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Author Topic: I feel gross and dirty.  (Read 2955 times)
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scubabbl
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« on: December 23, 2004, 08:15:12 PM »

Sometimes I'll wander over to the worldofwarcraft.com or wowvault forums to see what people are talking about, and every time, I leave feeling dirty and confused. Do these people not play the same game I do? Everyone screams of "nerfs", "pwning", and other nonsensical terms. I leave feeling like the game I play is totally fucked, yet when I play it, I see none of the things these people conplain about. It makes me feel gross just reading their forums. Ug.
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2004, 08:27:37 PM »

I complete agree with you here. Especially on the General forums.

Once you've broken off to the class forums, most discussions tend to be a bit more civil. But you're still at risk of losing intelligence points just by reading. biggrin
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RedJak
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2004, 09:05:32 PM »

Oh but they are so fun!  My favorite thread was when someone suggested a server or 2 geared toward adults.  He just wanted to be on a server where it was more likely he was playing with people who had jobs and families and such.  Oh, the children went ape.  They twisted it into the idea that all servers would be split between adults and children like a virtual kids table.  So many cliched responses on both sides of the argument.    It was great.
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2004, 10:37:13 PM »

i find this with every mmorpg i have played.  i see some of the same type of rants and complaints at these forums as well.  i've played nearly every major mmorpg for an extended period of time and i've rarely seen the problems everyone complains about.  i just don't get 99% of the complaints people have with the games to be honest with you.
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2004, 10:58:36 PM »

Quote from: "RedJak"
Oh but they are so fun!  My favorite thread was when someone suggested a server or 2 geared toward adults.  He just wanted to be on a server where it was more likely he was playing with people who had jobs and families and such.  Oh, the children went ape.  They twisted it into the idea that all servers would be split between adults and children like a virtual kids table.  So many cliched responses on both sides of the argument.    It was great.


An adult only server or game.  I love the idea.  That way I would know that any immaturity is either intentional or the result of mental instability.

Quote from: "Xmann"
i find this with every mmorpg i have played.  i see some of the same type of rants and complaints at these forums as well.  i've played nearly every major mmorpg for an extended period of time and i've rarely seen the problems everyone complains about.  i just don't get 99% of the complaints people have with the games to be honest with you.


We must exist in different universes but somehow manage to post to the same board.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2004, 12:41:31 AM »

a cc# and Driver license ID server
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Valael
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2004, 05:49:27 AM »

....Mom, can I borrow your wallet?



That wouldn't stop anything.  MMOs already require a CC to play.
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2004, 04:56:48 PM »

Believe it or not, the majority of the immaturity you see in the game comes from adult (and by that I mean 18+) players.

Sorry folks, people don't magically stop being assholes at 21.  (Relative) anonymity can bring out the nasty sides of otherwise restrained people.
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Toe
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2004, 05:27:55 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Believe it or not, the majority of the immaturity you see in the game comes from adult (and by that I mean 18+) players.


How would you know?
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2004, 05:57:44 PM »

Quote from: "Toe"
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Believe it or not, the majority of the immaturity you see in the game comes from adult (and by that I mean 18+) players.


How would you know?


I know you are but what am I?
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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2004, 07:55:42 PM »

News flash: you're on the Internet.  In a community exceeding 250 people, you cannot stop asshattery.
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2004, 09:15:42 PM »

I guess some rat bastard has to make the comment, so why not me.

You do know most of us find mildly juvinile behavior (Read as, half of the wanderers banter in CoH as a fine example) rather entertaining when done properly... It's just the amount of asshattery that can make stuff very irritating.....
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« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2004, 12:26:55 AM »

Quote from: "Toe"
How would you know?

Because I find it very hard to believe the majority of World of Warcraft's players are borrowing mommy or daddy's credit card.

Plus, it's a PC game.  Hell, when was the last commercial for a PC-exclusive game?  Kids are more likely to be begging for Grand Theft Auto or some sports game they know is guarenteed to work on their respective console instead of "World of Warcraft" for their four-year-old Gateway.

In terms of the World of Warcraft forums, I'd like to point out the "vocal minority" phenomenon.  From reading every post on the front page of the forums, you might think WoW is horribly broken--but you've got to remember, less than 10% (probably less than 5%) of their playerbase is actually posting.
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2004, 04:02:48 PM »

They may not be borrowing mommy and daddy's credit card, but they sure as hell are borrowing the 30 bucks to buy a game card.

I tend to agree with -LE- though.  I sip from the battle.net toilet quite frequently, and my vast experience in posting styles say that for the most part, most of the asshats are in the 17-24 range.  High School has a lot of free time available for hardcore grinding but it's nothing compared to college.
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« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2004, 03:07:11 AM »

I've only been playing WoW for 4-5 hours now and I've already seen more immature players than I did playing CoH for months. Too many Blizzard fans out there who bought this upgrading from SC, D2, and W3.
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« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2004, 05:08:19 AM »

Quote from: "Clanwolfer"
News flash: you're on the Internet.  In a community exceeding 250 people, you cannot stop asshattery.


or phrases such as "Asshat". slywink
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Jafisob
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« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2004, 06:32:44 AM »

Quote from: "SuperHiro"
They may not be borrowing mommy and daddy's credit card, but they sure as hell are borrowing the 30 bucks to buy a game card.

I tend to agree with -LE- though.  I sip from the battle.net toilet quite frequently, and my vast experience in posting styles say that for the most part, most of the asshats are in the 17-24 range.  High School has a lot of free time available for hardcore grinding but it's nothing compared to college.


I have to agree that the majority of intentional asshats are in the age range of 17-24 but I think there is still a fair amount of rudeness from the pre-teen and early teen age range.  Some of the rudeness may be cluelessness on how to act in a social situation especially an anonymous one.  I almost think we need a way to instruct people how to act in the removed social situations of the internet.  A Internet Interactions 101 so to speak.  I am guess most parents have no clue on how these games and situations are supposed to go and as such are totally unaware of how rude their kids are being.  If Johnny runs up and grabs something belonging to another kid he is scolded but if he runs up and kill steals no one that knows him personally notices.
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« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2004, 08:12:10 AM »

Quote from: "Jafisob"
If Johnny runs up and grabs something belonging to another kid he is scolded but if he runs up and kill steals no one that knows him personally notices.

But stealing from another kid is an actual crime, whereas "kill stealing" is a part of a game supported by its rules. Do you think that it should be considered any more offensive than "capturing" your Knight in chess? After all, unless your opponent is in your guild or in your team, you are playfully competing with him for sparse resources.
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Jafisob
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« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2004, 08:37:13 AM »

Quote from: "D'Arcy"
Quote from: "Jafisob"
If Johnny runs up and grabs something belonging to another kid he is scolded but if he runs up and kill steals no one that knows him personally notices.

But stealing from another kid is an actual crime, whereas "kill stealing" is a part of a game supported by its rules. Do you think that it should be considered any more offensive than "capturing" your Knight in chess? After all, unless your opponent is in your guild or in your team, you are playfully competing with him for sparse resources.


I don't think capturing my knight in chess is a good analogy of kill stealing.  Most games have rules against kill stealing.  The ones that don't lose customers.

How about grabbing a toy someone else was playing with as opposed to stealing?  Other examples: Cutting in line.  Reaching over and grabbing something from a sisters plate at the dinner table.  Eating more than your fair share of cookies.  etc. etc.  All bad behaviors that will be noticed and dealt with by parents or teachers.
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« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2004, 04:55:07 PM »

Quote from: "Jafisob"
Most games have rules against kill stealing.  The ones that don't lose customers.

You could KS til the cows came home in Everquest, and that game's been around for years now.  I seriously doubt killstealing affects the subscriber base at all, and it certainly doesn't affect it in any noticable way.

Once again, you're assuming the majority of "deviants" in World of Warcraft are kids, (12-16, presumably), who 'just don't know better.'  This is just not the case.  The majority are malicious/greedy/apathetic to your character--you are an obstacle to their progress and must be removed in the most timely and efficient way possible.  Whether this 'hurts your feelings' or not is irrelevant, the obstacle can't do jack to the deviant besides harass him over /tells, which is actually a reportable offense, as opposed to "kill stealing," which isn't even possible in World of Warcraft if you do token damage to the mob before another player does.
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Jafisob
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2004, 09:38:41 PM »

Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Jafisob"
Most games have rules against kill stealing.  The ones that don't lose customers.

You could KS til the cows came home in Everquest, and that game's been around for years now.  I seriously doubt killstealing affects the subscriber base at all, and it certainly doesn't affect it in any noticable way.
...


EQ has rules that are enforced against kill stealing and has since the first six months or so of play irrc.  The 'play nice policy'.  The initial rampant kill stealing in EQ was annoying some players and driving them away.  Sony finally realized that their bottom line was being affected and reacted.

My statements about younger players was not that they were the highest volume of 'deviant' players(I think deviant may be too strong a word).   I see a lot of immature players who don't heal, protect other group members, and who race to loot in pickup groups.  I see this much more in WoW than I have ever seen in any other mmorpg.  Obviously this is not a purely analytical observation but after spending a few thousand hours in half a dozen mmorpgs over the course of 5+ years I think my observations have merit.  I would love to see a real analysis done if that is even possible.

Kill stealing does not hurt my feelings.  After playing mmorpg's for years I can handle the occassional asshat.  I don't bother to report people or cry over such things I just avoid the person(s) and situation wherever possible.

My one point from my previous post that may have been missed:  Anti social behavior for kids in most social situations is noticed and corrected by parents and other adult authority figures but in online games Johnny can be a jerk without consequences or notice.  Many times Johnny is not a jerk intentionally but is merely clueless about how to act.
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RLMullen
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2004, 10:00:04 PM »

Quote
Anti social behavior for kids in most social situations is noticed and corrected by parents and other adult authority figures but in online games Johnny can be a jerk without consequences or notice. Many times Johnny is not a jerk intentionally but is merely clueless about how to act.


I'd say that, just from my own real world observation, that Johnny acts like a jerk because ALL KIDS act like jerks towards other kids!  Johnny assumes that because it's a "video" game, then everyone here is a kid; therefore "kid rules" apply, and acting like a jerk is just a normal part of a kid's social structure.

I seriously wonder how many of the kids playing WoW know that most of the people that they are playing with are actually adults.  If they knew this, then the behavior would change.  I was in a tight knit "casual adult" guild in Earth and Beyond... somehow along the way we recruited a few 13 yr olds.  It was obvious that these guys were kids after a single day of membership.  Once we told them that everyone else in the guild was an adult, and many had kids their age and older, their behavior changed dramatically. Heck... after that they tended to act like adults more than the rest of us. :-)
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