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Author Topic: Good/bad of WoW being on PvP vs PvE servers?  (Read 4429 times)
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jpinard
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« on: December 08, 2004, 06:12:25 AM »

I'm surprised at how many people here are no non PvP servers, and am now wondering if maybe I should not be focusing on a PvP server?

Can some of you post positives/negatives of the server choice?  Will the non PvP servers have Guild/Race Wars later on?
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2004, 06:23:23 AM »

I like PvP, but I don't want it forced on me.   With that said the constant fighting in contested areas on PvP like Stranglethorn and Ashenvale isnot for everyone.  I think thats the main concern.getting ganked while trying to complete a quest is a complete turn off to me.


All the servers will be getting a Battleground where there is nothing but PvP.  Folks that want to PvP can, but if you don't you can safely XP without any hassles of being ganked.  


I know I am rambling.  its late
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2004, 06:38:01 AM »

Yeah, I tried a PvP server for a while in the beta and it was annoying to be in an area trying to complete a quest and just get friggin ganked by some Horde guy.  

Then there was the time when I was a druid and was sent to the Druid Lands where both Night Elves and Taurens have to go to learn some stuff, but a higher level Night Elf just kept following me around and killing me over and over again.  The worst part was that I couldn't even tell him to stop it or swear at him because of the silly language barrier Blizzard has on the races.  So I basically had to just run around and do as much as I could until he finally got bored of killing my dumb ass and left me alone.  But that was the most annoying and poorly designed thing I've seen and totally turned me off of PvP.  

Plus, if I'm on a non PvP server I can have both Horde and Alliance characters on there and play them whenever I feel like.
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jpinard
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2004, 06:43:46 AM »

But on the other hand, does the constant PvP aspect add some excitement to the game for you?  Wouldn't it be fun to take small raiding party into an opposing town and start a big war?  That seems kind of cool to me - but maybe that's cause I'm a low level retard right now (as in I'm still pretty clueless)?
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leo8877
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2004, 07:19:51 AM »

Quote from: "jpinard"
But on the other hand, does the constant PvP aspect add some excitement to the game for you?  Wouldn't it be fun to take small raiding party into an opposing town and start a big war?  That seems kind of cool to me - but maybe that's cause I'm a low level retard right now (as in I'm still pretty clueless)?


These raids happen on the PvE servers all the time.  People are always up to turning on their flag and PvP-ing it.
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Toe
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2004, 12:40:50 PM »

Quote from: "leo8877"
Quote from: "jpinard"
But on the other hand, does the constant PvP aspect add some excitement to the game for you?  Wouldn't it be fun to take small raiding party into an opposing town and start a big war?  That seems kind of cool to me - but maybe that's cause I'm a low level retard right now (as in I'm still pretty clueless)?


These raids happen on the PvE servers all the time.  People are always up to turning on their flag and PvP-ing it.


Yup, it was a nightly thing on the beta (non-PvP) server.

Some horde members would attack a small alliance town, like Southshore. When they attack alliance faction NPC guards it turns on their PvP flag. When they kill guards is sends a message over the World Defense channel that "Southshore is under attack!". So all the Alliance people that want some PvP action hop on a griffon, fly to Southshore, and engage the enemy (thus turning on their PvP flag as well).

I really think Blizzard was not very smart in designating their servers as "regular" and PvP. They should have used some other naming convention. Lots of people when to the PvP servers because they thought there would be absolutely no PvPing on regular servers, which is far from the case.
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Loomi
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2004, 01:27:01 PM »

I agree with the PvE server sentiments above.  There is plenty of PvP action on the PvE servers if you want to get involved.  People, in general, are going to defend their town so if you go rough up an NPC, you're going to get some return action pretty quick.  

On the other hand, if you're out questing or xping, you can do so without worrying about being ganked.  The biggest problem is that you might have to wait for an NPC to respawn if the town where you're playing is being sieged.
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2004, 02:40:49 PM »

Agreed with all of the above.  I don't want some hyperactive 13 year-old messing with my game.  I'll kick his ass when I'm good and ready and not a minute before.
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Booner
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2004, 03:11:20 PM »

I enjoy the added excitement. I don't go looking for a fight, and have only been in 3, but the idea of someone around that corner out to do me harm keeps me frosty. smile
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2004, 03:26:01 PM »

I think Blizzard handled it just right.  I loved the concept of PvP when I started playing Shadowbane a while back...notice i said STARTED.  After you get off the PvE island the game essentially became "stand at door of neutral city, buff up, run like hell toward next city, get killed by rogue character, lose all the stuff in your backpack."

that killed the game for me.

having the option to enter PvP whenever I'd like is great.

p.s. thanks for the heads up on the yell messages stating "so and so city is under attack".  i wondered what that was all about!  biggrin
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2004, 07:05:44 PM »

IMO, PvP servers really should be only be picked if you like one of the following:

1. You have a guild to support you

2. You like a little excitement, everytime you get attacked on the road or during a quest, remember you will get to kill someone later.

3. You like the different playstyle that a PvP server allows. Killing monsters is far different than a human player, or doing those duels.


Also don't expect to be able to solo very much, usually the PvP'ers are running around like 1 or 2 people with no direction. If you have superior numbers they will die(unlees the other person is like 10+ levels above your group). I have only made level 25, so I don't know if there are quiet corners of the world in contested areas, where soloing is more reasonable to do.
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2004, 12:54:00 AM »

Actually, I was under the initial impression that there was no PvP on a PvE server.  Thanks everybody for clarifying that!  And when or if (who am I kidding?  When!) I get the game, I'll be sure to join a PvE server.  I keep telling myself that I don't have the money, but this game seems so fun.....
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2004, 04:39:41 PM »

I didn't want to join a PvP server for the same reasons mentioned above. Corpse runs aren't too bad, but I don't like having to be sure i avoid MOBS 3 levels above me, and the other players 20 levels above me.

I play an Undead Mage on Whisperwind, and was in Brill the other night when a group of level 22+ Alliance players came in and attacked the city. That was a blast. As a Level 11 at the time, I didn't do much except give them a target, the same as the rest of the people there. Eventually a few higher level players came to help, but it got ugly there for a while.

I enjoyed that aspect of PvP, but I don't want it forced upon me. Especially in this game. I hate making sweeping generalizations, but Blizzard seems to attract the "adolescents with anger issues" crowd. I don't want to be griefed, and I can see that happening alot on the PvP servers. The guys that raided Brill were cool about it. At one time they actually backed off and let people regroup before they came back and attacked again. I know they let us regroup, becuase they hadn't taken much damage judging by the HAM bars I could see. We were just practice dummies, and just like practice dummies, we got clobbered. :lol:
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2004, 05:16:42 PM »

I was in Brill for this raid as well.  It was my first foray into PvP.  I was only level  10 or 11 at the time and I was coming back to Brill to cash in some quests.  Because of this, the raiders didn't see me coming from the side.. I stood there for a bit and then thought, "What the hell?"  I start throwing some fireballs and get a few shots in before he turns and sees me.  Death quickly ensues.  It was fun, but I'm glad it was my voluntary choice to participate.
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leo8877
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2004, 09:51:22 PM »

I was at Stonetalon peak last night at the Night Elf's landing.  Mind you I am a lvl 28 Undead Rogue.  I didn't even know there was a NE camp there, it's practically Horde territory around there.  Any way, I was sneaking around, taking a look and there is this lvl 20 NE Hunter with a lvl 20 pet bear.  (BTW, this is a PvE server, so I couldn't just gank him.)  Any way, I turn off stealth and must just materialize in front of him....and he starts to attack me!  8 Levels is a lot to give.  Brave, but foolish he was.  I made short work of the Night Elf and went on my way.  Maybe he didn't know that he did not have to attack me.

EDIT: to add that my PvP flag was on because I killed a guard sneaking into the camp.  He didn't look any different from the creeps that were there, so I was shocked when I engaged him and it turned my flag on.
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2004, 07:58:35 PM »

PvP fights happen all the time on Whisperwind, which is a “normal” server.  It’s mostly all permissive PvP.  I say mostly because you can get someone to flag themselves for PvP if they aren’t paying attention to what they’re doing.  There’s no shortage of NEs in Ashenvale that are eager to PvP, and they make that clear when they stand near you hoping you’ll trigger an AoE attack or debuff that will hit them and flag you.  Plus, on any given night there’s always fighting going down near Zoram Strand or Splintertree.  If you’re a friendly druid, shaman or priest that happens to be running by and you decide to throw a heal on someone who’s flagged pvp, you’re now in the mix!  Normally all it takes is a few rude gestures or taunts, and then people flag themselves and it’s game on.  I’m thankful I’m on a “normal” server, since I’ve already run into a handful of idiots that are 10+ lvls higher than me trying to get me to “pull the trigger” against them.  I can’t imagine how frustrated I’d be to get ganked by those clowns on a pvp server.  

You’d be surprised, people are more than willing and even very eager to pvp on the normal servers, they just don’t want to deal with some of the bs that happens on pure pvp servers.
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2004, 08:06:16 PM »

I had fun yesterday hanging around the Crossroads with my 29 Night Elf Hunter sniping the NPCs buried inside the town, just trying to see if I could get a PC to come out and play.

After about 45 minutes, seeing nothing but the occasional low level (highest was a lone 25 Warrior), I gave up and wandered back to questing.

And left a pile of dead NPC bodies in my wake. biggrin
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leo8877
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2004, 08:09:24 PM »

More PvP on a PvE.  I was just getting to Thousand Needles last night and I see the two NPC guards lying dead on the ground.  Odd, I thought.  I even needed to talk to one to complete a quest.

So, what do I spy running towards the Great Lift?  Well it's a Dwarf of some kind and he's totally oblivious to me.  Best of all, his PvP flag is on because he just killed those NPC guards.  I'm lvl 29 at this point, he's lvl 28.  So I run up behind him and stealth as I get on the lift.  He still doesn't see me.  Looks like he's enjoying the scenery.

So I whack him with a cheap shot skill and it stuns him for 5s and gives me two points.  To make a long story short, I basically work the Dwarf.  He wasn't prepared and my Rogue can dish out the damage.  He only got me for about 100 health of my 1000+ pool.  It was a fun moment.

Lesson of the day: Don't activate your PvP flag if you aren't paying attention.   :lol:
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2004, 12:05:29 AM »

I finally died the other day to 2 Rogues and a Shaman... I actually Had the two rogues both in red, out of invunerability, bandages and pots (while I still had all my pots, most of my mana, lay hands and a invunerability left) then caught some lag as the shaman appeared and dropped before my instant spell (lay hands) went off to make thier lives all but over... I lay claim I coulda taken the shaman too if not for the lag, lol)

I myself enjoy killing undead, they go squish very nicely...

Although this whole not ebing able to talk to any horde, and them us sucks the big wet one... I like to be able to call them wanderers sissies before cleaving them in half smile
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flyinj
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« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2004, 11:17:50 PM »

Here's my personal PvE vs PvP experience-

I started the game as a Troll Hunter on a PvE server. I got up to level 32. I participated in a few raids, and defended a few raids... they were great fun. Then I got to the point where I was always in contested areas with alliance everywhere. The alliance would run past me, I couldn't do anything, and they'd attack Sun Rock retreat. So many times I wished I could stop them before they got there, but instead had to follow them and wait for them to attack.

Then it started getting to the point where, after participating in PvP fights of various sizes, I realized how much fun it was to PvP... humans are MUCH more fun and interesting to fight than mobs.

So, I started a new Troll Rogue on a PvP server. Finally got him up to level 23 and have been in contested zones for the past 3 levels. Here are my experiences so far:

The Ashenvale Run-

I'm walking down the path towards our outpost on the western beaches of Ashenvale. Suddenly, I spot two enemies coming the opposite way down the road. I quickly jump into some foliage next to the road, hoping they didn't spot me. They go by the foliage I'm in, stop, and start looking around. They show up as a level ?? warlock and a level 21 priest to me (I was 19 at the time). At this point, I'm terrified. I hit my stealth and go deeper into the foliage off the road. They start coming towards where I am, and my only option is to jump onto a large rock next to me. I get on the rock, and they're looking around the base of the rock for me. At this point, I realized they must have known I was stealthed and were trying to get me in range to reveal my location. The level ?? will spot me very easily.

I quickly weigh my options... then act. I jump off from the rock behind the ?? level player and pull off a "Sap" attack which makes it so he's stunned for 30 seconds until attacked. This done, my stealth is gone... I hit my "sprint" key and tear off across the road into more foliage, the 21 priest running after me.

Thinking I can get away, suddenly I see 2 wolves directly in front of me. They start chasing as well. I'm thinking I'm dead for sure now... the wolves will hit me with a stun and the priest will finish me off. Then I hit my "20 seconds improved dodge ability" and miraculously make it outside of the two wolves' aggro range without a stun.

Still running through the underbrush, I swivel my viewpoint around to see the dwarf still giving chase. I turn the viewpoint back, and see a road off to my left. Roads mean safety... so I make a quick left around a tree towards it. Wouldn't you know it, but there is ANOTHER wolf there, and immediately aggros me. I make it to the road, then WHAM I'm stunned. I turn around and desperately engage the wolf, and see the dwarf running full speed towards me. Knowing I'm about to die, I valiantly hack away at the wolf.

Suddenly, the dwarf stops dead in his tracks. Then a bolt of light appears above his head and crashes into his body. Then another. Then another. Then the dwarf is dead. I finish off the wolf I'm fighiting, turn around, and there is a level 24 Tauren druid standing behind me.

I thanked him profusely.

Now, I have about 30 other stories like this from my PvP experiences. Sure, sometimes there are a bunch of jerks that gank you, but the tradeoff of having amazing experiences like the one above makes it all worth it.

Personally, I LOVE being scared in games. System Shock 2 was incredible to me... and one of the scariest experiences in a game. The Cradle in Thief 3 was great as well.

But NOTHING has had me peeing my pants in unbridled fear than walking through the shadowy Ashenvale forest not knowing what's out there. It is like nothing I've experienced before. Absolutely amazing.
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leo8877
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2004, 11:51:57 PM »

flyinj, that's a damn cool story!
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jpinard
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2004, 03:26:11 AM »

flyinj - Oh that is too cool!!!!!!!!  What server are you on?  I think I'm joining that one smile
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2004, 05:10:18 PM »

I love the PvP servers and think it makes you use talents you would otherwise probably never focus on or use.

Last night, I needed to do a run into Tarren Mill, which had been under attack by the Alliance all night.  I just wanted to fly in, talk to my guy to complete a quest and get out.  But, the Alliance had pushed into the town enough where Horde folks were abandoning it and awaiting for reinforcements.   When I land at the bat handler, there are battles going on 3 sides.  I run to the only open area, and start shooting casters to try and keep them off our higher level guys.  Another wave of humies comes out of the wood, and we retreat to the edge of town.  

About 10 of us mid-20 hordies are standing around the edge of town picking off alliance scum and trying to keep the group from pushing further south.  Luckily, the alliance raiders seemed satisfied with taking the Mill.  Another group of level 30 hordies flank the town from the south and keep the next wave of reinforcements from reaching town while the NPC guards respawn and rejoin the fight.

Finally, someone yells "Here they come!"  I turn around, and 3 or 4 Undead come riding their dead mounts into Tarren Mill.  It was an awesome sight.  We rally behind them, and end up pushing the enemy all the way to South Shore.  I return to Tarren Mill, talk to the NPC, and jump on a bat back to the Undercity.

I know the same thing could have happened on a PvE server, but if it had I probably would not have participated in the battle.  What makes a faction battle a BATTLE is that everyone in the area really has no choice to be involved.  If you don't want that palidan to come smoke your ass when he's done with that Tauren, you'd best lend a hand.  That makes the stakes higher, the sense of community tighter, and the rewards better.
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jpinard
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« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2004, 05:32:22 PM »

jament that is awesome!  and what server are you on too?
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« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2004, 05:43:59 PM »

FlyingJ's post pretty much sums up the reason why I play on PvP servers.

PvP on the Normal servers is pretty much limited to raiding... There's no hunting, ambushing or the thrill of adventuring in a contested zone - those things are vital to my enjoyment of PvP.  My experiences on the PvP severs in WoW have been very positive so far, there's been a couple of idiots but mostly I've met a lot of cool people on both sides.
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2004, 05:54:06 PM »

Quote from: "jament"
I know the same thing could have happened on a PvE server, but if it had I probably would not have participated in the battle. What makes a faction battle a BATTLE is that everyone in the area really has no choice to be involved. If you don't want that palidan to come smoke your ass when he's done with that Tauren, you'd best lend a hand. That makes the stakes higher, the sense of community tighter, and the rewards better.


I guess I am putting my faith in the battlegrounds. Chances are, since there are going to be control points, like towers and graveyards you are going to see a lot more people playing there than just out and about like they are on PvP servers now. PvP is much more fun when you have defined objectives in my opinion (i.e something to fight for other than "we are at war so we fight"). If battlegrounds do shape up to be as good as I think they will be, there will really not be much difference at all between PvP and regular servers save for the lack of griefing. I understand that a lot of people like the grief factor, saying it adds excitement. But its not for me. I want to be able to PvE in peace and PvP with others that are focused on PvP.
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jpinard
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2004, 06:35:06 PM »

Quote from: "Toe"
Quote from: "jament"
I know the same thing could have happened on a PvE server, but if it had I probably would not have participated in the battle. What makes a faction battle a BATTLE is that everyone in the area really has no choice to be involved. If you don't want that palidan to come smoke your ass when he's done with that Tauren, you'd best lend a hand. That makes the stakes higher, the sense of community tighter, and the rewards better.


I guess I am putting my faith in the battlegrounds. Chances are, since there are going to be control points, like towers and graveyards you are going to see a lot more people playing there than just out and about like they are on PvP servers now. PvP is much more fun when you have defined objectives in my opinion (i.e something to fight for other than "we are at war so we fight"). If battlegrounds do shape up to be as good as I think they will be, there will really not be much difference at all between PvP and regular servers save for the lack of griefing. I understand that a lot of people like the grief factor, saying it adds excitement. But its not for me. I want to be able to PvE in peace and PvP with others that are focused on PvP.


Actually toe I disagree with this.  Imagine an excellent coordinated raid of the Horde on Stormwind.  The call goes out to everyone to get as fast as they can to that city to defend it and root them out.  This is something that a PvP server can do BEYOND the battlegrounds.  You can lose your HOME city.  Imagine if the communist Russians came into your backyard, killed everyone they saw including the children, how you'd fight to the bitter death to get them out.  Then once the attack was repulsed and you regained your HOME CITY, how great that would feel.  but you'd always know in the back of your mind, it could happen again.  

The battlegrounds in DaoC simply could not convey this emotion because it was a neutral battleground territory you were fightin over.  Not your very home and hearth!
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2004, 07:01:55 PM »

How do you "lose" your home city? You mean having all the NPC's killed or something? Then everyone who does that is flagged and it's no different from a PvE server.

I like PvP, but prefer the PvE server, since it allows me to choose when I want to PvP.
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Toe
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2004, 07:02:46 PM »

Quote from: "jpinard"

Actually toe I disagree with this.  Imagine an excellent coordinated raid of the Horde on Stormwind.  The call goes out to everyone to get as fast as they can to that city to defend it and root them out.  This is something that a PvP server can do BEYOND the battlegrounds.  You can lose your HOME city.  Imagine if the communist Russians came into your backyard, killed everyone they saw including the children, how you'd fight to the bitter death to get them out.  Then once the attack was repulsed and you regained your HOME CITY, how great that would feel.  but you'd always know in the back of your mind, it could happen again.  

The battlegrounds in DaoC simply could not convey this emotion because it was a neutral battleground territory you were fightin over.  Not your very home and hearth!


That can happen on regular servers also, just that if some people did not want to fight they do not have to. I just do not see what the big deal is about forcing people to deal with PvP if they do not want to.  You bring up DaoC, thats what was so brilliant about it to me. I could PvE when I wanted and PvP when I wanted. Neither were "forced" on me at any given time.

Do not think that the horde can just waltz into Stormwind on a regular server and no one from the Alliance will try to stop them. It will happen, just like it would happen on PvP servers except bystanders that do not want to participate are not forced to.

Edit: Actually, since Stormwind is considered Alliance territory, an attack on the city on a PvP server would follow the exact same dynamics as on a regular server. i.e. Alliance players could not be attacked if they did not attack do anything to activate their PvP flag.
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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2004, 07:04:10 PM »

In my eyes it's not truly pvp unless you (as a paladin) have to worry about some pesky human Rogue deciding he wants your lunch money... or I decide this Dwarf Hnter has been camping my spot too long and drop him like a ton of bricks...   Sure Sure.. now your made the whole Alliance-Horde thing less distinguishable... but thats half the fun...

Although I may snap and make a guy ona pvp server soon... someone should make a pvp list of who plays where with what...
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« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2004, 07:33:54 PM »

Semaj thats a great idea!
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Semaj
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lol
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2004, 01:39:23 AM »

Quote from: "jpinard"
Semaj thats a great idea!


OK I want this one recorded for posterity....  Since I dont think anyone has ever heard that said before smile
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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2004, 07:39:07 PM »

I am pvp.
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« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2004, 07:48:13 AM »

This game just gets better and better. The first time I arrived at Underworld I couldn't figure out why it seemed abandoned. Finally I found the passage into the bowels of the city and was stunned at how cool it is.

I'm definitely going Pvp after FlynJ's story.....I only have a couple of toons so far and they're both around level 6 so it shouldn't be much of a problem to ditch them....

Thanks for the great stories guys.
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