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Author Topic: AoC Classes thread  (Read 12684 times)
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Harkonis
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« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2008, 09:22:36 PM »

I'll also add that key to levelling ANY melee class is positioning.  Make sure when you get that add that you are hitting both mobs at the same time with each hit and combo.  If the add is a caster/archer then either pull it closer then melee it, or run up to it dragging the other mobs.  If you can get mobs lined up you can take down far more than you might think.  Use your poisons and dots to your advantage too especially when you can't line mobs up properly.  If you unload the tier 3 and tier 2 poison combos on a mob, you may be able to then turn and ignore it because it'll be dead in 3 seconds of both poisons ticking.

I'm at the point now that my poisons ticking actually do about even dps to my actual strikes.
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« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2008, 06:17:37 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on May 28, 2008, 02:40:20 PM

ok, now this is just plain sick

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TVKqX-BRml0

9 chain kill

He spams the insta cast HOT and does AOE damage with each cast
I don't have the game but out of curiosity what class is that?  Seems a little balancing is in order.
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rittchard
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« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2008, 10:15:54 PM »

Quote from: Silky on May 29, 2008, 06:17:37 PM

I don't have the game but out of curiosity what class is that?  Seems a little balancing is in order.

Not 100% sure but I think it's the Tempest of Set (healer/nuker) class.

- - -

Back to the OT, I haven't seen anyone talk about Priest of Mitra yet, so I'll throw in my thoughts (up to lvl 49 and expecting some interesting/significant additions at 50).  I'm specced in Vengeance primarily and the Standard secondary.

Solo: I have never played a healer class in any game that could solo so well.  Generally the advantage to playing a healer class solo is at the very least you have less down time healing up, which is very true in this case.  But the PoM takes it a bit further and adds significant DPS to the mix, with a lot of it being AoE.  With the Vengeance spec, you can further do damage while healing yourself, and even further, there is a feat in the standard line that allows you to regen mana off one of your heals as well.  This allows you to play similar to what was shown in that video, gather aggro from a few mobs and wail on them with AoE damage while simultaneously healing.  You'll be taking a lot of damage as well, but as long as you aren't knocked down, you can mitigate dmg with heals over time (HoTs) fairly well. 

The class comes with 2 HoTs that can be stacked; one of them is very quick to cast, does an initial heal and then a tick every second.  At lvl 63 (I was sidekicked) it was healing for 250 and ticking for 130, which is not too bad.  For reference, solo-wise that initial heal is about 10% your total health.  This one is the bread and butter, as it is the one mentioned previously that can also regen some mana, AND with the vengeance spec do decent AoE DoT at the price of extra mana cost (originally it was doing huge AoE DD, which was clearly not intended and was soon nerfed in the second or third patch).  So if you're an efficiency nut like I am, you can't beat a spell that has AoE and does damage, heals AND gets you some mana back all at once.  The second HoT is slower to cast and less useful, but because it stacks is still nice to have.  Finally there is a "big heal" which as discussed elsewhere grants a nice AoE targetted heal - but at the price of a lingering ONE minute timer before it can be used again on anyone who was affected.  Solo, this is not a big deal.  Most battles you only need to heal once before it's over.  With vengeance spec, the same heal does a nice big burst AoE damage as well. 

For emergencies, Hand of Mitra (HoM) is supposed to mitigate all damage for a short period of time (doesn't always work I think).  There's also a fear and a blind that don't work that great. 

For buffs, which I think extend to the group, you get a health buff, a defense buff and a +damage buff (I think) standard.  From feats I get the buff that makes my HoT do damage.  And you get the traditional healer rez spell which actually has a decent range.

The primary offense is from a Smite nuke, which is slow to cast and does decent damage.  Its biggest redeeming quality is you can spam it (no recast time).  You get a smaller fast cast nuke (Rebuke) on top of that with a longer recast (can be shortened through Feats).  The best offensive spell I have is from Feats - Cleansing Fire (CF).  It does a cone area damage.  Not very good range, but good damage and with points it can DoT after the initial hit.  You also get a big super slow nuke that's really only good against undead.  Finally there is a slow casting PBAoE knockdown which also does good damage.  This can get you out of a lot of trouble and buy you time to heal/regen.  So generally I will pull with either nuke, or try to round up multiple mobs, then knock them down, maybe cast the heal/nuke or both HoTs, then position them in front of me so I can cast CF.  The mini nuke will usually finish them off, or else the DoT plus a few melee whacks.

While this class doesn't have the one-on-one DPS of many others I've grouped with (Barb, Conq, Demon to name a few), it can certainly hold its own and excels at bringing down multiple enemies (lower level preferred but I've done it with equal and higher levelled mobs).  Back in the DAOC days I used to always be jealous of all the AoE action going on, and man, now it's like I'm my own personal AoE group  icon_smile  With the added bonus of virtually never needing to rest (only every so often for mana), there's very little down time so your overall solo playing efficiency is very high.

Grouping: as the supposed primary healing class, the PoM is not your traditional healer.  As noted above, the one big heal you are given is essentially on a one minute timer, meaning you cannot simply choose to stand back and heal when necessary.  Your best bet is to keep it as a semi-emergency type of heal.  Since most battles won't last much more than a minute, particularly in well balanced groups, chances are you are only going to get to cast your big heal once, and only on 1 guy.  One thing I noticed last night was after someone died, if he gets battle rezzed, you can cast the heal on him again which is kind of cool.  So in terms of group healing, if you are the primary or only healer, your safest/strongest move is to shift carefully into the heat of battle and AoE heal with your main HoT.  If it's safe (no aggro), cast the second HoT and back off.  Then watch group health bars and nuke as you like, rinse and repeat.  I noticed also for the first time last night the HoTs can generate significant aggro, so you have to be careful at the higher levels. 

In emergencies, this is where you shine.  If you start taking damage too quickly, hit your HoM (note that with vengeance spec you can get this to insta-cast) and while you are regenerating you can either move away as a tank draws aggro, do your big heal, fear a mob away, or use your AoE repulse to knock everyone down.  The knockdown can be great as long as you don't knock the mobs away from whoever is killing them, or knock them into more mobs to aggro on you.  Because what that does is buy you and the group yet another couple of precious seconds to regen, heal, etc.  I've successfully used these 2 skills in emergency situations in a group a few times now, and it's helped to get the group out of seemingly impossible dilemmas.  Very fun.

So there you have it.  Most fun healing class I've played in any MMORPG, topping even the Guild Wars monk.  The balanced mix between healing and damage, general support and emergency support, makes it almost the perfect class for my personal tastes in these games.  While I'd still prefer some sort of more spammable heal, the tradeoff to give me more of a mix of things to do in group combat is well appreciated.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 10:22:09 PM by rittchard » Logged
Jafisob
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« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2008, 05:06:35 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on May 27, 2008, 03:08:17 PM

Quote
I don't like  that barbs are getting pigeonholed into one spec (2H), since dual wield builds don't get much of cc (stuns and knockbacks), which is very important in PvE and is essential in PvP.

This has me a bit worried with my Conqueror. I specced him dual wield, which has been fine in PvE since he is enough of a tank to not have to rely on stuns and knockbacks. However, I am concerned about end-game PvP, and not having those abilities.

Wondering if I should suck it up and respec now, or just say screw it and see what happens.

My 2 cents.  If you are able to PvE well and are enjoying your character as is wait until the end game to respec. FC may rebalance a ton of skills.  No sense in specing out of duel wield and then having FC rebalance it to be as good or better than 2hd.

I am looking at some skills in my current spec for my DT and realizing they are probably not good PvP skills but I am going to wait.  Depending on procs is most probably less effective than reliable burst damage in PvP.
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« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2008, 05:17:02 PM »

Some of you guys are doing an awesome job on your class impressions.  Those of us still looking in from the cheap seats thank you!

Any more thoughts on the Bear Shaman?  How about the Guardian?
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El-Producto
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« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2008, 05:30:57 PM »

Sorry if I missed it, but I'm picking the game up after work.


I'm interested in the best healing class.  Priest of Mitra sounds like a really fun class to play, I love a good support role.

Is this my best bet for a healer?
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YellowKing
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« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2008, 05:47:01 PM »

I'm going to give my impressions of the Conqueror since I stuck with the dual-wield build, and because with a lot of Conquerors going 2H, it might offer a unique perspective from the other side.

As you know, the Conqueror is an offensive-focused tank. With the ability to wear heavy armor, whether he goes DW or 2H he's got nice offensive power without sacrificing too much defense. The Conqueror's other primary role is as a group buffer. Conquerors have some very powerful auras that bestow benefits on the group they are in, as well as some short-term "formations" that provide bursts of bonuses to adjacent group members.

With my Conqueror, I focused on the Carnage line, which is the dual-wield line. This feat tree focuses more on bleeds (DOTs) and bonus damage versus the 2H tree's focus on stuns and knockbacks.

This is my current build:

http://feats.goonheim.com/conqueror#t0a5b5c1d3e5f5g1j5k1n1t1t2

I haven't pored over forums looking for the "best" build, so this may not be the way to go. But it's served me well so far, and I've just spent points on a gut instinct.

For this build I really wanted to take mobs down fast, and that meant using a lot of bleed damage. Lacerate, Secondary Laceration, Improved Wrath, and Lingering Wrath all add bleeding damage, so I maxed those out.

I maxed Offhand Precision to give my secondary weapon the best possible chance to hit, especially since my Secondary Laceration depends on offhand hits. Rend and Tear is another damage booster to my Bloodline attacks, so I went all the way with it as well.

I stuck a point in Annihilate just to try it out. It gives an increased chance for a crit on your next combo. I haven't seen a particularly large effect from this, so if I had to do it over again I might leave it out and throw the point elsewhere.

War Lord is a must-have. It is a permanent effect that increases the mana and stamina regen rates of the Conqueror and his allies. The great thing about this feat, even solo, is that you are constantly on stamina refresh. It really does make a huge difference both in combat and just sprinting around town. Coupled with a good drink, you are a stamina regen-ing machine.

Bloodlust was a no-brainer - for one feat point you get reduced re-use times for almost all of your combos. Definitely nice to have.

That's as far as I've gone so far. I admit this is a bit of a "selfish" build geared towards solo play. If you are heavy into group, you may want to sacrifice some of your +damage points and put them into Defiance, which adds a heal proc when you're grouping.

The results of this build are just what you'd expect - a very heavily offense-focused tank. With all of my bleeding damage, I can typically hold my own against multiple mobs very well, provided I can get into a position to hit them all with each attack. It's been a terrific solo build - in fact, up until around level 37 or so you could count the number of deaths I'd had on one hand.

I originally wanted to play a dual wield Barbarian, but I've always enjoyed playing tank classes. This is a great compromise between the two. Even though I can't quite put out the same DPS, I'm far less squishy. It's the best of both worlds, and I'm really enjoying it so far.
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Arkon
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« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2008, 07:27:03 PM »

The Bear Shaman starts off very weak.  Around lvl 14 you will be wanting to slit your virtual wrists, but then at 15 it starts to round the bend, the proverbial light begins to shine.  Bear shamans get to wear medium armor (which I have yet to see be that big of a difference) and they use 2h blunt weapons.  They get some pretty hard hitting combos and by lvl 20 can really take a beating and keep on ticking.  They have 2 Heal Over Time spells as well as one standard heal.  Both HoTs also can be enhanced to grant bonus melee damage while under the effects of the heal.  At lvl 34, I feel like my DPS is easily the worst of the 3 priests, but my longevity is tremendous.  As for buffs, I get buffs that raise my max HP, raise my stamina regen, raise my health regen as well as raise my defenses.  Bear Shamans are very much the melee healers of the game.
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nomorals
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« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2008, 02:40:48 AM »

Xotlis are a pain in the ass to get through the low levels.  You have to do far more switching between Day and Night to get past the destiny quests.
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« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2008, 03:45:23 PM »

Quote from: El-Producto on May 30, 2008, 05:30:57 PM

Sorry if I missed it, but I'm picking the game up after work.


I'm interested in the best healing class.  Priest of Mitra sounds like a really fun class to play, I love a good support role.

Is this my best bet for a healer?

I made one last night and managed to level up to 15 in about 5 hours, so I'd say they are a good class to start off with.  there's only be one spot where I got frustrated as it was in an area where almost every enemy came in pairs and I was having issues taking on both so I ended up completing the quest by attrition (ie I killed one of the 2, got killed, rezzed, went back and killed the remaining guy, took on next pair, rinse and repeat) but if I had maybe waited until I was one level higher it wouldn't have been so bad thanks to a wonderful spell called 'repulse'.
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El-Producto
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« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2008, 04:31:59 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on May 31, 2008, 03:45:23 PM

Quote from: El-Producto on May 30, 2008, 05:30:57 PM

Sorry if I missed it, but I'm picking the game up after work.


I'm interested in the best healing class.  Priest of Mitra sounds like a really fun class to play, I love a good support role.

Is this my best bet for a healer?

I made one last night and managed to level up to 15 in about 5 hours, so I'd say they are a good class to start off with.  there's only be one spot where I got frustrated as it was in an area where almost every enemy came in pairs and I was having issues taking on both so I ended up completing the quest by attrition (ie I killed one of the 2, got killed, rezzed, went back and killed the remaining guy, took on next pair, rinse and repeat) but if I had maybe waited until I was one level higher it wouldn't have been so bad thanks to a wonderful spell called 'repulse'.

Well, I've got  my POM up to 10.  It was a struggle, but now with REPULSE.. W00T.  I'm a mob killing machine!
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« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2008, 05:26:25 PM »

El - producto

For my POM, i found the early levels to be hard, especially those 14 and under. I dont think I really came into my own in terms of killing and doing what i can till late teens, early twenties. At my current lvl, 51, I absolutely ROCK in PVE. PVP, I seem to get my ass handed to me, the mantra of attacking the healers still rings true, and we have very few CC abilities to really prevent a concentrated onslaught.

Stick with it, it gets a lot better.
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« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2008, 07:23:20 PM »

Are we playing the same game? Pve wise, and I'm only at lvl 16 ,I rock..even before I got repulse, could take on two mobs at a time without any trouble, now ,3 or 4 I can deal with, my same level.

Smite is a godly spell!
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« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2008, 04:12:34 PM »

Most classes really start coming into their own until after out of tortage.  I've definitely found that level 1-15 is zero indication of how a class is going to stack up once it hits 30.  Classes are still developing too much until level 25ish to really start getting a feel for your strength compared to others.  Some classes hit their strides earlier than others too...and some peak early then fall off later due to poor scaling of their powers and hit points.
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Roguetad
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« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2008, 03:16:36 PM »

I didn't play the beta or have early access, so I wanted to try out a few classes on Tortage to see what I enjoyed the most. 

I played a Barbarian, Assassin, ToS, Bear Shaman and HoX to 20.  Out of those 5, this is how I would rank them:

Easiest to level from 1-20:  Barbarian...HoX...Assassin....ToS................................Bear Shaman

Most buttkicking on the way to 20:  Barbarian followed closely by HoX (after I upgraded the pbaoe to a .3 sec cast)...Assassin...ToS....................................................Bear Shaman

Easiest handling of group mobs to 20:  From 1-15 this goes to the Barbarian, from 15-20 it goes to the HoX.  Again the .3 sec cast pbaoe with a short recast timer does wonders on groups of baddies.  Third place goes to ToS, followed by Assassin, and in very distant last place Bear Shaman. 

Easiest dispatching of single mobs and bosses: Assassin followed by...wait for it...Bear Shaman level 15+. 

Most sense of reward getting a class to level 20:  Bear Shaman.  Man did they make that a right of passage.  At level 15 things really started to pick up, and at level 17 I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.  By level 20 he was kicking butt and walking away from fights with a full health bar.

Most potential in the long run:  ToS...Bear Shaman...HoX

Most fun for my playstyle up to 20:  HoX.  Any class that has skills named Burn to Death and I eat your Heart gets a nod from me.  The Herald is like the ultimate suicide warrior...except they can set baddies on fire and lop their heads off as they themselves get pummeled.  It's all about dishing out the pain before a quick death.  A tip I learned with my herald that is too fun not to share: Cue up a big damage combo, or an aoe combo like pillar of fire just before hitting Hellstep (charge), wait on the last step of the combo, and then charge!  As soon as you arrive, hit the last directional button of the combo, and wham, you show up and dish out instant combo mayhem. 

The Assassin was fun too, but man do they go down quick.  Contrary to what I had read, up to 20 they kick some serious ass, and from my experience, they can decimate groups if the combos are timed and aimed right.  It's a similar style as the HoX where I was trying to dish out damage as fast as possible before dying (health potions help a ton at the start of a fight).  As Hark mentioned earlier, not having a baseline CC ability seems like a glaring hole in the class. 

Third place for fun goes to the Bear Shaman.  I know that sounds counterintuitive considering it was not a fun experience getting him to 15, and maybe I am a glutton for punishment, but it truly is like playing a different class at 20.  The BS at level 20 is a blast to play.  All sorts of utility, direct heal, hots that tie directly into combat, knockdown, aoe stun, and some fun combos. 

I really enjoyed playing a Barbarian to 20 also, both DW and 2 handed.  They are a great class.  Popping out of stealth to wreak havoc on a group of baddies doesn't seem like it would ever get old.  The class reminds of a hardier version of the Shadowblade from daoc.



   
 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 03:19:31 PM by Roguetad » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2008, 03:22:06 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on May 31, 2008, 07:23:20 PM

Are we playing the same game? Pve wise, and I'm only at lvl 16 ,I rock..even before I got repulse, could take on two mobs at a time without any trouble, now ,3 or 4 I can deal with, my same level.

Smite is a godly spell!

heck, before I got repulse I was having issues with two mobs of equal level to me..


I finally got both Stances (sniper and fire) unlocked for my Ranger at level 35, and I can't tell which is better, so I'm thinking I may have made a mistake by spending points to get both instead of maybe putting some stuff in the General tree.  I may end up doing a respec-  does the NPC that lets you respec feats tell you how much it will cost before they do it?  I've noticed it doesn't tell you how much it costs to zero out skills, and last time it didn't cost me anything even though it said it would (but again it didn't list how much).
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« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2008, 03:46:23 PM »

It told me when I respec'ed my PoM at 21.  50 copper I believe it was.  It scales with level and with the amount of times you respec.

So far the PoM is my favorite class.  They have much more survivability than the ToS.  The Guardian is a lot of fun and I hope to put some more time in with that class tonight.
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Razgon
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« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2008, 04:23:25 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 05, 2008, 03:22:06 PM

Quote from: Razgon on May 31, 2008, 07:23:20 PM

Are we playing the same game? Pve wise, and I'm only at lvl 16 ,I rock..even before I got repulse, could take on two mobs at a time without any trouble, now ,3 or 4 I can deal with, my same level.

Smite is a godly spell!

heck, before I got repulse I was having issues with two mobs of equal level to me..


I finally got both Stances (sniper and fire) unlocked for my Ranger at level 35, and I can't tell which is better, so I'm thinking I may have made a mistake by spending points to get both instead of maybe putting some stuff in the General tree.  I may end up doing a respec-  does the NPC that lets you respec feats tell you how much it will cost before they do it?  I've noticed it doesn't tell you how much it costs to zero out skills, and last time it didn't cost me anything even though it said it would (but again it didn't list how much).

the trick to remember is, that your Smite actually is AoE...not much, but a little, so, heal before going into a bigger fight, so that your Heal OVer time is active, hit them, and drive them together, smite, repulse, and most of them are dead now
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« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2008, 04:39:29 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on June 05, 2008, 04:23:25 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 05, 2008, 03:22:06 PM

Quote from: Razgon on May 31, 2008, 07:23:20 PM

Are we playing the same game? Pve wise, and I'm only at lvl 16 ,I rock..even before I got repulse, could take on two mobs at a time without any trouble, now ,3 or 4 I can deal with, my same level.

Smite is a godly spell!

heck, before I got repulse I was having issues with two mobs of equal level to me..


I finally got both Stances (sniper and fire) unlocked for my Ranger at level 35, and I can't tell which is better, so I'm thinking I may have made a mistake by spending points to get both instead of maybe putting some stuff in the General tree.  I may end up doing a respec-  does the NPC that lets you respec feats tell you how much it will cost before they do it?  I've noticed it doesn't tell you how much it costs to zero out skills, and last time it didn't cost me anything even though it said it would (but again it didn't list how much).

the trick to remember is, that your Smite actually is AoE...not much, but a little, so, heal before going into a bigger fight, so that your Heal OVer time is active, hit them, and drive them together, smite, repulse, and most of them are dead now

yeah, i've got it down pat now, but before I got Repulse was my weakest time, even with Smites AoE.  I do like lining up people with Lance of Mitra, since that damages anything in its path (plus eventually nearby enemies too).
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« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2008, 08:29:08 PM »

In full groups in the 50s now, I'm starting to see more of the CC aspect of the PoM.  Keep in mind I did not spec (purposely) to improve CC and I believe there is a big CC Feat at the end of the Divine (?) tree.

Basically you have 4 CC spells to choose from.  Everyone's familiar with Repulse, but this has to be used much more sparingly and carefully in a full group.  You don't want to bounce mobs away too often or your melee folks will get pissed they can't do their combos.  You also don't want to bounce them into aggro range of the invisible sliding mobs around the corner  icon_wink  So I reserve it for more of a "near emergency" situation when I see my tank is losing health too fast, the heal counter is a ways away and the HoTs aren't cutting it.  It's still a great spell to buy some desperately needed respite for the tank(s).  I'm not a big fan of the Fear spell, but still use it occasionally, again more in emergency situations.  I'm starting to use the Blind more on a regular basis.  I have no concrete evidence but it seems like it is effective particularly against mean casters and archers; this could be just wishful thinking on my part though.  And finally the stun, while not lasting long enough and too long to cast, is a decent way to again buy some precious seconds, particularly in cases when you are facing 2 elite casters, or perhaps a 3rd mob adds to the group, the stun is very situational and can buy you just a couple seconds to yell for everyone to move back and get off an extra HoT.
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« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2008, 01:06:50 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 05, 2008, 08:29:08 PM

In full groups in the 50s now, I'm starting to see more of the CC aspect of the PoM.  Keep in mind I did not spec (purposely) to improve CC and I believe there is a big CC Feat at the end of the Divine (?) tree.

Basically you have 4 CC spells to choose from.  Everyone's familiar with Repulse, but this has to be used much more sparingly and carefully in a full group.  You don't want to bounce mobs away too often or your melee folks will get pissed they can't do their combos.  You also don't want to bounce them into aggro range of the invisible sliding mobs around the corner  icon_wink  So I reserve it for more of a "near emergency" situation when I see my tank is losing health too fast, the heal counter is a ways away and the HoTs aren't cutting it.  It's still a great spell to buy some desperately needed respite for the tank(s).  I'm not a big fan of the Fear spell, but still use it occasionally, again more in emergency situations.  I'm starting to use the Blind more on a regular basis.  I have no concrete evidence but it seems like it is effective particularly against mean casters and archers; this could be just wishful thinking on my part though.  And finally the stun, while not lasting long enough and too long to cast, is a decent way to again buy some precious seconds, particularly in cases when you are facing 2 elite casters, or perhaps a 3rd mob adds to the group, the stun is very situational and can buy you just a couple seconds to yell for everyone to move back and get off an extra HoT.

Is PoM the CC character?
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« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2008, 06:53:41 PM »

I recently rolled a Conqueror, and I'm having a blast with it.  I just hit level 10, and am wondering how I should spec it out.  I was thinking about using the General tree, as it seems you get some health regen with that.. but I'm not sure.

I've never been an MMO number cruncher, so wondering if anyone has taken one fairly far.
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« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2008, 07:07:17 PM »

I've got a 47 Conqueror.

They basically have two lines - 2H or dual-wield. 2H focuses on stuns and knockbacks, while dual-wield has a lot of bleeding combos (DOTs).

From reading the forums most people heavy into PvP go the 2H route, because of the stuns/knockbacks. Since I figured I'd be spending more time in PvE, I went the dual-wield route for faster kills. I haven't put any points into the General tree yet because I wanted to make the purest DW I could, but I'm finally reaching the point where I can see I won't be maxing out the tree (some of the feats I just don't find very appealing), so I'm certain I'll be dumping some spare points into the General tree.

I'll have to say I'm very happy with it so far. I really like the group buffs we get, and I've dumped a lot of feat points in fleshing those out. You can do all sorts of cool stuff like auto-rezzing, auto-healing, stamina regen, etc. I was in a group with Kublai (another high level Conq) the other day, and we had group buffs going off left and right, people coming back from the dead, it was a blast.
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« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2008, 07:27:50 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 10, 2008, 07:07:17 PM

I've got a 47 Conqueror.

They basically have two lines - 2H or dual-wield. 2H focuses on stuns and knockbacks, while dual-wield has a lot of bleeding combos (DOTs).

From reading the forums most people heavy into PvP go the 2H route, because of the stuns/knockbacks. Since I figured I'd be spending more time in PvE, I went the dual-wield route for faster kills. I haven't put any points into the General tree yet because I wanted to make the purest DW I could, but I'm finally reaching the point where I can see I won't be maxing out the tree (some of the feats I just don't find very appealing), so I'm certain I'll be dumping some spare points into the General tree.

I'll have to say I'm very happy with it so far. I really like the group buffs we get, and I've dumped a lot of feat points in fleshing those out. You can do all sorts of cool stuff like auto-rezzing, auto-healing, stamina regen, etc. I was in a group with Kublai (another high level Conq) the other day, and we had group buffs going off left and right, people coming back from the dead, it was a blast.

Cool thanks.  I'm traditionally a healer in MMO's, but the Conqueror is lots of fun.
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« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2008, 07:55:23 PM »

That's great class design.  I like how they implemented hallmark features for some classes when they group.  Furious Inspiration? for Conquerors and Sadism for Dark Templars are 2 that come to mind.  I would like to see a group with a Conq and a DT with both FI and Sadism firing off regularly.  A novel and functional way to deal with the potentially sticky issue of having more than 1 type of soldier/tank class in a group.

Regarding PoM soloability, I have only watched them in action as a spectator playing a different class, but most of the time I'm watching with my jaw agape at what they are able to do in their 20s and 30s.  I thought I was Mr. Badass with my Bear Shaman taking on 2-3 baddies in my mid 20s in Connell Valley, when my delusion was crushed by a PoM running into camps, rounding up all the mobs, and then killing off the group of baddies while still managing a close to full health bar.  Out of all the classes, watching PoMs in action never gets old for me. 

         

 
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« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2008, 08:09:05 PM »

YK, any suggestions on how I should be playing my Conqueror.

I'm just sort of spamming the combos, I don't really have any strategies as of yet.  Not that it's not working, but the Conqueror is a bit squishy.
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« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2008, 08:25:08 PM »

Quote from: Austin on June 07, 2008, 01:06:50 AM

Is PoM the CC character?

Austin, something we're (collectively) learning is that this game, while very similar to many traditional MMORPGs, is also different in fairly significant ways.  No class is "the" CC class, or "the" healing class.  While PoM can provide both functions to some extent, neither can they support the function well enough on their own the way, say a DAOC Healer or WoW Priest can.  A lot of critical skills are on timers that are too long to be spammable. 

Every class has some hybrid functionality, and the primary functions we're used to in other games: tank, heal, CC, DPS are all spread throughout all the classes, with the strongest groups being able to spread the functions out amongst the group.  So you might have a Shaman and PoM alternating heals, while the PoM and an HoX alternate stuns, and the Shaman alternating DPS with the HoX, etc etc.
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« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2008, 08:45:55 PM »

My experience with the Assassin is quite different from what you guys are finding with your classes.

I won't go into class balance, as I don't ever expect a game in these early stages to have 12 balanced classes.

But in terms of class role and design, I'm finding the Assassin INCREDIBLY singleminded, and as a result, pretty bland in terms of class development.

I love the animations and the overall style of dual dagger slaughter, but I find that I'm GREATLY missing the traditional "rogue" features from games like LOTRO, Vanguard, and WoW.

You basically deal enough damage quickly, or die - and that's the pretty much the whole story of the Assassin class. You have no way of controlling the opponent, except for one short stun in on tree as the end-game power. There is absolutely no flavor - at least that I've found - in terms of picking locks, stealing, disarming, and so on.

In my opinion, it's probably the weakest implementation of a pure rogue that I've seen since forever.

I know they wanted to be different, but if something works and works well, you better have a damn good reason for not going with that. In this case, I have a very hard time seeing what that reason might be.

To make matters worse, they've made the extremely questionable choice of handing out new powers very rarely post 20, and when you finally do get something, they're basically just a bunch of upgrades that make the execution of the combo more cumbersome. Even worse, they give you 2-3 upgrades every 5 levels or so, instead of simply giving you 1 every 2 levels. I don't know how it is for the other classes, but I think some of their class leads need a serious crash course in the correlation between character development and player satisfaction.
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« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2008, 08:46:13 PM »

Quote
YK, any suggestions on how I should be playing my Conqueror.

I'm just sort of spamming the combos, I don't really have any strategies as of yet.  Not that it's not working, but the Conqueror is a bit squishy.

I can only speak for dual-wield, but I totally rely on my bleeding combos like the Bloodbath line. I dumped a lot of Feat points into those, and I use them constantly. Basically I always open up with my strongest bleed, then attack weak sides with my big damage combos. I'm still squishy when it comes to say, three enemies of my level or above, but I've mitigated that somewhat with focusing on stamina regen so I can sprint away if need be.

I will say there is a lot of skill involved in positioning, attacking the right weak spots, knowing your combos, etc. All this stuff adds up, and can mean the difference between one conqueror surviving a difficult fight and the other one dying. I've made it a point to always jostle for position where I can hit multiple enemies at once, and I've learned and organized my combos so that I always know what I'm doing rather than blindly pushing buttons.

My hotbar is set up like this:  \ \ \ | | | / / /   where the slashes represent the finishing move of the combo. Within each category (such as all my upper left finishing moves), I organize them from strongest (or most used) to weakest. So for example with my three upper right finishing moves, I always know my strongest is the first one (usually a bleed), the next strongest is the 2nd one, etc. What this allows me to do in fights is to know exactly which combo to use in which situation. If my enemy's right flank is open, then I'm going to hit him with my strongest right flank attack. If it hasn't refreshed yet, I hit him with my second strongest, etc. That's not really conqueror specific advice, but advice any beginning character could use. For me personally it helps me understand my combos more, and allows me to be as efficient as possible in combat by matching the situation to the most effective combo.

As far as buffs go, when I solo I tend to use Fire Weave, which adds flame damage (I maxed this one out in my feat tree), and Shield of Retribution, which is a basic damage shield. When I group, I'll use Fire Weave and Inspire the Ranks. Also when I group I'll use the Defiance feat as often as possible, which is an emergency group heal that can be used when Furious Inspiration is active. I've poured enough points into that one that it also adds a mana/stamina regen when it goes off.

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« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2008, 09:50:34 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 10, 2008, 08:25:08 PM

Quote from: Austin on June 07, 2008, 01:06:50 AM

Is PoM the CC character?

Austin, something we're (collectively) learning is that this game, while very similar to many traditional MMORPGs, is also different in fairly significant ways.  No class is "the" CC class, or "the" healing class.  While PoM can provide both functions to some extent, neither can they support the function well enough on their own the way, say a DAOC Healer or WoW Priest can.  A lot of critical skills are on timers that are too long to be spammable. 

Every class has some hybrid functionality, and the primary functions we're used to in other games: tank, heal, CC, DPS are all spread throughout all the classes, with the strongest groups being able to spread the functions out amongst the group.  So you might have a Shaman and PoM alternating heals, while the PoM and an HoX alternate stuns, and the Shaman alternating DPS with the HoX, etc etc.

Yea  i think it's a really neat system in this regard.   You still need a healer and a tank and some dps for a 'complete' group but the path taken to get there is quite diverse with most classes able to multitask(on the fly) into different roles depending on need.  It makes for some of the most exciting/interesting group combat I have been in (which admittedly is very little at this point ).
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« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2008, 11:38:56 AM »

Quote from: Roguetad on June 05, 2008, 03:16:36 PM

I didn't play the beta or have early access, so I wanted to try out a few classes on Tortage to see what I enjoyed the most. 

I played a Barbarian, Assassin, ToS, Bear Shaman and HoX to 20.  Out of those 5, this is how I would rank them:

Easiest to level from 1-20:  Barbarian...HoX...Assassin....ToS................................Bear Shaman

Most buttkicking on the way to 20:  Barbarian followed closely by HoX (after I upgraded the pbaoe to a .3 sec cast)...Assassin...ToS....................................................Bear Shaman

Easiest handling of group mobs to 20:  From 1-15 this goes to the Barbarian, from 15-20 it goes to the HoX.  Again the .3 sec cast pbaoe with a short recast timer does wonders on groups of baddies.  Third place goes to ToS, followed by Assassin, and in very distant last place Bear Shaman. 

Easiest dispatching of single mobs and bosses: Assassin followed by...wait for it...Bear Shaman level 15+. 

Most sense of reward getting a class to level 20:  Bear Shaman.  Man did they make that a right of passage.  At level 15 things really started to pick up, and at level 17 I could see the light at the end of the tunnel.  By level 20 he was kicking butt and walking away from fights with a full health bar.

Most potential in the long run:  ToS...Bear Shaman...HoX

Most fun for my playstyle up to 20:  HoX.  Any class that has skills named Burn to Death and I eat your Heart gets a nod from me.  The Herald is like the ultimate suicide warrior...except they can set baddies on fire and lop their heads off as they themselves get pummeled.  It's all about dishing out the pain before a quick death.  A tip I learned with my herald that is too fun not to share: Cue up a big damage combo, or an aoe combo like pillar of fire just before hitting Hellstep (charge), wait on the last step of the combo, and then charge!  As soon as you arrive, hit the last directional button of the combo, and wham, you show up and dish out instant combo mayhem. 

The Assassin was fun too, but man do they go down quick.  Contrary to what I had read, up to 20 they kick some serious ass, and from my experience, they can decimate groups if the combos are timed and aimed right.  It's a similar style as the HoX where I was trying to dish out damage as fast as possible before dying (health potions help a ton at the start of a fight).  As Hark mentioned earlier, not having a baseline CC ability seems like a glaring hole in the class. 

Third place for fun goes to the Bear Shaman.  I know that sounds counterintuitive considering it was not a fun experience getting him to 15, and maybe I am a glutton for punishment, but it truly is like playing a different class at 20.  The BS at level 20 is a blast to play.  All sorts of utility, direct heal, hots that tie directly into combat, knockdown, aoe stun, and some fun combos. 

I really enjoyed playing a Barbarian to 20 also, both DW and 2 handed.  They are a great class.  Popping out of stealth to wreak havoc on a group of baddies doesn't seem like it would ever get old.  The class reminds of a hardier version of the Shadowblade from daoc.



   
 

Great write up.   For what it is worth BS get a lot better after 25.  If you want to heal and have mellee combos BS is your one option.  Since AoC has the interesting new fangled mellee options I decided to go with BS.

I took DT up to 41.  The class is fun initially but underpowered at the moment.  You tend to be a proc wh*re as so many of your abilities are random procs.  I don't like to rely on this.  The DT is supposedly one of the lowest dps and poorest pvp classes. 
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« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2008, 03:38:58 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 10, 2008, 08:46:13 PM

My hotbar is set up like this:  \ \ \ | | | / / /   where the slashes represent the finishing move of the combo.

for some reason I was thinking it was the opening move of the combo that you wanted to select according to their shields  icon_redface  I guess I'll have to change my strategy abit, although my going stealth, mexxing them, hitting them with Pin Down and then Salvo seems to be pretty effective against solo mobs.
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« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2008, 03:47:37 PM »

The Assassin really feels like a class that did not get fully fleshed out during development.  My understanding is that it is actually the combination of 2 classes from the beta, which they then merged into one class, the former classes now broken into 2 trees (Lotus and Corruption).  Whatever was lost in the Frankenstein process, has not translated well into the overall Assassin experience (at least from what I've seen as a lowbie).  To net it down to the basics (in my mind), I'm playing a class that has no defense (cloth/silk), does not get defense buffs like mages, or health buffs like priests, no damage absorption buff (like a HoX), and has no crowd control to speak of during most of the Assassin's leveling experience. 

More than any other class, I really feel like I'm playing the watch the health bar game with the Assassin.  It's a similar feel to the Hox, who has to burn down baddies before he dies, but without the AoE options or the damage absorption.  With the assassin, the health bar literally plummets the second combat begins, even with a potion up.  It really is a game of trying to dish out damage faster than the health bar drops. 

Some good things:
- They already do excellent damage, and with the right stringing of combos they can take down PvE mobs quick.  The fights are over very fast, one way or the other.

- Ok that's all I can think of for good things ninja2


Not so good:
- They get absolutely pummeled.  Some form of baseline evasion boost above the other classes would be helpful without additional feat specialization (if evasion is working). 

- No baseline CC really hurts the leveling up experience.  A fight against more than 1 baddie is a race against the diminishing health bar.  This would also be a big help I imagine in pvp. 

- No utility.  This part is actually ok with me, as long as they boost up the single focused killing aspect of the class.


Things I've learned by getting pummeled:
- Fights go alot better if I use my fastest combos, which duh, I learned are the assassin specific combos.  The rogue combos (cunning strike and viscous strikes) seem like the best options early on, but they are slow to fire off, and start to diminish in damage output.  Grim Corruption may seem like it stinks at first, but it fires off very fast, and is a nice opening option followed up by 2 levels of Swift Strikes.

- Using 2 levels of Swift Strikes as my standard Up directional attacks have made a big difference.  The assassin combos are so fast that usually mobs don't have enough time to shift their shields around.  If I open with Slow Death Strike or Grim Corruption, both side attacks, I can string together back to back Swift Strikes before the baddie can adjust.  The Swift Strikes combo seems well designed to proc things like Flesh Rot and offhand chances to fire.  I've had plenty of SS combos turn into instant death because all the procs fire off.   

- I use Slow Death Strike with almost every even level or above fight.  At first I never used it because it seems like a complete waste given how short assassin fights are.  It's a little slow to fire off too, relative to GC and SS.  With that said, I swear when I line up a group of baddies and use SDS, they all get the dot, and I then start chaining into GC or SS.  By the time the first mob is dead, the others are close behind.  I've even been able to just hit active block and let baddies tick away to death.  It's on a 10 sec timer I believe, so I feel like the developers intended it be an option for most fights. 

- For easier mobs, or lower level, I use Grim Corruption followed up by 1 or 2 SSs and they're dead.       

               
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 03:56:14 PM by Roguetad » Logged
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« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2008, 03:59:52 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 11, 2008, 03:38:58 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on June 10, 2008, 08:46:13 PM

My hotbar is set up like this:  \ \ \ | | | / / /   where the slashes represent the finishing move of the combo.

for some reason I was thinking it was the opening move of the combo that you wanted to select according to their shields  icon_redface  I guess I'll have to change my strategy abit, although my going stealth, mexxing them, hitting them with Pin Down and then Salvo seems to be pretty effective against solo mobs.

The reason why the finishing move is so important is because of the huge damage bonus associated with it.

Suppose (for argument's sake, I am not sure what the exact numbers are) a triple shield reduces your damage by 50%. If your opening move (which is a regular aka"white" damage of let's say 150 points) lands on a triple shield, the actual damage will be reduced to 75, i.e you lose 75 points of damage. However, if your finishing move (which is the combo damage of let's say 250 points) lands on a triple shield, the actual damage will be reduced to 125, i.e. you lose 125 points of damage.

Obviously, you want to lose due to the shields as little damage as possible, so you have to plan to land your most damaging blows on the least protected sides.

Also remember that landing on unprotected side actually increases your damage, again by percentage. So by landing your finishing blow on the side with no shields, you are not only not losing 125 damage, you are actually dealing, let's say, 125 (50%) more, which results in nice 375 damage. Compare it to 125 you deal if you land your finishing move on a triple shield.

So while the numbers above (50% damage reduction or increase) are arbitrary, they do demonstrate the mechanics behind.
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« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2008, 04:06:34 PM »

Quote
- They get absolutely pummeled.  Some form of baseline evasion boost above the other classes would be helpful without additional feat specialization (if evasion is working). 

I think I remember something about fixing evasion in one of the recent patch notes, so I guess they are still working on it. If done properly, evasion would be a great thing for rogues, IMO it's the best damage mitigation option.
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« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2008, 05:40:04 PM »

The latest patch notes mentioned something about evasion now working properly when you're attacked from behind (if I'm reading it right). Though I've had a hard time judging if it's really happenin'.

I'd love for Funcom maybe just one time to give everybody a free "feats respec" (as the CoX devs do on occasion when an update introduces a lot of changes). At 41 I think I finally know - for my Conqueror - which ones I'd really want to pump points in and which I'd like to skip (if possible, I know sometimes the "feat tree prerequisites" seem to sort of force you into putting at least a point in certain things). But I was testing and experimenting along the way.]

Or as Tony Stark says in the Iron Man movie, "I just finally know what it is I have to do. But I can't afford to reset my feats to do it!" Well OK I added the last part...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 05:42:46 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2008, 08:59:49 PM »

So for assassins, poison doesn't work well?  Seems like poison for mobs is very powerful.  Forgetting the broken spiders in Frost Swamp, even generic spider poisons are tough for my HoTs to keep up with.
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« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2008, 02:53:16 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 11, 2008, 08:59:49 PM

So for assassins, poison doesn't work well?  Seems like poison for mobs is very powerful.  Forgetting the broken spiders in Frost Swamp, even generic spider poisons are tough for my HoTs to keep up with.

I think I'm too low level to really appreciate all of the class potential.  It may not be the best playstyle fit for me either.  I spent some points to enhance the poison dot, and it does seem to do a great job of ticking away health.  The challenge seems to be when to use it.  Many fights for an assassin are over so fast that the poison dot doesn't even get a chance to be effective.  For groups it seems ideal since it will tick away on any baddies that were in the combo cone.  I can see it being effective in pvp against players with active hots up or on mobs that have high regen (or both). 

It's a really fast paced class that requires excellent tactical awareness and timing.  After performing baby duty when I return from work, and an hour or so of toddler time with my oldest before I jump on to play later in the evening, my brain is a little slow.  I may need to try a class that does not have such high brain activity requirements. icon_razz 

   
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 02:55:07 PM by Roguetad » Logged
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« Reply #78 on: June 16, 2008, 03:25:48 PM »

Alright my Conqueror hit 20, and I just got a whole whack of feats and stuff.  I'm totally overwhelmed.  I need some advice on how to play the Conqueror.

I am mostly speccing Carnage, with dual weilding.
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« Reply #79 on: June 16, 2008, 03:52:20 PM »

Quote from: El-Producto on June 16, 2008, 03:25:48 PM

Alright my Conqueror hit 20, and I just got a whole whack of feats and stuff.  I'm totally overwhelmed.  I need some advice on how to play the Conqueror.

I am mostly speccing Carnage, with dual weilding.

I don't think any other class has as many buttons to click, there are so many formation commands (wait till you hit 60 if you think you are overwhelmed now).  I just choose one formation command from each set which I think is most useful then I assign these to some keyboard keys.  While in combat, I just mash these keys once in awhile.  It's pretty hard to tell how effective they are for the group especially since there is no clear indicator that your buff hit.  They are supposed to be positional: to the front, the side and behind.  But combat is really too fast paced to think about these things while I'm doing combos, stance dancing, etc.  If you are DW, you probably want to specialize Imprived Inspire and keep that buff up at all times, it is really powerful.  Group members will love you for it.

Is there anything particular you are having trouble with?
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