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Author Topic: LotRO goes Free to PLay  (Read 13734 times)
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Alefroth
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« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2010, 05:25:05 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on June 05, 2010, 06:32:05 AM

Quote from: TiLT on June 04, 2010, 09:32:04 PM

Quote from: ericb on June 04, 2010, 07:32:42 PM

I have a feeling the backlash is going to be huge though...especially for the people who bought lifetime subs in the past six months or so.

I still don't see the logic behind that statement.

I'm not one of those people, so I can't say for sure, but it might be along the lines of they're not getting what they were paying for.  These people paid what, $200?  Correct that figure if I'm wrong.  That's a lot of cash, and they spent it thinking it would be guaranteeing them access to the game for as long as it's live.  Now they find that they'd be getting access anyway, along with the rest of the world, and instead they'll be getting this bonus stuff for their money.

The key issue is that the bonus stuff is not what they paid for.  I highly doubt that if it had been explained to them at the time that their money will make no difference to access to the game but they'll be able to buy as many shiny cloaks as they like, then the same number of people would've handed over the cash.

It's not an illogical viewpoint at all.  They paid money for one thing only to find that the money has now got them something else, something they may not have wanted - at least not enough to spend $200.

Nobody will be getting access to the game the lifers are getting access to without paying for it.

Nothing changed for the lifers. They still get access to the game without a monthly fee. That's all the agreement ever stated.

Ale

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Alefroth
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« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2010, 05:33:50 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on June 05, 2010, 08:05:20 AM

As I keep saying - who would've bought a lifetime sub recently knowing that this is what would happen?  Far fewer people, I'd bet.

I don't understand why they wouldn't. Is there something tangible they won't be getting now?

Ale
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« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2010, 06:09:52 PM »

The differences between a 'paid' sub (one that instead of buying things with points, just pays the usual $15 a month, just like you can still do in DDO), are going to be vast.

Limited character slots, limited bank slots, limited class access, limited race access, limited dungeon access, limited content access. It could be more or less than this, as I don't know all the details, but I'm going on how DDO works.

If you're a Lifetime sub, as well as a Paying sub, you'll both get the same things - the game will continue to have all the options open to you without purchasing anything else (short of expansion content IF you didn't buy the expansions, maybe). The advantage of a Lifetime sub is that you won't have to give the devs anything else just to treated like a paying customer.

So yes, you're getting exactly what you paid for - you get treated like you're paying a monthly fee without paying anything additional.
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« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2010, 08:42:23 PM »

Hell, if you're a lifetimer and don't dig into the LOTRO store, you can probably base yourself on getting any future expansion for the game for free too using your Turbine points that you'll automatically receive each month. The deal actually got better for lifetimers.
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« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2010, 10:43:53 PM »

the people who aren't paying aren't really getting the same game though.  There are areas and things that VIP members get that free don't.
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vizionblind
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« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2010, 05:12:27 AM »

sucks for lifetimers
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« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2010, 05:59:41 AM »

Quote from: vizionblind on June 06, 2010, 05:12:27 AM

sucks for lifetimers

My most heartfelt thanks for reading the entire thread before posting.
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« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2010, 06:14:19 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 06, 2010, 05:59:41 AM

Quote from: vizionblind on June 06, 2010, 05:12:27 AM

sucks for lifetimers

My most heartfelt thanks for reading the entire thread before posting.

LOL
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« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2010, 01:40:07 PM »

as a lifetime subscriber it seems to me they are going out of their way to make us feel "wanted".  The only possible impact could be re-rolling characters in the "basic" game and even then their redesigns of those areas make them easy to solo.  Overall for us lifetime people this is a good thing as they should generate more dev dollars to create more expansions.  But maybe I'm missing something
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« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2010, 03:45:02 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on June 06, 2010, 01:40:07 PM

as a lifetime subscriber it seems to me they are going out of their way to make us feel "wanted".  The only possible impact could be re-rolling characters in the "basic" game and even then their redesigns of those areas make them easy to solo.  Overall for us lifetime people this is a good thing as they should generate more dev dollars to create more expansions.  But maybe I'm missing something

nah, you are not - this is the way I'm seeing it as well... The game just got its lifeexpectancy upped by quite a lot as well, the way I see it - so, all in all its very good for everyone
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« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2010, 12:12:15 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 06, 2010, 03:45:02 PM

Quote from: Jaddison on June 06, 2010, 01:40:07 PM

as a lifetime subscriber it seems to me they are going out of their way to make us feel "wanted".  The only possible impact could be re-rolling characters in the "basic" game and even then their redesigns of those areas make them easy to solo.  Overall for us lifetime people this is a good thing as they should generate more dev dollars to create more expansions.  But maybe I'm missing something

nah, you are not - this is the way I'm seeing it as well... The game just got its lifeexpectancy upped by quite a lot as well, the way I see it - so, all in all its very good for everyone

I agree on all counts...but at the same time they should offer people who recently purchased a lifetime account the option of a refund.  It doesn't matter if it's better, if the game is going to last years longer, if nothing has really "changed".  The fact is these people bought their account for the primary purpose of not paying a monthly fee to a paid MMO and not for bonus points or priority access to a free MMO.

I'm paid up right now through sometime next year and I like the changes but at the same time I'm playing $3 a month.  I have a feeling the people who just dropped 75.00 pounds (UK) or $200-$300 US don't feel the same way no matter how it's justified.

I am looking forward to the changes myself.  I can't wait for the increased storage options or maybe the ability to get expansions with some of the points I'll build up over the summer.
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Razgon
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« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2010, 01:08:49 PM »

I dont understand at all where you are coming from - you say yourself nothing has changed for lifers, they only got a better deal, so why the fuss?

anyways- here's an interesting post-mortem on DDOs change to F2P which is pretty convincing as to why the change will be great as a business model for LOTRO, which is something it desperately needs.

http://doublebuffered.com/2010/05/13/login-2010-how-turbine-supercharged-ddo-by-adopting-a-hybrid-business-model/

•The press response at launch was amazing. Was called “accessible” despite being a hardcore rpg, purely because of the monetization model. Automatically became casual friendly.
•2 Million new players since launch. 20% reacquisition of cancelled players. Acquisition costs drastically reduced, with 3x click through on ads. 5x Peak concurrent. 10x Montly uniques. 5x revenue. Even better is still growing, last month was best yet.
•Store was a big success. Was a web-based UI, and they put a lot of effort into it. Invested heavily in Customer Support to deal with shop issues. 70% of items in cart ended up going to checkout. > 20% of total players bought items. Even better, > 50% of subscribers ended up using store. Sales were effective. You have to promote and support your store throughout your entire system.
•By units, top sellers are resurrection cakes, experience boosts, potion packs, sigil of levelling before they cancelled it, loot bosts, and at the very end equipment
•By revenue, top sellers are the 32-point build (which allowed slightly better new characters), xp boost, +2 to all stats tome, Drow and favored soul races, character slots, monk
•Demographics shifted. Audience moved younger and more casual, both in play style and hours. But changes were relatively minor, stil a high hours per week game.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 01:10:28 PM by Razgon » Logged

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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2010, 05:54:33 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 07, 2010, 01:08:49 PM

I dont understand at all where you are coming from - you say yourself nothing has changed for lifers, they only got a better deal, so why the fuss?

He explained it right in the next sentence:

Quote from: ericb on June 07, 2010, 12:12:15 AM

The fact is these people bought their account for the primary purpose of not paying a monthly fee to a paid MMO and not for bonus points or priority access to a free MMO.
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TiLT
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« Reply #53 on: June 07, 2010, 06:01:59 PM »

And the primary purpose of the account is still to avoid those monthly fees. LOTRO may become free to play now, but that doesn't mean it's free to play, if you see what I mean. slywink If you were to play the game after the release of the FTP system without VIP access, you'd find that you are out of content to play at or before level 22. You'd find that you would never be able to buy a horse since those cost more than you can own at one time. You'd be underpowered for your level (after level 10 or so) since your traits are severely limited. You'd only be able to play one character on each server.

It's not about priority access. It's about access. FTP is a glorified demo where you can buy the game piece by piece. Lifetime membership skips all that and gives you everything (that isn't part of an expansion). I seriously doubt that there's any way to reach the same amount of content (and let's not forget the bonus points every month!) as the Lifetimers by just purchasing individual pieces of the game without crossing the total price of a lifetime membership anyway, and then you'd still have to keep buying when new content is released (example: The new region, Enedwaith, will be free for VIP members. Free or Premium players have to purchase it separately).
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« Reply #54 on: June 07, 2010, 06:44:04 PM »

Aye, I think the problem here is, some of you dont seem understand what the F2P option here means - it doenst mean anyone gets the game for free, not by a far mile.  there are still pay-per-month subscriptions for the full game, and lifetimers, as was the deal, gets to avoid that, just as was promised and bargained for

edit: and I dont mean the above in an insulting way, just that it seems we talking competley past each other
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 06:47:38 PM by Razgon » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: June 07, 2010, 07:57:16 PM »

Hmm my interest has dropped again, sounds like it will be a severely crippled F2P version.  I was hoping it would be more of a Guild Wars model.
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« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2010, 08:04:13 PM »

What about people who already have horses and multiple characters. Will those become inaccessible when playing F2P?
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« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2010, 08:08:06 PM »

Quote from: skystride on June 07, 2010, 07:57:16 PM

Hmm my interest has dropped again, sounds like it will be a severely crippled F2P version.  I was hoping it would be more of a Guild Wars model.

The thing to keep in mind is that it only "cripples" you gradually. You can buy content at a slow rate, and if you halfway through your character's advancement realize you don't really like the game after all, you haven't spent much on it. My post above may give the impression that once you hit level 22 you'll have to buy a ton of content at once to progress, but that's not the case. The way it'll probably work is that you'll have offers from two NPCs wanting to send you to different regions. You make a choice about which region you think sounds most promising (Lone-lands or North Downs) and purchase an adventure pack for that region (probably for around $3-4 if I were to venture a guess), which gives you an extra 80-200 quests to do. You'll have a lot of control over what you'll have access to, and LOTRO is known for being so large at this point that you can easily skip entire regions on your way to the maximum level. And if you wanted access to everything, you'd subscribe as a VIP member, which is where the Lifetime offer comes in as they will never lose their VIP membership and will thus always have access to all the non-expansion content (and they won't lose expansion content once they've bought it).
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« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2010, 08:12:12 PM »

Quote from: Jag on June 07, 2010, 08:04:13 PM

What about people who already have horses and multiple characters. Will those become inaccessible when playing F2P?

Horses, no. Characters, maybe. Let's take me as an example. I have the default 5 character slots I started with when I bought the original game, plus 2 slots from Mines of Moria and 2 slots from the Adventurer's Pack, for a grand total of 9 slots. If I were to cancel my subscription after F2P is released, I'd become a Premium member. They get 3 character slots, but since I've bought Mines of Moria and the Adventurer's Pack, I still get to keep the slots from those. My new grand total would then be 7.

If I actually had 9 different characters when that happened, the game would present me with a selection screen where I would get to choose the 7 characters I'd like to keep playing. The remaining two would be locked away until I became a VIP again (Edit: or bought more slots in the store), but wouldn't be deleted.

Essentially, you'll never lose anything you've obtained because your membership changes (though actual content you previously had access to but hadn't done might be inaccessible). Limits on stuff such as gold and inventory bags are lifted if you've been a VIP member at any point in time.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 09:24:10 PM by TiLT » Logged
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« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2010, 09:56:49 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 07, 2010, 08:12:12 PM

Quote from: Jag on June 07, 2010, 08:04:13 PM

What about people who already have horses and multiple characters. Will those become inaccessible when playing F2P?

Horses, no. Characters, maybe. Let's take me as an example. I have the default 5 character slots I started with when I bought the original game, plus 2 slots from Mines of Moria and 2 slots from the Adventurer's Pack, for a grand total of 9 slots. If I were to cancel my subscription after F2P is released, I'd become a Premium member. They get 3 character slots, but since I've bought Mines of Moria and the Adventurer's Pack, I still get to keep the slots from those. My new grand total would then be 7.

If I actually had 9 different characters when that happened, the game would present me with a selection screen where I would get to choose the 7 characters I'd like to keep playing. The remaining two would be locked away until I became a VIP again (Edit: or bought more slots in the store), but wouldn't be deleted.

Essentially, you'll never lose anything you've obtained because your membership changes (though actual content you previously had access to but hadn't done might be inaccessible). Limits on stuff such as gold and inventory bags are lifted if you've been a VIP member at any point in time.

I've been reading the forums and FAQs and I don't think it works that way.  I think it only applies to new players and not existing players.  So you will keep your 9 slots no matter what if you have 9 slots when it goes F2P.  Of course every single bit of it is still up in the air and that answer may or may not change by tomorrow.
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« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2010, 04:35:09 AM »

Quote from: ericb on June 07, 2010, 09:56:49 PM

I've been reading the forums and FAQs and I don't think it works that way.  I think it only applies to new players and not existing players.  So you will keep your 9 slots no matter what if you have 9 slots when it goes F2P.  Of course every single bit of it is still up in the air and that answer may or may not change by tomorrow.

I've been reading the forums as well, and I'm fairly certain I'm right. Character slots is not one of the limits on Premium accounts that gets lifted when you've been a VIP member at any point in time. The community managers in the forums have said what I said about the extra slots from the MoM expansion and the Adventurer's Pack. I'd guess you're mixing up that with a reply about the main slots.
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« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2010, 11:43:37 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 08, 2010, 04:35:09 AM

Quote from: ericb on June 07, 2010, 09:56:49 PM

I've been reading the forums and FAQs and I don't think it works that way.  I think it only applies to new players and not existing players.  So you will keep your 9 slots no matter what if you have 9 slots when it goes F2P.  Of course every single bit of it is still up in the air and that answer may or may not change by tomorrow.

I've been reading the forums as well, and I'm fairly certain I'm right. Character slots is not one of the limits on Premium accounts that gets lifted when you've been a VIP member at any point in time. The community managers in the forums have said what I said about the extra slots from the MoM expansion and the Adventurer's Pack. I'd guess you're mixing up that with a reply about the main slots.


Well, I've read conflicting threads about this but it looks like (according to an official post) that you're right and a VIP who downgrades will lose access to 2 character slots.  So my 9 slots will go to 7 (unless I purchase the additional 2 slots in the store) if I drop to premium access.

They really need to go in and delete threads in the F2P section that are giving out conflicting or incorrect information.
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« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2010, 04:23:59 PM »

Here's what I can't quite figure out: the FAQ's say that you'll need to purchase Quest packs for areas past the starter zones and Bree-land as a Premium player, but it also says if you were a subscriber with the original & expansions that content will always be open to you as a Premium player.  So which is it? If it's the latter, and I hope it is, then there are really 2 kinds of Premium players, those before and after F2P was implemented.  I'm particularly curious because I haven't bought MoM yet and I may not even enter the area until F2P comes around. So depending on how it works, it may or may not be a good idea to grab the expansion prior to F2P.
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« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2010, 04:51:35 PM »

Quote from: DOSHIGH on June 08, 2010, 04:23:59 PM

Here's what I can't quite figure out: the FAQ's say that you'll need to purchase Quest packs for areas past the starter zones and Bree-land as a Premium player, but it also says if you were a subscriber with the original & expansions that content will always be open to you as a Premium player.  So which is it? If it's the latter, and I hope it is, then there are really 2 kinds of Premium players, those before and after F2P was implemented.  I'm particularly curious because I haven't bought MoM yet and I may not even enter the area until F2P comes around. So depending on how it works, it may or may not be a good idea to grab the expansion prior to F2P.

You could say that those of us who are subscribing now already bought those adventure packs by purchasing the game box. That's the big difference, since new players after F2P is introduced won't have to purchase anything up-front.
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« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2010, 04:56:33 AM »

Yeah, I would make a pretty big stink if any content was removed from the game for monthly subscription players.
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« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2010, 08:07:08 AM »

Quote from: DOSHIGH on June 08, 2010, 04:23:59 PM

Here's what I can't quite figure out: the FAQ's say that you'll need to purchase Quest packs for areas past the starter zones and Bree-land as a Premium player, but it also says if you were a subscriber with the original & expansions that content will always be open to you as a Premium player.  So which is it? If it's the latter, and I hope it is, then there are really 2 kinds of Premium players, those before and after F2P was implemented.  I'm particularly curious because I haven't bought MoM yet and I may not even enter the area until F2P comes around. So depending on how it works, it may or may not be a good idea to grab the expansion prior to F2P.

I think TiLT is correct.  Check the fine print at the bottom of this chart.  Purchasers of the Mines of Moria expansion get access to the Mines of Moria region and content and premium classes and level 60 cap.  Purchasers of Siege of Mirkwood get access to the Siege of Mirkwood region and content and level 65 cap.

It doesn't really say about non-Moria non starter areas, so I suppose they could charge people for those, but it would seem that anyone who had previously purchased the original LotRO box ought to get those for free.

I suppose the question is how much are they planning to charge on the F2P model to unlock Moria vs. how much can you pickup the MoM expansion for now.  Any DDO players who can give us an idea of how much a Moria sized chunk of content would cost to buy in DDO?
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« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2010, 04:12:17 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 04, 2010, 02:18:33 PM

this could be fun, at least I won't have to pay everytime I try to get into the game smile

That's my outlook.  I just don;t have the time anymore to make this genre worthwhile.  However, the DDO free to play model makes it at least stay on my HD for when I get teh itch.  I'd imaigne this will be the same if not played more due to easier soloabililty.
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« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2010, 05:42:19 PM »

Quote from: ydejin on June 09, 2010, 08:07:08 AM

Quote from: DOSHIGH on June 08, 2010, 04:23:59 PM

Here's what I can't quite figure out: the FAQ's say that you'll need to purchase Quest packs for areas past the starter zones and Bree-land as a Premium player, but it also says if you were a subscriber with the original & expansions that content will always be open to you as a Premium player.  So which is it? If it's the latter, and I hope it is, then there are really 2 kinds of Premium players, those before and after F2P was implemented.  I'm particularly curious because I haven't bought MoM yet and I may not even enter the area until F2P comes around. So depending on how it works, it may or may not be a good idea to grab the expansion prior to F2P.

I think TiLT is correct.  Check the fine print at the bottom of this chart.  Purchasers of the Mines of Moria expansion get access to the Mines of Moria region and content and premium classes and level 60 cap.  Purchasers of Siege of Mirkwood get access to the Siege of Mirkwood region and content and level 65 cap.

It doesn't really say about non-Moria non starter areas, so I suppose they could charge people for those, but it would seem that anyone who had previously purchased the original LotRO box ought to get those for free.

I suppose the question is how much are they planning to charge on the F2P model to unlock Moria vs. how much can you pickup the MoM expansion for now.  Any DDO players who can give us an idea of how much a Moria sized chunk of content would cost to buy in DDO?

I may have been wrong. Reading a bit further on the forums, it seems that the premium content from SoA becomes unavailable to you if you stop being a VIP unless you buy it through the LOTRO store. It makes sense, of course. If you stopped subscribing today, you wouldn't have access to any of it anyway, and after F2P you still won't have access to less content than any other player (on the contrary, you'll be a Premium player by default).
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« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2010, 03:17:05 PM »

the beta starts today.  I wonder why they'd need to have a beta since it's the same game, only free.
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« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2010, 03:22:22 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 16, 2010, 03:17:05 PM

the beta starts today.  I wonder why they'd need to have a beta since it's the same game, only free.

The same game with tons of new systems running behind the scenes, no doubt.
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« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2010, 03:23:56 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 16, 2010, 03:17:05 PM

the beta starts today.  I wonder why they'd need to have a beta since it's the same game, only free.

It's because they want to test the LOTRO store. In a beta they can try different types of items for sale and see how the community reacts without having to keep the bad ideas when the full thing launches.
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« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2010, 03:47:22 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on June 16, 2010, 03:23:56 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 16, 2010, 03:17:05 PM

the beta starts today.  I wonder why they'd need to have a beta since it's the same game, only free.

It's because they want to test the LOTRO store. In a beta they can try different types of items for sale and see how the community reacts without having to keep the bad ideas when the full thing launches.

I want an Auroch mount - they should sell those!! smile
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« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2010, 09:04:21 PM »

and September 10th is the official start day for F2P.
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« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2010, 09:17:32 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 03, 2010, 09:04:21 PM

and September 10th is the official start day for F2P.

With Sept. 8 being the head start release.

Ale
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jersoc
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« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2010, 10:32:27 AM »

now that i'm in the right thread. i'll be returning too.

probably starting fresh with some wow guild mates.
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Barrakketh
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« Reply #75 on: September 04, 2010, 05:21:23 PM »

If you want to start really fresh, note there are 4 new North American servers going online:

    * Riddermark
    * Crickhollow
    * Dwarrowdelf
    * Imladris

Everyone on those will be starting from scratch. Personally I'll be staying on Silverlode, but it is tempting to roll a new character to see how things are panning out on a server without 3+ years of baggage. AH prices would be different, for sure.

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YellowKing
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« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2010, 02:53:29 AM »

I'm in as well.
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Fez
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« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2010, 05:46:23 AM »

I'll certainly play this some.  Probably start on one of the new servers.  Any suggestions?  Maybe Crickhollow -- sounds cool.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2010, 03:36:33 AM »

We need to get together and figure out where everybody's playing. I've got a level 40+ out there on the old Wanderers server (can't remember the name), but I'd be willing to roll up a newbie if we had people interested in organizing a fresh start.
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Scraper
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« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2010, 10:03:13 PM »

I have an active kin going on Elendilmir. I will post info later in the week of times when I will be playing etc. A lot of the people in the kin plan on rolling new toons to play with all the new people. It will be a great time to join the game.
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