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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced  (Read 124488 times)
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Razgon
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« Reply #440 on: July 03, 2010, 11:49:27 AM »

The thing is, by now investors must have realized that what seems like a good idea, to reskin wow and use your own universe, maybe just isnt such a great idea after all... I mean - can you mention a game where that went well? Warhammer didnt, age of Conan didnt, Lotro didnt...

All did moderately well (at first), but are now probably not the cash-cows people expected by modelling their game on the way wow makes its game. And they all had impressive backdrops even
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« Reply #441 on: July 03, 2010, 03:19:08 PM »

I agree with where you're coming from.  Did you notice though that all the MMO's you mentioned are fantasy based? At least TOR is out of that mold.  With a project like TOR, I just dont seeing them taking major risks.  I can almost hear the money people saying, " Its StarWars, it will print money based on the name alone"  Regardless of whether thats true or even rational, I just get the feeling that they are going to rely on a tried and true formula and hope that the Star Wars setting makes it something special.
 Regarding innovation in MMO's I believe that for something truly innovative to show up, it will probably have to be on a lesser, almost indie developed scale.  If it proves to be successful, then maybe a major development company will buy it out and run with it.  Major corporations tend to avoid risk.  Look at Blizzard, what have they done thats new in the last 15 years?  Hey look, StarCraft II is coming out and soon we will have a new Diablo!!!  Heck their most successful idea was to turn a popular RTS game into an MMO.   Bioware had Dragons Age, that was totally new!  UH really?  Good game but I think they could have called it Dungeons and Dragons Age without missing a beat if it wasn't for Wizards of the Coast.  I guess my point is that the major gaming studios havent been innovative for decades, they just try to improve on what came before.
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« Reply #442 on: July 03, 2010, 08:52:38 PM »

I don't mind the direction Bioware is going. But that's a good thing I guess because just how else is there to make a MMO? You need those classes. I sat last night and tried to picture myself creating a new MMO. But I couldn't come up with even one idea that hasn't been used before.  It just doesn't work to say...lets get rid of the 'tank' class and let that player fart flowers out his butt instead. hehe just joking but really...how else can you make an MMO?
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« Reply #443 on: July 03, 2010, 08:56:50 PM »

Quote from: ydejin on July 03, 2010, 06:15:12 AM

Quote from: tcweidner on July 03, 2010, 04:32:01 AM

looks horrid, looks like every other game out there.  count me as totally underwhelmed.

In general the game looks a lot like Bioware's single player RPGs, which I've enjoyed a great deal.  The combat looks better than KotOR combat for sure.  It's not a shooter ala Mass Effect, but the combat looks like a reasonable mix of RPG and Action.  I'm still very excited to see this come out, even though I've been rather meh on Star Wars since the prequels (I grew up loving the original trilogy).

even if it's going to be like Kotor I can deal with that.
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« Reply #444 on: July 03, 2010, 08:57:22 PM »

Quote from: Daehawk on July 03, 2010, 08:52:38 PM

I don't mind the direction Bioware is going. But that's a good thing I guess because just how else is there to make a MMO? You need those classes. I sat last night and tried to picture myself creating a new MMO. But I couldn't come up with even one idea that hasn't been used before.  It just doesn't work to say...lets get rid of the 'tank' class and let that player fart flowers out his butt instead. hehe just joking but really...how else can you make an MMO?

but thats exactly the issue - neither you nor me are being paid to make a new MMO, so screw what we know or dont know. But there are people who are paid a LOT of money to make new MMOs, and if they try to compete with WoW on their own home turf, they are going to get royally booted... So we have a game thats basically wow reskinned (most MMO's are, due to it being their great inspiration), and all that sets it apart, its Unique Selling Point is the starwars setting... you have to ask yourself - is that enough?

it wasnt for the last three big games that tried...they dried out after a while, and are now desperately carving out their own place, but loosing players to every new game out there.
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« Reply #445 on: July 03, 2010, 10:43:31 PM »

Quote from: Daehawk on July 03, 2010, 08:52:38 PM

let that player fart flowers out his butt

I heard that is a Consular power at later levels, be careful using it though, it generates a crap ton of aggro!    eek
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« Reply #446 on: July 04, 2010, 12:11:09 AM »

Quote from: Daehawk on July 03, 2010, 08:52:38 PM

how else can you make an MMO?

I just want them to not make healing the most important thing in the world. WoW sucked for that - there were countless raids, whether they were 40 man, 25, 10 or even 5 that were canceled or just royally screwed over because of not enough healing. And why is there not enough healing? Because healing sucks. It's a rare person who wants his gameplay to revolve around keeping the party alive instead of attacking an enemy, not to mention not being able to go toe-to-toe with another player because their attack isn't good.
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« Reply #447 on: July 04, 2010, 12:23:00 AM »

I can agree with the healing mechanic. Low down time or being able to self heal is important. I don't like needing a healer or having to sit idle while my health rises.
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« Reply #448 on: July 04, 2010, 12:36:29 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on July 03, 2010, 12:59:21 AM

Quote from: Daehawk on July 02, 2010, 11:19:48 PM

Blah blah blah. More of the same. Grump grump grump. Devs mostly worked on SOE titles, what do you expect? Blah blah blah. Oh it's Bioware, they're perfect, it doesn't matter what it seems like now blah blah blah. It's just WoW with light sabers and blasters Yada yada yada It's like level 10, of course it looks basic, it'll be amazing at higher levels yap yap yap.

I think that covers all the bases. I've saved so much forum bandwidth! icon_smile

looks like an Oblivion mod to me  Tongue
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« Reply #449 on: July 04, 2010, 01:22:58 AM »

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classes. I sat last night and tried to picture myself creating a new MMO. But I couldn't come up with even one idea that hasn't been used before
oh common,  that's like sitting in 1930 cinema and saying,  geeze, I guess all the good movies ideas are used and done.

Please, I could and can easily come up with various systems for a MMO, that doesnt use the tired trinity and class set up.  It truly PATHETIC that this mold hasn't been broken.  I mean we have actually been going backwards since Ultima.

As some have said, its the money that is causing this stagnation.  Games takes money, and money people dont want to take risk.   SO we get shitty games, and people lose money anyway.

Gaming and software is getting hammered right now in this economy,  without innovation that will continue.
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« Reply #450 on: July 04, 2010, 01:58:01 AM »

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I mean we have actually been going backwards since Ultima.

I've always said this. UO is still the best ever. Skills based and PvP. Want a bow? Get an axe, chop a tree, form the arrows, kill a bird, pluck the feathers, finish the arrows. there ya go. I used to just spends days making furniture for houses, decorating my inn, killing other players, breaking into and robbing houses/stores. Great fun. I miss those days. But I'm still looking forward to TOR.
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« Reply #451 on: July 04, 2010, 02:22:58 AM »

Quote from: tcweidner on July 04, 2010, 01:22:58 AM

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classes. I sat last night and tried to picture myself creating a new MMO. But I couldn't come up with even one idea that hasn't been used before

Please, I could and can easily come up with various systems for a MMO, that doesnt use the tired trinity and class set up.  It truly PATHETIC that this mold hasn't been broken.  I mean we have actually been going backwards since Ultima.


Please enlighten us as to the various systems you can easily come up with then.  I think you will find that it is a much more complex issue than you realize, once you take into consideration things such as encounter balance, competitive balance, group play vs. solo play, PvP, raids etc...

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« Reply #452 on: July 04, 2010, 03:13:01 AM »

I think they should ditch the graphics and make it all text based; that'll teach that damned mold  *Fist Shaking*
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« Reply #453 on: July 04, 2010, 03:26:58 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 04, 2010, 03:13:01 AM

I think they should ditch the graphics and make it all text based; that'll teach that damned mold  *Fist Shaking*

I think that's been done before CeeKay.  That's not breaking the mold, that's going back to an earlier mold.

The closest I've seen to something which is still an RPG-style MMO and that looks different is Funcom's upcoming The Secret World.  They are going class-less and level-less.
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« Reply #454 on: July 04, 2010, 03:36:16 AM »

Quote from: ydejin on July 04, 2010, 03:26:58 AM

The closest I've seen to something which is still an RPG-style MMO and that looks different is Funcom's upcoming The Secret World.  They are going class-less and level-less.

isn't that system what Ultima Online was (and may still be, haven't checked it out in awhile) and what Darkfall is using?
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« Reply #455 on: July 04, 2010, 04:04:02 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 04, 2010, 03:36:16 AM

Quote from: ydejin on July 04, 2010, 03:26:58 AM

The closest I've seen to something which is still an RPG-style MMO and that looks different is Funcom's upcoming The Secret World.  They are going class-less and level-less.

isn't that system what Ultima Online was (and may still be, haven't checked it out in awhile) and what Darkfall is using?

Could be, I haven't played either of those, and know one knows for sure how The Secret World's system is going to work.  Some have speculated that it will be like Oblivion where using skills will level them up.  That's not my impression though from what they've said.  They've talked a bit about how a player's skills are like a deck of cards from a CCG, which might imply that you get different skills as mission rewards. They've said that before a mission you can go through and pick which of your skills you want to bring into the mission.  You'll have a lots of different skills that you've learned over the course of your career and you'll be able to pick 7 active skills and 7 passive skills to use for any given mission.  We'll have to wait and see what it really looks like.  Anyway, it's definitely not WoW-like -- at least not in this aspect.

I'm actually mostly looking forward to it for the setting.  Modern world but with X-Files / Buffy the Vampire Slayer-type "weird supernatural stuff is going on under the surface" vibes, and the Templars, Illuminati, and Dragon fighting to protect the world and squabbling amongst each other for ultimate control.
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« Reply #456 on: July 04, 2010, 04:07:57 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on July 04, 2010, 01:22:58 AM

Quote
classes. I sat last night and tried to picture myself creating a new MMO. But I couldn't come up with even one idea that hasn't been used before
oh common,  that's like sitting in 1930 cinema and saying,  geeze, I guess all the good movies ideas are used and done.

Please, I could and can easily come up with various systems for a MMO, that doesnt use the tired trinity and class set up.  It truly PATHETIC that this mold hasn't been broken.  I mean we have actually been going backwards since Ultima.

As some have said, its the money that is causing this stagnation.  Games takes money, and money people dont want to take risk.   SO we get shitty games, and people lose money anyway.

Gaming and software is getting hammered right now in this economy,  without innovation that will continue.

I would be interested in hearing these as well.  The holy trinity is the basis of group RPGing.  It is it's very core.  Damage dealer, damage soaker and damage negater.  I suppose you could make everyone able to tank, deal massive amounts of damage and heal at will but I would find that insanely boring.  IMO mmorpgs are at their best when a balanced group of individuals all work in a cohesive manner to overcome obstacles.   When it's really going well it is like a fine oiled machine and fun as hell.
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« Reply #457 on: July 04, 2010, 04:35:53 PM »

Quote from: ydejin on July 04, 2010, 04:04:02 AM

They've talked a bit about how a player's skills are like a deck of cards from a CCG, which might imply that you get different skills as mission rewards. They've said that before a mission you can go through and pick which of your skills you want to bring into the mission.  You'll have a lots of different skills that you've learned over the course of your career and you'll be able to pick 7 active skills and 7 passive skills to use for any given mission.

For the record, another game that's already done exactly what you just described is Guild Wars. Sure, GW used a class/level system as well, but that approach to skills - where a significant portion of game strategy is choosing a set of skills appropriate to the mission, appropriate to your playstyle and that work well together - is hardly new.

It's also worth noting that this sort of approach does not necessarily negate the holy trinity, it just shifts the determination of who plays which role from "healer class" to "healer skill build". The upside is that you don't have to level up a separate "alt" character just to experience different types of play but, in a single mission, your group selection and gameplay are still based around the same trinity. It's just more fluid in terms of who fills which role each time around.

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« Reply #458 on: July 04, 2010, 07:49:59 PM »

You mean the Secret World is still alive?!  I thought that died in development when AOC launched so poorly.  I always thought the concept was cool,  hopefully they can do better with this than they did with Conan ( I did hear AOC is MUCH better now )  Always glad to see something out of the basic fantasy realm in an MMO
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« Reply #459 on: July 04, 2010, 08:15:30 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on July 04, 2010, 12:11:09 AM

Quote from: Daehawk on July 03, 2010, 08:52:38 PM

how else can you make an MMO?

I just want them to not make healing the most important thing in the world. WoW sucked for that - there were countless raids, whether they were 40 man, 25, 10 or even 5 that were canceled or just royally screwed over because of not enough healing. And why is there not enough healing? Because healing sucks. It's a rare person who wants his gameplay to revolve around keeping the party alive instead of attacking an enemy, not to mention not being able to go toe-to-toe with another player because their attack isn't good.

I like healing, I'm probably one of the rare people who have fun doing it. There are plenty of people who like healing. IMO, it's the most challenging part. Well, as long as the fights are challenging. I can't heal heroics because my gear vastly superior to them and it's like flash of light every few seconds. But anyways.

Could they change the mechanics to make it more interesting? Sure.
To what? I don't really know, but I'm not paid to make games. War took a step in the right direction. But I think the main problem is the just fight design. It looks like in Cataclysm blizzard is revolving many fights around making healing more interesting. They are totally changing every mechanic of the game to fit in more interesting raids. We'll see though, not in beta yet(hint, hint any blizzard employee), so I can't say how it'll work. But at first I was pissed about the mana changes, but now I think it could be fun. I had zero issues with mana right now. I can regen ridiculous fast and my spell power is ridiculously and I'm only 10icc geared.

If you remove the healing mechanic where's the challenge then? A time limit? Then just becomes a boring dps race that can't allow for much mechanics.
Like I said earlier, I don't think the problem is with the holy trinity, but rather how it's used.




As for MMOs being like WoW. That's signing their own death sentence. Why the fuck would I want to play a subpar blizzard game? I don't. I play WoW because atm it provides the best pve content and I know people from 6 years back when wow first started. You other clones aren't pulling me away from that by making a game I've been playing for over half a decade.

Protip:MMO companies, pretend wow doesn't exist.
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« Reply #460 on: July 05, 2010, 06:14:12 PM »

The Bear Shaman in AOC is has a great healing mechanic, and I know there are other games that have done this as well: you are a melee healer and have to be in the thick of things to do your job.  Heals are cone based, so you have to position well.   I know there is another game that has done this (just am not remembering it right now) where your attacks are actually proc'ing heals on your team.  In general all of AoC's healers have to do damage to be effective healers (not trying to tout AoC as the end all be all of healing, just using it as an example).

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« Reply #461 on: July 05, 2010, 07:25:09 PM »

You might be thinking of Vanguard - the Disciple class generates Jin by attacking their opponents, and they expend it to heal. They also have melee attacks that heal their defensive target (as you can target both an opponent and an ally at the same time). Very different and very well done, IMHO.
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« Reply #462 on: July 05, 2010, 08:20:44 PM »

and that's the key.  You still have the basic aggro magnet/ glass cannon/ giver of life set up, but with a unique mechanic involved.  The fight sequence TOR showed was very early game and the players had basic skills. Who knows what direction the mechanics will go the further in to the game you are.  Here's the rub though, MMO's are social games, you know, that whole multi-player thing.  Therefor some kind of built in dependency is crucial or you get a single player game.  Unfortunately, in games like WoW, you have issues finding certain crucial classes.  Ive seen many raids stopped dead because they could'nt find a healer or a tank.  Ive never seen one dropped because of lack of dps players  ( lack of competent dps is another issue entirely. )   Someone mentioned a system where you can swap out skill sets,  I like that idea it gives you the opportunity to mix it up a bit and have people become competent in various roles.  Still Im sure people would end up getting type cast in specific roles because they do them well.
  Since you're asking for ideas on MMO changes, one last change I would do is to scale raids down.  Unless you have an uber-guild, getting together 25 competent players to run a raid is a pain in the butt.  Yeah I know a lot of guilds can do it but a lot of guilds cant.  I feel its wrong to "gear punish" those groups who cant get into the 25 man raids.  Hell there are times I think 10 mans are a bit much.  I would love to see a game that concentrates on smaller groups for end game gear.  Its fine to set up the big raids but scale the encounters so that smaller groups can benefit as well.  Otherwise you severely limit the end game potential of a huge part of your customer base.  That seems like a bad idea to me.  Of course that's a personal preference thing for me,  Ive always been partial to the smaller, close knit, friends kind of guild.  I find the larger "uber guilds" to be impersonal and eventually clic-ish with an elitist faction and the n00bs faction.  Anyways,  thats my 2cents worth.
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« Reply #463 on: July 05, 2010, 08:37:29 PM »

Vanguard also had the Bloodmage who sacrificed his own life and stole from mobs for his heals.  Another different take on it.  I really like playing healers myself as long as they have some sort of other utility.  DAOC had healing classes that could crowd control and others that were the best buffers in the game.  However, buffing is more boring than healing slywink.  Therefore my Shamman was specced Cave for some nasty DOT's do along with some fairly good dot healing as well.  IIRC Warhammer has some healing classes that are not just vanilla spam healers as well? 

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« Reply #464 on: July 05, 2010, 10:05:26 PM »

That's it, the Disciple.  And to think I played one, ah well, memory goes first, right?

And healers don't have to be soft. My bear shaman can take a beating & keep on going, the disciple I think was the same.  The healing mechanic, damage for heals, effects you too and gives you quite a bit of mileage against mobs.   You might not be in plate, but the trade off on armor is well made up for by heals.  The benefit of this style is you don't have to stop whatever you are doing to heal - it happens as part of your combat rotation.

I hated the healing mechanic in WAR, well, maybe it was just the healer.  Couldn't stand it, and I normally love healers. Then again, I can't remember for the life of me how it worked (that memory thing getting me again), just remember I never enjoyed playing the runepriest.

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« Reply #465 on: July 05, 2010, 10:45:54 PM »

I always play a pet class....EQ = Mage , DAoC = Bonedancer , WoW = Hunter. So I'm hoping theres a good one in TOR. I would like a pet Wookie for my Smuggler smile
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« Reply #466 on: July 05, 2010, 10:49:58 PM »

I think I may give the healing glasses a shot this time around.
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« Reply #467 on: July 05, 2010, 10:52:31 PM »

Sorry Daehawk,  I think smugglers get an Ewok for a pet.   icon_twisted 
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« Reply #468 on: July 05, 2010, 11:17:03 PM »

Quote from: Daehawk on July 05, 2010, 10:45:54 PM

I always play a pet class....EQ = Mage , DAoC = Bonedancer , WoW = Hunter. So I'm hoping theres a good one in TOR. I would like a pet Wookie for my Smuggler smile

Everyone gets a companion.  My impression is that they are more or less MMO pets, so you should be set.
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« Reply #469 on: July 06, 2010, 12:04:40 AM »

info on the endgame is coming.
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« Reply #470 on: July 06, 2010, 05:59:56 AM »

Quote from: Wargus on July 05, 2010, 10:05:26 PM

I hated the healing mechanic in WAR, well, maybe it was just the healer.  Couldn't stand it, and I normally love healers. Then again, I can't remember for the life of me how it worked (that memory thing getting me again), just remember I never enjoyed playing the runepriest.

You played either the melee healer, who healed by getting fury from hitting things, healing himself and others (And was practically immortal on 1vs1's and even 1vs2's) or you played the dedicated healer, Archmage and shaman, who could go either damage or healing, and got better the more they used one aspect in the fight.
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« Reply #471 on: July 06, 2010, 11:56:01 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 06, 2010, 12:04:40 AM

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Ohlen says that because the team are all MMO gamers, their concerns are also the same as the gamers.

"Don't worry, it's not like we're ignoring that. We have a lot of hardcore MMO players who have like five level 80 WoW characters, so it's not like we don't have the knowledge of what we need to do in terms of the elder game and other aspects of our game."
Yeesh. The "SWTOR is just WoW with light sabers and guns" crowd will have a field day with THAT information.  icon_razz
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skystride
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« Reply #472 on: July 06, 2010, 03:25:24 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on July 06, 2010, 05:59:56 AM

Quote from: Wargus on July 05, 2010, 10:05:26 PM

I hated the healing mechanic in WAR, well, maybe it was just the healer.  Couldn't stand it, and I normally love healers. Then again, I can't remember for the life of me how it worked (that memory thing getting me again), just remember I never enjoyed playing the runepriest.

You played either the melee healer, who healed by getting fury from hitting things, healing himself and others (And was practically immortal on 1vs1's and even 1vs2's) or you played the dedicated healer, Archmage and shaman, who could go either damage or healing, and got better the more they used one aspect in the fight.

I want more healer classes like Warrior Priest or Disciple of Khaine from Warhammer in my MMOs please.  Or Disciple from VG.  It feels great to be keeping your party alive while at the same time being near the top in the DPS parse.  I can't stand playing the more traditional healers since the EQ1 Cleric with huge heals and no damage or other utility.
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« Reply #473 on: July 06, 2010, 05:20:42 PM »

Quote from: skystride on July 06, 2010, 03:25:24 PM

Quote from: Razgon on July 06, 2010, 05:59:56 AM

Quote from: Wargus on July 05, 2010, 10:05:26 PM

I hated the healing mechanic in WAR, well, maybe it was just the healer.  Couldn't stand it, and I normally love healers. Then again, I can't remember for the life of me how it worked (that memory thing getting me again), just remember I never enjoyed playing the runepriest.

You played either the melee healer, who healed by getting fury from hitting things, healing himself and others (And was practically immortal on 1vs1's and even 1vs2's) or you played the dedicated healer, Archmage and shaman, who could go either damage or healing, and got better the more they used one aspect in the fight.

I want more healer classes like Warrior Priest or Disciple of Khaine from Warhammer in my MMOs please.  Or Disciple from VG.  It feels great to be keeping your party alive while at the same time being near the top in the DPS parse.  I can't stand playing the more traditional healers since the EQ1 Cleric with huge heals and no damage or other utility.

agreed.  Anything but straight healing.  Crowd Control with healing would my first preference.  Love me some CC.
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« Reply #474 on: July 06, 2010, 08:16:38 PM »

Quote from: morlac on July 06, 2010, 05:20:42 PM

Quote from: skystride on July 06, 2010, 03:25:24 PM

Quote from: Razgon on July 06, 2010, 05:59:56 AM

Quote from: Wargus on July 05, 2010, 10:05:26 PM

I hated the healing mechanic in WAR, well, maybe it was just the healer.  Couldn't stand it, and I normally love healers. Then again, I can't remember for the life of me how it worked (that memory thing getting me again), just remember I never enjoyed playing the runepriest.

You played either the melee healer, who healed by getting fury from hitting things, healing himself and others (And was practically immortal on 1vs1's and even 1vs2's) or you played the dedicated healer, Archmage and shaman, who could go either damage or healing, and got better the more they used one aspect in the fight.

I want more healer classes like Warrior Priest or Disciple of Khaine from Warhammer in my MMOs please.  Or Disciple from VG.  It feels great to be keeping your party alive while at the same time being near the top in the DPS parse.  I can't stand playing the more traditional healers since the EQ1 Cleric with huge heals and no damage or other utility.

agreed.  Anything but straight healing.  Crowd Control with healing would my first preference.  Love me some CC.

I like crowd control, but I like the majority that in a different class.  If I want to heal, I want to heal - I don't want to mez.  

I don't mind the straight healing mechanic.  In fact, I like it because I have a very defined roll.  I don't mind a couple of situational extras - like a shackle, or a slow spell, or a damage burst - but I actually like the healing mechanic and want to concentrate on it.  Now a DPS healer is fine, but that mechanic is very tricky to pull off.  Typically, those classes are either grossly overpowered, aren't effective healers or are made of tissue paper.  Personally, I'd rather sit back and focus on health bars.

Oh, and the healing mechanic in WAR was FUBAR.  The damned WP was grossly overpowered and what was supposed to be the uber healer - the Zealot - absolutely stunk.  The Shaman put out better heals, better DPS and had better survivability than a zealot, making that class unneeded.  Then again, class balance in WAR was atrocious at release - something unforgivable in a PvP game.

I've played a couple of healing classes that I thought were well done over the years.  The druid in WoW was a blast to play because you could effectively solo in cat/bear form and then heal well in instances in normal form.  The original (pre-BC) holy priest was another one that was fun because you could kill most anything 1 on 1, even if it took a while.  Later on, the Disc priest was really awesome with the reflective shield.  Another more recent interesting healing class is the Rune-Keeper in LOTRO, who can be an extremely effective ranged DPS or a healer, but can do only one at a time.  For those who haven't played one, as you DPS your attacks get unlocked and are stronger but your heals get locked out.  Same with healing - your attacks get locked out and get weaker, but you open up your healing skills and they get stronger.  It's a pretty interesting dynamic.

So to summarize, I don't mind the straight healing mechanic so long as I'm not gimped when I'm not healing.  Plus, a good game has other things that a healer has to consider when healing.  Mana usage, aggro and positioning are all critically important in a good game.  I stopped playing WoW when mana pools became endless and aggro was all but impossible to pull.  
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« Reply #475 on: July 07, 2010, 04:53:02 AM »

That was one of the things I liked about SWG - your character could be just about any mix of classes. I wouldn't mind healing so much if it were an option for just about everyone (with limits, of course). I think a good system would allow you to choose any 2 of tank, healer, dps or crowd control.
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« Reply #476 on: July 09, 2010, 12:02:16 PM »

Massively pointed out this DarthHater.com impressions piece from E3, which is much more nitty-gritty detailed than other such pieces I recall, including some notes on each class played:

E3: Hands On Impressions  
http://darthhater.com/2010/07/08/e3-hands-on-impressions
Quote
Trooper
The newest bit of information on the Trooper came in the form of the Ammo system. The Trooper at level two has twelve ammo points and we were told this would remain consistent throughout the game. It functioned similarly to action points but the fixed clip needs to be reloaded to continue to perform abilities.
...
One of the most interesting things we learned about during GDC was the "Looking at You" aggro system. It was now fully in place, with a function called Alerted. I found myself walking past Separatists expecting that they would aggro and much to my surprise they did not. It worked much in the way that you would expect the Old West to work. They were bad dudes, but not necessarily looking to get into a shooting match with the Trooper. They watched you, but as long as you passed by and did not get too close to them or their buddies there was no issue. On the other hand, the roaming Separatist sentry droids would aggro from quite the distance and give chase.
...
This third mob type appears to acknowledge players when they enter a certain range, but will not engage unless the player moves closer or possibly stays in this "aware range" for a prolonged amount of time. This third option, while subtle, does help to make players feel like they are part of the world by reducing the "gamey" feeling accompanied with the "on/off" mobs in many MMOs.
Apparently some of the AI baddies have some ability to get behind cover. As with the Smuggler, this doesn't make them impossible to hit, it just makes them hit less often. It's 5 pages long.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 12:05:10 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #477 on: July 09, 2010, 12:31:48 PM »

LOTRO had this kind of "alertness" system years ago. Most hostile creatures will attack on sight (such as orcs and wargs). Others may warn you before attacking, giving you a few seconds to get away before things turn ugly. Examples of these include many animals, most of which will turn towards you and growl if they feel threatened. The third kind is creatures that find you interesting and will approach to get a closer look at you. Bear cubs will do this, for example. Once they get reasonably close, they may decide to attack.
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« Reply #478 on: July 09, 2010, 01:56:06 PM »

Maybe, I never much noticed it in 3 years of playing. Maybe Turbine needs to give it a cool "feature" name.  icon_razz I suggest "Animal Sense Aggro System."  icon_cool
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 06:09:41 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #479 on: July 09, 2010, 04:37:56 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on July 09, 2010, 01:56:06 PM

Maybe Turbine needs to give it a cool "feature" name.  icon_razz I suggest "Animal Sense Aggro System."

Drop the "aggro". All games need a better ASS.

- Ash
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