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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced  (Read 127514 times)
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rshetts2
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« Reply #2000 on: November 28, 2011, 03:50:44 AM »

First off,  my comp specs:  Intel i-7 2600K with a gtx 590 and 12 gb of ram.  The game ran fantastic.
 Regarding stability, I never had a major issue. No crashes, no lag. I did have an equipment problem with my companion. Once I achieved my advanced class, suddenly the requirement on my companions off hand shield generator changed and she couldnt equip it. For some reason, the requirement that states who could equip it changed from Kaliyo to a different companion name. I put a ticket in and Im sure its probably a simple fix for them. Outside of that, the game ran amazingly stable.

The Imperial Agent story line was absolutely awesome. I had a blast playing through it. I really enjoyed the Smuggler in the first beta as well, so when this thing goes live, Im pretty sure I wont be playing a force user.

To be honest, if youre tired of playing MMOs, this probably wont work for you. It follows the basics that WoW has established as standard but it does have a few twists. It is, at least in its early levels more of a single player game, or at best a co-op type game. But un like WoW, where you basically smash through the early levels in constant grinding quests, SWTOR runs you through a series of class quests that tell the story of your characters developement. Of course there is grinding involved, kill 20 of these, find 15 of that etc. They wrap it around a story line and it doesnt feel like grinding. Time will tell if SWTOR will play that way on down the road but at least for the first 15 levels, I had a blast.
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« Reply #2001 on: November 28, 2011, 05:09:04 AM »

I finally hopped into a pvp match and, woah, suddenly my aging machine didn't cut it at all.  Completely unplayable.  Frame rate dropped to a crawl.  I was doing pretty well up until then, so I dropped everything down to low.  Still no go.  In one match I got 10 killing blows and saw absolutely none of them.

Sadly, that's a deal-breaker for me.  I was really enjoying the storytelling up until then. And the voice-acting is superb -- really a cut above.  Perhaps the best I've ever experienced.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #2002 on: November 28, 2011, 07:09:24 AM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on November 28, 2011, 03:50:44 AM

The Imperial Agent story line was absolutely awesome. I had a blast playing through it. I really enjoyed the Smuggler in the first beta as well, so when this thing goes live, Im pretty sure I wont be playing a force user.
I second that.  I wasn't even planning on trying the Agent.  I'm glad I did.  Great storyline, great voice acting (male), 1st companion is awesome.  I tried a few classes this weekend, completing their initial starting location, and the Agent was the best experience.   

Of the force users I found the Sith Warrior the most fun.  Leaping around kicking the crap out of stuff was rewarding.  Good voice acting too (male).  The Inquisitor should have been great, but it took a long time for the story to ramp up, and the gameplay wasn't as fun (for me) as the Warrior.  I didn't play any of the other beta events, so I can't compare to previous builds, but the 10m range on the Inquisitor's lightning attacks isn't fun.  I might as well just run up and melee.  I'm guessing Sorcerers will have a talent to extend that range?  I tried a Jedi Consular, but I didn't have the patience for the "there is no emotion", "there is no passion, only serenity" stuff.  Plus, I just couldn't bring myself to throw rocks after shooting lightning for 10 levels.

I'm still working on a Bounty Hunter, which has been fun so far.  I like their run and gun abilities...and no cover mechanic.  Just walk in and blow shit up.  I very briefly tried the BH mirror, the Trooper, and it was fun too.         
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« Reply #2003 on: November 28, 2011, 08:21:00 AM »

Quote from: Hotfreak on November 28, 2011, 05:09:04 AM

I finally hopped into a pvp match and, woah, suddenly my aging machine didn't cut it at all.  Completely unplayable.  Frame rate dropped to a crawl.  I was doing pretty well up until then, so I dropped everything down to low.  Still no go.  In one match I got 10 killing blows and saw absolutely none of them.

Sadly, that's a deal-breaker for me.  I was really enjoying the storytelling up until then. And the voice-acting is superb -- really a cut above.  Perhaps the best I've ever experienced.

I have the same problem in PvP in Rift.  Not really sure why, but I can play with very high settings normally, but everything goes completely down the dumper in PvP, IIRC I ended up reducing settings and having to reduce screen resolution  icon_cry

I think it might be too many spell effects going off at the same time.  Rift PvP was just completely unplayable at settings that worked great in normal play or in dungeon play.

I didn't get a chance to try SWTOR PvP.  In fact, I couldn't figure out how to get into it.  Is there a way to queue from anywhere, or do you have to go to a specific location?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 09:22:32 AM by ydejin » Logged
Razgon
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« Reply #2004 on: November 28, 2011, 08:22:44 AM »

I havent tried pvp yet, but did try a few flashgrounds, where we were 4 players and that went without a hitch - Are PVP battlegrounds much worse?
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« Reply #2005 on: November 28, 2011, 12:28:50 PM »

Quote
You may notice a single orange pixel on the left hand side of your screen while playing The Old Republic. Your monitor is not broken. This is a graphical error that will be removed in a future release.

I was getting that and thought I had a dead pixel.  Nice to know that isn't the case.

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« Reply #2006 on: November 28, 2011, 12:48:48 PM »

Well, I played the Jedi Consular to level 18 last night and I think I've decided to go that route when the game goes live.  Initially, I was thinking Shadow cause of the Double-bladed light saber, but I think I will go Sage as the lack of healing was noticeable during beta.
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« Reply #2007 on: November 28, 2011, 02:05:42 PM »

Although my smuggler reached L16 late last night, it turns out I'd been all but ignoring my Class Quests (just wasn't paying attention to my actual quest log; the class quest isn't labeled as such on the Tracker in the HUD per se). Once someone explained to me, I tried to catch up. I really wanted to get my ship but I just needed to get some sleep.  icon_razz I guess if I had been paying attention, I might've been able to get the ship by L14.

*Rift fans who enjoyed how that game usually put all its "meat and potatoes" questing relatively close to a hub, or at least mostly all in one area, might not be so crazy about how much running around SWTOR's questing eventually requires. Saw much general chat griping about "this is too much walking around," etc..

imho, as long as you remember to hit the taxi station and bind by the "quick travel" terminal in each area, then you can zip around pretty easily for the most part. Sprint at 14 (a toggle skill-I'd suggest assigning a hotkey to it; I use my mouse wheel button) makes it a lot less painful to get around within zones. Mount's at 25, I'm told but can really be expensive to buy.

Just from Coruscant, I can see the worlds and building interiors are crazy expansive. I can understand why they'd spread quests all over to make sure you have a reason to see all or most of it -- but I'm in favor of letting people know that sometimes you will be sent off to far away places that requires a lot of hoofing from a taxi point.  icon_smile

My quest log was crazy busy at the time I logged off yesterday (probably a dozen or more things in a few different zones). Other than bonus objectives (kill 15, 30 etc. as an optional bonus), not many were of the "Kill X" variety. That's not to say they're rocket science quests -- most are click on this, open that, activate/de-active that etc. But it was interesting enough to me -- it wasn't Dungeon Runners (kill 15,30,45, nothing else).

While the combat animations are fine, I don't think they're as much fun as say, City of Heroes or Champions Online's animations. I still enjoy watching combat in this, and the look sort of "grows on me" with repeated plays.
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« Reply #2008 on: November 28, 2011, 02:35:55 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on November 28, 2011, 12:48:48 PM

Well, I played the Jedi Consular to level 18 last night and I think I've decided to go that route when the game goes live.  Initially, I was thinking Shadow cause of the Double-bladed light saber, but I think I will go Sage as the lack of healing was noticeable during beta.

Yes, I noticed the lack of healing as well. I made it to the orbital station as Jedi Consular level 8 by mostly sticking to the main quests. Joined a group which had trooper, sentinel, and jedi knight, from levels 12-10. I was the lowest at 8. We as a group died twice from the boss on the main bridge. Mainly because none of us had the ability to heal others.
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« Reply #2009 on: November 28, 2011, 02:53:02 PM »

Quote from: raydude on November 28, 2011, 02:35:55 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on November 28, 2011, 12:48:48 PM

Well, I played the Jedi Consular to level 18 last night and I think I've decided to go that route when the game goes live.  Initially, I was thinking Shadow cause of the Double-bladed light saber, but I think I will go Sage as the lack of healing was noticeable during beta.

Yes, I noticed the lack of healing as well. I made it to the orbital station as Jedi Consular level 8 by mostly sticking to the main quests. Joined a group which had trooper, sentinel, and jedi knight, from levels 12-10. I was the lowest at 8. We as a group died twice from the boss on the main bridge. Mainly because none of us had the ability to heal others.
Do any other classes get a healing companion early on like the Bounty Hunter?  I noticed that she will heal group members too, which is really nice, especially when players can't heal yet.

Edited to add: I had a duh moment yesterday when I was looking through the general abilities tab and noticed that we get Revive Player and Revive Companion abilities.  Sure enough, they work just like a a rez.  I didn't get the chance to try it on a player, but Revive Companion worked just fine.  I must have missed the Tip for that, because I don't remember seeing any information about player/companion revives.  I would've missed them if I hadn't been poking around the general abilities tab.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 03:02:04 PM by Roguetad » Logged
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« Reply #2010 on: November 28, 2011, 03:14:17 PM »

Pre-order placed! See you all in-game on the 20th! (Or as early as they open the gates).  nod
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« Reply #2011 on: November 28, 2011, 03:47:26 PM »

I learned some new Star Wars lore this weekend playing TOR.  The Republic only recruits brown to white Zabrak, while the Empire seems especially enthusiastic about Zabrak of the red variety.  If you're a red, yellow or orange hued zabrak, the Republic is not interested in you.  Go see your local Empire recruiter.  Darth Maul hasn't been born/created yet, so I'm curious about the Republic's open selection criteria against the more flamboyent shades of Zabrak.  Seems fishy.

   
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« Reply #2012 on: November 28, 2011, 04:06:36 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on November 28, 2011, 02:53:02 PM

Edited to add: I had a duh moment yesterday when I was looking through the general abilities tab and noticed that we get Revive Player and Revive Companion abilities.  Sure enough, they work just like a a rez.  I didn't get the chance to try it on a player, but Revive Companion worked just fine.  I must have missed the Tip for that, because I don't remember seeing any information about player/companion revives.  I would've missed them if I hadn't been poking around the general abilities tab.

OMG! I guess it wasn't one of the default abilities on the task bar, because I was looking frantically there to see if I could do anything to help heal during the flashpoint. They should make a "helpful" popup tooltip pop up when your companion needs reviving during the pre-flashpoint missions. And for that matter, work it into the story so that your first companion does need reviving so you can get used to opening the abilities window and moving the "revive companion/party member" ability onto the taskbar.
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« Reply #2013 on: November 28, 2011, 04:34:30 PM »

The revive companion/player tooltip does pop up when your companion or group mate falls.
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« Reply #2014 on: November 28, 2011, 05:05:15 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 27, 2011, 07:37:30 PM

Quote from: Arclight on November 27, 2011, 06:48:32 PM

Wearing those huge aviator sunglasses, while you go tanning BJ? nod
I noticed that -- it's some weird lighting effect in certain environments.
Actually it's part of the "complexion" attribute in character selection.
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« Reply #2015 on: November 28, 2011, 05:10:02 PM »

Quote from: Soulchilde on November 27, 2011, 09:50:43 PM

-Maybe my google-fu is failing me but at what levels do you get your companions?  I know you get your first at level 7-8 and get you droid at 15-16 when you get your ship, but what levels do you acquire the rest?  

It's different for different classes. Also, it's not level-dependent, it's where you're at in the story. For me on my Sith Sorcerer, I got my first companion around 8-9. I got the droid when I got my ship at 17. I got my next companion at 25-26ish. Then another around 36. Then another around 43. Then the last one at 49. But I tend to be over-leveled by a large margin because I PvP a lot.
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« Reply #2016 on: November 28, 2011, 05:59:13 PM »

Well, there wasn't anything for me to do at work today and I was told to stay home today. The bad news is I miss a days pay. The good news is I am getting to spend some quality time with SWTOR!

I'm sticking to a Jedi Knight and so far I'm really enjoying it. I don't usually play MMO's, but this is getting it's hooks into me. I want to try the other classes, but since the beta is only good for the rest of today I figure I will spend as much time with this character as possible. I'm up to level 9, and just experienced my first crash to desktop. There are also points in the game where my framerate drops to under 10 and the game becomes a slideshow, but for the most part it is running as smooth as I can expect with my current specs. The Jedi Temple seems to be an area where my framerate consistently dips.
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« Reply #2017 on: November 28, 2011, 06:00:08 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on November 28, 2011, 05:05:15 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on November 27, 2011, 07:37:30 PM

Quote from: Arclight on November 27, 2011, 06:48:32 PM

Wearing those huge aviator sunglasses, while you go tanning BJ? nod
I noticed that -- it's some weird lighting effect in certain environments.
Actually it's part of the "complexion" attribute in character selection.
Really? What, mine was set to "my character was running around Tattoine wearing goggles for years"?  smirk Thanks though - will make a note to check that next time.

In a way, I'm glad I just stuck with my Smuggler and kept most of the game "fresh." Although that's not something I fret about too much. I mean, I ran a Smuggler to 12 or so the first weekend, and 16 this time and it felt fun both times. Although I suspect I'll be happier as a Gunslinger, the constant pleas for "need a healer" for Heroic Quests suggests a Scoundrel with some healing might be more popular for groups.

As far as little beefs I think I could be remedied with a little tweaking (these are all things I or others were constantly asking):
*It's clearly NOT intuitive how to resummon your companion if he's fallen or you accidentally dismissed him. "Right clicking on the empty companion 'portrait circle' in the lower left" or "left clicking the tiny stick figure head button in the lower left" (it's gotta be, what, 5 pixels? It's microscopic at 1920X1080 rez) is just not intuitive imho.

I was explaining that to people in general chat a couple of times, after it was explained to me in the previous test. Why not just have an optional text button there that says "resummon companion"? I'm not a big fan at all of tiny, baffling icons, or traffic signs for that matter.  confused
=============
*I wish they would label "class quests" as such in the quest tracker in your HUD. I didn't look at my Quest Log hardly at all, but that's the only place where I'd realize something was a class quest (and as such, necessary to being able to make my advanced class choice, get my ship, etc.). To be fair, my class tracker was full of all sorts of other quests, many of which sounded interesting. So my mind simply wasn't on "class quests" until someone pointed out to me that I could've had a ship at 14 if I'd been paying attention.  icon_redface

And perhaps if you visit your advanced class trainer too early (i.e., you missed the NPC that gives you a quest to direct you there, and make your advanced class choice), they could have the trainer prompt you, "Hey, I'd love to talk to you but you need to visit with blah blah NPC first."

Now I'm sure once I play the full game and go through it all with more focus on Class Quests in the Log, I'll be fine. I just think a bit more direction would result in fewer players in general chat sounding lost about "Where's my advanced class trainer? How do I get my advanced class choice? etc."
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« Reply #2018 on: November 28, 2011, 06:42:06 PM »

I played the beta a bit this weekend, but trying not to spoil things for myself.  I made a Jedi Knight thinking I would go Trooper on launch, but I really loved the combat mechanics of the Jedi Knight.  I will probably still go Trooper, but I think this will be the first MMO where I actually make alts because I want to experience all the different stories.  Very excited for launch on this game.
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« Reply #2019 on: November 28, 2011, 06:57:13 PM »

Hmmm, I was posting my skills tree (from advanced class trainer, when you make smuggler's AC choice) at another forum and when I reviewed it, I think it's a BUG! It's displaying the Scoundrel's skills tree as the Gunslinger's!  saywhat


Although it worked fine when I chose gunslinger (it gave me the correct skills tree) as my choice.
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« Reply #2020 on: November 28, 2011, 07:29:08 PM »

Saw a clarification about what server "early deployment" guilds will be placed on. While the game will "suggest" a server to meet your guild's stated preferences (e.g., PVE, East Coast server for the one I set up), you can choose to decline that and choose any server, provided your guild name isn't already taken.

I don't suspect Gaming Trend Heroes or Gaming Trend Villains will be terribly popular names other folks would come up with, so I think we're safe and should have flexibility what servers we want to be on.

From the pre-order FAQ about guilds:
http://www.swtor.com/guilds/faq#q3
Quote
My guild doesn’t want to be assigned to a server. Will we be able to choose our own?

While guilds that have been imported will be offered a reserved place on a server, guilds are free to decline the invite and create their guild on any server they wish (assuming the guild’s name is available on that server).

And a little more clarification on early deployment:
Quote
What is Phase 3: Deployment?

During this phase, guilds that meet certain criteria will be transferred into the game. Your guild’s mini-site and forums will remain available on the website. However, guild creation and administration features will be removed from the website and moved in-game.

Shortly before Early Game Access begins, we will be bringing an end to the Pre-Launch Guild Program as we prepare guilds for import into the game. All guilds will be notified via email a week before the Pre-Launch Guild Program comes to a close.

*We will make reasonable efforts to ensure that qualifying guilds are imported into a server that meets your specified preferences, but we cannot make any guarantees given the anticipated volume of guilds (among other factors). All server placements therefore remain in our sole discretion. We also cannot take responsibility for technical errors or glitches that prevent your guild from importing into the game as planned. See Terms of Service for more details.
Again, they'll just suggest a server that meets our preferences, but we can reject that and choose our own. I guess the only thing that concerns me is whether one East Coast server might seem less lag prone than another. That may not be something we can really tell until the full launch though.
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« Reply #2021 on: November 28, 2011, 07:44:19 PM »

Cross posted from Wanderers board, some first impressions from a SWTOR virgin:

Quote
So I caved and joined the weekend beta test for a few limited hours to get a taste of the SWTOR magic.

Very first impressions - the game wouldn't run. Oops. Adjusted to compatibility mode and away we go. The opening cinematics were fantastic and very enjoyable. Great Star Wars/Bioware feel and a lot of fun to watch the various lightsaber duels and Jedi power matchups, etc. as well as get introduced to some interesting characters who I assume will show up in some form or another later.

On the technical side, everything was good. Graphics were decent for an MMO, and I faced no lag or queues (though I just picked some random server). Everything ran smoothly and I experienced no buggy behavior. The interface seemed OK (at least I was able to change hotkeys to what I prefer). Given there's still 3 weeks til release, the stability and shape of the (early) game seemed very good.

On the gameplay side, I started getting into the storyline, which felt very comfortable in a Bioware-esque way. The voice acting, story progression, dialog - all top notch rivaling Dragon Age in quality. Everything was going fine until I ventured out on my first big mission. Without getting into spoiler territory, I'm this important padawan and they need me to take care of some very specific stuff as part of my training - but also as part of everything going on in a bigger storyline. Good enough, I'm excited! Until I see the guy next to me DOING THE EXACT SAME THING as me, ugh. So much for immersion. And so it goes, I try to stay immersed while "Arya" jumps around next to me doing everything I do. Sometimes in true MMO fashion, we even compete for the same spot. I see mobs and prisoners reset after I kill/free them, and sigh. It's MMORPG 101 again.

So exactly as I feared, this game really has to be accepted for what it is to enjoy it - a watered down version of a "real" Bioware story game that forcibly crams in conventional MMORPG mechanics, not for any gameplay reason but solely so Bioware can sell out and make money. It saddens and disappoints me, because I really hoped for better from them, and I think they would have made a much more immersive game without the MMORPG elements. Admittedly it's nice to see a lively world filled with lots of others running around, but every time they remind me that I'm actually in a traditional MMORPG with their behavior or their name or their speech, I long for the single player goodness of Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

That said, they do so many things right, I'm pretty sure this game will be a big success and give WoW a run for the money. The Star Wars universe is always great, and there's plenty of Star Wars feel to the game. I definitely got a kick out of force powers and lightsabers, speeders, etc.

I suppose I will ultimately view (and probably even play) this game 2 distinct ways. Ignore everyone else and play it as a single player Bioware story game, I'll likely do this on some random server. Or ignore the story elements and play it as a conventional MMO, which is what I'll likely do wherever/whatever the guild chooses to go.

Overall: really mixed feelings.
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« Reply #2022 on: November 28, 2011, 08:23:35 PM »

Well, c'mon -- that's like going into a genre with a stacked deck of "this is why I won't like it" on one's list and then going "ah ha! just like I thought" repeatedly. He seems to hate the whole genre and all of its conventions -- I would've told that guy to steer clear of this game altogether.

SWTOR, despite all the paint and fancy spoilers and trims and doodads (voices, group conversation rolls, companions running all over the galaxy doing things for you etc.), is a traditional mmorpg. I don't mean that as an insult -- it's the most fun traditional mmorpg I've played in a long time. I never liked WoW, and I stopped playing mmorpgs months ago. I spent maybe 12-14-16 hours playing and had a good time. I'm very optimistic, if realistic.  icon_smile

I will whine about this -- I don't mind that a few other players in a world instance will be doing the same stuff as me. I DO mind that people constantly sneak in and "steal" your objective glowie while you're battling the mob that was protecting it.

I literally saw people just standing there, waiting for me to "clear" a glowie by attacking a nearby mob, then swooping in. Which forces me to either find something else, or wait around for the glowie to respawn, by which time the mob respawns. Then I tackle the mob, and some other jerk sneaks in and takes it. And so it goes...

Why not find some way to sort of "tie" the glowie to whomever's battling the mob next to it? Probably you could exploit that, but is it any less exploitive for other players to be waiting for you to "do the work" so they can take a quest objective? Repeatedly? I think that's the one lingering problem I have with mmorpgs not heavy on instancing.

People say they want a "open world mmorpg" where they're adventuring around other players, but generally it either leads to the crap I'm complaining about, or people lining up 5-6-7 in a row to complete the same quest. I called that "deli line quests" in Tabula Rasa, because you felt like you should take a number.  icon_razz

The only thing that let me put up with that was my quest tracker being clogged with different things to do, I could say "screw this" and go do something else for a while.
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« Reply #2023 on: November 28, 2011, 08:54:22 PM »

That will only be an issue in the first month or so, BJ - After that, levels will be spread out sufficiently that it will happen rarely.
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« Reply #2024 on: November 28, 2011, 09:07:06 PM »

Normally people swooping in like vultures to seize the quest objective I had been fighting for makes me nerd rage, but when it happened while I was playing a sith inquisitor, I just figured that's exactly what another sith would do.  Typically what I will do though (in other games) is become stupidly immature myself, follow them around for a bit while they continue their efforts to collect quest items, wait until they get attacked, and then steal their collectables.  I do that until I complete my quest, or until they send me a tell.  I enjoy the payback.  See, I'm exactly the wrong type of person for mmos lol. 

The truth of the matter is that the person doing it is probablly an 8 year old playing one of their dad's characters, and has no idea that what they're doing pisses people off.     
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rittchard
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« Reply #2025 on: November 28, 2011, 09:15:06 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 28, 2011, 08:23:35 PM

Well, c'mon -- that's like going into a genre with a stacked deck of "this is why I won't like it" on one's list and then going "ah ha! just like I thought" repeatedly. He seems to hate the whole genre and all of its conventions -- I would've told that guy to steer clear of this game altogether.

That guy is ME, I guess I wasn't clear on that  icon_wink

I don't hate the whole MMORPG genre and its conventions - lord knows I've played/tried so many of them (and continue to try new ones), and I actually enjoy old-school style MMORPGs every now and again.  Games like Perfect World or Runes of Magic are completely enjoyable in their own way.  But with these I have no expectation of a deep, involving and immersive plotline.  SWTOR is advertised to be a story-driven game.  I had hopes Bioware might be able to use some clever instancing tricks or something slightly new/different to keep focus on the story and make the conventional stuff less egregious or distracting, but from what I can tell, they simply did not.  The whole respawn business you talk about is just another good example of forcing in a conventional mechanic and making the story-driven portion worse than it had to be.

So ultimately my problem with this game is that it IS from Bioware, which has produced some of my all-time favorite games.  I expect more from them based on their track record.  Can you honestly say this game is better off in telling its story because it added MMORPG conventions such as the respawn crap you mentioned?  Can you imagine things like that in the middle of Mass Effect or Dragon Age?  
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« Reply #2026 on: November 28, 2011, 09:28:58 PM »

To your point Rittchard, I haven't decided yet if I like other players in my Bioware experience.  It's too early after just one weekend.  There's a lot of that Bioware magic in this game to pull me in.  The question for myself is will the mmo part of the game make the overall experience better, or take away from the story I'm trying to play?  I agree with our early beta testers, and find it really weird to see a bunch of Khem Vals running around, or Vettes, or Makos.  The customization is nice, but there they are...and it's a downside to this experiment.  With that said, if they didn't have the deep pockets of cash banking on a great MMO return, I don't think we would have 20+ companions for 8 classes, all with their own spoken dialogue. 

You mentioned earlier 2 approaches to playing the game.  I think I will be primarily playing a SP experience, and group up whenever we have people that want to do that.  I don't want to rush through this game though, and I always feel rushed when grouping with other players I don't know that well.   
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« Reply #2027 on: November 28, 2011, 09:42:58 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on November 28, 2011, 09:15:06 PM

So ultimately my problem with this game is that it IS from Bioware, which has produced some of my all-time favorite games.  I expect more from them based on their track record.  Can you honestly say this game is better off in telling its story because it added MMORPG conventions such as the respawn crap you mentioned?  Can you imagine things like that in the middle of Mass Effect or Dragon Age?  

Are you approaching this game as a Bioware RPG with MMO conventions tacked on, or as a traditional MMO with Bioware RPG conventions tacked on?

I've never for a second expected that SWTOR would be anything OTHER than a traditional MMO.  The addition of dialog choices, companions, strong story, and voice acting are the pieces where Bioware is attempting to make their small changes to the existing formula.

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« Reply #2028 on: November 28, 2011, 10:00:13 PM »

Quote from: RLMullen on November 28, 2011, 09:42:58 PM

Are you approaching this game as a Bioware RPG with MMO conventions tacked on, or as a traditional MMO with Bioware RPG conventions tacked on?

I've never for a second expected that SWTOR would be anything OTHER than a traditional MMO.  The addition of dialog choices, companions, strong story, and voice acting are the pieces where Bioware is attempting to make their small changes to the existing formula.

This was my immediate thought and response to rittchard's post, as well. Sure, I'd like a game where the emphases were reversed but I never expected this to be that game and I'm not disappointed that it isn't.

- Ash
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« Reply #2029 on: November 28, 2011, 10:04:51 PM »

Thankfully, the deli line is also an ephemeral feature.  It's never as bad as it is at launch (or beta).  

From what I saw, I agree with Rittchard without, I think, having the same level of disappointment.  It's a mix-up of the genres.  And each just seems to get out of the other's way, at best, rather than integrate immersively.  Neither implementation is that breathtaking -- nor I might add, are they bad.

That said, from 1-10, the traditional single-player elements seem stronger to me than the MMO elements.  I chatted a lot with a couple of affable beta vets while tooling around the various planets and they all seemed to agree that that trend continues into later levels.

The voice-acting is uniformly great, I must say, to end on a positive note.  I'm almost always convinced by the characters.
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« Reply #2030 on: November 28, 2011, 10:30:33 PM »

Quote from: Asharak on November 28, 2011, 10:00:13 PM

Quote from: RLMullen on November 28, 2011, 09:42:58 PM

Are you approaching this game as a Bioware RPG with MMO conventions tacked on, or as a traditional MMO with Bioware RPG conventions tacked on?

I've never for a second expected that SWTOR would be anything OTHER than a traditional MMO.  The addition of dialog choices, companions, strong story, and voice acting are the pieces where Bioware is attempting to make their small changes to the existing formula.

This was my immediate thought and response to rittchard's post, as well. Sure, I'd like a game where the emphases were reversed but I never expected this to be that game and I'm not disappointed that it isn't.

- Ash

As a point of conversation on all of this... in my opinion, an rpg approach, with mmo conventions tacked on, and you get... Guild Wars. Which is of course good in its own way.

Atomic
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« Reply #2031 on: November 28, 2011, 11:15:04 PM »

I haven't played over the week-end much at all. Not because of any technical reason, but lack of desire. eek

It wasn't for trying though. Played equally between the factions. Played equally between the classes. Highest I got was around 8 or 9. The rest I got past 5. And so I realize that a beta does not a game make.
But I've kicked around these woods long enough to know a few things intuitively.

The game will get better. A given. But greatness will never be found in this MMO I'd wager. The usual suspects of annoyance in a MMO are all there. UI...graphics...animations....crafting(only what I've heard) end game is suspect, which usually means, raiding and PvP for gear...dead enviroments...Very rigid, static NPC standing around in 2's and 3's their lips are moving but they aint saying a word.

Usual suspects all there, yep indeed. But for me there are alot of intangibles that are AWOL. Atmosphere is prozak bland. The environs feel dead and lifeless to the enth degree. Other than the story telling and cut-scene-voice overs, most of the game I saw was a C-.
I actually laughed out loud when I went through the available character creation options. It reminded me of the Clone war commercials I've seen.(never watched a single episode) cartoony and silly looking. I've noticed bobble-headed characters running around..City of Heroes Brute like ones...Just terrible character looks and animations to go along with the uglies.

Over a 100 million smack-a-roo's and years in the oven, and this is what we get? BW can now add this to Dragon Age-2, to have book-ends of flops.
Is it too early to call it a flop? Yeah, probably. But again, my gut is telling me that this is going the way of Rift, and others. It will start out with a BANG!!! and within a few months it will fizzle off most vet-MMO players radar.
FTP in 18 months.

The good looking guy from Wasaga-Beach gives this two little toes down.....A solid 4 out of 10.  More green tomatoes than red..........A woof-woof.....But this of course is just "IMHO" thumbsdown
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 11:18:23 PM by Arclight » Logged

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« Reply #2032 on: November 29, 2011, 12:10:41 AM »

Arc, I think you may be underestimating the power of the force -- this game will be around for a while regardless just due to it being a Star Wars game.

That being said, in my beta testing experience, I've leveled my bounty hunter to 10 and I've been drawn in primarily by the single player storyline -- essentially the class quests where you enter your own "green" instances.  There have been a number of cool unexpected interactions with NPCs, and the voice acting has been top notch.  So if that continues into the later levels, I'll be pretty entertained by the game.

That being said, in leveling up to 10 I've only had to group twice.  Once to run through a heroic factory, and another time to tackle a heroic monster in an area.  I kind of wish the game had some "public quests" like you see in Warhammer Online or Rift -- it would help bring people together in the early levels.  I haven't yet gone in any dungeons or done any PvP so I'm not sure how that impacts things at later levels.
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« Reply #2033 on: November 29, 2011, 01:11:56 AM »

Quote from: Arclight on November 28, 2011, 11:15:04 PM

I haven't played over the week-end much at all. Not because of any technical reason, but lack of desire. eek

It wasn't for trying though. Played equally between the factions. Played equally between the classes. Highest I got was around 8 or 9. The rest I got past 5. And so I realize that a beta does not a game make.
But I've kicked around these woods long enough to know a few things intuitively.

The game will get better. A given. But greatness will never be found in this MMO I'd wager. The usual suspects of annoyance in a MMO are all there. UI...graphics...animations....crafting(only what I've heard) end game is suspect, which usually means, raiding and PvP for gear...dead enviroments...Very rigid, static NPC standing around in 2's and 3's their lips are moving but they aint saying a word.

Usual suspects all there, yep indeed. But for me there are alot of intangibles that are AWOL. Atmosphere is prozak bland. The environs feel dead and lifeless to the enth degree. Other than the story telling and cut-scene-voice overs, most of the game I saw was a C-.
I actually laughed out loud when I went through the available character creation options. It reminded me of the Clone war commercials I've seen.(never watched a single episode) cartoony and silly looking. I've noticed bobble-headed characters running around..City of Heroes Brute like ones...Just terrible character looks and animations to go along with the uglies.

Over a 100 million smack-a-roo's and years in the oven, and this is what we get? BW can now add this to Dragon Age-2, to have book-ends of flops.
Is it too early to call it a flop? Yeah, probably. But again, my gut is telling me that this is going the way of Rift, and others. It will start out with a BANG!!! and within a few months it will fizzle off most vet-MMO players radar.
FTP in 18 months.

The good looking guy from Wasaga-Beach gives this two little toes down.....A solid 4 out of 10.  More green tomatoes than red..........A woof-woof.....But this of course is just "IMHO" thumbsdown

Only thing I disagree with is that prozac is bland.

Of course, playing to level 12 on a couple of characters (me) doesn't necessarily give me much perspective.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 01:14:14 AM by Hotfreak » Logged

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« Reply #2034 on: November 29, 2011, 01:14:11 AM »

I have a feeling the game will probably fizzle in a few months as well.  It's a great game, and i'm really enjoying it.  The story stuff is really well done.  The problem I foresee is it really seems focused on the single player aspects more than the MMO stuff.  My individual story is great, but what is the overall world story?  What is there to invest my character in this universe long term?  Maybe that stuff shows up later in the story and will prove me wrong, I hope so.

I played several classes up to almost 10 in beta, really enjoyed the gameplay and story, I just have a feeling once my story is done so am I.  
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« Reply #2035 on: November 29, 2011, 01:15:06 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on November 28, 2011, 08:23:35 PM

Well, c'mon -- that's like going into a genre with a stacked deck of "this is why I won't like it" on one's list and then going "ah ha! just like I thought" repeatedly. He seems to hate the whole genre and all of its conventions -- I would've told that guy to steer clear of this game altogether.

SWTOR, despite all the paint and fancy spoilers and trims and doodads (voices, group conversation rolls, companions running all over the galaxy doing things for you etc.), is a traditional mmorpg. I don't mean that as an insult -- it's the most fun traditional mmorpg I've played in a long time. I never liked WoW, and I stopped playing mmorpgs months ago. I spent maybe 12-14-16 hours playing and had a good time. I'm very optimistic, if realistic.  icon_smile

I will whine about this -- I don't mind that a few other players in a world instance will be doing the same stuff as me. I DO mind that people constantly sneak in and "steal" your objective glowie while you're battling the mob that was protecting it.

I literally saw people just standing there, waiting for me to "clear" a glowie by attacking a nearby mob, then swooping in. Which forces me to either find something else, or wait around for the glowie to respawn, by which time the mob respawns. Then I tackle the mob, and some other jerk sneaks in and takes it. And so it goes...

Why not find some way to sort of "tie" the glowie to whomever's battling the mob next to it? Probably you could exploit that, but is it any less exploitive for other players to be waiting for you to "do the work" so they can take a quest objective? Repeatedly? I think that's the one lingering problem I have with mmorpgs not heavy on instancing.

People say they want a "open world mmorpg" where they're adventuring around other players, but generally it either leads to the crap I'm complaining about, or people lining up 5-6-7 in a row to complete the same quest. I called that "deli line quests" in Tabula Rasa, because you felt like you should take a number.  icon_razz

The only thing that let me put up with that was my quest tracker being clogged with different things to do, I could say "screw this" and go do something else for a while.

Personally I strongly prefer more instancing.  I hate waiting in line for stuff, and would be really pissed if someone stole items associated with my kill.
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« Reply #2036 on: November 29, 2011, 02:01:26 AM »

WTF? I thought the beta was OVER! I just logged in! When does it officially end?  icon_smile

Stupid me. I'm told the server will be up until about 11:59 p.m. Central (12:59 a.m. EST). I've got a few more hours to put in.  icon_biggrin
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 02:06:33 AM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #2037 on: November 29, 2011, 02:23:35 AM »

Just went through the first flashpoint with a PUG. They were pretty cool. It was 2 troopers, a sage, and myself as consular (level 8 so no advanced class yet). It was great that the trooper players chose the "macho rambo" type responses, the sage a more "jedi non-passionate" response, and myself with the "ultra save everyone" choices. We all had a chance to see our characters respond and seeing the trooper macho responses was hilarious.

I can see grouped missions being fun with the right group of people, which would then add to the fun factor of playing the game. The PUG seemed to be easy going folk who just wanted to experience the game instead of power-leveling and grinding. so much chatter and LOLing going on. I can only hope my PUG experience in the full game is as good. I guess that's what the GT guild is for smile.
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« Reply #2038 on: November 29, 2011, 06:08:18 AM »

That concludes their weekend beta testing. No more weekends. Us regular testers will be able to continue playing sometime later this week when they release their final launch build.
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« Reply #2039 on: November 29, 2011, 06:14:17 AM »

I put in a few more hours, and did a rather fast run through of the second Flashpoint, Hammer Station. We had a couple Jedi guys in their early 20s that were overqualified. It's reasonably fun. It's not some epic, take forever thing like a City of Heroes Task Force. The Flashpoints are actually reminding me of some of Tabula Rasa's "dungeon" instances, and I don't mean that as a bad thing.  icon_smile

Like I always do in MMOs, I ran into some tank player chewing out "the healer" (a scoundrel smuggler) for not avoiding the splashy boss attacks that you're warned about. It does take a while to understand that those giant circles on the ground are warnings to move away.

I also had a very frustrating time trying to join a team in a Heroic quest in some Jedi Temple. Try as we might we could not all get "transported" to the same world instance. We simply couldn't see each other. I don't know if that's a lag bug or some issue with the instancing system.
==============================

On the bright side, I finally got my ship!

*You use ship upgrades just by right clicking the inventory item. The armor was a reward item. I finally got used to Bioware's obsession with tabs on every UI panel. When I was wondering how to upgrade my ship, I thought, "I bet it's a tab!"...



*The space missions are reasonably entertaining imho. I wouldn't have necessarily wanted "total space freedom," but something with a reasonable amount of freedom within a confined "space instance" that at least let me feel like I was doing some actual steering and could approach objectives in different order would've been fun imho, without turning it into a hardcore space sim. As it is, it really feels like you're just riding some crazy space rollercoaster, and you're trying desperately to aim straight.


Lastly, a peek at the auction house and my Gunslinger's last pair of pistols.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 06:16:01 AM by Blackjack » Logged

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