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Author Topic: Star Trek Online (Cryptic's "other" new MMO)  (Read 101168 times)
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Blackjack
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« Reply #1920 on: April 13, 2011, 05:31:34 PM »

Some Q&A verbosity from Dan Stahl:
http://www.outpostgamez.com/outpostgamez/top-stories/654-opg-interviews-dan-stahl-of-star-trek-online.html
Quote from: Daniel Stahl
After recently updating the look and feel of Sector Space, the next step is to add more variety and random events as you flying throughout the galaxy. This includes updating Deep Space Encounters and adding more random “star cluster”-like missions to the regular sector maps.

Before we start expanding outward from our existing zones, we also have some gaps that we want to fill with content such as the gap between the Pi Canis and Psi Velorum sectors. You can look for these changes to happen after our Season 4 release.
===========
One of the upcoming Feature Episode series will be based around Deep Space 9 and we intend to have several of the missions take place in locations seen on that show. This could mean venturing into the Gamma Quadrant, or going to some of the planets seen during the Dominion War. Look for this series to start in the Fall.
===========
Q. The fire extinguisher that was used on the mission “Research Rescue” was a very cool item because we actually had to interact with our environment and be mindful of it. Is there a possibility that will see more of these items and missions that could maybe require an EV suit or a rebreather?

A. Yes. We intend to introduce items that are required to complete missions in future Feature Episodes. An environment suit is one of them.
=======================
A. By February 2012, I’d hope to see Feature Episodes happening every week, to have a solid end game, a healthy KDF faction, and many more Fleet based features.
*Personally I'm not a big fan of random content in STO because usually it means something very generic that you wade through just to get it off your mission tracker. I think even my piddly Foundry attempts (which I promise at some point folks will get to try) you'll find interesting enough the first time to really want to pay attention to and soak in rather than "oh boy, ANOTHER patrol mission; and oh boy, another randomized planet glowie-collection mission" syndrome.

*Environment suit sounds promising, esp. if that's a feature we can eventually make use of in The Foundry.
*Featured Episodes happening every week sounds like a bit of a pipe dream imho, unless they get enough financial resources to have a pretty big dev team focused solely on FEs.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 05:34:52 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #1921 on: April 19, 2011, 12:25:48 PM »

Stahl's April Engineering Report:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=211534
Some of it (I figure the "in discussions" and long-term is way too far off on the radar to get much excited about; underlined a few things that sound interesting):
Quote
In Testing
These items are currently being tested on either an internal test shard or on TRIBBLE/REDSHIRT

    Oberth Class ship
    Section 31 uniform
    Repeatable mission that rewards players for playing x number of Foundry missions
    Playable fighter craft for FED and KDF
    Better ways to promote and inform players about Feature Episodes in game
    Updated “Diplomatic Orders” (P’Jem) mission
    Remastered "Doomsday" mission
    Season 4 features and content
    New Gorn customization options
    Adding in planets in the Sol System that you can visit
    Vivox Voice Chat integration
    Updating combadges for most uniforms
    More female character uniform options such as additional skirts and boots

Under Investigation
These issues are hot topics in the QA and CS world. It by no means represents all the bugs we're looking into, but instead new issues that
I want you to know we are on top of.

    Fire at Will Issues
    Contacts showing blank headshots on subsequent dialog options
    Ground Anomalies in Star Clusters giving inconsistent rewards
    Indicators in sector space being off the mark beyond 3.5 LY
    Weapon FX that fire twice when activated
    VFX for KDF scanners can show blue instead of the default red
    Camera issues when using devices while seated in a chair
    Ability to summon your away team to your location on a ground map

In Development
These items are actively being worked on by the at this time by the development team.

    New Ground Combat v 2.0 - major update to weapons and a new over shoulder aim and shoot (optional) reticle system
    Improving responsiveness of ground weapons and powers
    New Running, Sprinting, and 8 direction of movement animations (keeping your weapon pointed where you are looking as you move)
    Fleet Action Lobby System (organize teams up to 4 teams and join or launch Fleet Action map)
    ”Jupiter” uniform series (2409 based jackets)
    Duty Officer System (formerly known as the crew system)
    New Bonuses, items, craftables, and game mechanics related to Duty Officers
    New Tutorial for both FED and KDF (existing FED Tutorial will become a FED prequel mission for Khitomer Accord)
    New persistent maps for FED and KDF tutorials (Starfleet Academy on Earth and Klingon Academy on Qo'noS)
    Ability to skip new player tutorial after you've done it once
    Updated Qo’noS Hub Map
    New ship variants to fill in ship gaps at each tier (FED and KDF)
    Removing the concept of "Off-Duty" costumes and simply giving everyone "costume slots" you can use to store costumes
    Recipes to craft additional melee weapons
    New craftable consumable items
    New Loading Screens
    More detailed Sector Space and Galaxy Maps
    Reviewing designs of the STFs to determine areas that need improvement and ways to make these episodes better
    Many UI and HUD updates, including a much easier way to browse ships and see variations before purchasing
    Fan submitted Enterprise
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 12:28:20 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #1922 on: April 19, 2011, 01:31:45 PM »

Sonova.... knew I forgot something. *cancels subscription a bit late* Well I guess if I get the overwhelming urge to play in the next 2 months I can.
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« Reply #1923 on: April 19, 2011, 01:38:00 PM »

Once they get the new combat system, animations, and voice chat working this game may be ready for release!
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« Reply #1924 on: April 19, 2011, 05:53:43 PM »

Quote from: Aganazer on April 19, 2011, 01:38:00 PM

Once they get the new combat system, animations, and voice chat working this game may be ready for release!
I believe ground combat is tied into Cryptic's next big codebase update for the engine used by STO, Champions and the new NWN game. I recall reading June as the earliest that could happen, but no particular date was promised.
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« Reply #1925 on: April 19, 2011, 07:37:06 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on April 19, 2011, 05:53:43 PM

Quote from: Aganazer on April 19, 2011, 01:38:00 PM

Once they get the new combat system, animations, and voice chat working this game may be ready for release!
I believe ground combat is tied into Cryptic's next big codebase update for the engine used by STO, Champions and the new NWN game. I recall reading June as the earliest that could happen, but no particular date was promised.

That's my understanding as well.  They are reducing the frequency of changes which require synching with the Champions code base and decoupling these changes from adding of new content such as the Featured Episodes.
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« Reply #1926 on: April 20, 2011, 03:55:09 PM »

Quote from: ydejin on April 19, 2011, 07:37:06 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on April 19, 2011, 05:53:43 PM

Quote from: Aganazer on April 19, 2011, 01:38:00 PM

Once they get the new combat system, animations, and voice chat working this game may be ready for release!
I believe ground combat is tied into Cryptic's next big codebase update for the engine used by STO, Champions and the new NWN game. I recall reading June as the earliest that could happen, but no particular date was promised.

That's my understanding as well.  They are reducing the frequency of changes which require synching with the Champions code base and decoupling these changes from adding of new content such as the Featured Episodes.
OMG! That sounds like it could break the space-time continuum and decouple the warp factor delimiter from the hazatronic pozimatrix framatazaa, which could send the Earth whirling into a space time black hole influx that could turn the universe inside out!  paranoid  icon_eek

But hey, anything to improve a few MMOs, right?  Bring your own!
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« Reply #1927 on: April 20, 2011, 03:59:07 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on April 20, 2011, 03:55:09 PM

Quote from: ydejin on April 19, 2011, 07:37:06 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on April 19, 2011, 05:53:43 PM

Quote from: Aganazer on April 19, 2011, 01:38:00 PM

Once they get the new combat system, animations, and voice chat working this game may be ready for release!
I believe ground combat is tied into Cryptic's next big codebase update for the engine used by STO, Champions and the new NWN game. I recall reading June as the earliest that could happen, but no particular date was promised.

That's my understanding as well.  They are reducing the frequency of changes which require synching with the Champions code base and decoupling these changes from adding of new content such as the Featured Episodes.
OMG! That sounds like it could break the space-time continuum and decouple the warp factor delimiter from the hazatronic pozimatrix framatazaa, which could send the Earth whirling into a space time black hole influx that could turn the universe inside out!  paranoid  icon_eek

But hey, anything to improve a few MMOs, right?  Bring your own!

It's Star Trek.  I figured techno-babble was the appropriate way to respond to your post  Tongue
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« Reply #1928 on: April 21, 2011, 12:24:13 AM »

I'm quitting WoW again. Not sure if I want to go back to STO to waste time time TOR or just wait. been using money on WoT and need more lol.
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« Reply #1929 on: April 21, 2011, 12:33:35 AM »

Quote from: ydejin on April 20, 2011, 03:59:07 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on April 20, 2011, 03:55:09 PM

Quote from: ydejin on April 19, 2011, 07:37:06 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on April 19, 2011, 05:53:43 PM

Quote from: Aganazer on April 19, 2011, 01:38:00 PM

Once they get the new combat system, animations, and voice chat working this game may be ready for release!
I believe ground combat is tied into Cryptic's next big codebase update for the engine used by STO, Champions and the new NWN game. I recall reading June as the earliest that could happen, but no particular date was promised.

That's my understanding as well.  They are reducing the frequency of changes which require synching with the Champions code base and decoupling these changes from adding of new content such as the Featured Episodes.
OMG! That sounds like it could break the space-time continuum and decouple the warp factor delimiter from the hazatronic pozimatrix framatazaa, which could send the Earth whirling into a space time black hole influx that could turn the universe inside out!  paranoid  icon_eek

But hey, anything to improve a few MMOs, right?  Bring your own!

It's Star Trek.  I figured techno-babble was the appropriate way to respond to your post  Tongue
maybe they can do a Trek/Champions crossover  icon_lol
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« Reply #1930 on: April 30, 2011, 03:24:07 PM »

Some interesting tidbits on the ground combat revamp recently...

Aiming mechanics (basically, no change, just the optional over shoulder aiming mode)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3512213#post3512213
Quote
1. will the over the shoulder mode be a mouse look/wasd style as in most fps games, and if so will we use a key like alt or middle mouse to switch back and forth in order to operate our ui with the mouse.

It will work just like a tps, with your mouse controlling the camera, wasd to move, and your mouse clicks for firing. You simply press X to enter or leave the mode.

2. How will this affect melee combat, will we see any changes to the current way melee works or is this more of a ranged weapon revamp.
    Melee will get a damage adjustment, but no new animations.

3. will the crouch mechanic be removed or integrated (where crouching increases dps)
    The crouch mechanic is integrated. It works exactly the same as it did before.

4. the scope mode sounds interesting, is there any plans to eventually add hitboxes to models to allow for headshot crit bonuses?
    No plans. We wanted to try and get this in, but its just too big of a departure from how our engine works.

5. will these changes alter the current flanking damage bonus system.
    Nope

Fewer "weedeater" (undercarriage) weapons (which seemed to belong more in an Aliens game)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3512627#post3512627
Quote from: dev Salami Inferno
The number of "weedeater" assault weapons is getting cut down to 2. The new pulsewave assault will be using rifle geo and will be "firing from the hip". The minigun and the grenade launcher will be the only remaining undercarriage weapons.


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« Reply #1931 on: May 09, 2011, 08:17:20 PM »

The Latest Ask Cryptic for May...
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2424
I didn't really see anything that got me excited in the near-term. Duty Officers seem to be set as a Season 4 update, and the ground combat revamp is apparently going well but still a ways off. A few things caught my eye:
Quote
Q: P_Sutherland Any spoilers about series 4? Story wise, Will we get any more encounters with the Undine? Any spoilers regarding the Tholians yet?

A: Series 4 will be near DS9. You'll see more Undine as soon as the Borg make their move (which could be before FE series 4). Tholians are on our short-list of antagonists and will be in an upcoming Feature Episode series, but we shall see exactly when.
=========================
Q: BluerockBeing04 What kind of changes will be made to tetryon, polaron, and transphasic torpedoes to make them all more effective?

A: In a previous Ask Cryptic I talked about how we recognize that some skill trees aren't as desirable as others due to various damage types like the ones you listed. Our first task is cleaning up the skill tree so that putting points into these powers makes sense. Once we tackle that hurdle, we can start to talk about ways to differentiate power types more than we have. The new ground combat system is introducing some of the changes to power types that point in the direction we want to go.

=======================
Q: The.Grand.Nagus Which month is Featured Episodes Series 4 scheduled to go live, and will there be no more than 2 weeks between Series 4 and 5(and all futures series) as previously mentioned?

A: As much as I wish I could give you a date, I'm going to say that the next Feature Episode series will come after Season 4 releases. Adding new content to the game is absolutely something we are working on hitting as soon as we can get this monstrous Season 4 software update live. The next "content" release may not be a feature episode, but something bigger. Our goal still remains to have as little downtime between feature episode series as possible when we start back up. No more than two weeks in between is our goal.
======================
Q: Shadow_mane2001 Would you consider adding an Item upgrade system to STO?

A: Yes. One of our goals is to use systems such as duty officer assignments to allow your staff to upgrade items and systems on your ship. You'll begin to see something like this closer to Season 5.

Q: neotom52345 What are some new options Foundry authors can look forward to in the immediate future as well as down the line?

A: In the short term, our plan is to start porting over more assets and locations from our Feature Episode series as we move forward. We are also planning on hooking up Foundry mission doors and NPCs on the new Qo'noS and Starfleet Academy (when it is released). In the long term, the core Foundry software team is currently working directly with Neverwinter to incorporate all of their feature ideas. Once that tech gets finished, all the games that use the Foundry will benefit from those new features. I'm not at liberty to share the feature list just yet.
The end of the month (May 26) does supposedly bring a couple of remastered episodes (P'Jem and The Doomsday Machine).
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« Reply #1932 on: May 10, 2011, 12:31:09 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on May 09, 2011, 08:17:20 PM

The Latest Ask Cryptic for May...
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2424
I didn't really see anything that got me excited in the near-term. Duty Officers seem to be set as a Season 4 update, and the ground combat revamp is apparently going well but still a ways off....

So much stuff discussed as 2012.  That seems so far away.
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« Reply #1933 on: May 13, 2011, 06:15:01 PM »

Cryptic put out a preliminary, subject to change, don't slash your throat over it cause it's not final, possible look for the new Duty Officer stuff on Facebook; a fan posted it over on ImageShack. And being devious I've grabbed it to share here:


While I think it's cool and very Trekkie, I also think STO has way too many dang menu screens for its own good as it is, and this will only make that worse. But if you like to fiddle, this will be your Stradivarius...
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« Reply #1934 on: May 17, 2011, 03:01:23 PM »

Stahl's May Engineering Report:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=215552
The "remastered" P'Jem and Doomsday missions are due later this month. Season 4's scheduled to release July 7, and he indicates the revamped ground combat should be available on test server to try in early June.
Quote
One of the biggest changes coming to the game is the reworking and rebalancing of nearly every ground weapon and kit power in the game. These changes can include range changes, modes of fire and area of effect changes, reload times, new audio, new visual fx, new secondary fire modes, as well as base stat and dps updates.

This also includes a new optional camera mode which allows you to use an over the shoulder reticle mode to aim and shoot instead of needing to Tab or Mouse Select targets. It also means being able to drag weapon fire across an area an hit multiple targets, or dumb throw grenades in a general area.

In all, the ground combat changes will provide an entirely different feel to away missions and completely change ground PVP. In addition to the weapon changes, enemy mobs have had their HP tuned so that they scale from easy to hard in a more reasonable way.

This speeds up combat pace for the most part, but also adds more challenges when fighting higher ranked mobs, as a captain enemy mob can now be as challenging as a mini-boss in some cases. We can’t wait for you to get your hands on this and tell us what you think! We anticipate a lot of feedback from Tribble and we’ll be standing by to monitor and make adjustments.
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« Reply #1935 on: May 17, 2011, 07:41:23 PM »

Atari is apparently trying to sell Cryptic Studios, makers of STO and CO. Why would they do such a thing, you ask?

Quote
"In line with the previously stated strategy of fewer but more profitable releases and further expansion into casual online and mobile games, the Company has determined that external development creates more flexibility in the changing marketplace," Atari wrote in justifying the move.

The studio, which recently took Champions Online free-to-play, showed a €5.3 million ($7.5 million) loss for the 2010/11 fiscal year, up from a loss of €12.6 million ($17.9 million) the previous year.

Ouch. And I'm loving the hell out of CO right now.
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« Reply #1936 on: May 17, 2011, 09:36:01 PM »

The STO reps are just reminding people this means nothing right now -- Atari's continuing to support them until they find a buyer (If Atari's to be taken at its word), and some new STO devs are still scheduled to start work in June.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3543592#post3543592
Quote from: community rep Wishstone
The headline is chosen a little unfortunate by the colleagues at Gamasutra and makes it sound like we're a kicked puppy standing in the rain. That's not the case.  icon_smile

Right now I have no further details other than what has been mentioned elsewhere. Support for Champions Online and Star Trek Online will be continuing as normal, our staff is working hard on their projects (and the folks from the Champions team deserve an extra cheer for their new stuff by the way) and there are no planned changes to the way any of our games and projects will operate.

So Stormy is here, I am here, Dan and the gang are here, your GMs and QA staff are working hard. It sounds way more dramatic than it actually is.
I just don't know who would have any interest in Cryptics' properties in the current economy. NCSoft and SOE have all their own problems to deal with right now.

Most of the Korean MMO publishers are fixated on F2Ps. Champions might have some interest there, though I assume a buyer has to take everything in the Cryptic portfolio per se. And of course Cryptic's offices, servers etc. are here in the U.S.

On the one hand, I despise Atari for presumably forcing STO and CO to each release prematurely. But I don't think anyone can argue they didn't support the games extensively post-release.
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« Reply #1937 on: May 18, 2011, 01:13:22 AM »

n00b here. What are my GT & friends-related guild options? I know JSHAW via OO runs with ORDER OF THE BLACK FLAG. Just looking for a casual experience--if with acquaintances, all the better.

Fresh off the shuttlecraft and pretty much overwhelmed. It's not EVE or anything, but drowning in menus and struggling to understand where I should be putting points skills-wise.

Gavrilod Mudlegdig is born! Many Pakled out there? Soldek was my test character. Not sure if I'll play him much. I was going to make a Vulcan android but got impatient.
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« Reply #1938 on: May 18, 2011, 12:39:40 PM »

Quote from: The Myoclonic Jerk on May 18, 2011, 01:13:22 AM

n00b here. What are my GT & friends-related guild options? I know JSHAW via OO runs with ORDER OF THE BLACK FLAG. Just looking for a casual experience--if with acquaintances, all the better.

Fresh off the shuttlecraft and pretty much overwhelmed. It's not EVE or anything, but drowning in menus and struggling to understand where I should be putting points skills-wise.
Although I'm Lifetime I've decided to mothball the game until the ground combat revamp at least reaches Tribble test server (hopefully late next month).

I don't really know if any GTers are playing at all anymore. STO and Champions share chat channels btw -- this can be handy but also can lead to some custom chat channel confusion.

Be sure to check out the Featured Episodes, which imho aren't really explained enough in-game except during the week they're launched:
http://www.startrekonline.com/feature_episodes

And of course at some point all the player-created Foundry stuff.
http://www.startrekonline.com/foundry_faq
Quote
Q: How do I play missions created using The Foundry?

Player-authored content can be accessed in game through the "Community Authored" tab after hailing Starfleet or the KDF. From there, you can specify search criteria to find certain types of missions or choose missions based on their Community Rating. Note: You must complete the Tutorial before you are able to access Community Authored content.

There's a helpful online manual:
http://www.startrekonline.com/manual

I wouldn't hesitate to post questions in the forums. Probably The Academy is the best place to seek help if you're new:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=127

There's a section for fleet recruitment:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78

I think there's a fleets listings kiosk in one of the starbase rooms too.

The game has auto-teaming (optional). It works OK but I found very little interest in PUGs of teaming for more than one mission or adding to friends lists etc. (at least not like I've had in stuff like City of Heroes and LOTRO).

Yeah, I find all the menus intimidating too. Supposedly a long-term goal is to revamp some of that to make it easier to understand and more meaningful to use. I've found after just a couple months away from STO, it's really tough for me to remember how to do, pretty much anything in the game.  icon_razz
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« Reply #1939 on: May 18, 2011, 05:12:11 PM »

There's a thread about the upcoming ground weapon changes that has sort of become an unofficial FAQ with a lot of details from devs:

Miniguns, Shotguns and Rifles, oh my!
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=215626
If you don't feel like combing the dev tracker or 9 pages of posts, here's some of what the devs posted:
Quote
   Ok I have a question. With the new Over the shoulder aiming coming up, is it going to be like, click to shoot? I've been hearing that its some kind of lock on thing... if it is click to shoot, will it give extra damage, since it is less accurate (especially for PvP)
Dev:  It is click to shoot. The current implementation is left click for primary, right click for secondary, and mouse click for tertiary. It will be completely player customizable as well. The question of additional damage is something we’ve toyed with. We’re currently going to go without one heading into tribble and gather player feedback to see how that pans out.

   I'm curious as to how support abilities like Medical Tricorder, Vascular Regenerator etc. will work when using the optional 3rd person aiming mode. Will we need to point our crosshairs at the friendly teammate in need to use these abilities? Is it a viable option, or should a healer just stick with the 'standard' ground combat mode?
    If you use shooter mode as a healer you would have to point at the targets you want to heal. In situations where you want to have command of the battlefield, it’s smarter to be in RPG mode. That way you can scroll out and click targets as you normally would.

   Pistols; How will dual pistols feel different from firing a single pistol? Will there be more variation like from machine pistols to magnums or revolvers?
    Dual pistols got fx and animation updates to make them look cooler. Aside from looks, they will behave differently from our other pistol types in the game.

   So the armour gear we have equipped serves no purpose?
    If course they have a purpose! An armorless, shieldless character will be at a significant disadvantage compared to a player that’s appropriately geared.
==============================
Stahl mentioned this in his Engineering Report in passing; you'll be able to toss grenades to a general location or just lob them up skyward:
Quote
Well, speaking of throwing grenades I'm not sure if Al mentioned it, but you can now throw grenades regardless of target. You can look at a spot on the ground and you will throw it to that spot, or you can look at the sky and you will throw the grenade at that angle.
=============================
Swapping:
Quote
You can engage in melee combat while in shooter mode, so that's as fast as swapping weapons.

If you want to go from shooter mode with a rifle to RPG mode with a lirpa, you press "z" to swap weapons and "x" to swap from shooter to rpg mode. Pretty easy
==============================
Quote
WIll we be able to do head shots?
    No. This was something we tried to get in, but doesnt currently fit with the architecture of our MMO engine.

Can sniper rifles zoom?
    All weapons have a zoom. How far away you can actually hit is based on the weapon. Sniper rifles secondary fire has the longest range by far.

will these changes fix the issue of weapons firing without actually firing?
    Every weapon power, fx, animation, and audio has been touched. This should stop any bugs you're seeing and possibly cause some new ones we'll find as we continue to test

Will a cover system ever come into play?
    There isn't a "Stick to" cover system, but we will continue to make line of sight cover more important and functional. [as with many MMOs I play, projectiles often pass through solid corners and cover, so I'm skeptical a true cover-fire system would work here-bj]
=====================
Mouse-click attack options
Quote from: Stahl
btw... not sure if this has been mentioned, but the mouse-click combat has a few additional bells and whistles.

We've added two hotkeys (currently mapped to R and T - but remappable) which allow your Left, Middle, and Right mouse buttons to temporarily access the first 3 slots of the 2nd and 3rd power tray in order to fire off powers.

Example.

Tray 1:
Slot 1 = Primary Weapon Fire
Slot 2 = Secondary Weapon Fir
Slot 3 = Tertiary Fire (most often its rifle butt or palm strike)

Tray 2: (Tap R to temporarily replace Tray 1)
Slot 1 = Kit Power 1 (e.g. Grenade)
Slot 2 = Kit Power 2 (e.g. Smoke Grenade)
Slot 3 = Captain Power 3 (e.g. Targeting Optics)

Tray 3 (Tap T to temporarily replace Tray 1)
Slot 1 = Stimpack
Slot 2 = Shield Recharge
Slot 3 = Resucitate

How it works in shooter mode:
As you move the reticle onto a target, the target and reticle light up. Clicking LMB,RMB fires the weapon as you'd expect in any shooter.

However, lets say I'm shooting - shooting - shooting but now want to throw a grenade
I tap the R key - it temporarily maps Tray 2 to my mouse buttons - so that the next time I click LMB - it throws a grenade where my reticle is aiming and then immediately switches back to Tray 1 weapon mode.
If I didn't want to throw the grenade I can tap R again.

Similarly, if I get in trouble and need to heal - I can quickly tap T-LMB and use my stimpack all while keeping my WASD going.

It is turning out to be pretty slick, but I'm very eager to get your feedback on it.
===========
Various dev observations
Quote
We did PvP playtests before and after, as well as another PvP playtest in the new system as recent as yesterday. So far there isn't a person internally that doesn't think the new ground combat is better, regardless of the mode you play.
-------------------
All grenades got a good boost. They're definitely something you want to move away from when you see them in bound.
-------------------
This [new over-shoulder targeting option] is a completely new mode that was developed based on our design requirements. You haven't seen a Cryptic game use this system before [e.g., Champions doesn't use it].

You will have a reticule on your screen and when you hover it over an enemy that enemy will become selected. When you fire all of your shots will go to that enemy as long as you keep the cursor over the enemy.

I feel that it's much easier to use in groups because you can start to pick off some guys, and then when you notice someone killing a boff you can very easily aim at them to assist. It allows for a lot of freedom in selecting your targets.
===========================
more Shooter Mode Details (they call the "regular" mode "RPG mode," though I think it's going to confuse people thinking it's "roleplaying game")
Quote
The introduction and seemingly (i say seemingly as i'm not sure if this is just due to it being a new mode or whether there is more focus on it) increased focus on the "shooter" mode though has me very worried.
    We’re focusing on shooter mode because it’s brand new and needs to be worked on in order to get everything working right. The class table, critter damage, boff work, and weapon updates we’ve made affect both modes of the game equally, so ground combat as a whole is getting updated. Additionally, it’s not like RPG mode is taking a back seat, we just know it already works so it doesn’t need as much attention.

Will RPG mode and shooter mode allow for the same damage output, utility of powers and general effectiveness of a player? basically will I still be as strong a player to my team if i stick to RPG mode as i am now?
    Yep. We see the main difference between the two modes is how you perceive the battlefield. In shooter mode you’re focusing on the combat portion of the encounter, where in RPG mode you focusing on the battlefield as a whole (healing, dropping turrets, etc). While you can do anything in any mode, there are benefits to both.

Will you be keeping all of the current mechanics we know and love? (i.e. expose/exploit, flanking damage, LoS-based cover, time pausing, stance/movement based defense bonuses) as long as these survive I will continue playing ground PvP every week.
    Yep, they’re all still there.

Also please don't ever add headshots or a fully fledged cover system. STO's combat is so fluid, fast and based on movement and these, i feel, would ruin what makes it such a great experience.
    While these are things we’d like to get in at some point, none of these features are slated for season 4.

Last question: Will BOs be buffed? this is where i believe most people's issues truly lie with ground combat. BOs have awful DPS and hardly ever shoot their weapons. If you could bring them in line with other players Ground combat would go as fast for everyone as i know it can be (5 players on normal mode can defeat all the groups very quickly)
    Boff damage is definitely more potent. They are much closer damage wise to an actual player, though still not as powerful.
======================
Changes to Specific Ground Weapon Types (they had mentioned a while back that most of the "under slung" weapons [I call them Weedeaters] would be changed to rifle types)
Quote
The current assault version of the split beam weapon is being converted to a gatling gun.

The current split beam rifle is remaining a split beam rifle.

The current "rapid fire assault" weapon is turning into a rifle with a three round burst primary and a full auto secondary.

As it stands right now bridge officers will only use one weapon.



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« Reply #1940 on: May 18, 2011, 05:31:51 PM »

wow.....
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« Reply #1941 on: May 19, 2011, 02:32:15 PM »

The remastered P'Jem and Doomsday missions should be up this weekend on Tribble test server. There's a feedback thread here (though, no feedback yet based on actually playing it):

Remastered Pjem and Imaga -Feedback
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=215824
------------------------

Stahl had another post, rather technical, explaining the benefits of getting Cryptic's codebase updated throughout all its games/projects:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3544664#post3544664
Quote
Cryptic Studios has no less than 4 development teams using the same core engine codebase. Most of the time, the games are running on their own "branch" of this code while the core engineers continue to work on new featuers, game performance improvements, and big huge sweeping features that make the engine and game mechanics better.

In order to get all these fancy new features, bug fixes, and performance updates into our respective games, we have to synch up from time to time. The Season 4 update is one of these times. It has been a massive undertaking from the entire company to synch up all of our code to get it "current" with all the amazing improvements that have happened on games such as Neverwinter and our other unnamed projects. It is a way for our humble STO team to gain the benefit of several other teams improving the core game code.

Most of this stuff isn't very sexy to talk about and doesn't necessarily amount to the sort of patch notes that make the average player excited. It does make the development teams very happy though as it takes care of many lingering issues and introduces ways for us to greatly improve the game experience moving forward.

Some of the great new "behind the scenes" features included in Season 4 have names like "micro-patching" and "partitioning" and "animation sequencing". Not super sexy - I warned you.

But what this allows us to do for you is making patches much smaller, improve game performance in busy maps [the partitioning-bj], and add amazing new combat animations for our ground combat system. In addition it will improve things such as our cutscene engine - allowing us to make better cut-scenes faster. It allows us to make new types of loot and items. It will bring an integrated voice chat solution to the game.

It will improve mouse and keyboard responsiveness. It brings new texture and lighting code as well as improved graphics performance and crossing fingers - even DX11 support. Again - not the sexiest things - but features that will make the game better. Tons of code from many programmers on all of our games - synching up so that we get the benefits of everyone's efforts.

The drawback is that it has consumed my development team for the last few months implementing these new features and making sure that things work properly in our game. We still have a full month of bug bashing and integration testing in June, but we at least hope to get the Season 4 pre-launch build to you on TRIBBLE asap.

So to go back to the original idea of - things aren't moving very fast on the Engineering Reports over the last few months - well that is true because we need to get this new Season 4 codebase live. Doing so bring us the tools and features and time to let us start tackling all of the tasks listed.

Everything on the Engineering Report - especially the items in Discussion are things we want to tackle once Season 4 goes live. Once we finigh our primary code crunch on May 27, the entire time is pedal to the medal back onto new mission content from here through the rest of the year at least.

We are already planning out new Fleet Actions, New Feature Episodes, new Daily Missions, New Patrol Missions, new DSEs, new STFs and yes - a few new PVP maps as well.

The beautiful thing is - for some of this stuff - we don't even have to wait till S4 launches. You could see new DSEs and possibly new Daily Missions before S4 launches. Soon after you'll start to see that we have big plans in store for upcoming dealings with the Borg as well as a slew of amazing new feature episode series. In fact there is so much stuff on the schedule for the rest of the year that we're also making a new in game Calendar so you can see all the missions and events available each week.

There may be a few content casualties - the tutorials were eating up a ton of time and not getting anything 'critical' into the game - but that doesn't mean Starfleet Academy and Klingon Academy aren't coming your way. They still are. And if you're a Klingon - you'll be getting full access to every sector in the game sometime during Season 4. As we do you'll get more and more access to patrols, DSE, Fleet Actions and new content events we have planned as well. Not to mention you'll need to keep the Borg from assimilating the Gorn. That should keep you pretty busy.

We also have new blood starting in June as the team adds a new character artist, a new software engineer, and a new content designer. We're still looking to hire an additional systems and content designer as well. [Apparently this is regardless of the Atari announcement the other day-bj] I don't know about you - but that has me really excited. Anytime our team grows like this is means more awesome is on the way.

SO yes - it has been a long haul since the last feature episode series and I cannot wait to get back to a real cadence of content releases. It is driving me nuts too. Just a few more weeks and you'll start seeing a ton more sneak peaks from me as we begin to tease the stuff you'll be playing soon.

Don't let the news [Atari] or other worries get you down. STO is doing very well as a game and I'm not going anywhere and the team is rock solid behind making this game more awesome every day.
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« Reply #1942 on: May 19, 2011, 04:50:27 PM »

Another dev threw out a fresh bone on the upcoming Duty Officer system:

Duty Officer Assignment Category Advancement
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3546351#post3546351
Quote
Here's how it is current being planned to work (subject to all the usual caveats about development timing, inter-system design necessities...you guys know the drill):

Every assignment is a member of one of twelve categories; Science, Engineering, Military, Exploration, Espionage, Medical, Colonial, Trade, Development, Recruitment, Diplomatic (FED only), Marauding (KDF only).

In addition to any other rewards a player gets for successfully completing an assignment (e.g., Skill Points, Bridge Officer Points, Energy Units, anomalies, items, duty officers), the player will receive credit for advancing in that category of assignment. In the same way that a player gains tiers in the current Diplomacy system, advancing far enough in one of these assignment categories will gain the player tiered accolades with different rewards and benefits.

Q: What kinds of rewards will be gained?
A: Very similar types of rewards to what the Diplomacy system currently gives you, but not identical. So, accolades, titles, unique duty officers are definitely on the plate, and others as we figure out what makes sense and what we have time for. Higher tiers may also wind up opening up additional special assignments.

Q: Will this be out at the same time as the first iteration of the duty officer system?
A: That's the goal, but no promises. At the very least, you will be able to accrue credit for completing these types of assignments.

Q: Is the credit for Diplomacy assignments going to actually be DXP? Will there be additional Diplomatic rewards added?
A: Credit for Diplomacy assignments is planned to actually be DXP. There probably won't be additional Diplomatic rewards added for now, but no promises either way.

Q: How many tiers will there be for each assignment category?
A: As with the current Diplomacy system, there are planned to be four tiers initially, with a fifth tier available when we add <REDACTED> and <REDACTED>, which are the next big systems on my plate to work on after the duty officer systems (which includes the department heads and first officer components) are up and running.

Q: Will advancing in these categories be possible through means other than assignments?
A: We've discussed making advancement in these categories accessible in other areas of the game such as missions, but it is TBD if/when/how this might happen.

Q: Will there be other types of accolades available through the assignment system other than those related to the assignment category tiers?
A: That's the current plan, yes. Timing and extent of this is, of course, TBD.
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« Reply #1943 on: May 20, 2011, 02:44:33 PM »

I forgot Stahl posts a lot of little phone-camera pix via his Twitter account that don't get into the forums unless a fan finds them.

Here's his yfrog/Twitter pix page:
http://yfrog.com/user/Cryptic_dStahl/profile

Some recent ones of note:

Golden Gate Bridge (for the Starfleet Academy stuff)
http://yfrog.com/h74bahpj

Inside one of the Starfleet Academy buildings
http://yfrog.com/h0yxdfgj

One of the 500-day subscriber Jupiter uniforms (all black)
http://yfrog.com/gyihmfnj

Finalists in the "Design the next Enterprise" contest
http://yfrog.com/h7cu2isj

New playable fighter ships (now in C-Store I think for Federation and KDF)
http://yfrog.com/h3bkzagj
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« Reply #1944 on: May 20, 2011, 10:27:12 PM »

I will keep an eye on this thread.

Blackjack - please post in BIG LETTERS when the combat update goes live to the regular servers.  If I hear generally positive things - I'm re-subbing for a month to check it out.

(thanks for the continual updates as well).

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« Reply #1945 on: May 27, 2011, 06:15:23 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on May 20, 2011, 10:27:12 PM

I will keep an eye on this thread.

Blackjack - please post in BIG LETTERS when the combat update goes live to the regular servers.  If I hear generally positive things - I'm re-subbing for a month to check it out.

(thanks for the continual updates as well).
How big?  Will do. icon_smile

In the meantime, the remastered P'Jem (I think that's what Diplomatic Orders is, I could be mistaken) and Doomsday Device missions are now on live server and might be worth revisiting.

Remastered Episodes Now Live
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2459
Quote
Rediscover Star Trek Online with these Remastered Episodes: Diplomatic Orders and Doomsday Device. We've added some exciting new features that you're sure to enjoy!

These Remastered Episodes feature:

*Updated Stories, Cutscenes, and Voice Over
*A new and exciting conclusion to Doomsday Device
*New Rewards: Enjoy replaying Leonard Nimoy’s Spock voice over with a new Data Recorder or earn the Hargh’peng Torpedoes in Doomsday Device

We’ve also added new Rewards to our previously released remaster of Stranded in Space: the Azura Personal Com Code allows players to access their bank, mail or store from anywhere in the galaxy! You can also pick up a Klingon version, the Vov’wI Personal Com Code, from the Bringing Down the House episode.

Finally, to celebrate the release of these enhanced episodes, we’re offering players limited-time Bonus Emblems during our Remastered Episode Week which runs from May 27 to June 2.
And this is all clarified a bit more in the latest May 27 Release Notes:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=3559532#post3559532
Quote
General:
    The Romulan Episode Series rewards have been turned off.
        Specifically, the Reman Bridge Officer and Emblem Rewards.

    The Remastered Replay Week begins when this build goes live. This means:
    * There are new, optional emblem/badge rewards on every Remastered Mission, which includes "Stranded in Space". This mission has a new replay reward, the Azura Personal Com Code. This device will call in the Azura II when used in sector space and allow the player to access their bank from anywhere in the galaxy every 4 hours.
    
* The mission "Diplomatic Orders" has been remastered. There are new cutscenes, new VO, a new start to the mission and a new reward: A data recorder that will allow players to relisten to any of the Spock VO the player has unlocked in the game, as read by Leonard Nimoy.

* "Doomsday Device" has been remastered. This mission has been completely reimagined from the ground up; there are new cutscenes, VO, and major story updates! There is also a new reward: The Har’Pengh torpedo. The torpedo does initial kinetic damage to the target, and then the target get’s debuffed. If the debuff isn’t removed in 20 seconds there will be a secondary explosion on the ship.

* The Klingon Mission “Bringing Down the House” has been given special rewards and was reworked. This mission will now scale to level, Players can choose a level appropriate emblem/badge reward and the new reward Vov’wI Personal Com Code. This device will call in the Vov’wI when used in sector space and allow the player to access their bank from anywhere in the galaxy every 4 hours.

    The Peregrine Fighter can now be fully customized in the tailor.

    Teams will now spawn within a tighter radius of each other, alleviating issues where players would occasionally spawn inside of walls.
    500 day Veteran Rewards are in for players that have been subscribers for 500 days.
I think Azura and "Bringing Down the House" are the respective tutorial mission finales, right? I'm rusty on my Trek Fu.  icon_razz
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« Reply #1946 on: May 27, 2011, 07:36:04 PM »

Game is on sale today on Steam for $3.75. May jump in for the 30 days. I played Beta but never made the jump because of WoW. Is there still a GT guild around?

What's a good starting race/profession for soloing? Human/Engineer?
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« Reply #1947 on: May 27, 2011, 09:44:28 PM »

Quote from: Jag on May 27, 2011, 07:36:04 PM

Game is on sale today on Steam for $3.75. May jump in for the 30 days. I played Beta but never made the jump because of WoW. Is there still a GT guild around?

What's a good starting race/profession for soloing? Human/Engineer?
I don't really know if anyone is actively playing this anymore. We do still have a GamingTrend chat channel, which works in both STO and Champions. We did still have a guild, I can't quite recall the name.

I'm tempted to tell you to buy it but wait until the ground combat revamp goes in this summer. I just think that'll probably show the game off at its best, and perhaps the new Duty Officer system will be in place then too.

I might dabble in this weekend (am lifetime subscriber).
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« Reply #1948 on: June 08, 2011, 03:17:51 PM »

Time for another episode of...

Ask Cryptic,
June 2011:
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2472
Cherry picking a few things of interest...
Quote from: DStahl
Q: DecadeComplete What weekend is Tribble Test Weekend for Season 4 [this includes the ballyhooed ground combat revamp-bj]? What future plans do you have for fleets and fleet leaders?

A: We will be announcing a TRIBBLE TEST WEEKEND sometime towards the end of June; so stay tuned!. Over the course of Season 4, we will be introducing new Fleet Features, such as the Fleet Action Private Queue, and start talking about the possibilities of Fleet Progression and Starbases.
==========
Q: Kirkfat What can Foundry authors look forward to in the immediate and long-term future?

A: In the immediate future, Foundry authors can look forward to some much needed bug fixing and the eventual hook ups of new maps (such as Starfleet Academy) to the library. Long term, we plan to synch up with all the amazing Foundry work being done by the Neverwinter team and bring those new features over to STO to improve the toolset features. One thing I continue to stress is adding the ability for more "acting" and "blocking" features so that players can create their own dramatic scenes.
=============
Q: Anyndil01 Are there any plans to add scripting to the Foundry? Are there plans to develop an online interface for the duty officer system? Are there plans to develop some kind of simulated combat system (holodeck, combat drones, etc.) to test new equipment?

A: No. Yes. Maybe. (Champs has this and we've discussed adding something similar - especially to test new ships - but it is technically complicated to give ships and take them away.)
==============
Q: Ashur1 Any chance the auto-pilot in sector space could be more realistic ? In the vastnees of space it´s nearly impossible for two ships to bump into each other by accident. But why does my auto-pilot take evasive action taking me 20 ly off course ?

A: We have a programmer assigned to revamp auto-pilot in sector space after Season 4 launches. We want to allow players to click on a location several sectors away and have the auto-pilot plot your entire course. We can investigate the avoidance system at that time. [this would be very nice, esp. when you have to travel through multiple sectors to get somewhere-bj]
===============
Q: Zeta_Otaku With the new voice chat system coming into play, will that information be handled by a separate server system or the same cluster as the Holodeck server?

A: Vivox runs on its own servers and have little to no impact on Holodeck performance. In addition, we are making several major technology updates at the launch of Season 4 to improve both the amount of data needed to patch the game as well as allow the server to run more users and greater performance levels.
==============
Q: LordOfPit Are we ever going to get different types of Beam Turrets for ground combat, other than just the Phaser turret?

A: Ground turrets are being revamped as part of Ground Combat and there will be phaser and disruptor variants as well as three different firing modes depending on the level of the power.
==============
Q: Yoosty What will happen to the ground Weapons( i.e. Unc, Rare and Very Rare) we have already have bound on our Captain and BOF's and also in our Bank/Inventory when Season 4 goes Live.

A: The plan is that all of your weapons will be replaced with the new ground combat versions on the back end so that you shouldn't notice any change to what you own. When you log in, you'll be able to immediately start using your existing weapons in the new shooter mode.
==============
Q: Bran_Mak_Morrn Can we expect to see any Devs on when Season 4 hits Tribble, to help test / answer questions pertaining to Ground Combat?

A: Yes! The GMs and Devs are cooking up plans for some events on TRIBBLE to take place later this month as well as some informative video on how the new systems work. See you there!  
I'll definitely look into trying out season 4 and the new ground combat whenever it hits Tribble (test server), hopefully at month's end.
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« Reply #1949 on: June 10, 2011, 03:08:54 AM »

Season 4 going to Tribble in next week.

Full Release scheduled for July 7.

Hat tip to lordkosc on Qt3.

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« Reply #1950 on: June 16, 2011, 04:54:34 PM »

Anyone still playing this regularly? I played for a month or so when it was first released, but hadn't kept up with it at all.

Monday I was at EB trading in a couple old XB360 games and grabbed a new copy since it was only $8...it's definitely changed for the better and the stuff on the test server is pretty nice.

I'm not sure if I'll ever really 'commit' to an MMO again, but I wouldn't mind teaming up if I am playing.
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« Reply #1951 on: June 16, 2011, 07:10:09 PM »

I got the lifetime sub..(ok, I'll wait till you stop laughing)...I think I'm gonna jump back in and see what's shaking.
Gonna roll a fresh toon. I want to see the changes from top to bottom..

See ya in space..........
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« Reply #1952 on: June 16, 2011, 07:34:00 PM »

Cool, I'll likely be spending a ton of time on it over the weekend.

@Maahes13 is my account if you (or anyone else) wants to get together.

edit: adjusted the letter case in my account.  disgust
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 12:23:05 AM by Booner » Logged
CeeKay
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« Reply #1953 on: June 16, 2011, 07:36:35 PM »

Quote
Anyone still playing this regularly?

I can't remember if I grabbed another cheap copy to give it another shot.   Steam had it for half the price of a monthly sub, so I may have to give it another free shot. If not I'll wait for it to go free to play.
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« Reply #1954 on: June 16, 2011, 11:49:40 PM »

Been playing everyday since I started that Steam $3 sub. The space combat is giving me my ST fix. Just hit Lt. C today and got my new ship. The sub also gives you 500 points for the store.

I'm also making tons of money. I was collecting beginner crafting items and was curious how much they sold for on the Exchange. I had 4000 credits and felt rich! I see that each mineral sold for 7000 and some other drops I had sold for 150k. In one night I went from 4000 to 275,000 credits.

You also don't need Steam to play the version you bought on Steam. Just the key. You can launch directly from the steam directory or just download from the ST website directly.

I assume there is no guild still?

June 24 is a double XP weekend and i'm gone the entire weekend frown

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« Reply #1955 on: June 17, 2011, 12:49:53 AM »

As soon as the ground combat changes go in - (barring a world-ending bad review) - I think I'm trying it again.  I always liked ST:O though, so I will probably jump back to it from time to time throughout it's lifecycle.
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« Reply #1956 on: June 17, 2011, 01:00:15 AM »

Quote from: Jag on June 16, 2011, 11:49:40 PM

I assume there is no guild still?

June 24 is a double XP weekend and i'm gone the entire weekend frown

Jagg@Jagged1

Quick check says 13 people on this year ... most of them have not been on in quite a few months.  Anyway, guild invite sent.

We might get more traffic when they get the weekly episodes going again.
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« Reply #1957 on: June 17, 2011, 03:34:14 AM »

I've heard that it's really improved since launch. If so I might check it out. Let me know how it feels when you get back in!
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« Reply #1958 on: June 23, 2011, 05:36:47 PM »

For some player thoughts on the Ground Combat 2.0 Revamp on the test server, check this thread...

Official New Ground Combat Feedback Thread (Page 2, cause the revamp's launch on test server was delayed a bit at first)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=218937&page=2
While it's not all peaches and herbs, I've read quite a lot of positive feedback so far. But it seems apparent they still have a lot of important tweaking to do before it goes live.
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« Reply #1959 on: June 30, 2011, 12:04:46 PM »

Massively attempts to explain the duty officer system...
http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/23/captains-log-the-lower-decks/
Quote
Currently, there will be three different branches for the system: Tactical, Engineering and Science. While this follows the current trinity of the game, each branch is slated to have two departments. DOffs in the Tactical branch will work in the Tactical or Security departments, while Engineers will work in the Engineering and Operations departments. Science DOffs will work in the Science and Medical departments. Each department will be made up of multiple DOffs, while only one will be the Department Head -- more information on that in a moment.
...
When the system goes live, all players will get an initial set of DOffs, randomly selected from the over 6000 that have been created. Heretic tells us that we will want to look at each of them before we slot them in our active rosters, for some have passive skills that can greatly enhance abilities during space combat.

Every time you warp to a different part of the universe (or every several hours), you will be able to give your DOffs a different assignment. Patrolling in Eta Eridani? You may be able to send some DOffs on a covert mission to steal some classified information from the Klingons. Confronting the Breen in Orellius? You might need to send some DOffs to help find a diplomatic solution on the Defari homeworld. There are over 1000 assignments created so far.

At the end of each assignment, a few different outcomes can occur: critical success, success, failure, or disaster. While you might be rewarded with tangible goods, experience points, or currency, failures and disasters could result in injuries or even the death of your DOffs. Rewards are going to be better or worse based on the time required to complete the assignment, the rarity of it, and the outcome.
...
Just when you thought there was a lot to the system already, there will also be 12 new XP types that you can rank up in: Diplomacy (Federation), Marauding (Klingon), Science, Engineering, Medical, Military, Espionage, Colonial, Trade, Exploration, Development and Recruiting. Each of these categories has four levels to advance to and grants rewards in the form of titles, accolades, unique DOffs, unique BOffs, and access to special assignments.
...
Last but not least (and possibly the most exciting part of the DOff system), the Department Head and First Officer positions are scheduled to be rolled out shortly after the release of the rest of the system. Your BOffs will be able to be assigned to one of the six departments listed above -- as they head their respective department, the DOffs' passive abilities under them become active and affect their skills.
Though forum dev posts suggest this is all a long way still from the test server, much less implementation into the game.

Still, it sounds fascinating, like a "game within a game."
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 04:53:36 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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