Elder Scrolls Online

[CeeKay]

just some speculation based off of an earlier, non-specific announcement, but I think it would be a bad idea unless they made the combat exactly the same as it is in the single player games, i.e. no auto-targeting or blocking.

oh, and there may be spoilers for those of you who haven't completed any of the games yet.

[Daehawk]

Id play it. And I agree on combat. Keep ikt real time and stuff. Im sick of fantasy but still this would be interesting.

[CeeKay]

apparently it was supposed to be revealed last year.

[skystride]

Id play it. And I agree on combat. Keep ikt real time and stuff. Im sick of fantasy but still this would be interesting.

Real time and MMO don't mix well unless it's heavily instanced.  Lets wait until hardware catches up.

[TiLT]

Bethesda had better have a really solid plan on how to market this. By making the Elder Scrolls a MMORPG, they take away pretty much every single thing I enjoy about the series. Also, as a fantasy setting it's generic like hell and doesn't really separate itself from the crowd in any way.

Edit: Real time and MMO don't mix well? Are you saying that most MMORPGs today are turn-based? In that case you might want to look up the definition of that word. Every single MMORPG I've seen so far has been real time. Just because there's a pause between attacks doesn't change that. For example, many first-person shooters give you guns that need to be charged for a few seconds between each shot (often against bosses that also have large pauses between their attacks). That doesn't make those games turn-based, so why should it for MMORPGs? (Using "ticks" to synchronize timing between the server and the client doesn't count as turn-based either)

[Razgon]

It could be great - especially if they add all the small stuff they have done in all their other games - right down to plates/paper/cups/ and so on that you can knock down - places to display your armor, sooo many different outfits, player housing, spell custumizing and in general, all that makes Elder scrolls such an enjoyable thing to play.

Oh - and stay away from PVP - completely.... MMO's dont need PVP to compete - actually, I fear its what destroyes many  MMOs - the struggle to equilize toons so that they are "equal" in PVP, taking away resources and its more or less impossible unless you completely nerf every single type of character. IF they have to include pvp, they should make it seperate from ones normal toons, as LOTRO does it.

I still want an Elder Scrolls 5 though , playing Oblivion right now.

Oh, there are sooo many ways to do this - perhaps even allowing player-run shards/servers where mods can be used and so on....

[skystride]

Edit: Real time and MMO don't mix well? Are you saying that most MMORPGs today are turn-based? In that case you might want to look up the definition of that word. Every single MMORPG I've seen so far has been real time. Just because there's a pause between attacks doesn't change that. For example, many first-person shooters give you guns that need to be charged for a few seconds between each shot (often against bosses that also have large pauses between their attacks). That doesn't make those games turn-based, so why should it for MMORPGs? (Using "ticks" to synchronize timing between the server and the client doesn't count as turn-based either)

Thank for the lesson but you know when he said "real time" he meant having to aim, block etc. in real time.  Otherwise he could have just said "I hope this game is like every other mmo".  Calculating hit detection, bounding boxes etc in real time with 500+ players (massively multiplayer right?) just doesn't work given today's technology.

[rittchard]

Edit: Real time and MMO don't mix well? Are you saying that most MMORPGs today are turn-based? In that case you might want to look up the definition of that word. Every single MMORPG I've seen so far has been real time. Just because there's a pause between attacks doesn't change that. For example, many first-person shooters give you guns that need to be charged for a few seconds between each shot (often against bosses that also have large pauses between their attacks). That doesn't make those games turn-based, so why should it for MMORPGs? (Using "ticks" to synchronize timing between the server and the client doesn't count as turn-based either)

Thank for the lesson but you know when he said "real time" he meant having to aim, block etc. in real time.  Otherwise he could have just said "I hope this game is like every other mmo".  Calculating hit detection, bounding boxes etc in real time with 500+ players (massively multiplayer right?) just doesn't work given today's technology.

It looks/sounds like APB is going to take a stab at something like this - though it is instanced, they are claiming 50v50 battles (with an overall server of 10000 people) using the Unreal Engine 3 as the baseline (so I assume gameplay will be FPS/action-like).  Still, 50 on 50 is clearly not 500 and we've yet to see if they can pull it off effectively.

[Razgon]

Edit: Real time and MMO don't mix well? Are you saying that most MMORPGs today are turn-based? In that case you might want to look up the definition of that word. Every single MMORPG I've seen so far has been real time. Just because there's a pause between attacks doesn't change that. For example, many first-person shooters give you guns that need to be charged for a few seconds between each shot (often against bosses that also have large pauses between their attacks). That doesn't make those games turn-based, so why should it for MMORPGs? (Using "ticks" to synchronize timing between the server and the client doesn't count as turn-based either)

Thank for the lesson but you know when he said "real time" he meant having to aim, block etc. in real time.  Otherwise he could have just said "I hope this game is like every other mmo".  Calculating hit detection, bounding boxes etc in real time with 500+ players (massively multiplayer right?) just doesn't work given today's technology.

You'r thinking PVP here, right? Because in PVE it surely does. Just make the damn game without PVP - plenty of other games where people can bash each other, there's no real need for it in an Elder Scrolls game

[skystride]

Edit: Real time and MMO don't mix well? Are you saying that most MMORPGs today are turn-based? In that case you might want to look up the definition of that word. Every single MMORPG I've seen so far has been real time. Just because there's a pause between attacks doesn't change that. For example, many first-person shooters give you guns that need to be charged for a few seconds between each shot (often against bosses that also have large pauses between their attacks). That doesn't make those games turn-based, so why should it for MMORPGs? (Using "ticks" to synchronize timing between the server and the client doesn't count as turn-based either)

Thank for the lesson but you know when he said "real time" he meant having to aim, block etc. in real time.  Otherwise he could have just said "I hope this game is like every other mmo".  Calculating hit detection, bounding boxes etc in real time with 500+ players (massively multiplayer right?) just doesn't work given today's technology.

You'r thinking PVP here, right? Because in PVE it surely does. Just make the damn game without PVP - plenty of other games where people can bash each other, there's no real need for it in an Elder Scrolls game

A PvE game that reacts fast like an FPS would run into the same issues.  I think the biggest challenge is bandwith and synchronizing all the clients.  The player caps in a FPS is a good indication of where technology is at i.e. 16->32->64->100? (if MAG pulls it off but I think MAG is cheating).  I know we are talking about a RPG here but if we want realtime responses like a FPS then the RPG will run into the same wall that FPS developers have been facing.

Of course the easy solution is instancing.  But then the "massively" part of the MMO just becomes a matchmaking server/chat room, sort of like Guild Wars.

[CeeKay]

a new rumor that we'll be hearing about this in May.

[Soulchilde]

Joystiq is stating they will have additional information soon

[CeeKay]

I wonder what this means for the single player series.

[Soulchilde]

You can probably remove the ? in the title now

[CeeKay]

You can probably remove the ? in the title now

 

[Eel Snave]

Part of what makes Skyrim and variants so great is being the one super-powered person in the entire world. I'm not sure that making it an MMO is going to be a good idea.

I'm afraid it's going to turn into an Oprah giveaway: "And YOU'RE Dragonborn! And YOU'RE Dragonborn! And YOU'RE Dragonborn! You're allllll DRAAAGONNNNBOOOORRRRN!"

[CeeKay]

Part of what makes Skyrim and variants so great is being the one super-powered person in the entire world. I'm not sure that making it an MMO is going to be a good idea.

I'm afraid it's going to turn into an Oprah giveaway: "And YOU'RE Dragonborn! And YOU'RE Dragonborn! And YOU'RE Dragonborn! You're allllll DRAAAGONNNNBOOOORRRRN!"

well it takes 1000 years before Skyrim, so it could be an age of heroes.

[EngineNo9]

Part of what makes Skyrim and variants so great is being the one super-powered person in the entire world. I'm not sure that making it an MMO is going to be a good idea.

I'm afraid it's going to turn into an Oprah giveaway: "And YOU'RE Dragonborn! And YOU'RE Dragonborn! And YOU'RE Dragonborn! You're allllll DRAAAGONNNNBOOOORRRRN!"

well it takes 1000 years before Skyrim, so it could be an age of heroes.

I love how all of these fictions (like this, or Star Wars, or whatever) throw around thousands of years and still expect people to believe that society and technology is basically all the same regardless. 

Anyway, it's about time they announced this.  I hope the extra time has allowed them to make it better.

[PR_GMR]

Interesting. I wonder how they'll make it work. Because, as stated above, if I'm not the most powerful person in the world in an Elder Scrolls game... then what's the point?

[TiLT]

This is Bethesda's biggest mistake with the Elder Scrolls property ever. This is going to bite them in the ass. Hard! Who the fuck cares about Tamriel? It's one of the most generic RPG settings we have these days (quick, name 5 of your favorite Elder Scrolls characters! Full names only! Ready to give up yet?), and is only successful because of the quality of the game mechanics and the sheer scale of the things. By going MMO they're going to have to change the game mechanics and they'll no longer be competitive when it comes to scale. All we're left with is the dull setting.

[Arkon]

This is Bethesda's biggest mistake with the Elder Scrolls property ever. This is going to bite them in the ass. Hard! Who the fuck cares about Tamriel? It's one of the most generic RPG settings we have these days (quick, name 5 of your favorite Elder Scrolls characters! Full names only! Ready to give up yet?), and is only successful because of the quality of the game mechanics and the sheer scale of the things. By going MMO they're going to have to change the game mechanics and they'll no longer be competitive when it comes to scale. All we're left with is the dull setting.

I care about Tamriel, a whole hell of a lot, and am looking forward to being able to fully explore the world.

[kronovan]

I'm not convinced the setting can't work well as a MMO. A fan adapted Elder Scrolls to a Tabletop RPG system earlier this year and althought I've only read through the doc, I can see it where it'd work well for a party-based RPG. It definitely needs some adjusting from the play mechanics/systems of the standalone videogames. The biggest challenge is the arcana system, since there's 6 different schools and any character could theoretically use any or all of them. That requires some clever balancing if you don't want casters to be overpowered toons. The setting has quite has a number of nice features though,  that if adapted correctly can help to make the PC's in a party of characters that are unique and interesting. What I see as one of the biggest strengths is that there's 10 different races and a majority of them are quite distinct. I think where Bethesda could possibly screw up is if they try and make it more of a class-based MMO rather than a skills-based one.

quick, name 5 of your favorite Elder Scrolls characters! Full names only! Ready to give up yet?

No doubt about it; the personalities of NPC's is about the weakest aspect of ES games. That said, I'm betting there's a number of fans that could easily name 5 favorite geographical locations. Heck I'm far from a big fan of the series -having skipped Arena, Balltespire and Redguard- but I can even easily name 5 different countries/regions let alone 5 distinct and favorite locations.

I just hope its F2P, otherwise it'd have to be pretty spectacuclar for me to pay a monthly sub for it.

[Destructor]

A fan adapted Elder Scrolls to a Tabletop RPG system earlier this year and althought I've only read through the doc, I can see it where it'd work well for a party-based RPG.

I'd love to read that. Have a link?

[Knightshade Dragon]

"I was once a single player adventurer like you, but then I took some $9.95 DLC to the knee and my horse armor fell off."

[CeeKay]

A fan adapted Elder Scrolls to a Tabletop RPG system earlier this year and althought I've only read through the doc, I can see it where it'd work well for a party-based RPG.

I'd love to read that. Have a link?

is it this one?

I want to reserve Arrotoo d'Nee for my character name.

[morlac]

This is Bethesda's biggest mistake with the Elder Scrolls property ever. This is going to bite them in the ass. Hard! Who the fuck cares about Tamriel? It's one of the most generic RPG settings we have these days (quick, name 5 of your favorite Elder Scrolls characters! Full names only! Ready to give up yet?), and is only successful because of the quality of the game mechanics and the sheer scale of the things. By going MMO they're going to have to change the game mechanics and they'll no longer be competitive when it comes to scale. All we're left with is the dull setting.

I have played most every MMORPG and some of them for years.  I can't give you 5 full names of NPC's from any of them.....shrug.  I rather like the setting of the Elder Scrolls.

[kronovan]

A fan adapted Elder Scrolls to a Tabletop RPG system earlier this year and althought I've only read through the doc, I can see it where it'd work well for a party-based RPG.

I'd love to read that. Have a link?

is it this one?

Nope, its a fan-made 50 page PDF adaptation for the Savage Worlds RPG system, pragmatically entitled The Elder Scrolls, A Savage World Conversion.  It's hosted on a site called the Journeyman GM. I'd give you the direct link to the PDF, but this is the Journeyman GM site link that the creator posted in the SW forums; just click "The Elder Scolls" link and you'll find the PDF download link about half way down the next web page. Keep in mind that this requires you to already have the Savage Worlds Deluxe book in order to fully comprehend it. Its also only the 2nd version of a work in progress, and likely to see a number of changes yet. If you have any questions about it though, just create an Elder Scrolls Savage Worlds thread in the General Gaming forum and I'll attempt to answer all of them, whether they're about the conversion or the SW system.

[PR_GMR]

"I was once a single player adventurer like you, but then I took some $9.95 DLC to the knee and my horse armor fell off."

 

[Soulchilde]

"I was once a single player adventurer like you, but then I took some $9.95 DLC to the knee and my horse armor fell off."

Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kronovan]

"I was once a single player adventurer like you, but then I took some $9.95 DLC to the knee and my horse armor fell off."

Elven or Imperial?  

[The Grue]

The me back in about 2002 would have been all over this one. Now...not interested at all, between not being able to get into playing Skyrim, despite being a huge Elder Scrolls fan and not really caring much about MMOs anymore, despite having once been the type of person that had to play them all.

[Knightshade Dragon]

Boring announcement trailer....HO! 

[iloveplywood]

The me back in about 2002 would have been all over this one. Now...not interested at all, between not being able to get into playing Skyrim, despite being a huge Elder Scrolls fan and not really caring much about MMOs anymore, despite having once been the type of person that had to play them all.

They also missed all the potential buyers from 2002 that have died.  They blew it! 

[CeeKay]

<snicker>

[Destructor]

With the leaked Game Informer stuffs, I honestly have to say that I'm not very impressed so far. But we'll see as time goes on.

[kronovan]

The Director has been confimred to be Matt Frior, who was a producer/designer on Mythic's DAoC and it's awesome 1st expansion Shrouded Isles - yeah! Then he was the Executive Producer of DAoC's economy nerfing Trials of Atlantis expansion - booh! He redeemed hiself by Exec Producing the Catacombs expansion - yeah again.

Something else, this IGDaily netcast has some confirmation that character development will be class-based as opposed to skills-based. There's also info that it will feature RvR with 3 factions; 1st includes the Nords, Dunmer and Argonians; 2nd Altmers, Bosmers and Khajiit; and the 3rd is Bretons, Redguards and Orcs. I can undestand those groupings based on the geography, but it leads me to wonder how close the races will be to the vidoegames with 2 of the strongest tanks being grouped together in the 3rd. There was also some more info in this Toms Hardware article. Apparently the RvR/PvP is supposed to be similar to the central battlgeround in DAoC, but instead of an inconsequential keep it's actually the Emperor's throne in Cyrodiil that's being fought over - kinda explains the absense of the Imperials as a race.

I don't know - making this class-based and with a key developer from DAoC that I have questions about, is making me less thrilled about this. I've played in skills-based MMORGP's that best 90% of the class-based ones I've played, so I'm shaking my head at that decision. With Frior involved I also have concerns that the classes might have specialization paths like DAoC, which were highly succeptible to dev team nerfing. I love the idea of playing 3 faction RvR again like DAoC and I like the setting, so I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

[The Grue]

I don't know - making this class-based and with a key developer from DAoC that I have questions about, is making me less thrilled about this. I've played in skills-based MMORGP's that best 90% of the class-based ones I've played, so I'm shaking my head at that decision. With Frior involved I also have concerns that the classes might have specialization paths like DAoC, which were highly succeptible to dev team nerfing. I love the idea of playing 3 faction RvR again like DAoC and I like the setting, so I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

Exactly.  They could have done something cool in the MMO genre by making it not class-based and instead like it works in the single player Elder Scrolls games.  Instead, they are probably just going to make another WoW clone MMO.

[kronovan]

As I watch the interviews they're releasing on this, they're pushing all the wrong buttons for me. Maybe I just don't know the ES canon as much as I thought I did, but I don't see all the warfare between the 3 factions that Matt Fior comments about in his interview. To me it just sounds like a lot of reskinning of the ES setting with the realm aspect from DAoC. Not that I'm not for forgoing some setting or lore in the name of good MMO gameplay, but this sounds like they're hijaking the world for another game. I still can't fathom why they think it's a good idea to make it class-based as opposed to skill-based.

I really want to find something to like because my son and nephew are big fans of the series and will no doubt be playing day 1, but I'm about 99% sure I'm OUT on this.

[CeeKay]

the main story will be 100% solo.  so they're taking the Old Republic route it seems:

"In the Elder Scrolls games you're always the hero, whether you want to be or not. You go out there and you kill the dragons; You kill Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion; in Morrowind, you're up there fighting the Tribunal - those are huge, global, epic things that you don't want to stand in line to do in an MMO. The last thing you want to do is have the final confrontation with Mehrunes Dagon as he's stomping across the Imperial City, and you see like 15 guys behind you waiting to kill him because they're on the same quest.

"As MMO online designers, the thing we wanted to make sure we hit the most was that feeling that you're awesome, you're the hero. And we do that through a mix of technology, where when I am confronting a major foe in the game, I'm doing it in an instance where I am alone."

"And we have a whole part of the game that is 100 per cent solo," he said, "which is the main story, where the world focuses on you - you are the hero, everything you do is solo and the world reacts to you that way."

[TiLT]

the main story will be 100% solo.  so they're taking the Old Republic route it seems:

I'd argue that The Old Republic took the Lord of the Rings Online route, and there may be other MMOs that did the same before them too. Nowadays all the main story quests in LOTRO are solo, and I think it's partly because of the success of that approach that The Old Republic is designed the way it is.