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Author Topic: My problems with COH  (Read 2561 times)
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Raven
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« on: June 13, 2005, 07:04:18 PM »

Well, I canceled my account, before my free trial expired.

I've got to say that COH is one weird ass mmorpg. I can't understand how they could do such a fantastic job with character creation and design, and suck at everything else.

A few of my problems:

1. the game has grind
2. the zones are boring - they all look cookie cutter
3. the missions are boring - they all look cookie cutter
4. not easy to re-spec
5. death penalty

It's like the developer poured all their creativity into the class system, and didn't have anything left over for the rest of the game.

Here are a few ideas:

City Zoo: this zone has been taken over by a mad scientist, who mutates all the animals into various types of monsters.

Vintage Heroes: this zone is in a time warp - all the npcs, villians, and environment come straight out of the 40s

Wild West: this zone is a theme park taken over by villians or maybe it's a portal to an old mining town
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Gedd
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2005, 08:55:47 PM »

Out of curiosity Raven, what level did you get to?  Some of your arguments are pretty valid in the low-end game, but things change a bit as you get higher (the environments become a bit more varied and such).
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Raven
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2005, 09:11:34 PM »

It took all of my willpower to make 14th. I really wanted to get Flight, as I've never had that ability in a mmorpg. After I bought the power, I spent a couple of hours flying all over the zones, and then I camped and canceled my account.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2005, 11:29:27 AM »

I felt very much the same way, Raven.  I only got to level 11 before bailing...
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Guy Incognito
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2005, 02:15:10 PM »

14 was pretty rough my first time through.  The travel power kept me going for a long time through the lower levels and once I got it I wasn't sure what my new goal was.  It really is a new game once you hit 20 and everything starts changing (add in Striga and it's fantastic)
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Misguided
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2005, 12:06:30 PM »

You not liking it doesn't translate to "suck".
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Raven
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2005, 12:18:38 PM »

Quote from: "Misguided"
You not liking it doesn't translate to "suck".


My complaints mirror what other ex players have said about the game.
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Misguided
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2005, 11:56:17 PM »

I didn't have time to write a real response this morning, but I can elaborate now.

I have no issue whatsoever with you not liking CoH. It clearly isn't for everyone. I'm not at all certain any game is. However, I take issue when someone blindly proclaims that it "sucks".

Let's take a look at your list of issues:

1. the game has grind

ok. My understanding is that compared to the majority of other MMO games (WoW may be an exception here, but I can only personally speak with reference to Anarchy Online) that the grind in CoH is rather modest. Frankly, it is virtually nonexistent in the levels you have experience with (though there can be a blip around 11-12 with some builds). Seriously, if you thought THAT was a grind try the 40s. I have the strong suspicion you played solo all the time or most of it, or had some bad pickup teams.


2. the zones are boring - they all look cookie cutter

This is a reasonable statement...sort of. Hollows is fairly interesting actually. The early zones are dull as dishwater, but you've hardly scratched the surface of what the game has to offer, and have had zero opportunity to see the coolest zones in the game. I think it is unfortunate that all the early zones are so bland, but who cares...they only exist to get to your next mission anyway for the most part.

3. the missions are boring - they all look cookie cutter

I really have to disagree here. I think the missions are quite diverse in appearance, and the art team is adding more all of the time. Now a year ago, I think you'd have had a much better complaint. SInce then have have added custom art to many individual missions, quite a few of which I have yet to see. Furthermore, I still, after over a year of play, I still occasionally stumble across set pieces I swear I''ve never seen.

Heck, to me the bigger issue is that while some of the missions have neat stories they all basically amount to click this or defeat that. That's a much more valid complaint, IMO. I believe this is getting some attention when CoV arrives or shortly thereafter.

4. not easy to re-spec

I'm just not getting this one at all. For goodness sakes you can get to level 6 in a couple of hours. You only made it to 14. What in the world is so borked about your hero you need a respec already? Besides, the respec trial is extremely well done.
 
5. death penalty

What about it? Have you played in an MMO without one? I have, and let me tell you something, it sucks pondwater. I like the debt system in CoH. It provides incentive not to be stupid without punishing you. No lost items, no lost levels, no corpse runs. no rez sickness (well, a few seconds depending on method). It is extremely mild.

A few nights ago, I had the toughest night of my career. 5 or 6 defeats in one night. I worked every last bit of it off in a couple of hours.

now, on to other matters....

The game is supposed to take place in a real, modern city.
While some of your ideas sound like fun (and I think the dev team is looking to branch out more now that the ciity itself is well defined) they also sound straight out of some wacky platform game and would little place in the game at this point.

You haven't seen it most likely, but in Peregrine island there's a stargate...I mean fargate...oh whatever, that you can go through and visit other dimensions. So far (with one exception) they've all been really boring to be honest, but thhere's certainly room to expand into some stuff of that nature and I hope they do, after CoV is up and running.

I'm reminded of a person who was in our supergroup briefly. He asked in group chat when the game got interesting. Lokiju responded "At character creation" or something to that effect. And for many of us, that is perfectly true and it hasn't disappointed us since.

Incidentally, I should say I'm not a comic book junkie. I don't read them, don't know that much about them. Still, I like the idea of having cool powers, and love the wildly chaotic combat of CoH. I became interested in the game shortly after it launched and have played steadily ever since. It did away with most of the things that kept me away from MMO games for years: no camping, no uber loot, no PKing, no moronic guilds controlling entire zones.

Heck, maybe you want to kill other players while they wait a week in line to play whack-a-boss. I got no problem with that, That game isn't for me and this one isn't for you.
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Raven
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2005, 12:14:56 AM »

Number one, COH should be fun from the get go. The idea that you have to level up in order to advance past the suck is so EQ. I'm simply not going to put up with that anymore.

Second, if COH developers want to save their most interesting zones and missions for higher levels, that's their choice, but they shouldn't be surprised when low level players grow bored and quit.

Third, I don't want to have to suffer through the lower levels a second time, just because I purchased the wrong power. I could care less that this can be done in only a few hours,  since I'd rather spend those few hours doing something else.

The bottom line is that COH does not make a good first impression, and not everyone has the time to stick around, hoping that things improve, after they grind through the lower levels.

Quote

The game is supposed to take place in a real, modern city.
While some of your ideas sound like fun (and I think the dev team is looking to branch out more now that the ciity itself is well defined) they also sound straight out of some wacky platform game and would little place in the game at this point.


Hello, it's a comic book game!

Nothing I suggested doesn't already happen in comics - jeesh. What's the point of having a comic book mmorpg, if there isn't any cool strange wacky bizarre stuff to go do and explore.
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Doomboy
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2005, 01:33:09 AM »

Last October, I was so fed up with City of Heroes (for many of the same reasons as Raven), that I just couldn't even force myself to start the game up.  I quit in disgust and vowed never to return.

Afterwards, I played WoW for five months, and at the end of that five months, I was sick to death of the other players in WoW.  To the point that I just couldn't force myself to start the game up.  I quit in disgust, and decided to try City of Heroes again, since most of my friends were still playing.

Since then, I have been happily playing City of Heroes.  Most of the things that pissed me off so much seem so silly now.  Debt was a big one, but it is very easy to get rid of now.  Much easier than it felt before.  The other players aren't out to screw me over in CoH, which is what it felt like a lot in WoW.

I don't know what it is about it, but I am once again enjoying being a superhero.  It is much quicker to get into and around in than WoW was.  I do miss some of the complexity of WoW, but I am hopeful that City of Villains will add some more complexity to the game.
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Misguided
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2005, 12:24:42 PM »

Raven, I think you make a valid point in regard to "saving the best", but the truth of the matter is that I (and many others) think the combat in the game is extraordinarily fun right out of the gate.

You get the core game from the start. The rest is just window dressing, with a few notable exceptions (e.g. travel powers).

If you don't like the opening levels, you aren't going to like the later stuff. Even if they had the kind of stuff you are referring to, I have the strong feeling you'd be quitting for other reasons, because this simply isn't the right game for you.

See, I thought fighting robots, zombies, and notzis from level 1 was pretty darned cool.
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Guy Incognito
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2005, 01:58:34 PM »

The best parts of the game, IMO, are the things that were added on.  They didn't have as much time as they would have liked when first launching the game to go into tons of detail.

A lot of the lower level game is spent learning the mechanics of the game.  I enjoyed the combat and trying all of the different stuff at lower levels.  After the first time or two through the lower levels, it gets a *ton* faster to level because you know where to go and what to do.

Part of the reason there is more stuff at the higher levels is because it takes longer to level.  There has to be more content.  That said, there are always improvements by the art team coming down the pipes for the lower level content.  I recently created a new character and one of his first missions was in the bland office building mission *but* they had redone all the art and turned it into a disco with strobe lights and such.  It was a minor touch but added a lot.

There are lots of people who are alt-aholics and spend all of their time in the lower levels trying out various combinations of archtypes and powersets.  They seem to enjoy the lower level game due to its lack of grind compared to higher levels.

I wouldn't worry about it though, Raven.  Not everyone will like the game.  It would be impossible to please everyone.  The basics of the game stay the same and you probably wouldn't like the higher levels.  Though you could always take Doomboy's approach and wait a while before giving it another shot.
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2005, 03:34:40 PM »

Quote from: "Misguided"
I have no issue whatsoever with you not liking CoH. It clearly isn't for everyone. I'm not at all certain any game is. However, I take issue when someone blindly proclaims that it "sucks".


I think you are just taking it the wrong way. If I say a game "sucks", I am saying I do not like the game, nothing more is implied. Its a personal opinion, not an attack on other people's view of the game. And he did not "blindly proclaim" that it sucks. He pointed out some pretty specific reasons why he thought it sucked. Don't take it so personal. I am sure there are things you like that I think suck, whether it be a fast-food resteraunt, movie, computer game, etc.
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Misguided
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2005, 04:59:09 PM »

You've got a point, Toe.
Perhaps you're right.

*shrug* it's no big deal. As I've tried to say, not every game is for everyone, and that's ok.
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Raven
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« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2005, 02:43:22 PM »

Doh!

If I had just waited a few weeks, I could have sampled COH for free.

30 bucks down the drain, for nothing.

Kaaaaahhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnn
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gilgamex
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2005, 09:41:45 PM »

Having played a modest amount of MMOs (UO, AO, SWG, EQ2, COH), COH and SWG are the only ones that I return to every few months. I go on MMO cycles. 2-3 months with one before i get bored and then usually a month or 2 off, then I fire a different one up for a little while... etc. The only 2 games that I have quit and returned to is COH and SWG. Everytime I return to COH after playing the slower paced games like EQ2 or SWG, COH feels so refreshing and liberating.  I am currently unsubscribed to COH but I know for sure that I will return to it again. (the same may not be true for my other staple SWG).

I found the higher end zones to be very interesting and had no idea that there was so much more to the game. I almost have a maxxed character finally (level 47 Dark Scrapper). My goal for the next run will certainly be to unlock the alien archetypes.

I dunno... i grew up on comics which probably explains why I like this game so much (as well as FF and FFvsTTR). If I can't wear skin tight speedoes in real life I may as well do it in the digital world!
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Morgul
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2005, 03:01:22 PM »

I really liked COH.  I had a Dark/dark scrapper and a AR blaster.  I REALLY liked playing the scrapper, and had a blast.  My wife was whatever class it was that could summon the glowing balls to follow her around.   the game was fast paced and fun.

Super jump rocks!   There is no substitute.


But, unfortunatley, after about 45 days or so the fun ended for me.   Ran out of ways to build your character once you got all the good abilities, (think this was like level 40), no loot, so when character progression stopped it was kinda over for me.

There was only one raid at the time, something down in a sewer...

But I loved the game, and could play it again...

It just didnt have the long term  staying power to keep me interested after all the primary abilities were bout, you ended up spending points on junk you skipped at the lower levels..   But, I am a powergamer type and the game was rather easy, so thats why I went so fast.

I could fire this game up and have a ball though I am sure for another month or two easy...    
/shrug.  

So, I liked the game alot.  Expecially for the more casual crowd.

Complaint would be lack of progression after level 40, lack of raiding materials, and the instances were all the same maps over and over with different mobs, and imo it was just a bit to easy.

Oh yea, the mentor thing got used and abused.   You could park a level 1 in bricktown and run your amin around and PL up characters like no tommorow.....   Which kinda sucked.  but, this was a long time ago, maybe they plugged up the exploit by now...    They tried to fix it twice when I was there, but never did the job...   I may be sketchy on the exact details on some of this(leves and such), was before eq2 came out when I played, but, thats my opinion on the game.

Bottomline, a damn good one imo.   But, lacked the staying power of a EQ1 typoe game, which kept me hooked for years.  (also, some old muds kept mehooked for years)

EQ2 hooked me for about 8 months though, so maybe its jsut the sign of the times...  /shrug

Also, I like treadmills and grinding sometimes too, heh..  sure not as the only thing to do, but, I like it as a variation.  the newer games (including eq2 and perhaps wow) all seem to be way too fast leveling to me.   Wish they would cut it down alot....   But I am probably the minority on that.
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