:17 PM

MMORPG companies should abandon the separate server model at this point.  With the speed with which people power-game through these things and move on to the next game, it is no longer possible.  Instancing (where you can switch instances to group with friends) seems like the better model at this point, even if it may have a negative impact on immersion.

I totally, utterly, and completely agree.

What they need to do is rip off how Champions/Star Trek Online do things - it's all on one instanced server, and everyone is CharacterName@AccountName. So you don't have to worry about getting the name you want. You can have it. Just realize there may be more than one of you standing around (but unless you use a very common name, it's quite unlikely).

Anyway - one server (heavily instanced) for the win.
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« Reply #3004 on: May 25, 2012, 11:28:34 PM »

Why do they keep the price so high so long on a subsciption-based game? $40 isn't terrible now, but it's not great either...
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« Reply #3005 on: May 26, 2012, 03:20:52 PM »

Quote
ets keep in mind that the dev team you need to create an engine from scratch
actually they didnt, they used the hero engine
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« Reply #3006 on: May 26, 2012, 05:53:05 PM »

Quote from: Azhag on May 25, 2012, 11:28:34 PM

Why do they keep the price so high so long on a subsciption-based game? $40 isn't terrible now, but it's not great either...

They had a half price sale some time ago... a couple-few weeks. As things are going now, however, I would expect the price to be coming down drastically very soon.
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« Reply #3007 on: May 26, 2012, 09:10:24 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on May 26, 2012, 03:20:52 PM

Quote
ets keep in mind that the dev team you need to create an engine from scratch
actually they didnt, they used the hero engine

Why they should've done that - the Hero Engine blows.
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« Reply #3008 on: May 29, 2012, 03:21:54 AM »

Well, looks like I'm picking it up from monkeyfinger... so I too can live through the transition from fanboy to dissapointment :-P. Any class I should definitely stay away from? (I'll likely solo a lot of it where I can...)
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« Reply #3009 on: May 29, 2012, 03:33:45 AM »

Quote from: Azhag on May 29, 2012, 03:21:54 AM

Well, looks like I'm picking it up from monkeyfinger... so I too can live through the transition from fanboy to dissapointment :-P. Any class I should definitely stay away from? (I'll likely solo a lot of it where I can...)

The Jedi Councilar story is probably considered one of the weakest.  I think probably the Imperial Agent is considered the best story-wise.  A lot of people prefer playing Imperial, as they think those stories are better.  Those people might be evil though  ninja

I finished the Jedi Knight story and liked it quite a bit.
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« Reply #3010 on: May 29, 2012, 02:38:04 PM »

Quote from: Azhag on May 29, 2012, 03:21:54 AM

(I'll likely solo a lot of it where I can...)

You'll have no choice in that.
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« Reply #3011 on: May 29, 2012, 09:20:59 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on May 29, 2012, 02:38:04 PM

Quote from: Azhag on May 29, 2012, 03:21:54 AM

(I'll likely solo a lot of it where I can...)

You'll have no choice in that.

Yep, until they start merging servers or allowing transfers, the low pop servers are dead.  Make sure you create your toon on a populated server--it makes the game much more entertaining.
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« Reply #3012 on: May 29, 2012, 10:19:09 PM »

Ill chime in and say that the Imperial Agent story line was great! 
While I can understand a lot of the disappointment people have had in the game, its unfortunate, because if you play the game for what it is, its quite fun and theres certainly a lot of bang for your buck game wise.  I dont play a whole lot any more, like a lot of early adopters but I had fun while I played and got a lot of game out of my money.
  WoW was in the right place at the right time and I doubt any game will catch that lightning in a bottle any time soon.  At least not until virtual reality games become economically feasible for mass market.  For now theres not a whole lot that can be done with MMOs that 1) hasnt been done before and 2) Provides mass appeal,  until then.   If a game goes too far off script, its to niche and cant get a strong subscriber base, if it doesnt go off script then it cant sustain long term.  I believe until people can get more immersed in a game, then this is not going to change.
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« Reply #3013 on: May 29, 2012, 10:34:23 PM »

Yeah, I'm looking to get my money out of it by playing through much of the story with a couple characters. I'm not looking for the game that'll hook me for the next 5 years.
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« Reply #3014 on: May 31, 2012, 08:44:35 AM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on May 29, 2012, 10:19:09 PM

While I can understand a lot of the disappointment people have had in the game, its unfortunate, because if you play the game for what it is, its quite fun and theres certainly a lot of bang for your buck game wise.  I dont play a whole lot any more, like a lot of early adopters but I had fun while I played and got a lot of game out of my money.

+1
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« Reply #3015 on: June 02, 2012, 09:31:07 PM »

My Jedi is lvl 12 now, having fun. I could see how it'll get older as lvl prgression slows down though. Might end up playing most of the classes through lvl 10 at least though smile
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« Reply #3016 on: June 03, 2012, 12:26:14 AM »

I got my IA to level 20 before my 90 days expired on the temp credit card number.  I might go back later, but I don't see a pressing need to re-up at the moment.
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« Reply #3017 on: June 05, 2012, 07:24:36 PM »

Seeing it for $19 at BestBuy right now if someone was on the fence.
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« Reply #3018 on: June 07, 2012, 12:04:12 PM »

Get your DOOOM sticks out.  paranoid Server merging is beginning soon, with a free character transfer to a "pre-determined" server.

SWTOR upgrades classes and starts merging servers
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/06/swtor-upgrades-classes-and-starts-merging-servers/
Quote
Secondly, BioWare is well aware of the population issues on a large portion of servers. That is why on June 12th, the team will begin the free character transfer service. In a soft server merge system similar to the one implemented by Star Wars Galaxies, BioWare will open up specific servers as origin servers and others as destination servers. To help BioWare maintain a bit of control over the situation, the transfer precess will be "gradual and staged," according the developer blog post.

The specific details regarding which servers will be affected have not be released yet, but rest assured that Massively will let you in on the latest details when they become available.

[Update: Community Manager Joveth Gonzalez gave more detail on the official forums about how the origin and destination servers will work: "In order to ensure an optimal playing experience for every server, we'll be offering direct transfers from one origin server to a pre-selected destination server."]
I'm sharing this more as a PSA, as you may want to keep an eye out to see if your chosen server(s) is/are impacted. Even if you canceled (like me, though my account's active a couple more months under my 3-month subscription plan), you may want to check if your characters would be on the same server if you returned at some point.

I don't think this means the game is Epic Fail, it just means those crazy busy server situations that just about every popular mmorpg has at launch are over now, and they have to focus more on getting the number of servers down to something where you don't have empty-feeling servers. I suspect until/unless they do a major paid expansion at some point, SWOTR's "growth phase" is over.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 12:06:58 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #3019 on: June 07, 2012, 09:59:26 PM »

Bring on free to play!
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« Reply #3020 on: June 07, 2012, 10:53:46 PM »

not that the game isn't failing, but server merging isn't as big of a deal as people tend to make it out to be
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« Reply #3021 on: June 19, 2012, 03:28:22 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 07, 2012, 10:53:46 PM

not that the game isn't failing, but server merging isn't as big of a deal as people tend to make it out to be

I'm starting to wonder if the first server merges are the best point to start playing a game. The population generally is stabilizing at that point, a lot of the really annoying bugs should be ironed out, etc...
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« Reply #3022 on: June 20, 2012, 06:37:11 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 07, 2012, 10:53:46 PM

not that the game isn't failing, but server merging isn't as big of a deal as people tend to make it out to be

Well, "failing" is a bit strong.  I think with the sheer number of MMORPGs out there now that it's difficult for any of them to sustain a large subscriber base.  WoW came in at the right time (EQ2 had a very poor launch and many simply left it for WoW), and that's simply not possible any more with gamers being spread so thin.  The trick will be whether SWTOR can stabilize at some point.  They will need to add more content quickly, and their "engine" makes that more cumbersome than most.
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« Reply #3023 on: July 18, 2012, 08:01:49 AM »

HK-51 is coming back.
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« Reply #3024 on: July 31, 2012, 08:20:30 PM »

The game is going free to play this fall.  Subscriptions will still be an option, but you can play for free up to level 50 with "restrictions".
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« Reply #3025 on: July 31, 2012, 11:44:13 PM »

they also said something else today  paranoid

GameInformer

Quote
In addition to announcing a new free-to-play option, Electronic Arts said today total subscribers for Star Wars: The Old Republic have slipped below 1 million. EA did not provide a new number, but did say it's "well above" the 500,000 subscriber mark the publisher needs to break even.

The publisher said this past May it saw subscriptions drop from 1.7 million after the game's launch to 1.3 million.

"The message from players exiting the game is clear 40 percent say they were turned off by the monthly subscription," said EA Labels president Frank Gibeau. "And many indicated they would come back if we offered a free-to-play model."

I can post all this,but if it came to consoles i would still give it a go
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« Reply #3026 on: August 01, 2012, 12:53:54 AM »

I'm glad it's going ftp.  I'll go back and finish up some storylines.  I just had a really hard time justifying paying $15 a month for it.
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« Reply #3027 on: August 01, 2012, 02:00:50 AM »

Quote from: Roguetad on August 01, 2012, 12:53:54 AM

I'm glad it's going ftp.  I'll go back and finish up some storylines.  I just had a really hard time justifying paying $15 a month for it.

F2P, guys!  F2P.  Not FTP, which already has another meaning. drillsergeant
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« Reply #3028 on: August 01, 2012, 02:05:54 AM »

Quote from: The Grue on August 01, 2012, 02:00:50 AM

Quote from: Roguetad on August 01, 2012, 12:53:54 AM

I'm glad it's going ftp.  I'll go back and finish up some storylines.  I just had a really hard time justifying paying $15 a month for it.

F2P, guys!  F2P.  Not FTP, which already has another meaning. drillsergeant

yeah, it has nothing to do with flowers.







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« Reply #3029 on: August 01, 2012, 05:03:35 AM »

Quote from: The Grue on August 01, 2012, 02:00:50 AM

Quote from: Roguetad on August 01, 2012, 12:53:54 AM

I'm glad it's going ftp.  I'll go back and finish up some storylines.  I just had a really hard time justifying paying $15 a month for it.

F2P, guys!  F2P.  Not FTP, which already has another meaning. drillsergeant
Lol I didn't even realize that I did that. 
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« Reply #3030 on: August 01, 2012, 07:03:23 AM »

Frankly, Bioware is giving the entire game away with this. They're pulling off a Star Trek Online (which also has few reasons to subscribe).

Want to play a character from 1 to 50 and see their personal story? You can do that for free with all the classes and launch races.

Limited use AH, Warzones (PvP), Flashpoints (PvE raids), Ship Battles (a fun diversion at best), and Operations (also PvE stuffs) cost a subscription to unlock. So what?

If you wanted to play TOR for the story (which it has in spades), now you can do it without spending a dime. Who thought this was a good idea again?
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« Reply #3031 on: August 01, 2012, 10:18:56 PM »

I can't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure at least some of us who rapidly lost our love for the game did so for reasons having nothing to do with the monthly fee. For me, making it "mostly free" won't improve the general player populace's general behavior or friendliness or lack thereof (more likely, it'll make all that worse), won't make later Flashpoints less frustrating, won't make boss encounters fairer or less exasperating, etc. Lots of little things broke my initial fondness for the game and I really haven't seen anything that changes that. Perhaps others may.

The folks from here that I played with earlier in the year were always fine. Just getting us together for a group was generally like trying to herd cats. icon_smile Which is to be expected, given different schedules, time zones, etc.

So maybe Giving It Away is ridiculous but it's clearly losing/churning subscribers far worse than Bioware/EA projected/expected. I'm sure they feel they have to DO Something.

I think the main reason I've tossed in the towel on mmorpgs isn't the game, it's the people. The people I already know (from here, or another forum I hang out) are generally cool but we just can't find suitable times to play together. The PUG folks I generally ran into are anger mangement types, control freaks or just plain anti-social (i.e., they want your help for one mission and then they don't ever want to hear from you again). The social aspect of these games for me seems dead, it's just not there in any mmorpgs I've played the last few years.

I'm not sure why the folks I ran into in City of Heroes 2004-2006 or so, or for the first year or two of LOTRO seemed friendlier, and more sociable. Maybe the world just changed, or the people I liked playing with moved out of gaming altogether or something.

I digress.  icon_smile It'll be interesting to see if the F2P focus pulls anybody back, or not.
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« Reply #3032 on: August 01, 2012, 11:00:24 PM »

The MMO genre has been my gaming preference ever since I spawned as an Armsman in Albion.
I should say that Flight Simming took up a huge chunk of my gaming time for years also.

But the soap opera that is the MMO genre of the last couple of years, has just about squeezed the last bit of joy I was getting from them.

The old saying, " nothing new under the Sun" certainly could and should be applied to this genre.
It really hasn't improved or changed much in years. We all set off full of vim, vigor and enthusiasm when a new one is released. Within the first month you can start the doomsday countdown.
But yet we hang around picking scraps off the decaying carcass of a half baked, half done game. Same old same old.

We've even made the statement.."give the game 6 months before you judge it" ...a knee jerk response to the obvious lacking of a new MMO. say what?

They have been dumbed down, over simplified, and a luke warm mess trying to please everyone.
And you know what  Honest Abe Lincoln said about that.
You can please some all the time
You can please all some of the time
But you can't please all, all of the time.

It's like some one needs to shout out, " The King has no clothes on"

How long can you keep painting over something before it brings the house down.

Fed up with the whole affair.
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« Reply #3033 on: August 02, 2012, 09:17:52 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on August 01, 2012, 11:00:24 PM

The MMO genre has been my gaming preference ever since I spawned as an Armsman in Albion.
I should say that Flight Simming took up a huge chunk of my gaming time for years also.

But the soap opera that is the MMO genre of the last couple of years, has just about squeezed the last bit of joy I was getting from them.

The old saying, " nothing new under the Sun" certainly could and should be applied to this genre.
It really hasn't improved or changed much in years. We all set off full of vim, vigor and enthusiasm when a new one is released. Within the first month you can start the doomsday countdown.
But yet we hang around picking scraps off the decaying carcass of a half baked, half done game. Same old same old.

We've even made the statement.."give the game 6 months before you judge it" ...a knee jerk response to the obvious lacking of a new MMO. say what?

They have been dumbed down, over simplified, and a luke warm mess trying to please everyone.
And you know what  Honest Abe Lincoln said about that.
You can please some all the time
You can please all some of the time
But you can't please all, all of the time.

It's like some one needs to shout out, " The King has no clothes on"

How long can you keep painting over something before it brings the house down.

Fed up with the whole affair.

That's because most of the games that try something different have subs in the 50k range or crash and burn...while the WoW clones, etc get 500k and are still kicking years later.  Just look at Tera (totally action based, no stand and click button play) or Secret World (investigation quests requiring Internet research, real world setting, etc) as recent examples. 

Changes are coming but they're coming slow and a whole generation has now grown up not with EQ1 but with WoW.
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« Reply #3034 on: August 03, 2012, 09:25:52 PM »

fwiw with me, when I filled out the "why are you leaving" survey a while back, I made no mention whatsoever about F2P "bringing me back." I quit for all kinds of reasons, but the monthly fee wasn't one of them. Clearly the masses say otherwise.

I remember it did bother me that all sorts of things we pointed out in beta were sorely missing -- customizable UI and any sort of team-finder/LFG system -- eventually made it in as "quality of life" additions well after launch (probably many who wanted those features had already quit) but why did they wait so long? How did they spend years and millions of dollars developing a supposedly A-List mmorpg and then just entirely not bother to include features other guys had implemented years ago?

That still sticks in my craw. Especially given their decision not to really innovate, per se, in the mmorpg space. Well, if you're not going to innovate, then at least make sure your game at launch has all the features that mmorpg players take for granted. Don't brush them off as not being a priority, or don't insinuate that "hey, we want people to just yell in the public channel for other players all freaking day because that's SOCIAL!"  disgust

Wait, I can feel my crankiness returning. That's why I don't post in this thread regularly anymore. Sick of my own whining. Sorry. I'll stop my hot air. icon_smile
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« Reply #3035 on: August 03, 2012, 11:09:52 PM »

I absolutely quit because of the fee, but then again I just wanted a single player KOTOR sequel in the first place. I will absolutely go back when it is free.
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« Reply #3036 on: August 09, 2012, 07:43:31 PM »

My  local Gamestop has the CE version for $30 down from $150(?).  Is the game worth it at that price given that it is ftp?  I know it is mostly paying for the CE items, but would I get $30 of enjoyment out of the game?

I have played WoW and a few other mmorpg games, but mostly for the "free" month and always soloing.  I just like running around the game world to explore and take in the cool sights and atmosphere of the universe.

I am a SW fan to the point that I liked the movies, played the Dark Forces / Jedi Knight games and a bit of KotOR.  I have also dabbled in the extended universe stuff and generally enjoy most things SW, but no where near fanboy territory.  I love checking out the SW art books and reference material.

So with that background, do you think buying the CE is worth it for $30?
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ericb
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« Reply #3037 on: August 09, 2012, 07:57:23 PM »

Quote from: Vinda-Lou on August 09, 2012, 07:43:31 PM

My  local Gamestop has the CE version for $30 down from $150(?).  Is the game worth it at that price given that it is ftp?  I know it is mostly paying for the CE items, but would I get $30 of enjoyment out of the game?

I have played WoW and a few other mmorpg games, but mostly for the "free" month and always soloing.  I just like running around the game world to explore and take in the cool sights and atmosphere of the universe.

I am a SW fan to the point that I liked the movies, played the Dark Forces / Jedi Knight games and a bit of KotOR.  I have also dabbled in the extended universe stuff and generally enjoy most things SW, but no where near fanboy territory.  I love checking out the SW art books and reference material.

So with that background, do you think buying the CE is worth it for $30?

It's worth the $30 for the free month and the goodies...I think the statue itself retails for much more than $30.  It's not the greatest but I did enjoy the two months or so I played.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #3038 on: August 10, 2012, 04:50:47 PM »

Oh Malgus.... Malgus.... how you MOCK me and the love I once had for your overhyped game.  tear


So, Gamasutra tries to answers the multi-million dollar question...

What Went Wrong with Star Wars The Old Republic
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/175409/What_went_wrong_with_Star_Wars_The_Old_Republic.php
I don't pretend to understand his analysis of the game's economy and monetary system.

I'm not sure we'd all agree that "locking" your best content behind gates in a F2P is a recipe for success. It's interesting, but I gather all of us would have our own reasons for departing the game and our own ideas on What Went Wrong including the polar opposite beliefs that SWTOR "was too much like WoW to succeed long-term," and that it "if it had only done everything exactly like WoW did it, it would still have a gazillion subscribers."

Two things I had submitted feedback on during beta about (lack of UI customization and need for a "team finder" for forming groups) were eventually addressed long after launch. Nothing much else I suggested or tried to give constructive criticism about ever really got addressed.

imho, if Bioware thinks F2P is a magic bullet that will bring everyone back and retain them, they're dreaming. I'm sure it'll look good on a quarterly earnings report to say F2P brought in this influx of players (even if say, 1/3 are spammers exploiting free accounts).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 04:52:58 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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Blackjack
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« Reply #3039 on: August 15, 2012, 12:29:38 PM »

Brief F2P Q&A
http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-free-play-edition
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