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Author Topic: Guild Wars 2 (official review on pp 21)  (Read 42525 times)
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Blackjack
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« Reply #200 on: March 09, 2011, 10:37:01 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 09, 2011, 05:20:35 PM

It sounds (I mean this as a compliment) very similar to LOTRO's system. Though the node detail sounds very refreshing...

Quote
Characters can gather all types of crafting materials, and gathering nodes in Guild Wars 2 are not exclusive, or used up after a player gathers materials from it. If youíve played other MMOs, you may have felt frustrated when trying to gather crafting materials; youíre running around zones trying to find nodes, only to have someone beat you to the node, or take the resources while youíre fighting an enemy that attacked you before you could gather them.  In Guild Wars 2, each node can be gathered by every player, so when you see a rare node off in the distance, you donít need to abandon what youíre doing to try and beat other players to it.

We decided to make gathering available for all characters for a couple major reasons.  First, we wanted gathering nodes to be sought after by every player, so that when players are grouped together they donít need to feel guilty by making the group wait for them while they run off after an ore vein on the side of the road.  Secondly, gathering professions are often used for economic gain, through selling materials to other players, and we didnít want crafters to have to sacrifice their economic potential in order to be able to craft gear for themselves and friends.
Whether this will produce more gold farmers and gold spammers or fewer, is up to... well, maybe there's an idea for a poll there.  icon_smile

Also refreshing:
Quote
Our intent is that you should never have to make something you consider worthless while leveling a crafting discipline.
Hallelujah!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 10:39:24 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #201 on: March 11, 2011, 04:19:05 PM »

more on the thief.
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« Reply #202 on: March 12, 2011, 09:28:46 PM »

Just sat thru the PAX panel. Didn't know really anything about the game besides Rittchard's raves smile so decided to check it out. I'm officially drinking the Kool aid - this game sounds (and looks) amazing. A lot of IMHO great features. Unfortunately not going to have time to go see the floor demo but I'm sure that footage is already online or will be soon.
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« Reply #203 on: March 12, 2011, 10:05:40 PM »

you need to kidnap one of the dev's so rittchard can make them release it already.
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« Reply #204 on: March 12, 2011, 11:01:34 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 12, 2011, 10:05:40 PM

you need to kidnap one of the dev's so rittchard can make them release it already.

Yes please!  I will do whatever it takes to make this release happen this year.  I have watched all seasons of 24, all Lost episodes featuring Sayid, and both Hostel films in order to prepare myself on torture techniques.  With birds falling out of the sky, millions of dead fish popping up, earthquakes, tsunamis, and George Martin releasing Book 5, clearly the End of Days is approaching quickly.  I would really like to play GW2 and/or D3 before that happens.
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« Reply #205 on: March 24, 2011, 12:48:03 AM »

Oh my god, am I about to scoop CeeKay?!

Eurogamer has a lengthy interview / hands-on impressions article about GW2. All the same PR awesome sauce is on display:

- GW2 has "junked the holy trinity".
- Public events, rather than individual quests, will not be rare or occasional but will be the backbone of the "mass" of GW2's content.
- "The levelling curve is now almost a flat line".
- "The endgame should not be different from the game you played to get to it"

And Eurogamer's conclusion: "Since it's not fighting for your $15 a month, Guild Wars 2 can happily co-exist with World of Warcraft. The question, really, is whether World of Warcraft, in all its undeniable but ageing glory, can co-exist with Guild Wars 2."

- Ash
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« Reply #206 on: March 24, 2011, 01:31:50 AM »

Quote from: Asharak on March 24, 2011, 12:48:03 AM


- GW2 has "junked the holy trinity".

The question is whether people want to play a game without the holy trinity.  People seem really resistant to change and so it will be interesting to see how they might react to this.
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« Reply #207 on: March 24, 2011, 03:00:47 AM »

Quote from: The Grue on March 24, 2011, 01:31:50 AM

Quote from: Asharak on March 24, 2011, 12:48:03 AM


- GW2 has "junked the holy trinity".

The question is whether people want to play a game without the holy trinity.  People seem really resistant to change and so it will be interesting to see how they might react to this.

People are also dumb, if they can capitalize on this they can also junk the holy trinity and those of us who aren't dumb will be better for it.
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« Reply #208 on: March 24, 2011, 06:29:42 PM »

Quote from: Asharak on March 24, 2011, 12:48:03 AM

- GW2 has "junked the holy trinity".
- Public events, rather than individual quests, will not be rare or occasional but will be the backbone of the "mass" of GW2's content.
- "The levelling curve is now almost a flat line".
- "The endgame should not be different from the game you played to get to it"

I know I'm like a broken record, but seriously every single one of these are/were things I've specifically bitched about ad infinitum over the past years in one form or another.  Most recently I've been concerned about GW2 also relying on solo questing for the main levelling structure, but it sounds like even that is being addressed.  It really feels like this is (almost) the exact game I personally would have designed if I had had a chance. 
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« Reply #209 on: March 24, 2011, 06:39:54 PM »

part of the reason the whole tank/heal/dps thing came about in the first place is because it's a mechanic that just simply makes sense.  It's easier if you only have to deal with one person getting hit because that's who you focus on keeping alive and the rest can focus on doing more damage.  

Other games have claimed to have done away with it before, hopefully they figured out some magical way.  CO supposedly didn't have the mechanic, but people ended up playing that way anyway.

I may be alone here with this view, but I wish mmo's would go back to the kills giving more xp than the quests.  Quests should be a way to direct you to do thing and go places and get rewards in the form of loot, but when quests provide a huge % of the xp and mobs very little, you'll find it harder to get people together to run quests they have already done.  It also makes it easier for players to find gaps in the quest content and be stranded between level tiers.  I don't like the far extreme where quests give next to nothing and it's all grinding though (Aion for example).  FWIW Rift seemed to do this pretty well.  Quest worth about 5k xp, each kill about 200xp with average quest requiring somewhere around 25-40 mobs to kill to complete.  It meant you got roughly the same or more xp from the kills as the completion.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 06:43:17 PM by Harkonis » Logged
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« Reply #210 on: March 24, 2011, 06:55:16 PM »

The way the guy described it in the PAX session was kind of like this:

You are traveling along and some guy runs up to you and says, "hey! These satyrs are attacking that town!" So you go and try to save the town. If you succeed, everything's great, if you fail, the town is taken over and then it branches off. For example, the satyrs go out into the forest and start collecting trees for siege weapons so you have to stop that before you can attack and take the town back.

So that one is a bit like Rift invasions, but more complex. And supposedly there's multiple successive branches if you fail, and there's like 1000 of these situations. Originally there were no quest markers at all and they just wanted people to explore. However they found that to be a little too hard for people so they added some breadcrumb NPCs to point you toward the events. They didn't really go into what classes you will need to win, but they did say they will scale based on who is in the area at the time so a small group will not be prevented from winning the event.

Now the other bit they talked about, and depending on how it works Hark might completely hate, is the sidekicking system. They said that if a high level guy goes into a low level area, he will be knocked down so he can't gank people. I have no idea how that actually works though. They also said that low level people can go into high level areas and get pulled up to their friend's level. That seems like it would pose a problem to XP gains, so they were probably oversimplifying how it works.
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« Reply #211 on: March 24, 2011, 07:01:13 PM »

Oh, and Hark, you should definitely watch this video if you haven't yet:
http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/guild-wars-2-trailer-shows-thief-skills

I'll definitely have to roll one of those Monchichi looking guys icon_lol
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« Reply #212 on: March 24, 2011, 08:18:08 PM »

that race is the thing I hate most about guild wars.  They are pretty amazingly obnoxious, and I don't find them even redeemable in the cuteness factor.  (I played Taru-Taru in FFXI, so I'm not adverse to playing the cutesy race)

I would like to play as the rat guys, loved my Ratonga in EQ2. smile  Seems to be a lot of focus on ranged for the rogueish types, frown  I did like the arrow that teleported him though.

The flying jump kick thingie looked kinda stupid frown

The last bit was kind of cool, though the spinny move also looked kind of stupid.  They seem to like moves that make people spin and fly all over the place.  It seemed a bit too good that he was attacking from stealth and not losing stealth as well.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 08:22:54 PM by Harkonis » Logged
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« Reply #213 on: March 24, 2011, 08:47:37 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on March 24, 2011, 06:39:54 PM

part of the reason the whole tank/heal/dps thing came about in the first place is because it's a mechanic that just simply makes sense.  It's easier if you only have to deal with one person getting hit because that's who you focus on keeping alive and the rest can focus on doing more damage.  

Other games have claimed to have done away with it before, hopefully they figured out some magical way.  CO supposedly didn't have the mechanic, but people ended up playing that way anyway.

I may be alone here with this view, but I wish mmo's would go back to the kills giving more xp than the quests.  Quests should be a way to direct you to do thing and go places and get rewards in the form of loot, but when quests provide a huge % of the xp and mobs very little, you'll find it harder to get people together to run quests they have already done.  It also makes it easier for players to find gaps in the quest content and be stranded between level tiers.  I don't like the far extreme where quests give next to nothing and it's all grinding though (Aion for example).  FWIW Rift seemed to do this pretty well.  Quest worth about 5k xp, each kill about 200xp with average quest requiring somewhere around 25-40 mobs to kill to complete.  It meant you got roughly the same or more xp from the kills as the completion.

I don't think they are getting rid of the holy trinity mechanic, but they are getting rid of the specific 3 class lockdown to perform the same mechanic.  What I'm reading is that it's like the next thing beyond Rift's system to alter your core class enough so that, for example, a Rogue can heal (bard) - but they are allowing this change to actually happen on the fly in the middle of a fight.  The example I saw was say you had a guy designated as a "main healer" (even though his base class may be Guardian) - his dying doesn't mean "game over."  The Elementalist that was originally designated as the "main DPS" can on the fly shift to main healing while someone else (say the Ranger) moves to resurrect the Guardian, and then everyone can again shift back to their original roles.  What this means is that when you are putting together a group, you aren't forced to have 1 of X class, Y class and Z class.  Any band of friends can get together and adjust their designated roles and still be successful.  Essentially the goal is to rid players of the exclusion or inability to do a dungeon or whatever we face time and again in every game.  As flexible as Rift is, when you want to do a guild group dungeon, you typically still require some specific classes and levels - instead of just grabbing specific PLAYERS.  This removes class restrictions, and sidekicking (hopefully forward and reverse) will remove level restrictions.

As for the last point you made, I made almost the exact comment the other day in Rift.  I'm sick of the mechanics that endorse and encourage solo questing, I'm actually longing for at least the option of old school group grinding.  The way most MMOs are structured, there are so many quests and they all go so quickly that it's very rare for you to come into a game and find a friend to group with to do the exact same content.  More often than not, people will tend to stick to solo questing or questing with a stranger because the system is just more beneficial that way.  It looks like GW2 is addressing this as well with more focus on the dynamic content.

My whole thing with MMORPGs is *anything* you can do to encourage and help people (friends/guildmates specificially) to group together is good, and anything deterring it is bad.  I want to play these games with my friends at all times, but I know flexibility is required because we all play at different paces and at different times.  I want to be able to logon, say "hey Joe, Bob and Rick, let's group up and go hit a dungeon", even if Joe is a lv. 50 ranger, Bob is a lv 5 elementalist and Rick is a lv. 13 Thief.  I recall so many MMOs where I would see someone maybe day 1, and then not again for the duration of the game.  That should never happen in a game that is supposedly predicated on getting people together.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 08:50:14 PM by rittchard » Logged
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« Reply #214 on: March 27, 2011, 08:41:07 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on March 24, 2011, 08:18:08 PM

that race is the thing I hate most about guild wars.  They are pretty amazingly obnoxious, and I don't find them even redeemable in the cuteness factor.  (I played Taru-Taru in FFXI, so I'm not adverse to playing the cutesy race)

Ditto.  They look completely out of place.

Arena is trying a bit to hard to appeal globally.
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« Reply #215 on: March 28, 2011, 10:03:06 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on March 24, 2011, 08:47:37 PM


My whole thing with MMORPGs is *anything* you can do to encourage and help people (friends/guildmates specificially) to group together is good, and anything deterring it is bad.  I want to play these games with my friends at all times, but I know flexibility is required because we all play at different paces and at different times.  I want to be able to logon, say "hey Joe, Bob and Rick, let's group up and go hit a dungeon", even if Joe is a lv. 50 ranger, Bob is a lv 5 elementalist and Rick is a lv. 13 Thief.  I recall so many MMOs where I would see someone maybe day 1, and then not again for the duration of the game.  That should never happen in a game that is supposedly predicated on getting people together.

Yes, totally agree here, and I find it very strange that no MMO has yet succeeded at this.
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« Reply #216 on: April 01, 2011, 03:31:38 PM »

are you ready to go commando?
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« Reply #217 on: April 01, 2011, 03:57:28 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 01, 2011, 03:31:38 PM

are you ready to go commando?

This is absolutely awesome! I can't wait for GW2 to come out now!
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« Reply #218 on: April 01, 2011, 04:09:55 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 01, 2011, 03:31:38 PM

are you ready to go commando?

Hehehehe! I like how they actually bothered to make the skill videos for the Commando.  thumbsup
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« Reply #219 on: April 01, 2011, 04:11:13 PM »

Quote from: PR_GMR on April 01, 2011, 04:09:55 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 01, 2011, 03:31:38 PM

are you ready to go commando?

Hehehehe! I like how they actually bothered to make the skill videos for the Commando.  thumbsup

I hear they had to push the game back to 2012 because of the time spent on it  icon_twisted
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« Reply #220 on: April 01, 2011, 06:41:58 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 01, 2011, 04:11:13 PM

Quote from: PR_GMR on April 01, 2011, 04:09:55 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 01, 2011, 03:31:38 PM

are you ready to go commando?

Hehehehe! I like how they actually bothered to make the skill videos for the Commando.  thumbsup

I hear they had to push the game back to 2012 because of the time spent on it  icon_twisted

You know I was amused for one minute, and then after seeing how elaborate one of the skill videos was I just became pissed off.  I mean come on, really, the time couldn't have been better spent on getting the game out faster?  Even if some bozo did this on his own time, it's still a ton of quality time/energy that could have been used for something productive, like GETTING THE FRICKING GAME OUT. 

Color me annoyed  mad
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« Reply #221 on: April 01, 2011, 10:11:06 PM »

They are probably just reusing assets from their new IP: Modern Wars.
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« Reply #222 on: April 04, 2011, 11:12:21 PM »

The story behind the April Fool's class:

http://www.arena.net/blog/goin-commando-with-horia-dociu

This quote seems to contradict itself, it's funny how he goes back and forth between covering their asses (against bitter backlash from people like me) and explaining how much went into getting it done.

Quote
Basically, a ton of work went into this; it was ďa biiiig chicken,Ē but I had to make sure we didnít interfere with any Guild Wars 2 deadlines. The key was starting early, so that people could work on this fun stuff whenever they had free time. I also made sure not to involve any designers in hooking up actual game play, since that would have put a major dent in their schedules.


It was a "ton of work" but had no impact whatsoever on schedules?  The question I have is what that "ton of work" could have been put to use to in the real game.  At bare minimum one might argue these guys using their own time for this joke could have spent it sleeping and relaxing so they'd be more efficient at their real job. 

Quote
We canít wait for you guys to have the game in your hands; we want this game released even more than you do! We may build the world, but you bring it to life. Until we see you all in the game, the game is not finished. Weíre hurrying!

I guess by hurrying he means spending time on frivolous jokes.   OK so I know I sound like a bitter old jaded queen.  Just throw me a frickin bone, Arena!!!  At least say the game is coming out in 2011, damn.
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« Reply #223 on: April 04, 2011, 11:39:49 PM »

Yeah, I do wish they'd announce some kind of release date, even if it's just down to the quarter.  I'm glad I have Rift scratching the MMO itch right now.
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« Reply #224 on: April 05, 2011, 12:22:51 AM »

Rough translation: These guys were having fun doing the work on their breaks, or lunchtime, when they didn't have anything else to do related to the project at that moment (while waiting for approval for whatever they were doing), etc etc.

In short - sheesh, calm down. Let a developer have some fun, okay?
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« Reply #225 on: April 05, 2011, 01:20:08 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on April 04, 2011, 11:12:21 PM

OK so I know I sound like a bitter old jaded queen.  Just throw me a frickin bone, Arena!!!

I am so not touching that one.
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« Reply #226 on: April 05, 2011, 03:39:35 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on April 05, 2011, 12:22:51 AM

Rough translation: These guys were having fun doing the work on their breaks, or lunchtime, when they didn't have anything else to do related to the project at that moment (while waiting for approval for whatever they were doing), etc etc.

In short - sheesh, calm down. Let a developer have some fun, okay?

NO!  They must slave away 24/7 to produce the most incrediballz game evar in the least amount of time possible.  When they sleep, they had better be dreaming of ways to improve the game!  Anything else would be an inefficient use of time.   icon_wink
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« Reply #227 on: April 18, 2011, 10:50:23 PM »

creating the Charr starting area.
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« Reply #228 on: April 19, 2011, 09:54:50 PM »

Writing the Charr.
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« Reply #229 on: April 21, 2011, 11:36:04 PM »

Charr video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzqh4nqbsUU

plus a look at the artistic origin of the Charr.
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« Reply #230 on: April 27, 2011, 02:35:32 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 21, 2011, 11:36:04 PM


Quote
Finally, there was the matter of the chest. It really didnít make any sense to have boobs on a charr female, particularly with all the effort we took to make her sleek and fierce. We thought they should have no breasts at all or at least hide them under some fluffy fur. Above all else, we needed to be true to the race, of course! There was still some debate, however, so I gave them a choice: either be subtle and downplay the breasts (it wasnít a point of the race, anyway) or go full-on realistic. Yes, thatís right ónone or six!!

But really, the armor augmentation required for six boobs would be just as ridiculous, so none it was!

Man.... could you imagine? Six titties?  nod

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« Reply #231 on: May 03, 2011, 01:34:58 PM »

A nice video showing a fan's top 10 reasons to be interested in this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBC_ig73aMs
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« Reply #232 on: May 08, 2011, 04:59:05 AM »

with Rifts end game being a total failure, we can only hope GW2 comes out sooner rather than later.

World pvp sounds alot like DAOC, which is a great thing.
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« Reply #233 on: May 09, 2011, 10:00:03 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on May 08, 2011, 04:59:05 AM

World pvp sounds alot like DAOC, which is a great thing.

I'm not quite sure which features are like DAOC, but I do agree it sounds great:

Quote
World versus World is an objectives based Player versus Player game mode based in a large scale open world which allows hundreds of players at all levels to drop-in and drop-out at any time. Every week three different worlds are matched up on a random map to compete for rewards for their world.

World PvP is intended as a casual form of PvP, designed to be a more relaxed bridging point between PvE and the tactics and pressure of structured PvP. It is hoped that players of any level or PvP experience can participate and be useful.


http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

From what I can tell, there are no DAOC-like factions; the "worlds" mentioned are different servers so it's akin to a cross-server PvP system.  Maybe DAOC had something like that late?  The odd thing is it sounds like you can change worlds/servers fairly easily (so no population imbalance issues, thank goodness), so I don't know how you get "attached" to a given one. 

Most important thing for me is the casual player focus - drop in, drop out style gameplay, with sidekicking as well.  Not that I don't want to get steamrolled in 8-man competitive some more smile
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tcweidner
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« Reply #234 on: May 11, 2011, 12:00:52 AM »

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I'm not quite sure which features are like DAOC
 Huh? its exactly like DAOC. World PVP in GW2 has 3 factions ( 3 servers fighting each other). Your server is YOUR FACTION.  You fight in the mists.  Each server has a portal from their world into the mist ( pvp world)  first area is your servers pvp home land, which leads to mid ground where you have a keep as do all the other servers( factions) you fight over keeps, and their supply lines.  If you take down a faction/servers keep, you can invade their homeland pvp area, where you can do more damage.  Server/faction gain buufs and rewards for beating up other factions and taken their keeps.  Sound familiar.  Its basically just like DAOC, but just fixed up and tweaked.  You fight for your server, you have to take and protect keeps, your entire server will be effected by pvp outcomes. All this came out in an interview just this week.


Quote
The odd thing is it sounds like you can change worlds/servers fairly easily
I dont see where you see this at all, You are very attached to your server, that is where you character and story is. Your home instance, your home you build via pve experience exist.  Your server is your faction. I dont see why or how transferring to another server would be easy or very common.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 12:15:24 AM by tcweidner » Logged

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rittchard
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« Reply #235 on: May 11, 2011, 07:12:29 PM »

Quote from: tcweidner on May 11, 2011, 12:00:52 AM

I dont see where you see this at all, You are very attached to your server, that is where you character and story is. Your home instance, your home you build via pve experience exist.  Your server is your faction. I dont see why or how transferring to another server would be easy or very common.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World

Quote
A server or "world" is the host on which Guild Wars 2 players play. Although a player must choose a server upon account creation, server switching will be simple. Some restrictions will be imposed on characters which have recently switched servers. An example of this restriction was to prevent interference in the outcome of a World versus World battle.

Did you play GW1?  There were no "servers" per se, everything was instanced (which some people loved and others hated).  If Kub was on Instance 101 of a particular city, I could just jump over to it as long as I had already unlocked that spot on the map.  GW2 seems to be using a different system, but they also clearly aren't forcing you to be locked down to a server, presumably so that you can always join up with your friends easily.  And so you don't have to worry about overcrowded servers or queues, or the inverse. 
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Fez
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« Reply #236 on: May 11, 2011, 08:27:02 PM »

Quote from: The Rocketman on March 28, 2011, 10:03:06 AM

Quote from: rittchard on March 24, 2011, 08:47:37 PM


My whole thing with MMORPGs is *anything* you can do to encourage and help people (friends/guildmates specificially) to group together is good, and anything deterring it is bad.  I want to play these games with my friends at all times, but I know flexibility is required because we all play at different paces and at different times.  I want to be able to logon, say "hey Joe, Bob and Rick, let's group up and go hit a dungeon", even if Joe is a lv. 50 ranger, Bob is a lv 5 elementalist and Rick is a lv. 13 Thief.  I recall so many MMOs where I would see someone maybe day 1, and then not again for the duration of the game.  That should never happen in a game that is supposedly predicated on getting people together.

Yes, totally agree here, and I find it very strange that no MMO has yet succeeded at this.

There is one.  EQ2 has a fantastic mentoring system that allows any higher level character to mentor down to the level of a character in the party.  They even have a chronologist (forget the exact name) that allows you to set your level lower and experience the old content and undertake NEW quests.  CoH had sidekicking, although I don't remember much about it.
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ericb
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« Reply #237 on: May 11, 2011, 09:06:31 PM »

Yep, EQ2 even gives bonus exp for mentoring almost as a benefit to helping out lower levels.  EQ2 is probably the only one that has a working and successful mentoring system though.
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rittchard
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« Reply #238 on: May 11, 2011, 09:24:05 PM »

Quote from: ericb on May 11, 2011, 09:06:31 PM

Yep, EQ2 even gives bonus exp for mentoring almost as a benefit to helping out lower levels.  EQ2 is probably the only one that has a working and successful mentoring system though.

Yeah EQ2 definitely did a great job with this.  I also love(d) the alternate advancement system, which allowed powergamers to keep getting their levelling fix while maintaining a lower overall level so that they could group more with their casual playing friends.
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CeeKay
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« Reply #239 on: May 12, 2011, 02:46:26 PM »

city of Lion's Arch.
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