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Author Topic: DC Universe Impressions  (Read 23252 times)
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Gryndyl
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« on: December 07, 2010, 08:33:17 PM »

Cross posted to OO as if I'm going to write this much I'ma gonna post it  icon_biggrin

Overview

DC Universe Online, launching on PC and PS3, offers itself as the opportunity to be a superhero or supervillain in the DC world, fighting alongside and against the likes of Batman, Superman, Lex Luthor, The Joker, et al. Does it deliver?

To make it clear from the beginning, this is not an MMORPG but, rather, an MMOAG; Massively Multiplayer Online Action Game. Many of the standard MMORPG conventions are here-leveling, gaining new abilities as you level, quests and loot drops. The combat, which naturally makes up the vast majority of your game time, is a completely different animal however. The easiest comparison would be to console action games, such as God of War or Prototype. Click the mouse or controller button and you melee attack (I'll be using mouse terms from here on out as that's what I use but the game is completely playable on either a PS or XBox controller). Right click and you make a ranged attack. Various series of left clicks and right clicks activate different combos, all taking place at full action game speed as enemies (and you) get flung about, knocked down and get sent tumbling by explosions. The MMORPG 'whack-a-mole' bar does make an appearance as the means to fire off your various superpowers. It's limited to six powers on the bar, however, and once your character has gained more than six powers you'll need to pick and choose to set up your bar how you want it. Each character has a second 'stance', changing from the standard DPS stance into a tank stance, controller stance or healer stance, depending on their base power set. These stances each offer their own power bar that can be set up differently than the character's standard DPS bar. Most of these powers can be used repeatedly, as long as you have the energy to do so. Some of the more powerful ones, however, do have cool down timers, or require expenditure of "supercharge" energy which can only be gained, slowly, through non-superpowered attacks.

The game is primarily set in the two main DC cities, Metropolis and Gotham. Both cities are bound to make DC fans happy. Metropolis is bright, sunny and futuristic with gleaming skyscrapers and chirping birds. Gotham, on the other hand, is dark and brooding, misty and gothic. Many of the locations one would expect to find make an appearance. Centennial park with it's giant memorial from the death of Superman (no worries, he got better), Arkham Asylum, Lexcorp Tower, S.T.A.R. Labs, Waynetech, etc. Gotham even features Crime Alley, a fresh bouquet of red roses lying under a flickering streetlight behind a theater. Heroes can retreat from the city to The Watchtower, the Justice League's massive space-station. Villains have the Hall of Doom in its underwater hiding place. The game world is bursting with obscure references for DC fans to pick up on, from the obvious major and minor characters standing around to the more obscure such as "Nora's Frozen Treats' in Gotham.

In addition to the cities the Alert missions (small group "dungeons" and high level raids) are set in other DC hotspots such as Smallville, Area 51, Oolong Island and even the Moon. The size of the DC Universe allows plenty of opportunity for locales, the initial game having barely scratched the surface of potential locations.

The level cap is 30 and is reachable in about 30 hours of play. The design concept is that the 1-30 play represents your character's "heroic journey" from a schlub with brand new powers to a full fledged hero/villain. Once you hit 30 you're part of the big leagues. Leveling is a pretty speedy process, designed to allow casual players the chance to get to the end game with relative ease.

The graphics are sleek and pretty, as one might expect. Animations are fluid and the draw-distance is generally pretty impressive. There is an impressive array of voice talent portraying the major characters, with Mark Hamill once more stepping in for the Joker, Gina Torres as Wonder Woman, Wil Wheaton as Robin, James Marsters as Lex Luthor, etc.

Character Creation

Character Creation is possibly the area where DC is going to take the most hits, as it will naturally be compared to its competitors, City of Heroes/Villains and Champions Online. Character Creation is far, far more limited in DC. There are three hard set body types to choose from, a palette of only three colors that can be applied to your entire costume and a much more restricted selection of costume pieces. New costume pieces are gained as loot during game play and can be added to expand your options change your character's look over time. In addition to the monthly subscription fee, DC will also feature microtransactions and it's a sure bet that a lot of these will be more costume pieces.

The design reason behind this has several aspects (apart from microtransaction dollar signs). One is the previously mentioned 'heroic journey'. An example cited was Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins, starting his crimefighting career in a tactical vest and ski mask. Then he progressed from that to the Batsuit. If you look at the many, many variations of Batman's look over his history it plays right in to the concept of your character starting with a 'simple' version of how they will come to look by the time they've hit their full stride.

The other aspect is that in CoH/V and CO, once you've designed your character, that's pretty much it. Sure you can futz around with your costume later but you're still working with what you had at initial creation. In a game such as WoW, however, you have next to zero options at creation and part of the fun of character advancement is gaining new, cooler looking gear until, by top level, you look like a spiky armor plated death machine. DC's system aims for this same appeal, allowing you to make your character's look better and better as you progress in power.

Whether you find those design ideas compatible with what you want from a superhero game is entirely up to you. Even with the loot gained, a level 30 character has far fewer options for their look than DC's competitors have at initial creation. Will you be able to make a cool and unique looking character with DC's character creator? Yes. Will your character look cooler when they hit 30 with the new gear you've obtained? Yes. Will your character look exactly how you want them too? Probably not. Can you live with that? Up to you.

Interface

The User Interface is another place that DCUO receives some criticism, at least from the PC crowd. Much of this is from dealing with the limited options presented by launching on the PS3. Even when scaled all the way down, interface screens take up pretty much all screen real estate when open and shut down other aspects of the interface. Want to tell your group the stats on that rare piece of loot you just got? Well, you open up the inventory and your chat box disappears. No click-drag for you! Discussing what mission to do next? Open your journal and again, your chat box is now gone, forcing you to constantly flip back and forth to have any meaningful communication. This is alleviated somewhat by the built in voice chat but if you're not using that, for whatever reason, it gets pretty tedious. Additionally, UI elements can not be moved around, the mini-map can't be zoomed in or out and my expectation is that Interface mods are unlikely to be allowed.

Content

And here comes hit number three. Content is king. The content that DCUO has is quite good. Mission arcs are generally comprised of four or five open-world missions, culminating in an instance that will have you teaming up with one of the major characters to go toe to toe with another major character. These instances are where the game shines. Rather than an instance Boss simply having umpteen million hit points requiring you to stand there and bash on him for half an hour while popping heals as necessary, all of the instance bosses are done "raid style", causing you to have to deal with scripted events and survive various stages of the fight. In a villain fight against Supergirl, for instance, I had to distract her from using consoles to free metahuman experiment subjects by setting their stasis tubes on fire. Once she hurried to their rescue with her frost breath I proceeded to jump in and destroy the console to prevent her from freeing them. If I failed to do this in time and allowed her to free metahumans then I had them to contend with as I continued trying to thwart her efforts.

The catch is that while the content is engaging and fun there isn't nearly enough of it. There's plenty to get you from 1-30 but once you've hit 30 with a character then you've seen the majority of the leveling content the game has to offer. There's even a fair amount of direct crossover, the same instances and missions being recycled for both sides. As a hero you do a series of quests against venom addicted thugs at Batman's behest, culminating in teaming up with Nightwing to take down Bane. As a villain, you'll get to do the exact same quests for The Joker, teaming up against Bane with Killer Croc at the end. Sure, the reasons are slightly different and, as a hero you might be defending the police against the street trash whereas a villain will be defending the street trash against the police but the mission play is fundamentally identical. Here, the speed with which you can reach 30 becomes a detriment as starting a new character will have you doing the same stuff pretty quickly after you did it the first time.

Once you hit level 30 the game changes and not necessarily for the better. Apart from the Alerts, 1-30 is entirely soloable. In fact, the game doesn't scale instances for a group so if you do team up then you will absolutely blow through the content. Once you get to 30, the solo content utterly and completely ends. End-gameplay currently consists of aimlessly cruising the cities, looking for collectibles while waiting for your instance queue to pop. There is certainly a decent variety of Alerts and Raids to do at level 30 but DC offers no innovation here. You do the missions to gain tokens which you save up to buy a piece of gear that will make you slightly better at doing the same missions over and over to collect more tokens for yet another piece of gear. It's the same formula we've seen in pretty much every other MMO, so, if it works for you, great. If not, however, it simply becomes a giant hamster wheel once you've done all of the end game content 2 or 3 times. SOE promises monthly updates and larger quarterly updates as well as the inevitable paid expansions. Will these content updates primarily be microtransaction gear or will there be a continual stream of new content added both for leveling and end-game? We'll see.

PvP

I haven't much to say here, as I've done very little of it. At the current stage of Beta, no one ever seems to sign up for the PvP arenas on the PvE server and the PvP server offers no reward for fighting other players other than the fun of doing so. At the moment PvP is faction based but entirely open other than that. My PvP server experience got old fairly quickly as there were a few level 30s lurking near the newbie mission areas, apparently for the sole purpose of preventing them from completing any of the missions. I did get to experience the fun of blasting one of them with a stun effect about 75 stories in the air and watching him fall into the distance but the novelty of respawning over and over paled rapidly and back to the PvE server I went.

In Conclusion...

Is the game fun? Yes, very much so. Combat is fast and furious, the missions are fun, the instances are interesting and the travel powers make moving around the city plenty entertaining. However, the console constraints are going to inevitably annoy the PC players, the content ultimately gets repetitive and if you're not interested in grouping at level 30 your only other option is to start another character to play through the same stuff all over again. It's fun interacting with and fighting against the DC characters as opposed to the CoH/V, CO generic hero/villain you've never heard of before. As it is, the game is definitely worth your initial purchase and the month of playtime that comes with it. What SOE has to offer with monthly updates is going to be the deciding factor in whether it's actually worth subscribing for a second or third month.

This is all, of course, impressions of the Beta and certainly some of these issues may be addressed before launch. There was a dev post today in the beta forums announcing that end-game solo content is on the way. Initially it's going to, sadly, take the form of repeating lower level content but the implication was that there would be fresh stuff added after launch. Additionally, there's a large patch coming today and, while the patch notes are not yet posted, it was mentioned that it contains a lot of UI improvements.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 02:39:15 PM by Gryndyl » Logged

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Gryndyl
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 08:57:31 PM »

Some screenies for ya...



Grim Monk Hanging out with Zatanna


The Crimson Queen and Nightwing take down Bane


And to give an idea of character look evolving over time with the costume loot drops, here's Crimson Queen at a much higher level


Nephilim surveying Gotham


Nyarlathotep amidst his usual crawling chaos.
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 11:58:14 PM »

I guess I've been in the beta well over a month and hardly touched it. the reason? Controls. You can remap most stuff but as soon as you enter a new zone or any load then they are reset to the horrible default binds. So no matter how much time or work it takes to reset the controls you have to do it about every 3 min or so it seems. I just didn't play because I could not. maybe it's fixed now?
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2010, 12:19:08 AM »

Quote from: Daehawk on December 07, 2010, 11:58:14 PM

I guess I've been in the beta well over a month and hardly touched it. the reason? Controls. You can remap most stuff but as soon as you enter a new zone or any load then they are reset to the horrible default binds. So no matter how much time or work it takes to reset the controls you have to do it about every 3 min or so it seems. I just didn't play because I could not. maybe it's fixed now?

I've been happy with the default controls so I'm not sure if there's still an issue of them resetting. Major patch today so it might be one of the things that's been fixed. I haven't seen the patch notes yet.
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2010, 12:46:45 AM »

Nice writeup Gryndyl! thumbsup
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 12:47:44 AM »



that's a pretty cool costume.
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 01:36:04 AM »

parts of the game look great, but I would have to suggest that it be avoided.  Currently there just isn't enough game there either in content or options.  It's also very odd that a DC Universe based game and you can't make a super strong character that doesn't shoot fire or ice.  You also can't make a Batman like guy, or a Green Lantern like guy, or Wonder Woman or... it goes on and on.  The powerset choices are way too limited both in what's left out and what you are forced to take.  It feels like an alpha with regard to the choices in.  Plenty of weapon choices, but only 6 powersets is odd.
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 01:55:40 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on December 08, 2010, 01:36:04 AM

parts of the game look great, but I would have to suggest that it be avoided.  Currently there just isn't enough game there either in content or options.  It's also very odd that a DC Universe based game and you can't make a super strong character that doesn't shoot fire or ice.  You also can't make a Batman like guy, or a Green Lantern like guy, or Wonder Woman or... it goes on and on.  The powerset choices are way too limited both in what's left out and what you are forced to take.  It feels like an alpha with regard to the choices in.  Plenty of weapon choices, but only 6 powersets is odd.

I agree to an extent but with some caveats. Any character can take super strength as an iconic power, though you have to wait until level 22.

Yes, tank characters are fire or ice based but you're not obligated to use those powers and can spec out of them later and fill your bar with iconic powers. If you want a Superman-like character you go with brawling and flight, take the iconic powers of cold breath and heat vision at level 10 and then at level 22 you add super strength. Voila! Yeah, you'll be throwing ice around up until then but ultimately you can come pretty close.

There is no Green Lantern-like powerset, true. The rumor is that the Lanterns will be the first big expansion but as far as I know that's entirely forum speculation other than that the devs have said that light powers will be added at some point after launch.

For Wonder Woman, again you have brawling, flight and super strength with the iconic powers Amazonian bracelets and magic lariat. Yes, you'll also have additional magic powers that she doesn't but you can spec out of them easily enough.

As far as Batman goes, not quite sure where you're coming from on that one. Martial Arts/Gadgets/Acrobatics with Batarangs as an iconic. Only thing missing is the batmobile.

Each of the 6 powersets has two completely developed and distinctly different trees making it more akin to 12 power sets, of which you have two related ones available for your character. That plus each movement power has a fully developed tree of its own as does each weapon type. All of the weapon types open up at higher levels so you can cross into other trees should you want to make a martial arts/archer hybrid, for example. In addition to all of that there are the iconic powers, an active iconic power set at 10 and an inate one at 22.

Four different power/skill trees on your character, add in the first iconic set at level 10 and the second at 22 plus an option to expand into other weapon trees at makes for quite a bit of customization for your character.
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2010, 02:10:35 AM »

If you want to play as a superman like guy, you basically have to either gimp yourself for the first 2/3 or play a completely different char until then.  The fun of the game should be the development of the character and you should be able to play who you want from the start.
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2010, 03:57:24 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on December 08, 2010, 02:10:35 AM

If you want to play as a superman like guy, you basically have to either gimp yourself for the first 2/3 or play a completely different char until then.  The fun of the game should be the development of the character and you should be able to play who you want from the start.

This is what I'm most stunned at.  They have to realize they are going to get hammered hard for this from both console & pc players alike.  When you create your character you can choose 'inspired by' and pick superman.  Unfortunately from 1-10 you will be NOTHING like superman, even in his early years.  From 10-22 you'll be a little closer, it isn't until you hit 22 that you can actually create your superman clone.  

You can create a Batman clone pretty easily, even Green Arrow (well, from Longbow Hunters at least - no trick arrows here), however, there are a ton of iconic characters that you can't even remotely emulate until later game. Unfortunately if you do, you gimp yourself for your role (if you load up on iconics you'll essentially be DPS focused as the tank, controller, and healing roles rely on the various powersets to function).

That said, is the game worth trying out?  YES.  Is it good enough to pay for a monthly subscription? Probably not on any significant ongoing basis (say over 3 months).

One good thing is they are focusing on polishing what is in game rather than revamping or recreating things last minute, so what there is now should be pretty fantastic at release.  The problem is that some of the things missing are required in the DC universe (i.e. can't create a strongman superhero).  SOE also has the tendency to say: we can't do that, the the PS3 won't support it and not try to do anything to give PC users options to maximize their platform. I understand this when this might create unfair advantages, however with the interface? Really?  

Ultimately I think that SOE will get so seriously lambasted for this game that the good things (some of which are QUITE good) will get utterly ignored for the things they did poorly or completely missed.  I predict a small but loyal core following plus some level of padding of revolving players - enough to keep the game alive indefinately but not enough for the game to every be considered a top MMORPG (or MMOAG).  

Oh, and one last peeve:  In order to complete combos you have to use a combination of left & right button clicks (aka mortal combat). The fanboy excuse is "all action games are like this so live with it".  No efforts have been made to come up with something innovative here, and combat pretty much revolves around left clicking a bunch of times quickly, once or twice left clicking &  holding, and right click a few times with holds & voila! you've completed the super somersault ax murderer head cleave of DOOM!.   This game is a carpel tunnel inducing nightmare.  If you have issues there, avoid this game, you won't be able to play it long.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 04:54:20 AM by Wargus » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2010, 08:09:10 AM »

Heres my 2 characters.


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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2010, 08:09:23 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on December 08, 2010, 02:10:35 AM

If you want to play as a superman like guy, you basically have to either gimp yourself for the first 2/3 or play a completely different char until then.  The fun of the game should be the development of the character and you should be able to play who you want from the start.

so, it's like Smallville?
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 08:43:46 PM »

fwiw, a bud at another board said he enjoyed the basic gameplay in beta when using a gamepad, but he didn't find it much fun to play with mouse/keys.
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 08:51:03 PM »

Yeah, using a controller is how the game is "meant" to be played. For me, however, using a controller to control a camera in a 3D world is like trying to draw with an etch-a-sketch and I've been perfectly happy with mouse and keyboard.
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2010, 09:08:29 PM »

the camera control was so abysmal with a gamepad that I quickly went back to the keyboard mouse despite the click combo issues I had with it.
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2010, 10:08:04 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 08, 2010, 08:09:23 AM

Quote from: Harkonis on December 08, 2010, 02:10:35 AM

If you want to play as a superman like guy, you basically have to either gimp yourself for the first 2/3 or play a completely different char until then.  The fun of the game should be the development of the character and you should be able to play who you want from the start.

so, it's like Smallville?

lol!  nice one CK!

- - -

I think I said this in the other thread, but honestly this game looks like another Star Trek Online to me.  Not necessarily in the sense of polish or gameplay, but in the sense that I think it would have made for a much better single or small party based game.  Turning it into an MMO seems forced to me, and takes away from what might have been an incredibly focused story-based game where interaction with the core DC characters (with all the great voice acting) and advancing the engaging storyline was the meat of the game (in other words more like the Marvel Ultimate Alliance series).  That game might still be in there, but it's watered down with traditional CoX/CO-style missions, which at this point really do nothing for me.  I loved the opening cinematic and the way the tutorial sequence played out, but as soon as it got to the basic missions I lost any desire to play. 

I'm tempted to cancel my pre-order but I'm also tempted to give it the one month to see how many of the cool voice actors I can interact with.
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2010, 07:00:30 AM »

I have an extra PS3 Beta key (extra due to my not having a PS3). So, PM me if ya want it biggrin

Edit: Gone.
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 05:50:25 PM »

Quote from: Gryndyl and Harkonis on December 09, 2010, 09:08:29 PM

Yeah, using a controller is how the game is "meant" to be played. For me, however, using a controller to control a camera in a 3D world is like trying to draw with an etch-a-sketch and I've been perfectly happy with mouse and keyboard.

the camera control was so abysmal with a gamepad that I quickly went back to the keyboard mouse despite the click combo issues I had with it.
You two sound like cranky old PC gamers. I like that.  icon_lol
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2010, 01:00:44 AM »

Quote from: Gryndyl on December 10, 2010, 07:00:30 AM

I have an extra PS3 Beta key (extra due to my not having a PS3). So, PM me if ya want it biggrin

Edit: Gone.

And much thanks!  Will give it whirl tonight!
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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2010, 01:19:00 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on December 10, 2010, 05:50:25 PM

You two sound like cranky old PC gamers. I like that.  icon_lol

Yep! Damn kids and their controllermabobbies screwing up my PC games  mad

Quote from: morlac on December 11, 2010, 01:00:44 AM

Quote from: Gryndyl on December 10, 2010, 07:00:30 AM

I have an extra PS3 Beta key (extra due to my not having a PS3). So, PM me if ya want it biggrin

Edit: Gone.

And much thanks!  Will give it whirl tonight!


 thumbsup
Have fun!
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2010, 04:28:58 AM »

Quote from: Wargus on December 08, 2010, 03:57:24 AM

Quote from: Harkonis on December 08, 2010, 02:10:35 AM

If you want to play as a superman like guy, you basically have to either gimp yourself for the first 2/3 or play a completely different char until then.  The fun of the game should be the development of the character and you should be able to play who you want from the start.

This is what I'm most stunned at.  They have to realize they are going to get hammered hard for this from both console & pc players alike.  When you create your character you can choose 'inspired by' and pick superman.  Unfortunately from 1-10 you will be NOTHING like superman, even in his early years.  From 10-22 you'll be a little closer, it isn't until you hit 22 that you can actually create your superman clone.  

Ehh, well, this has always been a "problem" with superhero games in general.  Superman, besides kryptonite, is essentially invincible.  Even when reading the comics or watching the cartoons, you always kind of wondered what the point of Superman getting in a fist fight really was.  Why does he even feel punches, etc.? So, to make any MMORPG game out of it, I don't really think you can have people running around as Superman.  You need to be more minor Superheroes at the end of the day.  I'll be interested to see how strong the late game characters can get though.
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« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2010, 04:34:32 AM »

End game characters seem comparable in power to the "B League"; the likes of Green Arrow, Huntress, Catwoman, Nightwing, etc.

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« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2010, 03:40:40 PM »

fired up the beta last night around 3am and next thing I know it's close to 6am.  I created a toon inspried by Superman, and have to say I'm enjoying the flight power.  it's not too slow, and if you do a sudden dive you get a speed boost.  I was kind of depressed by the customization options, it appears to be a lot of them but in reality most of them are almost the same.  I saw an option in the UI menu to turn off the UI while taking screenshots, but didn't see a key defined for it.

I'm also digging the Diablo like combat, I got a 25 hit streak against a level 8 baddie that I defeated while I was at 5, but then I got cocky and took on another which had a bit more power to it's attacks.
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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2010, 05:50:07 PM »

I don't think there's a key to toggle the UI on and off during screenshots. If you have it selected in the options it just automatically removes it in screenshots.
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2010, 05:59:20 PM »

Quote from: Gryndyl on December 11, 2010, 05:50:07 PM

I don't think there's a key to toggle the UI on and off during screenshots. If you have it selected in the options it just automatically removes it in screenshots.

sorry, I wasn't clear; I meant a key for taking screenshots, not toggling the UI.
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2010, 07:13:40 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 11, 2010, 05:59:20 PM

Quote from: Gryndyl on December 11, 2010, 05:50:07 PM

I don't think there's a key to toggle the UI on and off during screenshots. If you have it selected in the options it just automatically removes it in screenshots.

sorry, I wasn't clear; I meant a key for taking screenshots, not toggling the UI.

Ah. F9 takes screenshots.
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« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2010, 07:18:56 PM »

Thanks!  icon_biggrinthumbsup
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2010, 07:38:29 PM »

I got to try this for a few hours over the weekend. I liked it enough that I had to stop playing. I don't want to get it all figured out and bored with it prior to release like I did with Champions.

What really stood out to me are the power sets and development choices. It looks like it could take a lot of effort to plan out the perfect character. The combination of button combos and normal hot-bar powers adds a nice level of complexity. I not only need to find powers that mechanically compliment each other, but I also have to find button combos that I can live with and flow together nicely. I like the mechanics of the powers overall, especially the group support skills.

The combat felt a little spammy at first, but after I got a few powers it started to get much more engaging. It looks like there is more of an emphasis on gear progression than there was in Champions.

Overall, It was enough that I'll be pre-ordering a couple copies for my wife and I.
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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2010, 08:48:10 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on December 10, 2010, 05:50:25 PM

Quote from: Gryndyl and Harkonis on December 09, 2010, 09:08:29 PM

Yeah, using a controller is how the game is "meant" to be played. For me, however, using a controller to control a camera in a 3D world is like trying to draw with an etch-a-sketch and I've been perfectly happy with mouse and keyboard.

the camera control was so abysmal with a gamepad that I quickly went back to the keyboard mouse despite the click combo issues I had with it.
You two sound like cranky old PC gamers. I like that.  icon_lol

I spend far more hours playing on the console than the PC.  If something doesn't work, it doesn't work.
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« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2010, 04:38:30 AM »

I am settling into this game well.  I have a few builds I like (so far I like fire, mental, and sorcery, with staff or one handed).  There are several weapons styles I haven't tried in depth (and I haven't tried dual wield at all).

I have 3 characters I play regularly: a sorcery/single handed hero at 27th level, a mental/staff at 14, and a fire/brawling at 14ish.  Brawling is fun, but it is very hard to switch from staff or single handed to it: they are both very fast and it isn't.  I'm always messing up the timing on combos with it because of that. 

Anyway, place this game firmly in the "I REALLY LIKE IT" category (for now- it is beta after all).
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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2010, 06:41:49 PM »

Quote from: Wargus on December 14, 2010, 04:38:30 AM

Anyway, place this game firmly in the "I REALLY LIKE IT" category (for now- it is beta after all).
Yeah, i remember that's what you thought about STO early this year. I wish we had a smiley that expressed "skepticism." You'll have to settle for a... smirk

It sounds reasonably promising, and I do hope to give it a spin some day.  icon_smile
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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2010, 07:18:05 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on December 17, 2010, 06:41:49 PM

Quote from: Wargus on December 14, 2010, 04:38:30 AM

Anyway, place this game firmly in the "I REALLY LIKE IT" category (for now- it is beta after all).
Yeah, i remember that's what you thought about STO early this year. I wish we had a smiley that expressed "skepticism." You'll have to settle for a... smirk

It sounds reasonably promising, and I do hope to give it a spin some day.  icon_smile

heh, I'm glad someone else said it.  It's what I was thinking.  This game is 'good' in the same way STO was 'good' and Champions was 'good'.
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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2010, 07:18:53 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on December 17, 2010, 06:41:49 PM

Quote from: Wargus on December 14, 2010, 04:38:30 AM

Anyway, place this game firmly in the "I REALLY LIKE IT" category (for now- it is beta after all).
Yeah, i remember that's what you thought about STO early this year. I wish we had a smiley that expressed "skepticism." You'll have to settle for a... smirk

It sounds reasonably promising, and I do hope to give it a spin some day.  icon_smile

Wargus and I are roommates, so think of us as the Siskel and Ebert of MMO's biggrin I gave STO a thumbs down. Both giving thumbs up to DC. It's far from perfect and rather shallow but you'll definitely get your money's worth out of it during your initial free month. As it is, however, I don't see at worth subscribing to unless their future beta updates and monthly content updates add a significant amount. Maybe a year in it will be worth a subscription.
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« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2010, 06:00:32 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on December 17, 2010, 06:41:49 PM

Quote from: Wargus on December 14, 2010, 04:38:30 AM

Anyway, place this game firmly in the "I REALLY LIKE IT" category (for now- it is beta after all).
Yeah, i remember that's what you thought about STO early this year. I wish we had a smiley that expressed "skepticism." You'll have to settle for a... smirk

It sounds reasonably promising, and I do hope to give it a spin some day.  icon_smile

I don't think I ever said a lifetime sub was good to STO...

And it wouldn't be good here either.  This game is in MUCH better shape than STO, that said, it needs a lot more content.   I'm having a lot of fun however I agree with Gryndyl - at this point I wouldn't pay a monthly sub, however you will get your purchase price out of it in fun.
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« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2010, 12:43:38 PM »

So, isn't 'I'd buy the game but not actually subscribe to it' considered a failure in the MMO world? I sure feel it is. Or at the very least should set off a lot of red flags as far as actually 'why the heck am I buying this in the first place' goes.
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« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2010, 04:13:30 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 18, 2010, 12:43:38 PM

So, isn't 'I'd buy the game but not actually subscribe to it' considered a failure in the MMO world?

Sure.

Quote
Or at the very least should set off a lot of red flags as far as actually 'why the heck am I buying this in the first place' goes.

Because you'll get your money's worth of entertainment out of it. Think of it along the lines of a single player game purchase. If you bought a superhero action game for $50, how many hours of play make it worth it? DC will take you about 30 hours of play to get one character to 30 and there's at least another 30 hours of content with other origins and with end game play. That's more game time than I get from most games and to me that says it's worth the buy.
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2010, 06:12:22 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on December 18, 2010, 12:43:38 PM

So, isn't 'I'd buy the game but not actually subscribe to it' considered a failure in the MMO world? I sure feel it is. Or at the very least should set off a lot of red flags as far as actually 'why the heck am I buying this in the first place' goes.

Yes it is. The problem here isn't quality: the game seems to be well designed, there are a few issues but most are obviously related to them tweaking things in beta.  Content, as in most new releases, is sparse.  Not as bad as in CO or STO, however it will limit replayability.  The big problem is design choices I think.  They've chosen to leave things out in order to polish what they have, however, some of the choices on what is in and what is out are mind boggling. For example, the whole "can't create a superman/Wonder Woman" type of character until you level up to 22, and then (in doing so) you gimp yourself for your class role by essentially limiting yourself to only a DPS function (what do you mean Superman can't tank?).

Also, they've made some design choices to cater to the PS3 and console crowd that I think will just anoy PC players.  The interface is still horrible, they threw out years of good ideas to make this one as bad as it is.

I haven't done any end game content, however have done a few high level alerts that were difficult.  The interface actively opposed us in our efforts to organize & complete the Alert (which we didn't). Unless you get the voice chat to work (most people can, for some reason Gryndle & I can't) you are screwed because the chat interface is just shy of unusable to me.   You can't set up separate chat windows (well you can, but they are tabbed, and you can't pull the tabs out to new windows), you can't tweak the filters for the chat windows anymore (I think this is being worked on). What you are left with is one window where everything, even NPC text, is dumped.  This means you miss a LOT of what is being said around you.    If you are in the open world as opposed to an instance its even worse because all of the people talking (using shouts because they are the most reliable form of group communication).

So, yes I'm having fun, but unless they announce serious changes I don't see this lasting.  It certainly won't last beyond the next MMO release for any large crowd.  They may keep the PS3 users since this is a new realm of gaming to them, but PC users other than serious fans of DC will leave at the next best opportunity.

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« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2010, 12:28:16 AM »

Quote from: Gryndyl on December 18, 2010, 04:13:30 PM


Quote
Or at the very least should set off a lot of red flags as far as actually 'why the heck am I buying this in the first place' goes.

Because you'll get your money's worth of entertainment out of it. Think of it along the lines of a single player game purchase. If you bought a superhero action game for $50, how many hours of play make it worth it? DC will take you about 30 hours of play to get one character to 30 and there's at least another 30 hours of content with other origins and with end game play. That's more game time than I get from most games and to me that says it's worth the buy.

Provided you play all of those 60 hours during the free month.  Then of course you can't replay it later like normal games unless you pay at least $15.  Just not sure you can compare it like you did above.  It might be true for hardcore players but anyone remotely casual is not going to go through 60 hours worth of content in 30 days.  That being said I find the game fun but couldn't imagine paying a monthly fee to keep playing it.  Now If I only paid $30 for the game I could certainly see spending another $30 for 2 months worth of subs.
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« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2010, 01:29:02 AM »

i just entered the code for this into my PS3..then i looked about on the PS3 forums about the game,see how people were liking it

 crybaby crybaby crybaby :crybaby:15gig!!!!...my cable company are gonna cut my balls off!!!


although,has to be said ...its worth it to stare at Wonder Woman's Ass on the loading screen paranoid

so,question(most probably first of many)...do you need a headset for this? as i don't have one,i was just gonna go all FF11 on its ass and just use my pad and USB keyboard,but then it occurred to me,maybe you need the headset as FF11 was a few years back for me now
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« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2010, 03:44:42 AM »

behold Dark Hat!

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