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Author Topic: Age of Conan Impressions  (Read 37449 times)
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StriderGG
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« Reply #320 on: June 24, 2008, 04:04:24 PM »

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* Yes, if you didn't get the pre-order perks, you do have to spend 1G for the basic riding skill, and then 2G for a horse. Once you get the mount, a little "horsie" icon appears in your inventory. You can drag that to any hotbar slot for quick access. You can have the mount sprint, and it uses stamina just as if you're running.

I do have a Mammoth mount from pre-ordering. Does it mean I don't need to buy a skill? I didn't have to buy the riding skill to be able to ride my mammoth.

I am confused. I guess when the time comes, I'll just buy a horse and see if I can ride it. If not, I'll buy the skill. Can't wait.
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« Reply #321 on: June 24, 2008, 04:23:52 PM »

You need to get the skill, if you do not show 2 mammoth attack skills you need to do another /claim .
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« Reply #322 on: June 24, 2008, 04:41:48 PM »

I tried the mammoth attacks and they don't seem to do much damage against mobs.  I have yet to use them on a building though, which is what they are meant for.
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« Reply #323 on: June 24, 2008, 07:02:27 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 24, 2008, 04:41:48 PM

I tried the mammoth attacks and they don't seem to do much damage against mobs.  I have yet to use them on a building though, which is what they are meant for.

Just don't start destroying our newly built city! smile
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« Reply #324 on: June 25, 2008, 05:22:11 PM »

Well the guy's gotta practice on SOMEthing!  icon_razz

So I get this e-mail from Funcom:
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Are you ready to join the most savage, sexy and brutal MMO ever created?

We know that you have previously expressed an interest in Age of Conan, but we see you have yet to join ranks with the hundreds of thousands of gamers who are now having a great time in Hyboria. Itís time to remedy that, and we urge you to take the bold step into Conanís world and experience Hyboria for yourself!
"Yet to join the ranks?" Dear Funcom, what the hell is wrong with you people? What do you think I've been playing every night for the last two weeks? Tiddly winks? Conan in a Box?  saywhat icon_lol

And I'm sorry to break it to you, Funcom, but there's more to making a game "sexy" than nipples and crocodile skin loin clothes.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 05:24:52 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #325 on: June 25, 2008, 07:51:09 PM »

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And I'm sorry to break it to you, Funcom, but there's more to making a game "sexy" than nipples and crocodile skin loin clothes.

Yes, there is. MORE nipples and skin loin clothes smile

I've got the same email by the way. WTF "have previously expressed an interest"? Really, all these little screwups are getting ridiculous.
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« Reply #326 on: June 30, 2008, 05:30:44 PM »

I have seen the light! I'm a total PvP convert now.

A little background - I've never played PvP full time in an MMO, and only rarely dabbled in it part-time. However, a friend of mine has a guild on a PvP server in AoC and has been begging me for weeks to give it a try so I finally caved in.

Ganking really hasn't been that bad. I just hit 30 and have only died 10 times due to PvP. Out of those 10, less than half were true "ganks" by people of significantly higher level. The caveat to that is that I've played very cautiously - I avoid areas known for ganking, use stealth when need be, and take advantage of sparsely populated areas/instances to level as much as possible.

The thrill of actually pulling off a kill against another person, however, is definitely worth the occasional frustration. I've engaged in some really epic battles. The fun thing about the AoC PvP system is that skill plays a very large role (larger than PvP in a lot of other MMOs), and the fact that even large level differences can be overcome on occasion with good strategy and a little luck. I've taken down people up to 6 levels higher than me (that may not hold true for every class, but just stating what I've experienced first-hand).

The other thing I like about playing on the PvP server now is that as many of you know from listening to me whine on these boards is that I've grown frustrated with the ease of soloing/lack of challenge in current MMOs. PvP is a great counterpoint to that. Even easy solo quests can suddenly become challenging if you run into hostile players. There is an element of randomness that is just plain fun - AI can never match the thrill of suddenly finding yourself in a life or death struggle during a routine fedex quest.

For those who have avoided PvP for fear of mass ganking or because you've never PvPed in the past, I encourage you to give it a shot. I was about as anti-PvP as they come in the realm of MMOs, and now I'm finding an entirely new appreciation not just for AoC, but for the concept of PvP in general.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #327 on: June 30, 2008, 08:48:04 PM »

Blasphemer!  icon_twisted

Just kidding. I don't begrudge anyone enjoying PVP. Glad it hooked you.  icon_cool In fact, I want them to make it better in AoC cause I know it's important for the game's long term future.

I just tend to play games to make some friends (however temporarily), and I generally have found co-op and the like more conducive to that. Getting face-stomped by someone who then runs away in glee, never found any friendships growing out of that.  disgust otoh, I have on occasion had friendships grow out of getting mutually PVP'd, and then working together (happened in Diablo "1" sometimes). Probably if I was in a PVP-focused guild that teamed a lot I might feel differently.

I think though I would get pretty ticked off if I traveled a zillion miles through various zones and then got wasted by someone as I was merrily running to Mr. NPC (esp. if I didn't have a mount). I think also if another player just waited until some AI enemies had worn me down, stepped in and finished me off, I think I'd be ticked off and wouldn't feel all that positive about the game anymore.

I have felt the sweat-inducing tension and occasional bursts of adrenaline in limited doses of PvP in City of Heroes and Ultima Online, but I'm generally more a fan of having designated PVP areas and not otherwise having to be paranoid that every other player I run into is going to stab me in the back. I know others find it invigorating. I think the key is to just give players both options, so I'm glad it seems to be providing that choice (even if it needs work).

On the solo side, I've seen some things that give me a little hope for unpredictability, including roving patrols with what appear to be unpredictable patterns, enemies that run away to get reinforcements (it seems, I'm not really sure what the heck they're doing sometimes  icon_razz) and then come back at you, and quest twists that can be a little surprising. I guess the danger of that is people who enjoy predictable grinding (like me, on occasion) can get upset when the AI suddenly does something unexpected or said roving patrol suddenly walks in on you when you thought you'd found a peaceful corner...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 08:52:48 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #328 on: July 01, 2008, 12:36:50 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 30, 2008, 05:30:44 PM

I have seen the light! I'm a total PvP convert now.

dang, we were having some nice groups getting together too just for you.
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« Reply #329 on: July 01, 2008, 01:15:00 PM »

Funcom -- which has U.S. offices in Durham, N.C., btw; they're hiring customer service folks for the location -- put out a press release that it has about 700,000 registered AoC accounts at this point. The other day the game director mentioned in an interview that the 1 million number bandied about it is "the number of copies sold to retailers," and they didn't have a number yet for games sold-through to customers.

Age of Conan continues to dominate retail charts
http://www.funcom.com/wsp/funcom/frontend.cgi?func=publish.show&func_id=1305&table=CONTENT&item=1004

Anarchist: "The game sold 1 million copies and 300,000 already quit!"
Pessimist: "They sent 1 million copies to retailers and 300,000 are rotting on shelves and in warehouses!"
Optimist: "They sold out 700,000 copies and they sent 300,000 to restock shelves and warehouses!"
Non MMOGers: "Meh. All mmorpgs suck. I'm too cool to play them."
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« Reply #330 on: July 01, 2008, 02:57:14 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on July 01, 2008, 01:15:00 PM

Anarchist: "The game sold 1 million copies and 300,000 already quit!"

300,000 + 1
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« Reply #331 on: July 01, 2008, 03:27:03 PM »

Don't believe any of these figures. I just look at it all as hype or mis-information.

Go in game........Do you feel a part of a vibrant, growing community? Then thats all you need.

I never got that feeling from AoC other than the first 20 levels during the first week it was released.

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« Reply #332 on: July 01, 2008, 03:30:18 PM »

It boggles my mind that you continue to complain about a game that you haven't played in a month. How would you know what kind of community there is? That's not meant to be a snarky retort, it's a genuine question. How can you complain about bugs, performance, community, etc. in virtually every thread when you are not currently playing, and have not played since just after launch? The game has improved quite a bit since then.

I don't mind negative criticism, but it needs to be informed.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 04:44:40 PM by YellowKing » Logged
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« Reply #333 on: July 01, 2008, 04:59:13 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on July 01, 2008, 03:30:18 PM

It boggles my mind that you continue to complain about a game that you haven't played in a month. How would you know what kind of community there is? That's not meant to be a snarky retort, it's a genuine question. How can you complain about bugs, performance, community, etc. in virtually every thread when you are not currently playing, and have not played since just after launch? The game has improved quite a bit since then.

I don't mind negative criticism, but it needs to be informed.

Oh for crying out loud. You get on my nerves sometimes YK. I've popped in and out of AoC. Anyway, why would I need to prove anything to you.
You're a pain in the butt sometimes.
Grow up.
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« Reply #334 on: July 01, 2008, 05:09:49 PM »

Please let the audience throw their stones and tomatoes, and then they'll move on soon enough.  icon_razz

I love the game, in spite of a few crazy bugs, and I'm honestly just trying to have a little fun with some of the things I read. I no more think I can convince someone to like AoC who has soured on it, than one of WoW's 8 million players has any chance of convincing me I want to return to (I played WoW 3 weeks early on, and never had the urge to play again). People make up their minds pretty fast, and then it generally hardens like concrete. icon_neutral

OTOH, if someone just is frustrated by the bugginess and technical glitches (I got disconnected twice during "lag bubbles" last night for example), I certainly don't blame them for canceling and would hope maybe they'd check back in somewhere down the road to see how things shape up.

I can say that at 60 I'm having even more fun than I did at 40, or at 20. When you have higher combat skills, and more abilities and feats and special powers and such, it really gives more variety in combat and I like figuring what to use in what situation. And you do here and there get to fight things you've not encountered in other mmogs.

So I was having some problems in Atzel. What it turns out is, certain Atzel Pickets will run away from you and activate a Raid Horn (my term for it). This calls out some big AI Raid Party (no bosses, but it's a nasty group you probably don't want to tackle solo). It won't go right after you though. It'll sort of sweep around the vicinity a bit before going back to its base.

So yesterday, I was more careful about avoiding it, and knowing if I saw a Raid Party to keep a safe distance. It was actually kind of fun, added a bit of tension. I haven't figured out exactly which Pickets (an Atzel warrior type) run back to the horn.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #335 on: July 01, 2008, 05:56:30 PM »

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Oh for crying out loud. You get on my nerves sometimes YK. I've popped in and out of AoC. Anyway, why would I need to prove anything to you. You're a pain in the butt sometimes. Grow up.

Sorry you feel that way, but I'm just trying to keep things honest. You're potentially turning people away from a game they very well may have a lot of fun with based on incomplete information and limited experience. I'm not trying to be an ass or get on anyone's nerves, I'm just trying to give the game a fair shake.
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« Reply #336 on: July 01, 2008, 06:17:12 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on July 01, 2008, 05:56:30 PM

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Oh for crying out loud. You get on my nerves sometimes YK. I've popped in and out of AoC. Anyway, why would I need to prove anything to you. You're a pain in the butt sometimes. Grow up.

Sorry you feel that way, but I'm just trying to keep things honest. You're potentially turning people away from a game they very well may have a lot of fun with based on incomplete information and limited experience. I'm not trying to be an ass or get on anyone's nerves, I'm just trying to give the game a fair shake.

I'm keeping things honest as well. Just from the other end of the spectrum. I believe both sides need representation for people to make an intelligent choice.
I think anyone considering AoC for a game to subscribe to need to know this game is half done. And I don't care if I play all the time or just every now and then, its still half-done.

If that scares people away from playing, then good. Because putting money into the pockets of developers who continue to release games months ahead of when they should is giving them the wrong signal.

Why do you feel AoC needs defending?
A game rises or falls on its own merits.

I believe I'm an honest gamer. I have no reason to be other wise.
When I speak negatively or positevely about a gaming experience I do it without agenda or some hidden reasons.

You just don't like me doing that. Do you suggest I stop because my way of posting about a game annoys you?

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« Reply #337 on: July 01, 2008, 06:26:41 PM »

I was having some fun with AoC up until the Necro changes.  Then it was /cancel.  I usually don't last longer than the provided month in MMO's anyway.  WoW was the exception which I played for 3 months on 2 different occasions.
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« Reply #338 on: July 01, 2008, 06:40:51 PM »

Not at all. I agree that negative criticism plays an important role in judging a game fairly.

On the other hand, I don't think criticism from someone who only plays sporadically should be given equal weight to criticism from people who play the game every single night, many of whom even played in beta.

To be honest, your criticisms of the game didn't annoy me nearly as much as your dismissal of the subscription numbers as "hype and misinformation" without a *single shred of evidence* to back that claim up. That's not critiquing, that's trolling.
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« Reply #339 on: July 01, 2008, 06:49:16 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on July 01, 2008, 04:59:13 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on July 01, 2008, 03:30:18 PM

It boggles my mind that you continue to complain about a game that you haven't played in a month. How would you know what kind of community there is? That's not meant to be a snarky retort, it's a genuine question. How can you complain about bugs, performance, community, etc. in virtually every thread when you are not currently playing, and have not played since just after launch? The game has improved quite a bit since then.

I don't mind negative criticism, but it needs to be informed.

Oh for crying out loud. You get on my nerves sometimes YK. I've popped in and out of AoC. Anyway, why would I need to prove anything to you.
You're a pain in the butt sometimes.
Grow up.

Did you make an Alt?  The guild list showed your arclight toon as being inactive for quite some time.
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« Reply #340 on: July 01, 2008, 07:00:55 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 01, 2008, 06:49:16 PM

Quote from: Arclight on July 01, 2008, 04:59:13 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on July 01, 2008, 03:30:18 PM

It boggles my mind that you continue to complain about a game that you haven't played in a month. How would you know what kind of community there is? That's not meant to be a snarky retort, it's a genuine question. How can you complain about bugs, performance, community, etc. in virtually every thread when you are not currently playing, and have not played since just after launch? The game has improved quite a bit since then.

I don't mind negative criticism, but it needs to be informed.

Oh for crying out loud. You get on my nerves sometimes YK. I've popped in and out of AoC. Anyway, why would I need to prove anything to you.
You're a pain in the butt sometimes.
Grow up.

Did you make an Alt?  The guild list showed your arclight toon as being inactive for quite some time.

Oh yeah, made a few. Wanted to try them all to get an honest feel for the game
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« Reply #341 on: July 01, 2008, 07:49:19 PM »

I am having a good time with this game.  I play on Cimmeria with a guild there, Thalian Guard.  We have our guild city built with the exception of the outer walls and gate; we have all the towers up.  We just dont have enough gold to complete the walls; we do have all the resources though.

I have run into one quest thats bugged so far.  I cannot get the key to get into the armsmens arena as apparently the June 26 patch borked it; the guy who wants to test you wont fight you.

I play on a PvP server and honestly its pretty rare that I get ganked.  I do play a ranger so I can usually get away if someone attacks and stealth off.  I do usually go back and make them pay for attacking me.  Two guildies each donated me 1 gold so I could get my horse; when I hit 50 I will gather up some higher level resources to sell and pay them back.
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« Reply #342 on: July 02, 2008, 12:51:45 PM »

Well my main toon hit level 75 last night (barbarian on the Cimmeria server) and I'm still having a blast overall. PvP servers are the place to be - the added sense of danger and excitement is just great.

Yes, the game has its flaws, and I hope they will address them in upcoming patches. To call the game "half done" is really a terribly inaccurate portrayal of the game.
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« Reply #343 on: July 02, 2008, 01:34:32 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 23, 2008, 11:28:11 AM

I'm married with a career too. I have maybe an hour or two to play each night. You guys act like I'm some moron who has 8 hours a day to spend on MMOs. I don't. I'm not arguing that everybody has time to play group content. But I am stating the FACT that WoW has forced a solo-centric design philosophy on modern MMOs and the FACT that this design philosophy in most cases has drastically reduced the incentive and population that is grouping, and the FACT that this goes against the very nature of the MMO and the party/teamwork concept of RPGs in general dating all the way back to D&D.

I do not think that is a fact as you say. MMOs, while borrowing on many of the ideas of RPGs, do not fall squarely into that mold. They simply can't due to there being 10,000 heros running around. EQs group-centric design philosphy created a huge issue when a group simply was not there. What could you do? Nothing. Which was the root of the problem. So you are spending money to play a game, and due to the inability to find a group you are just sitting around, unable to do anything fun.

I feel that Blizzard is definately going in the right direction (for the current MMOL capabilities) by having fun things for people to do when they can not get a group and, at the same time, making group play more rewarding and fun than solo play. I think they could tweak it a little more toward grouping being even more rewarding, but I think its pretty good where it sits now.
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« Reply #344 on: July 02, 2008, 01:58:41 PM »

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EQs group-centric design philosphy created a huge issue when a group simply was not there. What could you do? Nothing. Which was the root of the problem. So you are spending money to play a game, and due to the inability to find a group you are just sitting around, unable to do anything fun.

I played EQ1 for 3 1/2 years, and I never felt like I could do nothing because I couldn't find a group. Why? Everybody grouped. If you couldn't find a group in one spot, you could move to another and find one. Or wait 5 minutes until someone had to go eat dinner.

Contrast that to AoC, which is so solo friendly. On the PvE server I had to completely abandon my 58 Conqueror because all I had left were group quests and nobody wanted to group.

WoW drastically overcorrected the "problem." Now the pendulum has swung to the exact opposite extreme, where groupers are the ones sitting around with nothing to do.

Quote
PvP servers are the place to be - the added sense of danger and excitement is just great.

I agree. Plus another added benefit is you actually meet people. I make it a point to send tells to people I get in fights with - "Good fight" or whatever. I've struck up some great conversations with people and met new friends. Something that really never happened at all for me on the PvE server.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 02:00:31 PM by YellowKing » Logged
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« Reply #345 on: July 02, 2008, 03:58:26 PM »

I never played EQ1, but I did play City of Heroes, which I think is considered somewhat of an "older" game, right?  Maybe it's changed now, but back when I played that, just about everyone grouped all the time.  It was my very first MMO experience, and I just kind of thought that's the way it worked.  You teamed up and made progress or you sort of puttered around and waited to find a group.  WoW was the second MMO I ever tried, and it quickly became apparent that grouping was not really needed at all. 

As a person new to the MMO scene, I didn't know which way was "normal" - I just viewed the games as completely different types, even if they were technically in the same genre.  I also think I like both styles equally.  I totally love grouping in games like this, but I certainly appreciate the ability to solo and make good progress at the same time.  I would think that people would gravitate to whichever playstyle they prefer.  But I am as guilty as the next person I guess in that I go into each game with entirely different expecations.  When playing CoH, I expect to group.  When playing WoW, I expect to solo.  So if I am "joe-average" MMO player, I would imagine/guess there are a lot of other joe-averages that have the same overall views.  Maybe not, but that's my thinking anyway.
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« Reply #346 on: July 02, 2008, 04:54:17 PM »

Agreed, Lockdown. The problem is you can't find the group-focused MMOs like CoH since WoW came out. I'm not saying that won't change, but it's verifiable that it hasn't changed in the last 4 years. If WoW's subscription numbers are any indication, I don't know that there's any incentive for it to change from a business perspective.




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« Reply #347 on: July 02, 2008, 06:49:37 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on July 02, 2008, 01:58:41 PM

Quote
EQs group-centric design philosphy created a huge issue when a group simply was not there. What could you do? Nothing. Which was the root of the problem. So you are spending money to play a game, and due to the inability to find a group you are just sitting around, unable to do anything fun.

I played EQ1 for 3 1/2 years, and I never felt like I could do nothing because I couldn't find a group. Why? Everybody grouped. If you couldn't find a group in one spot, you could move to another and find one. Or wait 5 minutes until someone had to go eat dinner.

Contrast that to AoC, which is so solo friendly. On the PvE server I had to completely abandon my 58 Conqueror because all I had left were group quests and nobody wanted to group.

WoW drastically overcorrected the "problem." Now the pendulum has swung to the exact opposite extreme, where groupers are the ones sitting around with nothing to do.

I also played EQ1 for several years (over 5000 hours logged before I moved on to DaoC) and there were many times when I could not find a group to do anything with. I sat at the entrances to many a dungeon waiting and waiting and waiting for groups or worse, waiting at the entrance with a full group yelling "Camp check" every few minutes. EQ1 had some really rigid class rolls which did not help any. If all the camps in a dungeon had healers, you were SOL if you were a healer LFG. And those healers did not go to lunch since it was so hard to get a group in the first place. They ate their lunch at their computer. Travel was a pain in the arse also so running from dungeon to dungeon to see if there were any groups needing your class took no small amount of time. This was not a problem specific to me either, everyone always complained about this. This was, by far, the biggest factor in me quitting EQ1.

I guess we have to agree to disagree that the pendulm has swung too far in WoW. I do not think it has. With the improved LFG channel and interface, I have little issues finding groups needing whatever character I happen to be playing. And even if I do have to wait a while for a group to form up that want to run the specific dungeon I want to, there almost always is another fun activity I can do while waiting for a group. In EQ1, there was nothing.
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« Reply #348 on: July 02, 2008, 07:04:21 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on July 02, 2008, 03:58:26 PM

I never played EQ1, but I did play City of Heroes, which I think is considered somewhat of an "older" game, right?  Maybe it's changed now, but back when I played that, just about everyone grouped all the time.  It was my very first MMO experience, and I just kind of thought that's the way it worked.  You teamed up and made progress or you sort of puttered around and waited to find a group.  WoW was the second MMO I ever tried, and it quickly became apparent that grouping was not really needed at all. 

Grouping is needed for some outdoor quests (a relatively small amount admittedly)
Grouping is needed for dungeon instance runs.
Grouping is needed for many faction increases.
Grouping is needed to acquire a vast majority of higher quality treasure.

Grouping and doing an instance run is an excellent source of experience points.
Grouping lets you utilize a host of different abilities (depending on class) that you often would not use.

So when you say grouping is not really needed at all. Needed for what? To level up? I guess if that is what you are trying to say then yes, Blizzard allows you to basically pay to play a single-player game if your goal is to level from 1 to 70 and see a portion of the available content. Don't see anything wrong with that though. ~shrug~. If they could not do that, chances are they would not be playing WoW so you wouldn't be grouping with them regardless. smile







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« Reply #349 on: July 02, 2008, 07:05:34 PM »

I got to do my L60 Destiny quests last night. Pretty fun, if nothing fantabulous.

Some observations from it. Might be spoiler-ish, so I'll use the spoiler buttons... fwiw, though I don't think it's spoiling to try to share a couple positive things that might motivate you to reach L60.  icon_cool Still, if you don't wanna know, don't click the button!  icon_razz

I mean it!

Spoiler for Hiden:
* The L60 Instance cave was unique in layout but there was nothing terribly different aside from some red water pools (blood pools?).

* The end boss has a pretty awesome attack. I don't really know how to describe it. When you get it down to a certain degree of health, he summons weird walking dead pets and becomes invulnerable. Meanwhile he's got geysers of blood shooting up all over him (protecting him I guess?).

The dead pets swarm you, and you've got to get every single one of them down before the boss starts taking damage again. It wasn't as difficult to defeat as I thought it'd be (once i realized The Trick), but I thought it was a very cool, unique boss. I mentioned in a chat channel that it seemed to be channeling "early Clive Barker."  icon_twisted The game could use a lot more of this twisted nature, though I guess the book's lore doesn't really let you throw this kind of thing at the player out in the regular play areas.

* You get to meet Conan! (back in Nobles). I stayed up late cause I couldn't stop playing until I got to meet him. His voice sounds noble, but maybe a little too much like an English actor doing Shakespeare if you ask me. He wears some unique looking armor. For an MMO, the dialogue is pretty interesting, and you get an idea of some of the Hyborian politics and conflicts that are going on.

* L60 destiny sends you out to various different zones (three I think), and you'll find it a lot less time-consuming with the mount and the PC Gamer "totam", esp. if Tarantia was your "home town" after leaving Tortage.


I've already beaten the dead horse (mammoth?) about the need for at least a dedicated LFG channel in the game. LOTORO has one, and it made teaming up often (for those that want to do that) so much easier than forcing people to basically spam their LFMs and LFGs into various Regional and OOC channels hoping for a bite. I'd rather know that everyone reading a channel (even if it's fewer than the number viewing Regional/OOC) was actively interested in teaming.

My metaphor is, do you want to fish (seek teammates) in a pond that has maybe 10 fish (people interested in teaming) and 90 old shoes (people not interested in teaming); or in a lake (LFG channel) that has 50 fish (people interested in teaming) and nothing else? Yes, I know, you're a shoe salesman so you preferred the first one. Sorry, there's just no hope for you.  icon_lol

I'm under the impression they are revamping the friends lists and hopefully the player search/looking for functions, but I still think simply having a channel for it would make teaming easier to find and easier to do.

I don't think there's a shortage of people who want to team, but the game's tools need to do a better job of helping you seek teammates or teams. I have no problem with them stealing ideas from other games (LOTORO, COX, WOW whatever), it's not like you can patent a game's LFG/LFM/LFT functions.  icon_cool

I got on a solid team doing the Whitehand Officers in Eiglophian last night, and once we sort of worked out our roles a bit, we did well and had a good time. The xp from it was excellent even though I'd technically out leveled it a bit.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 07:18:28 PM by Blackjack » Logged

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« Reply #350 on: July 02, 2008, 07:20:20 PM »

Quote from: Toe on July 02, 2008, 07:04:21 PM

So when you say grouping is not really needed at all. Needed for what? To level up? I guess if that is what you are trying to say then yes, Blizzard allows you to basically pay to play a single-player game if your goal is to level from 1 to 70 and see a portion of the available content. Don't see anything wrong with that though. ~shrug~.

Easy, partner.

Yes, grouping is not needed to level up.  And I never said there was anything wrong with it.  I was simply stating observations from an average MMO player.

Quote from: Toe on July 02, 2008, 07:04:21 PM

If they could not do that, chances are they would not be playing WoW so you wouldn't be grouping with them regardless. smile

Which is sort of my point.
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« Reply #351 on: July 02, 2008, 07:50:04 PM »

Quote
So when you say grouping is not really needed at all. Needed for what? To level up? I guess if that is what you are trying to say then yes, Blizzard allows you to basically pay to play a single-player game if your goal is to level from 1 to 70 and see a portion of the available content. Don't see anything wrong with that though. ~shrug~. If they could not do that, chances are they would not be playing WoW so you wouldn't be grouping with them regardless.

The "problem" (I put that in quotes because I know some people don't see it as such) is that by giving players an easy solo path from start to finish, you turn group content into a niche endeavor. It becomes the exception, rather than the norm. That's just human nature. If I can go from 1-70 without grouping, chances are I'm going to do it. It's easier, it involves less time, and the end result is the same. Loot is not a powerful enough attraction to overcome that and balance it out.

So what you wind up with is a supposedly massively multiplayer game in which everybody does their own thing by themselves until they hit the end. Then, and only then, do they bother to group in any way, and since they've soloed from 1-70 they don't have the first clue how to group or even how to play their class. For an old schooler like me, I'm horrified. Not only has multiplayer interaction - the whole reason for the existence of MMOs - been relegated to an end game activity, it's produced a population of idiots that don't even know how to use teamwork or play their class properly.

I don't disagree that people who want to solo should have a solo path. But that path should be *harder and longer* than grouping. Period. There should not be an advantage to soloing over grouping. That's where WoW jumped the track and in my opinion screwed MMOs forever. WoW changed the design philosophy of MMOs from "group focused, soloing allowed" to "solo focused, grouping allowed."
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 07:52:59 PM by YellowKing » Logged
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« Reply #352 on: July 02, 2008, 08:43:54 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on July 02, 2008, 07:50:04 PM

Quote
So when you say grouping is not really needed at all. Needed for what? To level up? I guess if that is what you are trying to say then yes, Blizzard allows you to basically pay to play a single-player game if your goal is to level from 1 to 70 and see a portion of the available content. Don't see anything wrong with that though. ~shrug~. If they could not do that, chances are they would not be playing WoW so you wouldn't be grouping with them regardless.

The "problem" (I put that in quotes because I know some people don't see it as such) is that by giving players an easy solo path from start to finish, you turn group content into a niche endeavor. It becomes the exception, rather than the norm. That's just human nature. If I can go from 1-70 without grouping, chances are I'm going to do it. It's easier, it involves less time, and the end result is the same. Loot is not a powerful enough attraction to overcome that and balance it out.

So what you wind up with is a supposedly massively multiplayer game in which everybody does their own thing by themselves until they hit the end. Then, and only then, do they bother to group in any way, and since they've soloed from 1-70 they don't have the first clue how to group or even how to play their class. For an old schooler like me, I'm horrified. Not only has multiplayer interaction - the whole reason for the existence of MMOs - been relegated to an end game activity, it's produced a population of idiots that don't even know how to use teamwork or play their class properly.

I don't disagree that people who want to solo should have a solo path. But that path should be *harder and longer* than grouping. Period. There should not be an advantage to soloing over grouping. That's where WoW jumped the track and in my opinion screwed MMOs forever. WoW changed the design philosophy of MMOs from "group focused, soloing allowed" to "solo focused, grouping allowed."


I think that you are making an assumption that if people were not soloing they would be grouping. I contend that if they were not soloing there is a good chance they would not be playing WoW at all, so the net result is the same. I have leveled up 7 characters to 70th and have grouped a lot and see people looking to group up for various group quests. Maybe there should be more stuff that requires grouping as you level up, but you run the risk of the pool of players drying up for that area as time goes on.

I also disagree that loot is not powerful enough to make people group up. I think it is plenty powerful. There are quests in instances as well as outdoor group quest that yield some loot that is better than anything you are going to get for a long while. One that I can think of off the top of my head since my latest 70 was a tanking paladin was a good +defense trinket. The first one you get is from a rather tough 3-person quest in the Hellfire. The next? It is from a 5-man quest chain in Netherstorm. There are no good tanking trinkets from solo quests. Could I solo from 1 to 70 without it? yeah, I could, but still it is powerful enough to warrant me grouping to get it in both cases.

As far as DPSers go, it is harder leveling up without group quest rewards and instance items. Maybe its not a drastic as you would like it, but it is there none the less.

Lastly, in all honesty, I would not mind if it took longer to level solo, it would make little difference to me as long as I was not forced to "grind exps" which is something I loathe. I am wierd that way. Give me an in-game reason to kill stuff and I am happy. But the instant I am forced to go kill monsters for the sole purpose of getting exps I am not happy.

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« Reply #353 on: July 02, 2008, 08:56:50 PM »

Quote
I think that you are making an assumption that if people were not soloing they would be grouping. I contend that if they were not soloing there is a good chance they would not be playing WoW at all, so the net result is the same.

Here's the reason that the net result is not the same. The problem isn't that people who wouldn't otherwise play WoW just wouldn't play. The problem is that people who would normally play even a group-focused MMO are now soloing *instead* of grouping. While there are certainly some old-schoolers who will continue to group as much as they normally would despite a bigger solo focus, that certainly doesn't hold true for all of them. They're human too, and they're going to take the easiest route from point A to point B.

Quote
I also disagree that loot is not powerful enough to make people group up.

It is powerful enough for *some* people. A very small minority of the total server population. If loot was truly that powerful an incentive, then Age of Conan would be full of groups. Because drop from group mobs in that game is significantly better than solo drops. But guess what? That's simply not the case. I would put money on the fact that folks soling in AoC outnumber folks grouping by probably a 10:1 margin, despite the fact that group zones in that game almost always drop blue or higher gear.

And again, I'm referring more to the effect WoW had on other MMOs, more than WoW itself. WoW created the monster, then reeled it back in slightly by going back and adding more lower level group instances, better itemization, etc. So what holds true for WoW as it stands today does not necessarily hold true for more recent MMOs that were impacted by WoW but have not yet matured.
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« Reply #354 on: July 02, 2008, 09:42:45 PM »

Quote from: Toe on July 02, 2008, 08:43:54 PM

I have leveled up 7 characters to 70th...

From a casual MMO'ers perspective (that would be me), I find this statement alone to be flat out amazing.

Oh how I wish I had the staying power/discipline/attention span, or whatever you want to call it, to do that in any game!
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« Reply #355 on: July 07, 2008, 01:05:58 PM »

So I finally decided to get this...I tend to try almost every MMO...I have EGADD ( Electronic Gaming Attention Deficit Disorder ).  Anyway....the patch is taking FOREVER!!!  Feels like they are using torrent, and there aren't any seeds.
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« Reply #356 on: July 07, 2008, 02:03:14 PM »

Think I'm gonna take a little break from AoC.  Just cancelled but I'll probably check back in after a few months to see how things are going.  I'll be around until my subscription ends on july 20th, though.  I think there's a good game underneath it all but a combination of burnout on MMORPG's in general and my desire to step back from the game until it matures a bit more makes spending the money on it right now less attractive than it should be.
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« Reply #357 on: July 07, 2008, 03:02:44 PM »

I'm about to make my push from 70 to 80 (once I get over the speed bump that seems to be level 69), and I figure I'll hold off on any alts until I do hit 80.  I've put my tradeskill development on hold for now to see what happens with the guild, but at a month and a half I'm still logging in almost everyday for at least a few hours.

It seems like the people who made the crazy 'must get to 80 as soon as possible' push are the ones that burned out quickly (our 2 80's and one or 2 70ish's are MIA), so hopefully I can avoid that in the last 10 levels by taking my time.
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« Reply #358 on: July 07, 2008, 04:11:09 PM »

Blackjackian's at 64 over on Thog.

I'm still having fun. If I enjoy a game's combat mechanics, I can play it for years (that's what kept me in City of Heroes for years, yet COV never really did it for me in that regard).

I am however disappointed that the quest ambitions ballyhooed in numerous interviews (You'll sneak into somewhere to assasinate somebody! You'll engage in a verbal debate! etc.), by the 60s has mostly deteriorated (imho) into "Ew, I'm mad! Go kill 25 Atzel Dopes to make me feel better!" and "Ew! I want vengeance! Go kill a few whozits and I'll be avenged!" For the most part, I don't even get a big Foozle to battle.

It's mostly that and repeating "reward poster" hunt quests ad nauseam if I want to level. Because I enjoy the combat, and I have a fair amount of fun just chatting in my guild channel, I keep moving along. But I miss the more interesting (if not rocket science) quests of earlier areas. I'd be happy if they even just re-did the earlier quests at later levels (free prisoners, set a few huts on fire, etc. etc.).

The few times I run into a quest that's remotely interesting, I'm always thinking, "Why didn't this quest's creators get to do *more*? Why'd they give all the work to the "Go kill 25! Go kill 35! Go kill 12 of these and 18 of those!" guys who should be transferred to the Dungeon Runners team at NCSoft?  disgust

That's just my shallow PvE take on things. I've enjoyed all the Destiny Quest stuff, and only wish there was more of that in the game, and that the meat 'n potatoes PvE quests took more inspiration from the Destiny stuff instead of from, I dunno, Lineage and Dungeon Runners. If they're going to put so many hunt quests in the game, they might as well steal LOTORO's Deeds and Traits stuff, and at least reward you for grinding away at killing 100 Atzel Wardens.
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« Reply #359 on: July 10, 2008, 10:08:20 PM »

I spent about 3 1/2 hours in the, I think it's called, Soldiers' Camp public group instance in Thunder River last night. A Guardian I had teamed with last week had me on his friends list I assume, so he invited me to fill out of his group of L65-69 players.

We had a pretty good time. I liked that all the quests (except maybe one, and you turn it in just outside the entrance) come from NPCs *inside* the instance so there's no fumbling around trying to figure out where to get the quests in there, or where to turn them in.

This tank guy is something of a micro-manager at times but I've gotten comfortable playing alongside him. Towards the end he was actually commending me for my seeming to know intuitively when to use my Goad skill to pull someone off him (when he occasionally drew a 2nd heavy onto him) and when to just be a DPS tool. smile I just don't get to team up often enough to know what to do, so sticking with this team for that long gave me some time to get used to playing that way.

We were all agreed thought that the quest rewards there were a joke (a bow, and then mostly what appeared to be cheap and mostly useless gems). I'm not sure even the gem crafter in the group was excited about them.

And for one brief shining moment I had a shot at an L70, 175 damage 2-hand sword, but I lost the 'roll'...  disgust


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