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Author Topic: Anyone interested in playing EVE again?  (Read 1603 times)
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Razgon
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« on: May 27, 2011, 01:10:47 PM »

Hi guys,

just wondering if anyone was interested in playing EVE online again? We had a fun group going about a year ago, and I recently resubbed for 2 months. Lots of new stuff on the way with Incarna coming the 21st of june as well.

anyways - just putting a feeler out there!

btw, the corp from last is stil there, and for some reason, I'm the CEO (And founder) so I can get you all in...cheap ;-)
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 11:35:29 PM »

Incarna is coming folks...

Soon
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2011, 09:03:59 PM »

I just started playing a few weeks back and decided to purchase. Are there any regulars playing these days? I may restart a character since my first one, which I'm still playing, is kind of unfocused. Pretty sure I want to be an explorer/salvager with some missions thrown in as I'm finding these to be the most enjoyable.
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 01:50:02 PM »

I started in April on a mostly mining career path. I figure it's a relatively safe way to make some cash and use the time to train up skills. I'm in the Arnon area under the name ChaoZ Dai-Ichii.
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 03:46:04 AM »

By the way, if anybody is looking to start Eve, I can hook you up with an extended trial period (21-days). If you sign up after that, I get a free month. I'll kick you back a couple of million, which is a good amount to start with.
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 06:44:49 AM »

Maybe let's  see  ninja  ninja  ninja
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 01:47:10 PM »

So....it seems the official forums are abuzz with Incarna hate. Does anyone here have a levelheaded impression of it?
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 05:48:04 PM »

I've heard from a friend that the new graphic overhaul is hard on PCs and graphic cards, especially laptops, and is very NVidia biased (so ATI users get screwed). Also, paying a BILLION ISK for something as simple as an eyeplate (with the new vanity system that's entirely optional) is absolutely absurd.
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 06:08:28 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 22, 2011, 05:48:04 PM

paying a BILLION ISK

it's times like that that we need a Doctor Evil smiley.
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Razgon
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 06:16:33 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 22, 2011, 05:48:04 PM

I've heard from a friend that the new graphic overhaul is hard on PCs and graphic cards, especially laptops, and is very NVidia biased (so ATI users get screwed). Also, paying a BILLION ISK for something as simple as an eyeplate (with the new vanity system that's entirely optional) is absolutely absurd.

Worked fine on my laptop with an ATI card, but it was pretty boring. Then again, I don't know anything about EVE, really, but the captain walking about thing? Meh...
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The Grue
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 09:08:26 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 22, 2011, 05:48:04 PM

Also, paying a BILLION ISK for something as simple as an eyeplate (with the new vanity system that's entirely optional) is absolutely absurd.

Then don't pay it.  I'll never get why people complain about this stuff.  It's like anything in life...you are willing to pay the asking price for it or you're not.  Kotaku wrote an article about this today and it boggles my mind why they bothered complaining, not to mention Luke has his facts wrong.  There are tons of people in EVE who wouldn't blink an eye at throwing away a billion ISK.  It's pocket change to them.
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2011, 12:26:37 AM »

Incarna ain't bad, but the Captain's Quarters is utterly useless. I turned it off. Won't be any use to it until the rest of the station features are implemented.
Turrets are nice. The Agent Finder is very useful.

It needs a lot of fine tuning though. Seems very poorly optimized.
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Razgon
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2011, 10:16:09 PM »

No-one is following the massive protest that is going on right now? Thousands of players are trying to crash the servers by shooting at unshootable monumens, the forums are almost dead to the massive amount of posting, and all of it because of a leaked internal newsletter called "Greed is good", where they discuss selling ingame items in the shop for real money

Revolution!!
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2011, 11:53:00 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2011, 10:16:09 PM

No-one is following the massive protest that is going on right now? Thousands of players are trying to crash the servers by shooting at unshootable monumens, the forums are almost dead to the massive amount of posting, and all of it because of a leaked internal newsletter called "Greed is good", where they discuss selling ingame items in the shop for real money

Revolution!!

Saw some blurbs about.

Is it really all over a memo?  Or are they actually selling the stuff?

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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2011, 11:57:43 PM »

I played EVE off and on for a few years but never really got into it for some reason.  Sounds like they screwed the pooch on this one.  Guess they got greedy.
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Razgon
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 07:08:00 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 25, 2011, 11:53:00 PM

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2011, 10:16:09 PM

No-one is following the massive protest that is going on right now? Thousands of players are trying to crash the servers by shooting at unshootable monumens, the forums are almost dead to the massive amount of posting, and all of it because of a leaked internal newsletter called "Greed is good", where they discuss selling ingame items in the shop for real money

Revolution!!

Saw some blurbs about.

Is it really all over a memo?  Or are they actually selling the stuff?



Eve is a player driven economy, and everything you see people have, is a result of work. Now, CCP will not deny that they will begin selling other than purely vanity stuff.

Think of it in wow terms - Youve reached lvl 85, gotten the sword of ultimate destruction, and this has taken you 12 months. The nextdoor boy at 11 just bought the same thing on his second day in the game. How would you feel?
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denoginizer
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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 01:52:54 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 26, 2011, 07:08:00 AM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 25, 2011, 11:53:00 PM

Quote from: Razgon on June 24, 2011, 10:16:09 PM

No-one is following the massive protest that is going on right now? Thousands of players are trying to crash the servers by shooting at unshootable monumens, the forums are almost dead to the massive amount of posting, and all of it because of a leaked internal newsletter called "Greed is good", where they discuss selling ingame items in the shop for real money

Revolution!!

Saw some blurbs about.

Is it really all over a memo?  Or are they actually selling the stuff?



Eve is a player driven economy, and everything you see people have, is a result of work. Now, CCP will not deny that they will begin selling other than purely vanity stuff.

Think of it in wow terms - Youve reached lvl 85, gotten the sword of ultimate destruction, and this has taken you 12 months. The nextdoor boy at 11 just bought the same thing on his second day in the game. How would you feel?

I don't play MMOs so maybe my perspective is skewed.  But why would I care.  Isn't the fun of the game getting to 85? Not being at 85?

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Razgon
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 02:25:13 PM »

Since its a player driven economy, adding ingame items that others have spent months getting to be available from cash is not a good idea.

They've lost a ton of subscribers so far. Also, its not at all what the devs promised. There's a lot more behind as well, as Devs disregarding the community that is now comprised of hardcore players, and seemingly shooting for the casual group instead, which frankly, will never play Eve.

A lot of people have joined the game Perpetuum instead, since its kinda similar in mechanics, just with robots instead of spaceships
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 06:03:59 PM »

Personally I don't understand why it is such a huge deal.  You can buy time cards, convert them in PLEX, which you can then sell for in-game isk and buy whatever you want.  It's already in the game to be able to shortcut your way through paying money.  However, with EVE, you have to have the skills to go along with it.  So, you can buy a badass ship, but you still have to wait months to be able to pilot it.

The other thing that bothers me about this over-reaction to the internal newsletter is they've actually not implemented any of it.  They're talking about it, sure, but Blizzard was talking about forcing everyone to use RealID (or whatever it was called) and they never went through with it.  The Internet really embarrasses me, sometimes, with the way people throw tantrums like 4-year-olds.

Edit - Also, I wouldn't say they've lost a *ton* of subscribers.  I got on yesterday and there were 50K people logged in.  Seems about what it usually is.  I think in the end, the people who will get pissed about this will be few and they will go away and the game will probably be better for their type of personality to be out of it.  In-game, I've talked to tons of people who don't see what the big deal is since most MMOs have some mechanic like this in it now that a majority of them have gone F2P.  Right now the only thing in EVE like this is vanity items.  It could be they want to go a route where you can shortcut through buying things and maybe they offer F2P for that as well.  At the end of the day, we don't know what they are planning and everyone is running around just reacting instead of waiting to see what they really have to say.  Zulu has already posted they will be addressing this whole thing soon.  And, like I said, you can pay real money to buy anything in the game right now (through selling PLEX), so what is different?
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Razgon
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 06:13:09 PM »

The "ton of players" they have lost, is those saying they have unsubscribed on the forums. Last count i saw was 6000, which is a lot in a 300.000 playerbase game. The massive population is due to the protest going on.

They really could just say "we are not going to implement pay to win systems" and it would be fine.

meanwhile, the massive influx of people to Perpetuum has made their servers overload.
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2011, 06:17:32 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 26, 2011, 06:13:09 PM


meanwhile, the massive influx of people to Perpetuum has made their servers overload.

Good, those people can whine at them.
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Razgon
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 07:29:04 PM »

You sound very angry for some reason?

Anyways, in case you are *really* interested in whats going on, and why this is the latest in the line of things going wrong in the game, there is an excellent analysis and writeup here:

http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html

I'll repost some of it, but its too long to post in its entirety

Quote
CCP Pann, there are a number of issues you take up, and I feel they are all somewhat missing the point. You list them as:

    The high cost of goods in the Noble Market.
    Captain’s Quarters.
    Performance issues with Incarna.

    But beyond that, and actually far more importantly, we also have the bit you really want to read:
    “Greed is good”
    Communication issues

But let's begin with the three points that you have raised (and not quite understood).
The Noble Market

No. The high cost of the NeX items is not really an issue, or rather, it is a different issue than what you seem to suggest. It is not “omgz, this is too expensive”, but rather “omgz, do you have any idea about how microtransactions work?” This thing can be broken up into six parts:
The purpose of the NeX.

What is it, exactly? Everyone assumes that the purpose of the NeX is to be an MT store: trade cash-item (PLEX) for in-game item (clothes etc.) via granular currency (AUR). The assumption is also that its purpose is to make CCP money.

While some might take offence to you making money, meh… I don't agree with that view personally — you're free to invent your earning schemes (but we'll get to that). My problem is rather, why on earth are you making an MT store where the pricing breaks the basic rule of MT: make prices so low that they're not a factor in the decision-making process? The problem in my eyes isn't that the stuff is expensive, it's that it breaks this rule and creates a mental barrier to purchase, which means it fails at the purpose of making money.

It makes you look inept
The purpose of AUR.

Again, what is it exactly? We were told that you wanted a sub-PLEX currency, and yet the first thing we see of it is a multi-PLEX usage. The whole point was to create some kind of granularity, but none of that is needed with the high prices you've chosen. Ok, fine… a pair of boots cost less than a PLEX worth of AUR, but that's about it.

Still, you could have released this shop without AUR being in the game, and simply have those smaller items come in packs of 2–3, which could then have been released by the buyers onto the market.

All in all, it makes the AUR seem redundant and pointless.
Pricing structure.

Tied to the purpose of AUR is the graph you made when this was all presented — the flow of currencies. PLEX → AUR → Items → Market → ISK → PLEX → … etc. There's just one problem: with the prices you've chosen, you've made sure that this cannot happen. The only sensible reason to put an AUR item on the market is to add a margin and make more ISK from it than if you just sold the PLEX directly, but with just about everything costing more than one PLEX, why would anyone bother? They could just get the PLEX at a lower cost and cash out the item themselves.

This ties in to the lack of actual granularity: if someone wants to break up a PLEX into AUR and spend those on 5–6 items that could be sold with a profit margin, then they'd be going after the market of those who just want one item and who have no use for the left-over change, should they buy a full PLEX. With the high AUR prices you've picked, there is no room left over for this decision: you won't be left with a huge pile of loose change when you buy the one item you want, so you won't look for other means to get that one item, so you won't create demand for a secondary market. And thus the circle is instantly broken.

In other words, it breaks the purpose of creating new markets.

As a corollary, this creates a barrier to purchase and an exclusivity that puts a heavy damper on the demand for these items, which links back to point 1a above: without a secondary mass-market to gobble up items, there will be no primary market to buy more than incidental items for personal use, which in term means there will be less cash in your pockets (or less liability reduction in your books, if you like). This could also be expanded to the decision not to make these things destructible, and create a demand that way, but that's for another time and place.

So again, it makes you look inept.
Exclusivity and development cost

Ok, so the high price is there to make the stuff exclusive — feeding people's vanity, as it were, never mind that the most expensive item is described as “common” (but we'll get to the lore problem of this expansion elsewhere). But that just raises the question: how much time went into this thing that only very few are meant to use?

“But the MT cost pays for the development” you might say, but that is deflated by the volume-vs-price point made earlier: an exclusive, high-price item will not bring in as much cash as a high-volume one. So is this “waste” of development time really worth it, or could these additional designers not be put to better use for something that benefits more players? And that's assuming it is really additional designers brought in to create their own meal ticket — if not, it takes away existing developers that should be working on far more generally applicable content.

It casts doubt on your ability to prioritise properly.
Technical limitations

It seems that a lot of what you want to do currently can't be done due to simple technical limitations. We've been told that the released iteration of the NeX shop can only handle AUR, and I think a large amount of the problems can be traced back to this.

In particular, this limitation means that you have no ability to distinguish between currencies when it comes to cost. $70 (ie. 4 PLEX / 14,000 AUR) is an utterly barmy price for an in-game item, as both your players and the gaming media have been pointing out. At the same time, 1.5bn ISK (a low-ball current value of 4 PLEX/14,000 AUR) isn't completely off for an semi-exclusive and high-bling item — costly, yes, but in line with what people will spend on other “look-at-me” stuff. With the limitations of the NeX, you have no way of distinguishing or differentiating those two costs, so they become one and the same.

Had you been able to use other inputs than AUR, you could have maintained that exclusive in-game price point without making it cost $70. Had it been, say, 1,000 AUR (≈100M ISK) + 1.4bn ISK, the perceived MT price would have been just $5, and the additional ISK cost had simply been an indicator of “this is a high-class item”. Moreover, going back to the point about granularity, this would also have meant that an enterprising (and cash-heavy) trader could have bought three of those, invested 4.2bn ISK and sold them on the market at a markup for those who didn't want to slaughter a whole PLEX just to get an ear — suddenly, the 1.4bn ISK is simply an investment cost with a projected return.

Basically, the perception of high price is in large part due to the technical limitation that requires everything to have a fixed, real-currency cost that must be high IRL in order to be high in-game. This makes the NeX store seem rushed and counter-productive. It also matches in-game and out-of-game pricing in a way that many players are not comfortable with.
No expectations management

A lot of the anger about the NeX stores comes from the simple fact that none of this was known by the player base, nor had the CSM been informed about the final result. Instead, your are using the live environment as a first testing grounds for the values, which means that you inescapably set yourself up for a flood of complaints no matter what you do. Are the prices too high? Early adopters will hate you for lowering the value of something they bought. Are the prices too low? Speculation will be rampant and people will complain that you mess with the market. This really should have been a pre-release debate about what seemed like reasonable costs, both in terms of in-game and real-life currency (…which might also have highlighted the technical issues above).

In short, using TQ as a testing server is not a good idea to begin with, but downright stupid for a first test. Again, it makes the NeX seem rushed and it makes you seem inept.

Moreover, the prices came as a shock to the player base because they already had an established perception of what was a reasonable price for an MT vanity item, and none of those perceptions were ever collected. At no point was there a discussion of what we could expect; what we were expecting; why we might see a disconnect between the two; and how/what/when something could be done to overcome that disconnect. This plays into a broader theme that has developed over the years, where you — CCP — throw stuff out there as a fait accompli (regardless of whether it is meant as such or not, see the API licensing debacle), and where you have cultivated a habit in the community of feedback though panic. True or not, the perception is that the only reasonable response seems to be to shout bad words at you, stage mass protests, and create threadnoughts to get your attention, because we sure as hell never get it by calmly trying to say things before they're out.

In other words, it highlights an on-going problem you have at CCP when it comes to communicating and taking feedback from the community.
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The Grue
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 07:44:13 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 26, 2011, 07:29:04 PM

You sound very angry for some reason?

I'm just finally fed up with whiny Internet people who bitch every time something is not to their liking and then make it a point to ruin other people's experiences.  I'm well-versed in what people think is wrong with with EVE.  I just don't agree with it and in speaking with many people in the game, others don't really seem upset about it, either.  If they're going to quit, they should just go and not sit in Jita and disrupt my game experience.
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Razgon
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2011, 07:53:56 PM »

Fair enough, just remember its not me who's disrupting you'r gaming experience ;-)

Anyways, protesting is probably the last thing they can do, even though it does hit others, before what they see as their idealized game go down the drain. I can certainly understand that notion. It *has* worked as in them calling in the CSM team for an emergency meeting about what to do and what future EVE has in stores for its players.
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2011, 08:24:20 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 26, 2011, 07:53:56 PM

Fair enough, just remember its not me who's disrupting you'r gaming experience ;-)

Anyways, protesting is probably the last thing they can do, even though it does hit others, before what they see as their idealized game go down the drain. I can certainly understand that notion. It *has* worked as in them calling in the CSM team for an emergency meeting about what to do and what future EVE has in stores for its players.

Oh, I was never mad at you.
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2012, 05:16:45 PM »

So CCP is going to try to make EVE Online a bit less devestating for new players.

New website that doesn't blow noobs away?  Check.   link
New introductory videos for new players?  Check.   Example - watch full screen, it looks good
New "trailer-type" video they always do when a new expansion is on the way?  Check.   I think they're calling it Awakening

I haven't played in a very long time, and as always, I see new stuff and go, "Damn, I should play this again."  ...but I almost never do.

LD
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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2012, 12:41:22 PM »

Greetings from null-sec! The Penny Arcade Report tours the offices of CCP
*Just a fun little tour-feature.
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« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2012, 11:19:36 PM »

Missile turrets and animations.... resolve wavering....
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