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Author Topic: AoC update 9th of june (updated with mount info+stealth patch notes)  (Read 6408 times)
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2008, 06:29:19 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 10, 2008, 06:16:46 PM

The answer is quite simple. Don't buy MMOs until several months after launch. The reason these companies get away with it is because people continue to buy unfinished products. I'm not excluding myself from this; I'm 100% guilty as charged.

True enough, and I know I made a mistake.

But an alternative answer COULD be that developers attempt to promise less or deliver upon the majority of promises.

I'm not so unrealistic that I expect the perfect game upon launch, and I can deal with broken features, bugs, and even omitted content. But there is a line that doesn't HAVE to be crossed by developers.

Sure, even the mammoth WoW had lots of issues and didn't include stuff like meaningful PvP until later. I'm not entirely sure how much they actually promised for launch, but - at least to me - it never EVER felt unfinished or downright broken. WoW was a complete game at launch, and you could have a great and wholesome experience for MONTHS just with the release version. That is, if the servers were actually running - but I don't blame Blizzard for that - as they'd made every sensible precaution in terms of popularity. They effectively doubled server capacity based on the optimistic maximum of double the most popular MMO ever capacity. I mean, what can you do - and they had no experience with MMOs at that point.

AoC is an entirely different matter.

I don't know how much work they've done that they haven't included for one reason or another, and we might get lucky and get most holes filled within a few months - but to me that still doesn't excuse such a shell-like release. It's not exactly strange that they still have closed beta NDA in place, and that alone should have kept me back.

But ok - I think after Hellgate and now AoC, I might actually have learned not to be impatient.
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StriderGG
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« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2008, 08:09:10 PM »

Quote
But an alternative answer COULD be that developers attempt to promise less or deliver upon the majority of promises.

The same applies to politicians, lawyers, doctors, nutricians, construction workers and my boss. smile

That'd be great of course, but come on, let's be realistic and admit that it will never happen.

Quote
Sure, even the mammoth WoW had lots of issues and didn't include stuff like meaningful PvP until later. I'm not entirely sure how much they actually promised for launch, but - at least to me - it never EVER felt unfinished or downright broken. WoW was a complete game at launch, and you could have a great and wholesome experience for MONTHS just with the release version. That is, if the servers were actually running - but I don't blame Blizzard for that - as they'd made every sensible precaution in terms of popularity.

I wonder why so many people like to wear pink glasses when it comes to discussing WoW's past.

No one seem to remember hero classes that were promised for release, then patch, then expansion, then scratched completely, then 1 of them promised for 2nd expansion.

No one remembers completely void Desolace, Silithus or Eastern Plaguelands (or that swampy zone east of the Barrens, always forget its name) for months after release (I leveled my warlock to lvl 60 before Plaguelands and Silithus were re-done).

No one remembers loot lag that was going on for weeks on and off and sometimes made playing the game practically impossible.

... some of the servers being down for days with people petitioning to transfer their chars to other servers.

... world PvP being so screwed up, the game would turn into slideshow if more than 20 people are around.

... battlegrounds promised at release, but delivered some months later.

...lags, disconnects and subsequently introduced queues that forced people to wait for close to an hour before allowing them in.

...no end game at all for months, except for pretty buggy Molten Core and endless runs in L/U BRS. And their first attempt to create end-game months later by introducing a horrendous rep grind in Silithus and Plaguelands.

... a number of low-, mid- and high-level instances that were introduced only months after release.

... some pretty broken classes (like warlock) that were fixed only a year after release. No pet skills for hunters for a long time (also a promised release feature)

WoW did have its share of problems. It was still (mostly) fun, but it was notorious for its slow coming updates. Wow back then was a totally different game in every single aspect and one also could call it "a shell".

I guess my point is - all MMOs release incomplete and buggy and WoW is not an exception.

[edit] Forgot to mention servers constantly going down - remember half of the guild "going offline" because the other continent's server  or the instance server going down?

And IIRC some classes did not have talents at launch (hunters?).
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 08:29:40 PM by StriderGG » Logged
StriderGG
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« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2008, 08:17:25 PM »

I forgot to make my man point. smile

There is NO WAY anyone could play and enjoy WoW FOR MONTHS in the state it was 3 weeks after release.
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rittchard
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« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2008, 08:19:05 PM »

Quote from: StriderGG on June 10, 2008, 08:09:10 PM

I guess my point is - all MMOs release incomplete and buggy and WoW is not an exception.

Excellent recap, I had forgotten a lot of those!!!
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2008, 08:22:51 PM »

Quote from: StriderGG on June 10, 2008, 08:09:10 PM


The same applies to politicians, lawyers, doctors, nutricians, construction workers and my boss. smile

That'd be great of course, but come on, let's be realistic and admit that it will never happen.


I will never accept that.

The reason you're probably right, though, is that so many others accept it.

Quote
I wonder why so many people like to wear pink glasses when it comes to discussing WoW's past.

I've been hearing that A LOT lately, in defense of the AoC launch state.

Not that you're necessarily defending anything, but I find it an interesting trend.

If you re-read my post, you'll find that I'm in no way suggesting that WoW was without issues. But I can assure you that - whatever else I might be - I'm NOT a rose-colored glasses kind of guy.

We could go back and forth for ages about what issues we've heard about, and what issues we've personally experienced.

All I can say is that I CLEARLY remember WoW giving me the VERY STRONG impression that it was - basically - complete upon launch. On top of that, yes, it had the usual array of launch pains and promised missing features.

But we will never agree that it was as bad as AoC is - and not even close.

Apart from that, yeah, MMOs are big ventures and they suffer a lot of problems that we should probably learn to expect. But I don't think it's right to say that because all of them suffer, it's ok that AoC suffers A LOT more.

I think we all need to become more demanding, as we're basically giving developers a free pass to release mid-stage betas and getting rich in the process. That just ain't right!

---

I just read your last addition.

For your information, I played and enjoyed WoW for 3 years, and I played from launch. That said, it was the european launch smile

But before you start laughing, I should clarify that EU servers suffered the same issues due to popularity, but in my case the biggest issues were login queues and the inability to enter instances at certain times. The much maligned loot-bug is so insignificant overall, that I find the way it's brought up as a big launch issue somewhat amusing.
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rittchard
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« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2008, 08:43:21 PM »

Quote from: DArtagnan on June 10, 2008, 08:22:51 PM

We could go back and forth for ages about what issues we've heard about, and what issues we've personally experienced.

All I can say is that I CLEARLY remember WoW giving me the VERY STRONG impression that it was - basically - complete upon launch. On top of that, yes, it had the usual array of launch pains and promised missing features.

But we will never agree that it was as bad as AoC is - and not even close.

I think memory tends to cloud our overall judgment capability.  This is not a criticism of you, per se, but just a general thought.  It's nearly impossible to remember exactly what you experienced 3 years ago and compare it with what you are experiencing today "in the moment."  Right before reading Striders recount, I also recall WoW giving me the general impression that the launch was fairly sound and complete aside from the missing promised battlegrounds.  But after reading the post, I remember sitting in queues for 15-30 minutes at a time during prime time, sometimes even longer.  I remember a lot of quest and other bugs that I had personally /bugged as a member of alpha and beta that were ignored.  I remember the crazy loot lag and servers being down, instances crashing, etc etc.  And I remember now being very disappointed in the lack of BGs that were promised throughout a year of testing.  Yet all of these negatives were absorbed in the overall experience of my memory, and from just a general sense I've always felt the launch was successful and acceptable, in spite of the problems.

AoC has a lot of issues and missing features I'd like to see, I'll grant that.  But I also can say I've had very few crashes, very little lag issues, plenty of long play sessions without a single problem, many hours of solo play and group action in instances, lots of fun and exciting combat experiences, and not once (aside from the head start) could I not login when I wanted to.  Three years from now, if by some odd fate this game were as successful as WoW or at least has evolved with all features in place, I wouldn't be surprised if I remembered the general launch experience being a very good one.
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StriderGG
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« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2008, 08:51:28 PM »

DArtagnan, I just wanted to point out that I haven't even mentioned AoC in my post, as the post's sole purpose was to remind that WoW did have major issues at launch (and for months afterwards), not to state that AoC's issues somehow forgivable, acceptable, neglible in comparison or anything else.

The fact that we experienced different launches (NA vs. Europe) probably doesn't help this discussion either. smile I don't even know when the Euro launch took place.

The other difference is that you are talking about a VERY STRONG IMPRESSION (which is an emotion and thus cannot be argued about), while I am listing the facts. It's totally possible, that these facts affected my impression did not affect yours, which is totally fine and happens all the time.

And since we are talking about impressions and it's an AOC thread after all, I'll say that my current impression of AoC is very similar to the one I had back then from WoW - seems like there is a fun game brewing there, too bad they didn't take more time to finish the game up.

WoW 2004 was more polished, AoC is more stable. WoW had a better QA, AoC releases updates more often. Both don't have an end game. Both have a lot of re-balancing to do. Both are very fun to play despite the numerous issues.

I hope AoC is as improved, popular and alive in 4 years as WoW now smile
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StriderGG
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« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2008, 08:55:14 PM »

Lol, I swear, I didn't see Rittch's post while I was typing mine smile
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YellowKing
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« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2008, 08:57:19 PM »

I tend to base my MMO "experience" on whether I get my $50 worth. In the case of Vanguard, that was a resounding 'No'. In the case of Age of Conan, it's a resounding 'Yes."

It doesn't mean I think AoC is perfect. As far as launches go, it was a smooth launch server side, but very rough on the bug/unfinished content side, and mild to moderate on the performance side. I thought LOTRO was overall a *much* better launch, so I can kind of see where DArt is coming from in that respect.

Still, in the end it all just comes down to where your priorities lie. For some, siege combat is a big deal. For others, they never really planned on participating anyway. And others, like me, fall somewhere in between. So while we can argue all we want about certain negatives of the launch, we won't make much headway on the relative importance of those negatives since they vary from person to person.
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2008, 09:04:20 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 10, 2008, 08:43:21 PM

Quote from: DArtagnan on June 10, 2008, 08:22:51 PM

We could go back and forth for ages about what issues we've heard about, and what issues we've personally experienced.

All I can say is that I CLEARLY remember WoW giving me the VERY STRONG impression that it was - basically - complete upon launch. On top of that, yes, it had the usual array of launch pains and promised missing features.

But we will never agree that it was as bad as AoC is - and not even close.

I think memory tends to cloud our overall judgment capability.  This is not a criticism of you, per se, but just a general thought.  It's nearly impossible to remember exactly what you experienced 3 years ago and compare it with what you are experiencing today "in the moment."  Right before reading Striders recount, I also recall WoW giving me the general impression that the launch was fairly sound and complete aside from the missing promised battlegrounds.  But after reading the post, I remember sitting in queues for 15-30 minutes at a time during prime time, sometimes even longer.  I remember a lot of quest and other bugs that I had personally /bugged as a member of alpha and beta that were ignored.  I remember the crazy loot lag and servers being down, instances crashing, etc etc.  And I remember now being very disappointed in the lack of BGs that were promised throughout a year of testing.  Yet all of these negatives were absorbed in the overall experience of my memory, and from just a general sense I've always felt the launch was successful and acceptable, in spite of the problems.

AoC has a lot of issues and missing features I'd like to see, I'll grant that.  But I also can say I've had very few crashes, very little lag issues, plenty of long play sessions without a single problem, many hours of solo play and group action in instances, lots of fun and exciting combat experiences, and not once (aside from the head start) could I not login when I wanted to.  Three years from now, if by some odd fate this game were as successful as WoW or at least has evolved with all features in place, I wouldn't be surprised if I remembered the general launch experience being a very good one.

I think it's obvious that whatever the launch state of WoW was in objective reality - we've had VERY different perceptions of that reality.

I'm not claiming my memory is infallible, and naturally the combined and wholesome experience of 3 years of play will take the edge off early pains - but even with that understanding which I'd like to believe I have, we're still talking about different games here.

My personal opinion about this whole WoW versus AoC thing (and you could insert X game at either end of that comparison) is that SOME people TEND to forget that similar things are never the same - no matter the level of similarity.

I'm not sure how I could ever explain that without going into vast detail and bogging down this thread, so I'll just sum it up.

I don't remember WoW being ANYWHERE near the horrible state that AoC is in - no matter how much I think back, and since I have pretty clear memories of my childhood from around ~4 years of age, I think I'm capable of backtracking without too much judgmental compromise.

My problems with AoC are not related to server stability or broken quests. It's about broken integral features, horrible design philosophies, omitted features 100% guarenteed for launch, and a complete lack of itemization across the board.

It's all about personal preference, naturally, but when a game provides no discernable incentive to level - I find that I lose motivation to play. I never had that problem with WoW.

But I suppose there's really no point to all of this.

If you REALLY think these two games are so comparable in terms of launch state issues, then we're most likely too removed from one another in that perception, that we won't ever approach an understanding about this.

So, we simply disagree and the world is a place with more flavor as a result smile
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2008, 09:13:40 PM »

Now that more people are active, I'll just reiterate that I think it's healthy with a dose of disagreement.

I'm glad we're at a place where we can have this debate without it becoming heated in the process smile

In any case, I think I understand by now that you guys have had great fun in AoC - and that's pretty much what should matter the most when judging the thing.

I can't deny that I had fun until I started discovering issues, that are directly connected with my own personal preferences - and as such it's not hard to see where we might differ.

You see, I tend to think of games with the eyes of a wannabe game designer. I'm always analysing things in painful detail - even in the most heated battles.

What I see - which I won't bother you with seeing as how you're enjoying the game - is simply a horribly broken shell of a game AT THIS MOMENT. On the brigher side, I suspect that Funcom has a lot of content up their sleeves and that AoC has generated enough revenue to pretty much guarentee a complete product - perhaps even within too long.

But even if ALL technical issues were 100% resolved, the game - in terms of game design - would be utterly unenjoyable for someone such as myself if they didn't rework quite a chunk of it.

Anyway, I don't think I see any benefit from me detailing my problems and getting even more negative. I'd rather you enjoyed it and I can only hope you never find out what's missing, or that you simply don't care - OR that they manage to fix it up before you start slywink
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Crux
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« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2008, 10:05:54 PM »

Playing it. Loving it. Can't be bothered reading all the bitching about it smile
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« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2008, 10:17:01 PM »

Quote from: Crux on June 10, 2008, 10:05:54 PM

Playing it. Loving it. Can't be bothered reading all the bitching about it smile

Ditto.  Too bad I haven't had too much time to play frown
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« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2008, 10:19:41 PM »

Quote from: Crux on June 10, 2008, 10:05:54 PM

Playing it. Loving it. Can't be bothered reading all the bitching about it smile

or logging into GLB slywink

I cancelled today.  too many bugs, game crashes on me every time I zone with the latest patch when it was fine before.  My class is ineffective against any non-cloth wearer that isn't more than 6 levels lower.  ( got frustrated and jumped a 40 barbarian with my 58 assassin and he got away pfft!)

I see great potential, and I did have fun for the first 40 levels or so, but the sheer quantity of problems finally bogged me down.  With another year the game could be pretty stellar as long as they add a harsher pvp death penalty
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Arkon
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« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2008, 10:34:20 PM »

This is why being a casula gamer in an MMO is great.  I have yet to really see any of the issues people are whining and bitching about.  I don't do PvP which also eliminates alot of the complaints.  I have a low end system, and have yet to experience more than 3 or 4 total crashes, for the most part the game is rock solid. Performance wise I had many more issues with the launches of EQ2, WoW, and Vanguard.
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« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2008, 11:35:20 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on June 10, 2008, 10:34:20 PM

This is why being a casula gamer in an MMO is great.  I have yet to really see any of the issues people are whining and bitching about.  I don't do PvP which also eliminates alot of the complaints.  I have a low end system, and have yet to experience more than 3 or 4 total crashes, for the most part the game is rock solid. Performance wise I had many more issues with the launches of EQ2, WoW, and Vanguard.

At least half the complaints i hear, and all the ones i have personally, are related to PvP.  For PvE, i don't really have any great personal issues and I think with a little work, the game could be a wonderful PvE game...and with more continually added content, of course.

I almost wish i'd rolled up on a PvE server at this point, but not quite, cause i can still roll up better pvp avatars to enjoy that part of the game more.  It's easy to level up new avatars in this game thankfully.

I'm gonna search out a new guild on Cimmeria, i have one in mind already that i'm gonna seek membership in, and hopefully get involved in some of the content available to larger groups/guilds.  I think that's where this game is going to shine in the continually added content department in both PvE (near future and already somewhat) and PvP (longer term).  I don't really see room for small guilds at this point, unless you don't intend to even hit the end game zones and level to 80, on the pvp servers.  The larger guilds utterly control the highest level leveling zone content and can make life impossible for folks not of their guild or alliances.  That situation will still exist to a lesser extent on PvE servers.  So i imagine the wanderers will do well if they stay in the game and don't wander on quickly as often want to do.

I'm gonna stick around in AoC with an undecided guild on Cimmeria, cause i really really like the core game.  I think it's more than a broken shell, but just not completed and fleshed out fully yet.  I think the shell is intact and good and half full, and thats more than i can say for most MMOs even 6 months after release (there are exceptions of course).

I'm gonna snag a second account, hopefully via ebay, and powerlevel myself a couple of alts soon as I hit the 70s:)
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« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2008, 11:38:05 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on June 10, 2008, 10:34:20 PM

This is why being a casula gamer in an MMO is great.  I have yet to really see any of the issues people are whining and bitching about.  I don't do PvP which also eliminates alot of the complaints.  I have a low end system, and have yet to experience more than 3 or 4 total crashes, for the most part the game is rock solid. Performance wise I had many more issues with the launches of EQ2, WoW, and Vanguard.

Agreed. I don't know if I'm necessarily a casual player (I have one char, a 42 barb, after 1 1/2 weeks) and while I've seen a few bugs and had some crashes (only in Old Tarantia though) I've probably had more fun with this game then any other MMO, with the exception of City of Heroes. I'm not focused on PvP right now so that probably helps, as well.
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Harkonis
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« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2008, 12:45:57 AM »

Quote from: godhugh on June 10, 2008, 11:38:05 PM

Quote from: Arkon on June 10, 2008, 10:34:20 PM

This is why being a casula gamer in an MMO is great.  I have yet to really see any of the issues people are whining and bitching about.  I don't do PvP which also eliminates alot of the complaints.  I have a low end system, and have yet to experience more than 3 or 4 total crashes, for the most part the game is rock solid. Performance wise I had many more issues with the launches of EQ2, WoW, and Vanguard.

Agreed. I don't know if I'm necessarily a casual player (I have one char, a 42 barb, after 1 1/2 weeks) and while I've seen a few bugs and had some crashes (only in Old Tarantia though) I've probably had more fun with this game then any other MMO, with the exception of City of Heroes. I'm not focused on PvP right now so that probably helps, as well.

I think a large amount of my complaints are pvp related as well.  For a game that touted how revolutionary their pvp combat would be they didn't really put much thought into the pvp aspect.  I could probably ignore the bugs and shortcomings in pve better because when a mob beats you down in pve it doesn't talk shit slywink
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« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2008, 05:10:51 AM »

Well, since this patch, the game's stability has gone into the crapper for me. I've gotten two 'Out of Memory' crashes in about an hour's worth of playing. It never used to happen for me in the past.
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2008, 05:38:57 AM »

Quote from: Crux on June 10, 2008, 10:05:54 PM

Playing it. Loving it. Can't be bothered reading all the bitching about it smile

As if you didn't read my priceless bitching slywink
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2008, 05:44:57 AM »

For the record, my primary complaints are focused on PvE - not PvP. Though some of them are directly related to both aspects. Since I was in beta, I know they had a system in place for handling PvP experience and levels. I expect that to be in the game relatively soon.

About siege battles, the only problem I have with their absence is the very strong promises that it would DEFINITELY be a launch feature. I could deal with that, but they haven't even recognized that it's not there, they're simply ignoring all their omissions and saying "we'll have more soon."

I'm glad for you casual gamers - though I'm not sure I must be hardcore because I can recognize issues - but if I were you i'd prepare for the possibility that some of us might have a point or two, and that eventually you'd benefit from whatever change might follow the chorus of bitching.

But if you must insist that we're bitching because we're so hardcore and we're rushing through the levels - which is hardly the case for me as I haven't been playing since a week after launch - then so be it.

Anyway, have fun in AoC - and I mean that smile
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« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2008, 06:32:20 AM »

So, not to dereal my own thread further ( slywink), I've stopped playing AoC as well. Not cancelled, just stopped for about a week or so, until they deliver the content they promised. I dont want to "miss out" because I got to higher level than 30, so I'm letting my 25 guardian rest a bit for now.

Also, itemization will come soon, so, I'm waiting for that as well. And also the one thing that might actually get me to play on a FFA server, the prison-thingie...

Dont get me wrong, I actually love the game, I just feel with all the promised content, I'll wait for that before jumping back on.

Meanwhile, I've fallen in love with Vanguard for its depth :-)
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« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2008, 12:03:27 PM »

I found another undocumented fix last night. Before the patch, resources that I did not harvest myself (such as stacks of leather from the guild bank) would not show up in my tradeskill window as usable for crafting. So even though I had 150 leather, I couldn't make any of my leather armor recipes unless I physically gathered the leather myself.

I'm happy to say they fixed that, so now you can use resources purchased or given to you in your quest recipes.
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« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2008, 03:33:15 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 11, 2008, 05:10:51 AM

Well, since this patch, the game's stability has gone into the crapper for me. I've gotten two 'Out of Memory' crashes in about an hour's worth of playing. It never used to happen for me in the past.

yeah, all of a sudden my framerate took a dive and I actually had to lower some of the settings.  A few other Wanderers mentioned the same thing.  I ended up turning off shadows, AA, and grass while lowering the 3D occlusion as a stop gap until I get a chance to play around with it a bit.

Oh, and hopefully they fix the resource node bug quickly.  I missed out on a nice load of copper last night because I got attacked on my first harvest attempt and it was non responsive afterwards.

Still having a blast with PvE thought.  I think I'll take my ranger into the Sanctum tonight to try and solo some of the grey bosses for coin.  my PoM is currently sitting in the wings, waiting to see what content they might update.
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« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2008, 05:55:38 PM »

My stability was OK yesterday, but I definitely too had some serious frame rate drops in certain quest instances. These were the ones in the Noble area that were just taking place inside little house buildings. I just don't know if it's "just me," or if they've always had problems (I mentioned in another thread that I thought maybe the torches and candles were a cause), or if the patch added this problem (I hadn't entered these instances pre-patch so I don't have a comparison basis per se).

At its core, the combat still keeps me enthralled along with lets say the "volume" of the quests. I do have concerns about the lack of any variety in enemy AI. I'm not expecting F.E.A.R. soldiers or something (I know MMOs have limitations), but if enemies ever attempted to get away from me, reposition (wouldn't an archer type reposition instead of stabbing me with a butter knife? icon_razz), or respond to me in a way other than "veer directly towards player and stand in place like a mannequin", combat might be a little more varied and unpredictable. If it's a technical limitation, that's fine, but I'd like to think they could spice that up a bit.

I think LOTORO did a much better job of introducing you to crafting, and getting you interested in it (I've basically ignored it completely in AoC to this point). And I'd like to see more of the Destiny quest stuff (basically there's a few quests at 30 of that nature and then *poof* nothing at all until 50).

Blah blah blah. I'm running off again. Maybe a future update will look at some of this.  icon_smile
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rittchard
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« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2008, 08:55:46 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 11, 2008, 12:45:57 AM

I think a large amount of my complaints are pvp related as well.  For a game that touted how revolutionary their pvp combat would be they didn't really put much thought into the pvp aspect.  I could probably ignore the bugs and shortcomings in pve better because when a mob beats you down in pve it doesn't talk shit slywink

You know, I never got the sense they were touting revolutionary pvp play, unless you meant the mounted combat.  I think a lot of people online were creating a wishful thinking scenario that somehow AoC was going to be the next Shadowbane, simply because they had talked about having cities and sieging.  But every report from closed beta was saying the game was more PvE than PvP, that the PvP servers had no rulesets, that no one had seen borderlands, etc etc.  The open PvP beta showed us what level of PvP was already implemented and ready for release. 

Personally I'm disappointed the sieging aspect did not make it to release, but I'm not surprised/disappointed that the PvP aspect in general was not fully fleshed out.  This game was never intended to be SB 2, though I know a lot of people wanted it to be.
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« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2008, 02:43:31 PM »

Quote
You know, I never got the sense they were touting revolutionary pvp play, unless you meant the mounted combat.  I think a lot of people online were creating a wishful thinking scenario that somehow AoC was going to be the next Shadowbane, simply because they had talked about having cities and sieging.

+1.

As far as I remember, WAR was always positioned as a new PvP oriented game, while AoC as a new PvE oriented one.
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