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Author Topic: Regarding WoW lag: A ray of hope  (Read 5679 times)
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Interloper
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« on: November 13, 2004, 03:46:52 AM »

Dunno bout you guys, but I have been lagging very badly since day 2 of open beta.  I don't just mean ping either.  It seems that my ping could be 55 and I'll lag, and then jump to 400 and no lag.  Whatever the case it is frustrating.  I am/was hoping it was just incidental to being in beta phase and things being stressed.  I saw this post from a blizzard rep and it sounds like things will be better at retail, or at least that's what I get from it:  

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=599926&P=1
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Daehawk
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2004, 04:05:30 AM »

I have terrible item / loot lag. Everything plays fine until i go to loot something or get a item from a quest..then it just sits there and I cant do anything but run around or slide around and chat in global.
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2004, 05:27:09 AM »

I wish I could say I get your lag but I haven't had any problems with lag. Except for the first 30 minutes of the first stress test. But even then that wasn't so bad. I'm sure they will clear the lag up. I'm sure they are just pushing the boundries of the servers to see what they can get out of them.

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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2004, 03:07:24 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
I have terrible item / loot lag. Everything plays fine until i go to loot something or get a item from a quest..then it just sits there and I cant do anything but run around or slide around and chat in global.


This has been happening to me quite a bit lately.  Sometimes I still animate and stuff, but my clicks don't register for a while.  I ended up buying a couple thousand bullets on accident once because I didn't realize what was going on and they all registered after the system caught up.
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2004, 04:57:58 PM »

It's a database issue(s) they're having.  Notice that you can still chat, move around, but interacting with items gets hosed from time to time?  

SWG had similar problems upon launch.  The way they did crafting, to gain experience you needed to craft many items.  Each of those items had a unique id, and so you can imagine thousands of players crafting thousands of useless items.    

It'll get better. Maybe.
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Destructor
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2004, 05:26:21 PM »

Quote from: "Daehawk"
I have terrible item / loot lag. Everything plays fine until i go to loot something or get a item from a quest..then it just sits there and I cant do anything but run around or slide around and chat in global.

From what I hear, Blizzard only has one item server. In short, whenever anybody loots, their request goes all into that server, which is outrageously overloaded right now.

There wasn't this problem in Beta or even the Stress Test. However, thanks to the Open Beta (and the 500,000 people who signed up for it), they now know the weaknesses in their system.

Blizzard knows about this and will have it fixed at launch. At least they better. smile
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Calvin
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2004, 05:40:16 PM »

I really hope they deal with this, the closed servers were always so good frown
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Falator
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2004, 08:03:42 PM »

Bah hope? the servers have been going down quite a lot lately, i don't know why we should be hopeful  frown
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JCC
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2004, 09:50:01 PM »

Since the open beta, the lag has been really bad. I found it unplayable this afternoon. frown

They better have this resolved when it hits retail.
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Koz
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2004, 10:55:13 PM »

Yeah, I haven't been able to connect to anything all day.
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RedJak
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2004, 11:09:43 PM »

It seems like they have found two flaws.  One is the lag generated by all the database updates for large numbers of people.  But also handling these same large numbers of people trying to log back into the game after a restart.  

Last night I was playing with a friend when a restart was announced.  We logged out and after some trouble I was able to get back in. But it took my friend another 15 minutes after that to get it.  It was actually kind of cool since for awhile I did not see any other players in the game.  Made a "collect X number of widgets" quest very easy to complete.
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« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2004, 11:57:10 PM »

Quote from: "RedJak"
It seems like they have found two flaws.  One is the lag generated by all the database updates for large numbers of people.  But also handling these same large numbers of people trying to log back into the game after a restart.  

Like any hugely popular MMO, the login server simply isn't meant to handle 100,000 simulatinous login attempts. biggrin

EQ has had this issue for years. I think they finally got a second server which solved most of their problems, but I'm not sure on that.
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2004, 12:20:18 AM »

Too bad they're having major server issues as we speak.  frown   So much for playing on the weekend.  

I understand that they're supposed to be testing the servers, but constantly having such major issues really doesn't give me much confidence for when the game goes live in a week and a half.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2004, 12:23:40 AM »

The game is actually quite playable... if by playable you mean going around playing whack-a-mole and never picking up any items.
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2004, 12:56:55 AM »

Beta 1 was perfect, almost lag free while i leveld up a pally up to 9 this afternoon.
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Falator
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2004, 01:12:15 AM »

Yup, there does seem to be massive item pickup lag. The last time i tried today, i left my computer for about 10 minutes after getting hit by a "lag storm" and when i came back, i was still lagged out :lol:

It is rare to even be able to get to the server selection now and even if i could, the 2 servers i have characters on have been crapped out all day  :?

oh and anyone remember the shadowbane beta where there was massive lag and everyone was blaming it on the devs running debugging programs? well, after release, the lag and stability problems didn't just magically disapear, they were still there for a long time.

I might end up buying this game, but most certainly not on day 1. We have no way of knowing if the game will even be playable during our so called "free month."
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Calvin
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2004, 02:23:15 AM »

I know this is going to sound so damned snobby, but guys, I so wish they keep the closed beta servers. The players are, on the balance of things, so much more fun, more mature, and the lag is nonexistant.

Before Open Beta I publically lamented the oncoming onslaught of new players, and other than Console Golders and the like, I almost wish that MMORPGS were limited topeople with a demonstrable IQ over that of a complete moron.

Im not sure why I chose this tangent for this thread, but here we go smile
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Falator
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2004, 02:28:40 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
I know this is going to sound so damned snobby, but guys, I so wish they keep the closed beta servers. The players are, on the balance of things, so much more fun, more mature, and the lag is nonexistant.

Before Open Beta I publically lamented the oncoming onslaught of new players, and other than Console Golders and the like, I almost wish that MMORPGS were limited topeople with a demonstrable IQ over that of a complete moron.

Im not sure why I chose this tangent for this thread, but here we go smile

Closed beta accounts aren't given specifically to people who are good beta testers. They are more random. The size of the population does not matter. The % of idiots stays the same whether your population is 100 or 10000000.
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2004, 02:29:13 AM »

I SAID NO SOUP FOR YOU FALATOR
 :wink:
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Falator
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2004, 02:34:01 AM »

Quote from: "Rage"
I SAID NO SOUP FOR YOU FALATOR
 :wink:

U R THE WEKEST LINK GOODBI! Tongue
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Koz
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2004, 03:08:59 AM »

Woohoo, I can actually log in! Now I can't access a single realm, sweet! There aren't even any eastern or central servers for me.
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Falator
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2004, 04:06:15 AM »

servers have been down pretty much all day. when i was able to get on, the item lag made the game unplayable. Doesn't inspire much confidence to be having these problems this close to release.
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RedJak
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2004, 05:17:38 AM »

Well my server is back up and it looks like they have used the madhouse to impose some server limits.  When I logged in I was placed in a waiting queue which I have never experienced with this game before.   I do know that at full capacity so far I have not hit any of the obnoxious lag of earlier today or yesterday.  Seems like a good step.  Well, once I got in because I was grumbling while waiting in line.
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Interloper
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2004, 05:22:09 AM »

I've been lucky tonight, I got just over 5 hours in.  Took part in a horde raid of Darkehore NE territory.  God I love the rogue in pvp  slywink  *Ambush*  slywink   It was laggy though.  I really hope that what blizzard posted is true and that this is just a side effect of them stressing all the servers, trying to find that magic number.  I just hope they find the number by retail.
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Koz
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2004, 05:43:36 AM »

I got some time in on one of the servers, so I'm happy. Unfortunately the server I have my main char on (Test 11) always seems to be down.
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olaf
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2004, 05:50:49 AM »

Quote from: "Falator"
Quote from: "Rage"
I know this is going to sound so damned snobby, but guys, I so wish they keep the closed beta servers. The players are, on the balance of things, so much more fun, more mature, and the lag is nonexistant.

Before Open Beta I publically lamented the oncoming onslaught of new players, and other than Console Golders and the like, I almost wish that MMORPGS were limited topeople with a demonstrable IQ over that of a complete moron.

Im not sure why I chose this tangent for this thread, but here we go smile

Closed beta accounts aren't given specifically to people who are good beta testers. They are more random. The size of the population does not matter. The % of idiots stays the same whether your population is 100 or 10000000.

That is incorrect.  I would guess that a majority of closed beta testers were not randomly selected.  A good percentage were people from friends and family.  After that, high level EQ guilds were overly represented, as one guild per EQ server was actively targeted by Blizzard and given at least 30 keys.  Journalists (and I use that word loosely...basically anything with any kind of a web or print presence was given at least one key) were also overrepresented.  Only during the last wave or two of additions were the testers anything close to randomly chosen.

olaf
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Gedd
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2004, 01:59:40 PM »

We managed to get several hours of lag-free play in last night on Test 1.  We got hit with the queue, so it took about 10 minutes for us to actually get in, but once we did it was smooth, just like in the closed beta days.

One funny thing I noticed, my wife actually hit the queue about 5 minutes before I did, but I got access to my characters right about the same time she did.  I wonder if they're doing something with IPs so folks on the same IP get in at the same time.  If so, that'd be really cool.

The one thing I'm curious about is if the item lag problem has actually been fixed or if it's just the server population limits that are in place at the moment.  I guess we'll find out soon enough as they're supposed to be raising the population limit in phases to make sure things are working ok.
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2004, 03:06:35 PM »

Here's an offical post from a few days ago in case anyone missed it:
Quote

Hi all,

A number of inquiries have come in about the lag issues on some of the servers, so we want to take some time to provide more in-depth information for you. Some of you might be surprised to learn that the lag you?re experiencing is an expected and necessary part of the open beta test. Contrary to what some of you might believe, the open beta test is intended as a massive stress test, and not just a free demo of the game prior to launch.

Having hundreds of thousands of testers playing the game at this time lets us analyze how well our server infrastructure -- made up of the best, most up-to-date hardware available -- can handle extremely large server populations. In fact, the open beta test is allowing us to simulate having an even greater number of testers spread across even more servers than we currently have up. In terms of concurrency, we?re already seeing servers with twice as much population as we had during the closed beta test, and our total overall concurrency, across all servers, is already rivaling that of the most popular MMORPGs currently available. Keep in mind, also, that this population is distributed across a relatively small number of servers -- again, for the exact purpose of stress testing them.

In general, lag issues are caused when thousands of players congregate in one or two zones on a server. When this happens, the normal communication that comes from the server -- which includes information about every NPC, monster, player, item, etc. in the area -- increases to the point where the flow of data can get backed up.

For those of you who are concerned about server stability and possible loss of character-related information, take heart knowing that the lag you experience when this backup happens is not at all related to stability; it?s more of an issue with how quickly the data is handled. That is, with an excess of communication from the servers, the data remains stable, it just has to wait its turn in line to be processed. Running a massive open beta test like this allows us to steadily optimize how the data is processed.

With half a million people having signed up and been accepted into the open beta test, we have the unique opportunity of being able to fine tune our code prior to release in a way that most other MMORPGs have not. These code optimizations are done server side and do not require players to patch. As more and more testers finish their beta-client installations and start logging on, we?ll be able to do even more analysis and optimization prior to release. While this process brings about a challenge for those of you facing lag issues, it ultimately helps us maintain our schedule of analyzing and optimizing our code for all of our servers, including the ones that have yet to be brought online.

We are looking forward to having hundreds of thousands of players enter the world of Azeroth on November 23, and we?re grateful that you all have the interest and the patience to help us do this last, sometimes challenging, bit of testing. Your assistance with this will truly help us ensure that World of Warcraft will run as smoothly as possible at launch.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=599926&p=1&tmp=1#post599926

s
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2004, 04:53:16 PM »

That was actuallly the post linked to at the beginning of this thead which started the whole conversation.
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2004, 05:18:35 PM »

These problems just aren't go to magically disapear on day 1. The item lag is still there sometimes. Most of the time it isn't, but it does show itself at times (although not as bad as it was).

The servers also seem to be DOA now too. Their server stability is terribe at the moment (they go down all of the time) and as said earlier (and proved by shadowbane beta), problems like this don't just clear up after beta ends, they continue on until fixed.
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« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2004, 05:22:37 PM »

Quote from: "EngineNo9"
That was actuallly the post linked to at the beginning of this thead which started the whole conversation.

Whoops, looks like those reading lessons haven't sunk in yet. Tongue

s
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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2004, 10:10:23 PM »

Bah problems are still there. I run out and kill some things. After a few items have been looted, i crash and when i log back on, i am back in town as if i never left.

Debugging software my ass.
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Gryndyl
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2004, 10:17:56 PM »

Quote from: "Falator"
Bah problems are still there. I run out and kill some things. After a few items have been looted, i crash and when i log back on, i am back in town as if i never left.

Debugging software my ass.


When was this?? My roommate and I played virtually all day yesterday with only the very occasional hiccup of lag. Maybe just the server you're on?
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2004, 10:21:05 PM »

Yeah, I've lost a few hours of progress already today from getting disconnected and reset back in town prior to finishing quests and such.  Then half the time I can't even get reconnected or find my characters on the servers.  What a bunch of horseshit.

Quote from: "Gryndyl"
Quote from: "Falator"
Bah problems are still there. I run out and kill some things. After a few items have been looted, i crash and when i log back on, i am back in town as if i never left.

Debugging software my ass.


When was this?? My roommate and I played virtually all day yesterday with only the very occasional hiccup of lag. Maybe just the server you're on?


It's happening constantly on servers in the Pacific and supposedly Mountain zones.  Blizzard finally put a short post up about it in their server status forum a little bit ago, although it of course gives no useful info other than "we know the servers are sucking ass for you".
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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2004, 10:38:22 PM »

So the eastern servers work then? hmmm maybe i should get back to my human paladin then since he is down there. I do want to play my tauren hunter more though (on pacific, server 7 i think) :?
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« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2004, 10:47:13 PM »

I haven't been able to log into mountain test 12 all day, so I created a paladin on a central server.  Kinda laggy, but not too bad.  Fun class.
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« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2004, 12:50:02 AM »

Now the Pacific and Mountain servers are going down for maintenance for about an hour.  Hopefully that fixes at least some of the crappy problems of the last few days!
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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2004, 02:25:34 PM »

The lag has gotten much better, at least on Test 1, since Sunday.  Ogre commented on the boards that pets were mucking up the database some, so that might be part of the problem as well, which he fixed.

Also keep in mind that Bliz has said that they're intentionally running the servers at higher capacity than is intended for release to root out these kinds of issues.  I would assume that server pops will be a bit lower than they were last week at release and that they'll add more servers if the pops are at the right level.

As for the server stability, some of it is crashing, but I bet they're doing a lot of server-side fixes at this point, which usually requires restarts and such.  I know Sunday during the day was pretty bad, but I think they were ironing out the lag issues during that time.
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Koz
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« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2004, 03:01:11 PM »

Yeah, besides occasional server downtimes, I've had few issues with lag since Saturday. I did get booted a couple times yesterday which messed up a quest, but otherwise things were very smooth.
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« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2004, 03:08:05 PM »

Last night the pacific servers (well, server 7 i at least) were still screwed up. Everyone was freezing for no reason.
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