Star Wars: The Old Republic announced

[Arclight]

See, for me I saw enough in the "test" to know that Swtor is nothing special in the Whacky World of gaming. The things that will, or will not get changed by release time, wont be the things that make Swtor another yawn fest after 3 or 4 weeks. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I've got an opinion like everyone else.

There is nothing in ToR that says, "hey, this is gonna be my go to MMO for a long while". And the things that alot of people are stoked about I don't find that cool in a MMO. The whole voiced over story line thing. Its different, but its not going to help longevity for ToR.
Anyway, far be it from me to dampen peoples fun and excitment for this. I hope this turns out to be all that and fish n chips. But I don't think so.

[Hotfreak]

See, for me I saw enough in the "test" to know that Swtor is nothing special in the Whacky World of gaming. The things that will, or will not get changed by release time, wont be the things that make Swtor another yawn fest after 3 or 4 weeks. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I've got an opinion like everyone else.

There is nothing in ToR that says, "hey, this is gonna be my go to MMO for a long while". And the things that alot of people are stoked about I don't find that cool in a MMO. The whole voiced over story line thing. Its different, but its not going to help longevity for ToR.
Anyway, far be it from me to dampen peoples fun and excitment for this. I hope this turns out to be all that and fish n chips. But I don't think so.

What's your "go to MMO", then?  I'm curious, because you make it sound like there is a spot reserved, what fills or has filled that spot.

I don't disagree with your assessment, really.  I don't see the legs on this one.    From what little I saw, it seemed like a mix of standard MMO fare (wow-like, eq-like) and standard KotOR rpg fare (which bioware does pretty well), but a mix like oil and water rather than reese's peanut butter cup.  I just think the kotOR fare was done pretty well.  I couldn't really tell, but the MMO part didn't seem that exciting or evolved.

[msteelers]

See, for me I saw enough in the "test" to know that Swtor is nothing special in the Whacky World of gaming. The things that will, or will not get changed by release time, wont be the things that make Swtor another yawn fest after 3 or 4 weeks. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I've got an opinion like everyone else.

I'm usually pretty happy with a game purchase that will get me 3-4 weeks of enjoyment. Outside of COD there are very few games I continue to play once I finish the story missions. So I already know going in that my enjoyment of TOR will be directly tied to how much I like the story. From my short time in the beta it looks like the story is pretty good. I'll keep playing as long as the story keeps me interested.

[Blackjack]

I take a break from my navel-gazing to post some screenshots from the weekend...


My smuggler's first cap, which was a little too WWII commando movie-ish for me. So I used the "hide head" option... Do note they haven't enabled antialiasing in test builds to this point.


Note the tooltip that mentions "voice modifications enabled by helmets."   Which you can also disable with that option.


A feedback form after completing a Heroic quest with a group. I've used the comments thread in the past to suggest at least a dedicated LFG channel (you can create a custom but nobody will know it's there). There is a Trading channel, so I don't think they're just leaving it as General chat and creating nothing else. If you can find folks to do them with, Heroic group quest often spit up really nice loot, and commendations tend to always be an option in case the loot doesn't interest you.

I had decent luck with PUGs in terms of forming teams that had one of each Republic class.


*The giant weapon icon there, I think that's to denote something's a big, nasty boss that only a group should try to tackle, and not a "trash mob" anyone can handle. This Heroic's seriously Heroic -- once in the prior weekend test I was in, I tried it w/ just my companion and was squashed like a grape in record time.  

[cheeba]

Do note they haven't enabled antialiasing in test builds to this point.

Actually in the launch build they've completely removed it from preferences. So it looks like if you want AA in SWTOR you'll have to force it through your video card.

[Arkon]

Do note they haven't enabled antialiasing in test builds to this point.

Actually in the launch build they've completely removed it from preferences. So it looks like if you want AA in SWTOR you'll have to force it through your video card.

I think there is some confusion...the build out now is not that launch build...it is the build that will be patched to the launch build, meaning no more uninstalling/reinstalling.  That isn't to say AA will be back in for launch, but what we have right at this moment is technically not the launch client.

[Arclight]

See, for me I saw enough in the "test" to know that Swtor is nothing special in the Whacky World of gaming. The things that will, or will not get changed by release time, wont be the things that make Swtor another yawn fest after 3 or 4 weeks. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I've got an opinion like everyone else.

There is nothing in ToR that says, "hey, this is gonna be my go to MMO for a long while". And the things that alot of people are stoked about I don't find that cool in a MMO. The whole voiced over story line thing. Its different, but its not going to help longevity for ToR.
Anyway, far be it from me to dampen peoples fun and excitment for this. I hope this turns out to be all that and fish n chips. But I don't think so.

What's your "go to MMO", then?  I'm curious, because you make it sound like there is a spot reserved, what fills or has filled that spot.

I don't disagree with your assessment, really.  I don't see the legs on this one.    From what little I saw, it seemed like a mix of standard MMO fare (wow-like, eq-like) and standard KotOR rpg fare (which bioware does pretty well), but a mix like oil and water rather than reese's peanut butter cup.  I just think the kotOR fare was done pretty well.  I couldn't really tell, but the MMO part didn't seem that exciting or evolved.

What is my go to MMO? I wish I had one to tell the truth. But what it is in theory, is that MMO you play and it just grabs ya from the get-go. You can't stop thinking about it and your character. You day dream about builds and you next levels. I've had it a few times so I do know it when I smash into it. 
And I've played MMO's that I knew I would be subscribing to for a long time in beta form. And in all their un-finisheness I still knew it was going to be my go-to MMO for a long while.
Tor never gave me that in the least. It lacks identifiable things that we've all mentioned, but it also lacks the intangible things that just grab ya and don't let you go. It just felt so bland, and sterile. Not even great graphics to keep you oooo'ing and aaaaah'ing for a while.
I think this is going to be a bumpy ride for BW.

[Arkon]

See, for me I saw enough in the "test" to know that Swtor is nothing special in the Whacky World of gaming. The things that will, or will not get changed by release time, wont be the things that make Swtor another yawn fest after 3 or 4 weeks. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but I've got an opinion like everyone else.

There is nothing in ToR that says, "hey, this is gonna be my go to MMO for a long while". And the things that alot of people are stoked about I don't find that cool in a MMO. The whole voiced over story line thing. Its different, but its not going to help longevity for ToR.
Anyway, far be it from me to dampen peoples fun and excitment for this. I hope this turns out to be all that and fish n chips. But I don't think so.

What's your "go to MMO", then?  I'm curious, because you make it sound like there is a spot reserved, what fills or has filled that spot.

I don't disagree with your assessment, really.  I don't see the legs on this one.    From what little I saw, it seemed like a mix of standard MMO fare (wow-like, eq-like) and standard KotOR rpg fare (which bioware does pretty well), but a mix like oil and water rather than reese's peanut butter cup.  I just think the kotOR fare was done pretty well.  I couldn't really tell, but the MMO part didn't seem that exciting or evolved.

What is my go to MMO? I wish I had one to tell the truth. But what it is in theory, is that MMO you play and it just grabs ya from the get-go. You can't stop thinking about it and your character. You day dream about builds and you next levels. I've had it a few times so I do know it when I smash into it. 
And I've played MMO's that I knew I would be subscribing to for a long time in beta form. And in all their un-finisheness I still knew it was going to be my go-to MMO for a long while.
Tor never gave me that in the least. It lacks identifiable things that we've all mentioned, but it also lacks the intangible things that just grab ya and don't let you go. It just felt so bland, and sterile. Not even great graphics to keep you oooo'ing and aaaaah'ing for a while.
I think this is going to be a bumpy ride for BW.

I understand everyone is different, and respect your opinion, but for me that intangible you mention that just grabs you....the story is what does it for me.  Yes the game has warts, but the story draws me in to where all of the warts fade away and I can't stop thinking about what might happen next.

[Roguetad]

I'm not sure it's going to be a bumpy ride for BW.  Worst case scenario, they sell a ton of units (boxes and digital), and experience an AoC-like dropoff after a few months.  We can only speculate of course, but I'd be surprised if that happened here.  I quit AoC after a few months because I thought most of the game would be like the Tortage expereince, and it fell mostly flat on its face at level 20.  Like being kicked to the curb after a stay at a 5 star hotel.

TOR's story goes all the way to level cap, right?  At a minimum, that would keep me sucked in long enough to get there, however long that takes.  As far as it being a bumpy ride, I think it depends on their profit model, how long they need someone to sub to be profitable, and what they've forecasted.      

[Arclight]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I was thinking more of the back lash from the media and subscribers. The bumpy road being harsh feed-back and such. I have no doubt they'll be swimming in gold just from the initial ground swell. There should be a ton of first time MMO players getting this, I would think. But I don't know how many of them can take the grind of a MMO. And Tor doesn't seem to be exempt from that grind.

Anyway, I wanted this game to go galactic with its success. I was pulling for it for along time like most of you guys. Its just that try as I may I can't see ToR as anything other than an average game, with a big slant toward solo play.

[The Grue]

For me, I like the story of the character I played so much that I would be willing to experience those stories for all the classes and experience them up to their full levels.  I never, and I mean NEVER, play alts in MMOs.  THis goes all the way back to when I played my first MMO, Meridian 59.  This is the first MMO that I am entertaining making multiple characters and because of that, they would have my monthly money for a long time to come.

[Hotfreak]

What is my go to MMO? I wish I had one to tell the truth. But what it is in theory, is that MMO you play and it just grabs ya from the get-go. You can't stop thinking about it and your character. You day dream about builds and you next levels. I've had it a few times so I do know it when I smash into it. 
And I've played MMO's that I knew I would be subscribing to for a long time in beta form. And in all their un-finisheness I still knew it was going to be my go-to MMO for a long while.
Tor never gave me that in the least. It lacks identifiable things that we've all mentioned, but it also lacks the intangible things that just grab ya and don't let you go. It just felt so bland, and sterile. Not even great graphics to keep you oooo'ing and aaaaah'ing for a while.
I think this is going to be a bumpy ride for BW.

Heh, I was actually fishing for which MMO's grabbed you like that.  Quite a few have grabbed me, but only SWG and WoW had me for an extended period of time.

[Arclight]

Umm, DAoC in its day. SWG before the nuke was dropped on it. WoW suprisingly. Early days of CoH had me for a while too. But for space, science fiction MMO's..SWG for sure has been the best in my experience.

[Blackjack]

So I'm finally compiling some stress test video from the Hammer Station Flashpoint. Here be:

Hammer Station Flashpoint video from the beta stress test Nov. 28 (it's 720HD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKXiV2DKDSQ
*Some info on it's at official site: http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/flashpoints

It's called "mid-game," seems to be roughly for L16 up to the 20s somewhere. Our pug was a mix of L16ishes and L20ishes. I guess I managed to hit 17 just before we finished, which was just before the extended weekend test ended.

By this point the Smuggler>Gunslinger has some cool skills that change the gun barrel color, add attachments to the barrel when used etc. There are also some fun little "cowboy-like" animations, as with spinning your pistols on your fingers before tossing a grenade etc.

Although I had some grenade attacks that hit multiple targets, I don't think at that point my smuggler had any gunfire skills that affected multiple targets. I definitely saw some that did further up the Gunslinger tree.

I tend to my put my stims and med packs on a side hotkey bar, but as I've whined, on a widescreen monitor, it's not always easy to remember to see 'em there.
-------------------

As with the Diablo III stuff, I'm using Windows Movie Maker. You can apply various effects. Now, 99% of the time, all the effects do is do annoying things and I don't usually bother except maybe for a funky transition to the closing credits.

But... I was tinkering around and applied the "Watercolor" effect to a couple clips. Wow. If they'd just applied "Watercolor" to the graphics, you'd have something akin to a "live action graphic novel." I really think it's cool. Esp. with the light saber effects, explosions, any sort of colors, it just seems to bring the game's look more alive.

I might post the watercolored version later. Obviously the hotkey trays, quest tracker etc. become blurred out. So I wouldn't want an entirely watercolored SWTOR, but I think the effect does some very cool things with the look and action. I'm not sure if it makes it look more anime, or more like a graphic novel, but I genuinely preferred the look over the game as it is -- it just seems to give it more pizzaz.

Although hey, it's pretty doubtful we'll get a Monet SWTOR Graphics Mod any time soon.  

[Blackjack]

Although I got no notice about being in this weekend's final beta test, I noticed the patcher is still working. I don't think it's gonna let me play, but I should know soon.  

Ah well, false alarm. But it's probably a good idea to run the updater now and then until early access starts.

[Asharak]

Ah well, false alarm. But it's probably a good idea to run the updater now and then until early access starts.

This is my plan. I'm figuring/assuming that keeping up with the updates they release incrementally should minimize how long I have to spend patching on launch day.

- Ash

[Blackjack]

Ah well, false alarm. But it's probably a good idea to run the updater now and then until early access starts.

This is my plan. I'm figuring/assuming that keeping up with the updates they release incrementally should minimize how long I have to spend patching on launch day.

- Ash

Unless they decide to patch specifically from last weekend's beta. Then we're screwed!   I think I'm kidding...

Don't forget to get your $249.99 keyboard, $149.99 mouse, $139.99 headphones and $49.99 mousepad! And a barrel to wear since you'll have no money left when the game launches!  

Pre-Order The Old Republic Peripherals [aka Insanely Prized Razer peripherals]
http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20111202-1

P.S. My European Steam bud Topper says in Europe that's more along the lines of $337 for the keyboard and $189 for the mouse!  

[Roguetad]

These are not the peripherals you are looking for.

[Blackjack]

These are not the peripherals you are looking for.

Hmmm, maybe this bamboo keyboard would be more Jedi-suitable?  
http://www.amazon.com/Impecca-KBB500C-Bamboo-Handcrafted-Keyboard/dp/B003VOOOKY

fwiw, Amazon already shows the keyboard and mouse as out of stock, and the headphones as "ships in 3 to 6 weeks," oops. 

[Elmo]

From BioWare:

Today we are announcing that the Pre-Launch Guild Program for Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ has come to an end. Guilds that have met the prerequisite of having four members redeem their Pre-Order Codes at our Code Redemption Center are now locked for transfer into the game in time for our December 20th launch.

If your guild has qualified for import, you can expect to receive an email at some time over the next several days. This email will give you further details on how to check the status of your guild as well as further details about how to join your guild once you’re in the game. Your email will also tell you which server your guild has been assigned to, so you will know which one to select when Early Game Access begins. While we will do everything we can to ensure that your Allies and Adversaries are on your server with you, we can’t necessarily guarantee that every guild will see their Allies and Adversaries on their server with them.

We want to thank each and every one of you who took part in the program, and we look forward to seeing you all in the game!

[Arclight]

Fired up the old beta client from the one week-end I did and it patched up and the play button shone brightly. A tad ironic because at this point I'm not that interested in play ToR. I logged in anyway and created a Consular. Yep, the same feeling is still there, I couldn't play longer than 10 minutes without being bored to tears. What a waste, because I'm sure there are some here who really like this game and would love a couple of days play time. Sorry guys, If I could I'd pass it over.

[rshetts2]

I really like the game and am looking forward to it launch but to be honest, I wouldnt want the beta time even if you could give it to me.  I got in on 2 weekends, spent one on the Republic side and one on the Sith Empire side.  I got done what I wanted pre-launch and really dont have a desire to beta this any longer.  Bring on the launch!

[Blackjack]

The game's actually motivating me to get as much of my Xmas shopping and card-writing done as early as I can, to keep mid December relatively clear.  

I'm not certain how long the fresh paint (voicework) and the cool stuff between the cracks (companions, group conversation "rolls" etc.) in SWTOR will hook me, but if it keeps me as long as even Rift did -- which was just a little bit past the 3-month payment plan I initially signed up for -- I'll consider it a decent investment. Even if EA-Bioware would cry at the notion of me only playing SWTOR 3-4 months.  

The thing is, in many mmorpgs I've played, I haven't even felt inclined to play all the classes. City of Heroes was maybe the last one in which I eventually did get around to playing at least one of each class pretty far into the game, which i think contributed to how long I ended up actively playing that (from April 2004 well into 2007).

I think I'll feel inclined to do that with SWTOR for the storylines, and just because every class seems truly fun to play. The crew/companion system seems to finally make crafting something I (oh impatient one) can truly both enjoy and find useful. I think that will really open up some enjoyment of something (crafting) that I've mostly ignored in mmorpgs to date because I found it either tedious, frustrating, confusing or just downright annoying to do.

No game is everything to all people. The fact I played WoW for 3 weeks shortly after launch and never had an itch to try it again in nearly 7 years since should illustrate that. I think part of it was the game uses mouse look a bit differently than City of Heroes (I found it difficult to switch between the two because of that), and maybe after spending what seemed to be an hour killing a pig (!), I didn't feel WoW's magic. 

I thought I'd play stuff like Tabula Rasa and Age of Conan forever, and didn't even stay with those games more than few months. It wasn't too long after I went Lifetime on LOTRO and later STO that I lost interest in both games, although I revisit briefly from time to time, trying to recapture the "magic."

So while I'm very optimisic about how long I'll enjoy SWTOR, life ... or another game... is what happens when you're busy making other plans.  

[Blackjack]

Achievements update:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=11684011#edit11684011

Achievements are indeed in the game currently. You'll receive achievements for things like killing certain "Epic Enemies," unlocking titles, and accomplishing objectives in PvP. These are all kept in a special category in your Codex, so that you can view how you earned each one at any time.

[Asharak]

I'm not certain how long the fresh paint (voicework) and the cool stuff between the cracks (companions, group conversation "rolls" etc.) in SWTOR will hook me, but if it keeps me as long as even Rift did -- which was just a little bit past the 3-month payment plan I initially signed up for -- I'll consider it a decent investment.

I'll consider the game worthwhile if it keeps me playing for three months. I'll consider it excellent if it keeps me playing from three months to whenever-Guild-Wars-2-launches. I'll consider it a classic (or GW2 profoundly disappointing) if I'm still playing it past the launch of GW2.

- Ash

[CeeKay]

Don't forget to get your $249.99 keyboard, $149.99 mouse, $139.99 headphones and $49.99 mousepad! And a barrel to wear since you'll have no money left when the game launches!  

Pre-Order The Old Republic Peripherals [aka Insanely Prized Razer peripherals]
http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20111202-1

those mice look damned uncomfortable, but those keyboards?   hawt.

[cheeba]

And all beta testing is now done. Anyone who's read this thread likely knows my thoughts on the game, but after several months of testing I figured I'd summarize:

PvE
WoW with lightsabers. Sorry, but it's true. They took WoW and customized it a little. They even took some talents directly from WoW and copied them exactly.
Linear. Dark or Light, doesn't really matter. Choices don't really matter. No decision you make is going to really affect anything. It can't, of course, because it's an MMO. However...
This is a single player MMO. It is fun to roll in a group, but it's certainly not necessary and the rewards for doing so are nothing worth writing about.
The coolest part about the game is the companions. They have surprisingly competent AI and are the one thing that differentiates this game from the rest. Unfortunately, the Sith Inquisitor companions mostly suck and are completely uninteresting. Roll another class if you want a decent story and companions.
The story is of utmost importance to BioWare, yet the Sith Inquisitor storyline sucks ass.
They've given inexplicably little attention to the social aspect of an MMO. There aren't that many emotes. There's no mini-games like pazaak or whatever it's called. There's not much encouragement to group or socialize or interact with other players.

PvP - I'm what most would call a hardcore PvP'er, so judge my opinions accordingly
PvP is an afterthought to BioWare.
This game is designed from the ground up to deter World PvP. You don't see anyone of the opposing faction until level 25 or much higher. Even then you go on to planets that are instanced and the 2 factions don't share.
There is really no reason for PvP servers because of this design philosophy.
They had a fun system where you got a nice piece of PvP gear (probably too nice) every level if you did a few warzones here and there. They replaced that with a grinding system.
At level 50 they now have a system where your PvP gear is decided by RNG (random number generating). They have made end-game PvP gear an enormous grind and based on luck. I was able to attain 8 pieces of PvP gear. 3 of those pieces were duplicates I could not use.
1 of their 3 warzones (Voidstar) does not currently work most of the time. It kicks you out to character select or crashes. No one has any idea how ties are decided. It seems to award every tie to the Republic.
Their end game PvP content is horribly designed, buggy and unfinished. The western shelf of Ilum is basically a big warzone. On one end is an Imperial base and a Republic base in the other. Each base is attackable (or repairable if it's been destroyed) every 5 minutes. In between the 2 bases are 3 assault zones - northern, central and southern. In those zones they have walkers who do not go anywhere but stamp their feet to give the illusion of movement. Every 5 minutes 3 of those walkers are attackable. You click on them and a rocket launcher comes out of your ass and you destroy it 10 seconds later. You then move on to the next objective. It is in your best interest to let the other side take the objectives back every 5 minutes, because you cannot complete your mission by defending points - you have to take them. So the 2 factions tend to just ride by each other and destroy the objectives and cycle through. Unfortunately, several of the objectives break. This morning there were only 2 out of the 5 objectives working.

I am still buying the game and looking forward to it. However, I am only giving BioWare a max 2 months before they have to show some serious improvement on PvP if they're going to keep me. It's obvious they put PvP on the backburner to get the game to launch. Now that it's launching, it's time to put up.

My guy at 50 in PvP gear:


Dark Corruption on display. This is with Dark Corruption turned off:


Turned on. Maximum darkside points:


End of Beta party in the Dromund Kaas cantina:

[ydejin]

Thanks for taking the time to post all your thoughts cheeba.

The coolest part about the game is the companions. They have surprisingly competent AI and are the one thing that differentiates this game from the rest. Unfortunately, the Sith Inquisitor companions mostly suck and are completely uninteresting. Roll another class if you want a decent story and companions.
The story is of utmost importance to BioWare, yet the Sith Inquisitor storyline sucks ass.
They've given inexplicably little attention to the social aspect of an MMO. There aren't that many emotes. There's no mini-games like pazaak or whatever it's called. There's not much encouragement to group or socialize or interact with other players.

So which classes are known to have the best stories and best companions?  I played Jedi Knight to about 16 and Imperial Agent to about 14.  Really liked the Imperial Agent story.  Companion was okay, I guess, although I really don't like the punk or goth looks, so I definitely was not predisposed to like the the companion.  The Jedi Knight story was okay, but no where near as engaging as the Imperial Agent one.  Companion was also okay, more likeable than the IA one for sure, but perhaps a bit more difficult to engage   (for those who haven't met the JK first companion, he's a bit unusual, although very Star Warsy).  I've only briefly touched the story for either so they could get considerably better or a lot worse pretty quickly.

I also played a Sith Inquisitor up to about 7-8.  Not far enough in to really get a feel for the story, and didn't get to the first companion.  My main complaint was her dialog seemed really bad -- the voice acting was good, but half of her lines consisted of her giving lip to her supervisor who already didn't like her and who was powerful enough to squash her like a bug.  That just seemed really bone-headed [I think the right Sith option would be to keep your mouth quiet, brood in private and plot your revenge, while slowly gaining the power you need to destroy your enemies, instead of publicly giving threats that you don't have the means to follow through with, thus telegraphing your intentions early, while you still lack the means to defend yourself effectively.]  I couldn't tell from the dialog prompts which of her lines were going to make her act like an idiot and risk getting blasted -- some of her options looked pretty innocuous, but nevertheless resulted in her mouthing off at people.

I am still buying the game and looking forward to it. However, I am only giving BioWare a max 2 months before they have to show some serious improvement on PvP if they're going to keep me. It's obvious they put PvP on the backburner to get the game to launch. Now that it's launching, it's time to put up.

While I certainly wouldn't suggest you should support a game that's not giving you what you want, is 2 months realistic?  They do seem to have put in an admirable amount of polish in the last month or so, and I was astounded at how much the STO team managed to get in during their public beta.  But 2 months just doesn't seem that long to add in new stuff, unless you just want polishing.  I'd say 6 months is a more realistic time frame for real serious improvements.

[CeeKay]

WoW with lightsabers. Sorry, but it's true. They took WoW and customized it a little. They even took some talents directly from WoW and copied them exactly.

I was watching a friend who got in on free play time (I used very little of my free play time so I could keep the game fresh at launch) and it did indeed feel like that.  go kill x bad guys, rescue x good guys.  oh, could you find my father?  he'll be the corpse wearing this certain ring.

[ydejin]

WoW with lightsabers. Sorry, but it's true. They took WoW and customized it a little. They even took some talents directly from WoW and copied them exactly.

I was watching a friend who got in on free play time (I used very little of my free play time so I could keep the game fresh at launch) and it did indeed feel like that.  go kill x bad guys, rescue x good guys.  oh, could you find my father?  he'll be the corpse wearing this certain ring.

Try playing the Imperial Agent.  I won't claim there were no FedEx quests (mostly from the non-character, general world quests).  But the main character quest, at least as far as I got (level 14 or so) was very much a Bioware story in top form -- very involving, interesting twists, some tough choices.

[rshetts2]

WoW with lightsabers. Sorry, but it's true. They took WoW and customized it a little. They even took some talents directly from WoW and copied them exactly.

I was watching a friend who got in on free play time (I used very little of my free play time so I could keep the game fresh at launch) and it did indeed feel like that.  go kill x bad guys, rescue x good guys.  oh, could you find my father?  he'll be the corpse wearing this certain ring.

Try playing the Imperial Agent.  I won't claim there were no FedEx quests (mostly from the non-character, general world quests).  But the main character quest, at least as far as I got (level 14 or so) was very much a Bioware story in top form -- very involving, interesting twists, some tough choices.

+1

Playing the Imperial Agent definitely had less of a grindy feel to it as the story was a lot of fun to play through and was very engaging, as far as I played it.  (level 15)

That being said, yes its an MMO and yes it has a lot of the established MMO game play but it IS different than WoW and its not just WoW with lightsabers.  In fact the two classes I played that I enjoyed the most, never once used a lightsaber.
 I understand Cheebas point of view as he is an admitted PVPer but for those looking for something in an MMO that is different from WoW, in the PVE area, at least for me, this game is it.  The story changes the flavor and feel of everything you do, even when youre doing a basic MMO style quest.  Clearly this game was developed more for people who have interest in the advancement of their character, than the crushing of someone elses.
  Companions are a great addition as well.  It allows for a few friends to get together and and play beyond the solo content, without having to PUG for the smaller instances.  It is correct that SW:TOR doesnt  force you into large power guild to enjoy the game.  I dont see that a s a detractor though.  The option to guild up and raid is there, it just isnt as necessary for the advancement of your character.  This will allow smaller guilds built with friends to actually be viable.  I always saw forcing people into a large guild to be, in the end, a major problem in WoW. 
 In SW:TOR, the major power guilds will still exist, PVP is also a part of the game but it looks like Biowares focus is more on building a game for the individual to play in a social ( ie: mmo ) setting, than it is to build a social game that forces you into it.

[Soulchilde]

You know until some developer goes out on a limb and invent a game with out fed-ex quest and grinding 10 mobs all MMO will be compared to WoW.  It astounds me that people want to use it as a negative as most AAA MMO will use this feature.  WoW didn't invent it, but certainly did perfect it.   MMOs are very stagnant at the moment and until someone invent another way to keep people playing and paying without grinding then this is what we will get. 

[cheeba]

So which classes are known to have the best stories and best companions?

Imperial Agent seems to get the most votes for best storyline. I only played one to 10 and didn't get enough of a feel for it. A lot of people also like the Bounty Hunter storyline. For companions, I think Sith Warrior and Bounty Hunter are strongest for the empire (I never played republic).

But 2 months just doesn't seem that long to add in new stuff, unless you just want polishing.  I'd say 6 months is a more realistic time frame for real serious improvements.

I don't necessarily need to see major improvements in those 2 months, but I do need to see some evidence that BioWare is serious about PvP. Right now it's obvious they don't really give a turd about PvP.

[PR_GMR]

Cheeba, thanks for your summarized impressions and the nifty screenshots. This is more or less what I expected from the game and it warrants my purchase. I too will give two months tops before moving on. I'm planning on playing with friends on two guilds during that time.. so that should be good enough fun from this MMO.

[Arkon]

On the republic side I really enjoyed the trooper story line, and for me they had hands down the best companions, however I am not in the majority in my view of the trooper companions.  The only republic story line I didn't care for was the Jedi Knight.

[cheeba]

You know until some developer goes out on a limb and invent a game with out fed-ex quest and grinding 10 mobs all MMO will be compared to WoW.

That's not really the case for me. I thought BioWare did a pretty good job of eliminating the grind, though they've replaced it with a quest grind. There will be some planets where you hate seeing another quest giver and you just want it to stop. However, many of the quests are decent enough.

Its comparisons to WoW for me come from the game mechanics: the rage meter that you have to build up as a Sith Warrior, the energy bar that quickly depletes and regenerates for the Assassin (in WoW I remember as a rogue choosing a talent that adds +10 to energy - in SWTOR there's the exact same talent), the pool of mana for the Sorcerer.

I know WoW didn't invent those things, but it's the popular one, so it gets the comparisons. I am disappointed that BioWare didn't have the guts or skill to come up with a system that was even slightly different, though I understand the reasons for so close a copy - $$$.

My feeling is that because it is such a close copy of WoW, SWTOR can never be considered a great game. To borrow a line from American Chopper, BioWare is a cake decorator here. They didn't bake the cake. They just took the same cake and added some frosting.

[Roguetad]

I'm not going to place a self imposed timeline on the game.  If I'm still having fun, I'll keep playing (and paying).  

Regarding class stories, as has already been said, the Imperial Agent is excellent.  I thought the Bounty Hunter was pretty good too.  I played the Sith Inquisitor up to 11, and it was just ok.  Of the 2 Sith force users, the Warrior had the cooler story imo, and I only played him to level 9.

I didn't want to spoil the republic stories, so I only briefly sampled the smuggler, trooper and consular.  Smuggler seemed promising, the trooper was fun, and the consular seemed like it might shape up to be a snoozer (but that's just from a very limited amount play time).  Hopefully the consular gets more exciting.  

    

[Hotfreak]

I enjoyed the one flashpoint that I played (over and over).  It was fun the way they did the dialog and choices.  Still, I don't feel like the interesting Kotor/ME-like storytelling is very well integrated into the MMO.  THAT could be where they innovate and I would be impressed and interested.  It all feels very safe, though.  Their $$ went into asset creation and they will damn well make that $$ back.  I get it.  I'm not a hater, just not a lover.

[Blackjack]

The forums are getting wiped as they revamp them for launch:

Launch Forums Wipes and Changes
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=11779064#edit11779064

This Saturday, Dec. 10th, the Forums will become unavailable as we make preparations for launch. When they become available again, you'll notice many exciting changes!

First of all, we'll have many new forums available where you can discuss all aspects of the game, from Crew Skills to PvP. The Guild Hall forums will be expanded significantly and will include new "Looking for Guild" forums, class forums will contain sub-forums for each Advanced Class, and we'll introduce a new Story and Lore forum for discussion of the game's setting and story. To encourage constructive community building, you'll also notice a "New Player Help" forum and a Community section that includes areas for regional check-ins and meetups, all kinds of fan creations and role-playing, and forums for server event organization. These are just some of the new forums we'll be introducing. We're looking forward to all the great discussion!

Another new feature we're implementing is our Community blog, which will appear at the top of www.SWTOR.com/community. We'll use this blog for important community announcements, updates, and to post articles of interest to our community members, so make sure to check it out frequently!

The launch Forums will be a fresh start: all threads, posts, and private messages will be removed and warnings and infractions on your account will be deleted. If you have any special posts or private messages that you would like to save, please do so now! When Early Game Access begins, only those who have redeemed their Pre-Order Code will be able to post on the forums, though everyone will be able to view them. Then, when the game officially launches, only those who have active game time will be permitted to post.

As we move forward, we will continue to improve our community forums. You can expect to see new features that make it easier to find developer posts and several updates to our skin to make everyday use of the forums easier for everyone.

We're very excited about the changes that are coming, and we can't wait to work with you to make the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ community a great experience for everyone!

Although I posted quite a bit in the temporary weekend tester forums (a bit ridiculous -- you'd constantly see 27 new threads on the exact same topic every day), I've not been brave enough to post on the main forums.

I dunno. I'm spoiled by GT. I think we're reasonably well-behaved here. In fact, the once in a blue moon sometimes a reply here upsets me it's because I'm generally used to everyone being easy going about stuff.   However, it doesn't necessarily prepare you for posting at a busy official forum for a popular mmorpg. Sometimes those get really nasty, really fast, no matter how big the moderation army.

And I think we have enough traffic that you see a lot of viewpoints, and yet small enough you get to kind of recognize people and where they're coming from. Sometimes at a busy mmorpg official forum there's a hundred new people an hour, and it just kind of gets out of control, in my experience.
==========

Ahh, boo! Did you guys just get this e-mail notice to uninstall your test client?  

Thank you for your participation in the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Game Testing Program. In preparation for the game's official release, if you are receiving this email, you must uninstall the game-testing client before installing the launch game client.

etc., etc., etc. (uninstall directions).

This is a Jedi Mind Trick. The e-mail says I MUST UNINSTALL the test client. But the beta FAQ it sends me to says I don't need to do that if it was the client from Thanksgiving weekend's beta test.

I'm afraid to make the conversation dice roll choice! 

[Vindel]

Heya Blackjack, yes I too received the email stating that I had to uninstall the beta client to get ready for the install of the retail client. Bummer