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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced  (Read 127420 times)
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cheeba
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« Reply #400 on: June 18, 2010, 06:44:52 AM »

Quote from: Rumpy on June 17, 2010, 11:48:22 PM

I was hoping for player ships, though I'm disappointed you can't choose between different ships. Hopefully though you can customize it, both the interior and parts. At least, it seems the devs realize how important the starship is from the get-go unlike another dev we know.

If you're talking SOE and Star Wars Galaxies, then that's not a great comparison. After all, SWTOR's ships appear to be little more than player housing at this point, and SWG had that from the start. SWG eventually put in the space content with dogfighting, giving players a good variety of ships.
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« Reply #401 on: June 18, 2010, 05:35:27 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 18, 2010, 06:44:52 AM

If you're talking SOE and Star Wars Galaxies, then that's not a great comparison. After all, SWTOR's ships appear to be little more than player housing at this point, and SWG had that from the start. SWG eventually put in the space content with dogfighting, giving players a good variety of ships.


I listened to an interview with one of the TOR leads where he basically said that the ships are basically expanded versions of the Ebonk Hawk from KOTOR and the Normandy from ME1 & 2- a central base of operations where you interact with characters, etc. 
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« Reply #402 on: June 18, 2010, 08:45:14 PM »

I'd bet in the future that your ships/homes will be upgraded to full space sim game play in some fashion. I have no worries about it.
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« Reply #403 on: June 18, 2010, 09:18:21 PM »

I hope they have crazy colors fir the ship hulls; I want to make the Pink Flamingo.
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« Reply #404 on: June 18, 2010, 09:23:33 PM »

Quote from: Daehawk on June 18, 2010, 08:45:14 PM

I'd bet in the future that your ships/homes will be upgraded to full space sim game play in some fashion. I have no worries about it.

I wouldn't bet on it.  There was a talk at GDC this past year by someone from Bioware Austin who had formerly worked on Star Wars Galaxy.  He concluded that it was a mistake to add space combat in.  Darth Hater has a summary

Quote
But what we found was that a lot of the players who were playing the game that we had were not thrilled by us having space -- because they knew it came at the expense of adding more stuff to the stuff they were already playing. So it wasn't positive for retention, because the game was a very different game. It was a 3D space game. And in fact, a whole lot of people who play RPG type games don't really do the 3D thing that well -- it isn't their strongest suit. That was part of what we found out. The control scheme had to be different; everything had to be different. It was not as advantageous to us as we had hoped.

The speaker, Gordon Walton, is now Co-Director of Bioware Austin.  They might decide they can get around the issues they ran into with SWG.  But seems like the safer move would be just to skip space combat.
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« Reply #405 on: June 19, 2010, 12:17:06 AM »

here's a live presentation from E3.
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« Reply #406 on: June 19, 2010, 12:26:56 AM »

Is the narrator of the 'Hope' video the guy who voiced Saravok from Baldur's Gate? Who is he and will he voice Darth Malgus or someone in the game?
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« Reply #407 on: June 19, 2010, 12:32:28 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on June 18, 2010, 05:35:27 PM

Quote from: cheeba on June 18, 2010, 06:44:52 AM

If you're talking SOE and Star Wars Galaxies, then that's not a great comparison. After all, SWTOR's ships appear to be little more than player housing at this point, and SWG had that from the start. SWG eventually put in the space content with dogfighting, giving players a good variety of ships.


I listened to an interview with one of the TOR leads where he basically said that the ships are basically expanded versions of the Ebonk Hawk from KOTOR and the Normandy from ME1 & 2- a central base of operations where you interact with characters, etc. 

hopefully without elevators.
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« Reply #408 on: June 19, 2010, 01:18:20 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 18, 2010, 06:44:52 AM

Quote from: Rumpy on June 17, 2010, 11:48:22 PM

I was hoping for player ships, though I'm disappointed you can't choose between different ships. Hopefully though you can customize it, both the interior and parts. At least, it seems the devs realize how important the starship is from the get-go unlike another dev we know.

If you're talking SOE and Star Wars Galaxies, then that's not a great comparison. After all, SWTOR's ships appear to be little more than player housing at this point, and SWG had that from the start. SWG eventually put in the space content with dogfighting, giving players a good variety of ships.

No, never played SWG. I was talking about STO.
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« Reply #409 on: June 19, 2010, 04:08:44 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 19, 2010, 12:32:28 AM

hopefully without elevators.

He actually confirmed that- no elevators, all seamless in a much bigger environment. 
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« Reply #410 on: June 19, 2010, 04:28:47 AM »

Quote from: ydejin on June 18, 2010, 09:23:33 PM

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But what we found was that a lot of the players who were playing the game that we had were not thrilled by us having space -- because they knew it came at the expense of adding more stuff to the stuff they were already playing. So it wasn't positive for retention, because the game was a very different game. It was a 3D space game. And in fact, a whole lot of people who play RPG type games don't really do the 3D thing that well -- it isn't their strongest suit. That was part of what we found out. The control scheme had to be different; everything had to be different. It was not as advantageous to us as we had hoped.

The speaker, Gordon Walton, is now Co-Director of Bioware Austin.  They might decide they can get around the issues they ran into with SWG.  But seems like the safer move would be just to skip space combat.

Argh. And this is why no one who worked on Star Wars Galaxies should ever be given any decision making abilities, ever.

The problem with the space combat in Star Wars Galaxies was that there was no tie-in whatsoever with the ground game. It was 2 separate games. Also, there was no actual content to the damn ground game. There were literally no real quests in the game. There were no instances. There was no real interaction with the game world in any believable way. The little content that did exist was buggy as shit.

For this guy to draw this conclusion based on such horrible information really scares me.
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« Reply #411 on: June 19, 2010, 06:03:08 AM »

Maybe I missed it before but a new post I read looks like they are going with limitations on what races can be what classes. i HATE that.
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« Reply #412 on: June 19, 2010, 06:07:53 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on June 19, 2010, 04:08:44 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 19, 2010, 12:32:28 AM

hopefully without elevators.

He actually confirmed that- no elevators, all seamless in a much bigger environment. 

that was more kind of a joke than seriousness.
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« Reply #413 on: June 19, 2010, 06:19:39 AM »

the weekly update of the main site.  pretty much a recap of E3.
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« Reply #414 on: June 19, 2010, 06:25:18 PM »

Quote from: Daehawk on June 19, 2010, 06:03:08 AM

Maybe I missed it before but a new post I read looks like they are going with limitations on what races can be what classes. i HATE that.

The question is which is better - lore, or player happiness? To be honest, I'm guessing Lucas is clamping down and making lore be the requirement.
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« Reply #415 on: June 20, 2010, 10:54:42 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 19, 2010, 04:28:47 AM

Argh. And this is why no one who worked on Star Wars Galaxies should ever be given any decision making abilities, ever.

I disagree.  I applaud the original SWG team for trying something different unlike most other companies like Blizzard who always play it safe.  They gambled and failed but at least they weren't trying to make a cookie cutter MMO.
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« Reply #416 on: June 21, 2010, 12:27:56 AM »

Quote from: skystride on June 20, 2010, 10:54:42 PM

Quote from: cheeba on June 19, 2010, 04:28:47 AM

Argh. And this is why no one who worked on Star Wars Galaxies should ever be given any decision making abilities, ever.

I disagree.  I applaud the original SWG team for trying something different unlike most other companies like Blizzard who always play it safe.  They gambled and failed but at least they weren't trying to make a cookie cutter MMO.

If their goal is to make an economically viable and successful MMO, then they *should* take a look at Blizzard's approach.  Nothing wrong with that.

I don't know about you, but I think WoW is a much better game than SWG anyway... are you saying you thought SWG was a great overall game?
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« Reply #417 on: June 21, 2010, 03:57:17 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on June 21, 2010, 12:27:56 AM

I don't know about you, but I think WoW is a much better game than SWG anyway... are you saying you thought SWG was a great overall game?

I've said it a few times, maybe even in this thread, but I'll say it again - I believe SWG was a better MMO than WoW. WoW is definitely the better game, but as a multiplayer experience, SWG back before the dark times was much better than WoW. A lot of that has to do with being able to communicate with the other side.

So yes, I liked a lot of parts in SWG much better than WoW. The skill system was a major advantage for SWG - you could grind out a class in a few days time and weren't limited to being a warrior forever, or a rogue forever. You could be just about any combination you wanted.

But then SOE saw the success of WoW and their response was the biggest epic fail in MMO history, but that's another discussion smile.
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« Reply #418 on: June 21, 2010, 06:16:34 AM »

Quote from: KePoW on June 21, 2010, 12:27:56 AM

Quote from: skystride on June 20, 2010, 10:54:42 PM

Quote from: cheeba on June 19, 2010, 04:28:47 AM

Argh. And this is why no one who worked on Star Wars Galaxies should ever be given any decision making abilities, ever.

I disagree.  I applaud the original SWG team for trying something different unlike most other companies like Blizzard who always play it safe.  They gambled and failed but at least they weren't trying to make a cookie cutter MMO.

If their goal is to make an economically viable and successful MMO, then they *should* take a look at Blizzard's approach.  Nothing wrong with that.

I don't know about you, but I think WoW is a much better game than SWG anyway... are you saying you thought SWG was a great overall game?

while I understand what you are saying, I find it a bit boring to play the same wow clone all the time - give me something new and fresh and  daring! I'm sure there's more than one great way to make a game!
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« Reply #419 on: June 21, 2010, 03:34:01 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 21, 2010, 06:16:34 AM

while I understand what you are saying, I find it a bit boring to play the same wow clone all the time - give me something new and fresh and  daring! I'm sure there's more than one great way to make a game!

I can totally agree with that, no argument there.

But I think every MMO dev should at least look at and study Blizzard's approach, and learn something from it.  Then implement what you think is best for their own game.

A lot of WoW 'clones' have failed, but I don't think it's because WoW's core game design is old or flawed.  In every case, it seems like it's a lack of polish and content and resources... which gives gamers a bad impression.
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« Reply #420 on: June 21, 2010, 06:46:39 PM »

I don't like WoW clones simply because why play them when I can play WoW that does everything they do only better? I want new. Can't wait on TOR.
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« Reply #421 on: June 21, 2010, 06:57:57 PM »

From what I've seen I'd say they're definitely not going the WoW route until the New Combat Experience patch  icon_twisted
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« Reply #422 on: June 22, 2010, 02:28:08 PM »

just watched this video about bounty hunter armor progression, and wow, that third set is UGLY.
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« Reply #423 on: June 22, 2010, 02:37:02 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 22, 2010, 02:28:08 PM

just watched this video about bounty hunter armor progression, and wow, that third set is UGLY.

I kinda liked it.
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« Reply #424 on: June 22, 2010, 02:41:40 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on June 22, 2010, 02:37:02 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 22, 2010, 02:28:08 PM

just watched this video about bounty hunter armor progression, and wow, that third set is UGLY.

I kinda liked it.

the helmet made him look like a bug; all it needs is some antennae to complete the effect  icon_lol

there may be some confusion though, I'm, counting it as third because there's the armor he's wearing when the video starts out, then it goes to the first transformations, which I counted as the 2nd set, and so on.
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« Reply #425 on: June 22, 2010, 02:49:06 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 22, 2010, 02:41:40 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on June 22, 2010, 02:37:02 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 22, 2010, 02:28:08 PM

just watched this video about bounty hunter armor progression, and wow, that third set is UGLY.

I kinda liked it.

the helmet made him look like a bug; all it needs is some antennae to complete the effect  icon_lol

there may be some confusion though, I'm, counting it as third because there's the armor he's wearing when the video starts out, then it goes to the first transformations, which I counted as the 2nd set, and so on.

No, we're talking about the same set.  Yea, it's indicative of the Predator, but I thought it was interesting and was a good progression from the 2nd set.  To me, low-level (or mid-tier) armor shouldn't look that good anyway.  smile
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« Reply #426 on: June 22, 2010, 04:32:48 PM »

On the Smuggler, I was disturbed ... I mean, I felt a disturbance in The ForceTM ... to read in one of the hands-on impressions articles that -- at least for the moment -- you have to use a "Shift-R" key combination  saywhat to put your character into cover. And most articles suggest it isn't so much cover (i.e., you still take fire/damage while "in cover"), as a cosmetically different form of Stealth.

Now I don't expect it be Gears of War (or, Kill.Switch even), I know if you could just cower behind cover and never get hit, it would be silly in an MMO. It just seems like there oughta be a funner way to handle it. Maybe you could limit the time in cover fire. Maybe you can give the enemies (and players in PVP) special skills that can get a smuggler out of cover briefly.

I know I shouldn't read so much into it that early in the development process. It's just that's the class I was most keen on because of the cover fire gimmick, and right now it's not quite shaping up how I hoped.
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« Reply #427 on: June 24, 2010, 02:11:43 PM »

Some rumbling about a closed beta perhaps starting up, and people being told they will have their windpipes crushed by the Emperor himself for yakking about it.  paranoid icon_razz
Rumor: SWTOR closed beta happening this weekend? [Updated]
http://www.massively.com/2010/06/23/rumor-swtor-closed-beta-happening-this-weekend/
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« Reply #428 on: June 24, 2010, 08:20:14 PM »

MMORPG.com posted some Sith Warrior hands-on impressions from E3 today:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/4339/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Hands-On-With-the-Sith-Warrior.html
Quote
I will say that for all of the story and personal achievements Bioware is hyping up in this game, killing slugs at the start just seemed like another MMO in my book. Sorry fans if you were expecting awesomeness, I was too. The Smuggler was much more fun to start with, at least for now.
More hands-on are expected at the PAX show in September (cripes, is September that close already?), and maybe by then they'll have some higher-level demos to play through.

As far as the ranged stuff he frets about, I'd assume there'll be some telekenisis and ability to throw one's light saber a certain distance.

I guess it is a little disappointing early play involves whacking little beasties (rat fill ins). I think that's what concerned me in some screenshots a while back, I saw all these little beast-type animals and started worrying "They're really gonna make you harvest with a light saber or blaster? Are they gonna make you 'skin' animals with those tools too to get hides to turn in? Yeesh.  icon_razz"
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« Reply #429 on: June 24, 2010, 08:47:53 PM »

They've already showed the Sith Warrior using a closing move on enemies like in KotoR, which basically teleports them right to the ranged enemy. They've also shown jedi of all sorts blocking blaster fire with their sabers. That's a dumb thing to be worrying about at level 1.
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« Reply #430 on: June 24, 2010, 08:52:44 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 24, 2010, 08:47:53 PM

They've already showed the Sith Warrior using a closing move on enemies like in KotoR, which basically teleports them right to the ranged enemy. They've also shown jedi of all sorts blocking blaster fire with their sabers. That's a dumb thing to be worrying about at level 1.
Yeah, but what do you do about the slugs spitting poisonous loogies?  icon_razz
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« Reply #431 on: July 02, 2010, 11:19:48 PM »

Multi player demo video
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« Reply #432 on: July 02, 2010, 11:49:07 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on June 24, 2010, 08:52:44 PM

Quote from: cheeba on June 24, 2010, 08:47:53 PM

They've already showed the Sith Warrior using a closing move on enemies like in KotoR, which basically teleports them right to the ranged enemy. They've also shown jedi of all sorts blocking blaster fire with their sabers. That's a dumb thing to be worrying about at level 1.
Yeah, but what do you do about the slugs spitting poisonous loogies?  icon_razz

force umbrella.
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« Reply #433 on: July 03, 2010, 12:59:21 AM »

Quote from: Daehawk on July 02, 2010, 11:19:48 PM

Blah blah blah. More of the same. Grump grump grump. Devs mostly worked on SOE titles, what do you expect? Blah blah blah. Oh it's Bioware, they're perfect, it doesn't matter what it seems like now blah blah blah. It's just WoW with light sabers and blasters Yada yada yada It's like level 10, of course it looks basic, it'll be amazing at higher levels yap yap yap.

I think that covers all the bases. I've saved so much forum bandwidth! icon_smile
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« Reply #434 on: July 03, 2010, 03:30:52 AM »

Well it certainly does seem WoW-cloney doesn't it? I mean tank, off-tank, healing, dps, bleh. I had really hoped for something more creative. If I'm stuck always looking for a healer again I'm not going to be a long-time subscriber in this game.
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« Reply #435 on: July 03, 2010, 04:31:13 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on July 03, 2010, 03:30:52 AM

Well it certainly does seem WoW-cloney doesn't it? I mean tank, off-tank, healing, dps, bleh. I had really hoped for something more creative. If I'm stuck always looking for a healer again I'm not going to be a long-time subscriber in this game.

The claim is that your NPC companions can fill in for whatever is missing.  If your healer is gone for the evening, have everyone else bring along their healer companions.
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« Reply #436 on: July 03, 2010, 04:32:01 AM »

looks horrid, looks like every other game out there.  count me as totally underwhelmed.
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« Reply #437 on: July 03, 2010, 06:15:12 AM »

Quote from: tcweidner on July 03, 2010, 04:32:01 AM

looks horrid, looks like every other game out there.  count me as totally underwhelmed.

In general the game looks a lot like Bioware's single player RPGs, which I've enjoyed a great deal.  The combat looks better than KotOR combat for sure.  It's not a shooter ala Mass Effect, but the combat looks like a reasonable mix of RPG and Action.  I'm still very excited to see this come out, even though I've been rather meh on Star Wars since the prequels (I grew up loving the original trilogy).
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« Reply #438 on: July 03, 2010, 10:12:36 AM »

imo, the problem isn't the holy trinity setup(honestly, I would love to hear what you would do differently. I can't even think of anything and I've been playing these for over a decade).

That fight in particular looked extremely boring. Oh a boss with 2 adds /yawn. Oh here comes a few more adds, outstanding!

I think the holy trinity setup works well if the fight itself is fun and keeps players on the feet. My biggest gripe with the current wow fights is every boss puts something on the ground that you must avoid. This just fucks half your raid. As a holy pally this pisses me off because I have one instant healing spell if bad things happen at once it's a wipe(granted I have ridiculous haste, but really that's moot). So to me these fights are becoming stale.

I think the biggest problem MMOs face is how to keep these instances fun and exciting without constantly recycling ideas. I fully understand that's hard as shit. But to me it looks like bioware is stuck in 2004 here.

Also that UI is fucking awful for a healer. I hope to god it's customizable or will be eventually. Way to put the healing bars out of sight.
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rshetts2
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« Reply #439 on: July 03, 2010, 11:15:20 AM »

The truly difficult part is trying to come up with something innovative, yet accessible to a large spectrum of skill levels, from hard core to casual players.  Like it or not, WoW has set the standard for financially viable MMORPGs. You have $100 million in development costs so what are you going to do?  Risk it all on something completely different and end up alienating your customer base or try to improve on a very successful formula?    Remember, the bottom line is they need mass appeal to get a major customer base, if they try too hard to build a game that caters to the hard core player at the expense of the average player, then they cut out the vast majority of their paying customers.   There is one thing I think TOR can do to help its cause.  Make ships more than space born hostels.  If they can come up with a way to add ship to ship combat without it being a complete twitch-fest, then they may have something.
  Regardless of whether TOR ends up being a reskinned WoW or not, Im still going to give it a shot.  At least its not another generic fantasy setting.
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