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Author Topic: Age of Conan - All Your Questions Are Belong to Us!  (Read 76147 times)
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #120 on: March 25, 2008, 02:32:50 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 25, 2008, 12:53:57 AM

Quote from: Lockdown on March 24, 2008, 11:03:48 PM

So I'm curious...

Assuming Age of Conan makes its newest release date, is Warhammer Online scheduled to release anywhere near it as far as timing? 

Has it even been announced or speculated?  Does anyone see these games being released within 3-4 months of each other, or is Warhammer still a long ways out?

IGN says June 10th for Warhammer.

That's the same date that EB/GS is showing and if it's accurate I don't think it's going to be good for either game. 
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« Reply #121 on: March 26, 2008, 02:53:16 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 25, 2008, 02:32:50 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on March 25, 2008, 12:53:57 AM

Quote from: Lockdown on March 24, 2008, 11:03:48 PM

So I'm curious...

Assuming Age of Conan makes its newest release date, is Warhammer Online scheduled to release anywhere near it as far as timing? 

Has it even been announced or speculated?  Does anyone see these games being released within 3-4 months of each other, or is Warhammer still a long ways out?

IGN says June 10th for Warhammer.

That's the same date that EB/GS is showing and if it's accurate I don't think it's going to be good for either game. 

Well, it's a bit odd to quote myself but now that Warhammer Online has been delayed again to a "fall" release it looks like Age of Conan will have the summer to itself. 
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« Reply #122 on: March 26, 2008, 03:26:20 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 26, 2008, 02:53:16 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 25, 2008, 02:32:50 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on March 25, 2008, 12:53:57 AM

Quote from: Lockdown on March 24, 2008, 11:03:48 PM

So I'm curious...

Assuming Age of Conan makes its newest release date, is Warhammer Online scheduled to release anywhere near it as far as timing? 

Has it even been announced or speculated?  Does anyone see these games being released within 3-4 months of each other, or is Warhammer still a long ways out?

IGN says June 10th for Warhammer.

That's the same date that EB/GS is showing and if it's accurate I don't think it's going to be good for either game. 

Well, it's a bit odd to quote myself but now that Warhammer Online has been delayed again to a "fall" release it looks like Age of Conan will have the summer to itself. 

And in my best Martha Stewart voice: "And thats a good thing"...

Seriously though we don't need two well done MMO's tugging at each other for the scraps left over by WoW....
I just wish sometimes that WoW wasn't the success and giant that it is. It must be off-putting for developers to be creating something in the shadow of that behemoth.
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« Reply #123 on: March 29, 2008, 07:35:15 PM »

So, I'm starting to debate what to play.....  I think I'll play a Necromancer (halfway through the video, slightly NSFW).
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« Reply #124 on: March 30, 2008, 01:39:38 PM »

Saw an IGN Age of Conan Vault interview with Funcom's Jason Stone (A U.S. dev team member who moved to Norway to work on the game and has since moved back to the U.S. but continues to work on it and I guess handle some of the press stuff):
http://conanvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Editorials.Detail&id=86

Some things of interest:
Quote
Using iD's "GTK Radiant" level designing tool
Jube: Some time ago I read an interview with Chris Jensen, and was very surprised to find out that you were utilising GTK Radiant, to some extent, in the creation of dungeons. Since Radiant has always been associated with first person shooter level design, I found it quite interesting that you licensed the tool from id Software. Are you still using GTK Radiant? Do you see it as being a tool that you may use for other MMO ventures in the future?

Jason Stone: When it comes to tools, use what is proven, use what your guys feel comfortable with. As it happens we have some guys who had some great experience with designing levels for Quake and so it was natural.

Favorite class
Jason Stone: I tend to like a lot of the melee classes and I think the pole-arm wielding guardian is one of my favorites. I love the long reach and wide sweeps of the weapon.
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« Reply #125 on: March 30, 2008, 04:55:31 PM »

Heh, I read that same interview and thought 90% of it was unintersting and not even related to the game. 
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« Reply #126 on: April 02, 2008, 07:27:29 PM »

So it looks like the beta requires 35GB of free space to install...cripes!  Thankfully my work computer has plenty of space.  Gotta love "personal research".  slywink
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« Reply #127 on: April 02, 2008, 09:19:17 PM »

Downloading now.
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« Reply #128 on: April 02, 2008, 10:53:49 PM »

A bird tells me I must download and install 35gigs to be in the beta  eek
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« Reply #129 on: April 03, 2008, 01:03:22 AM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on April 02, 2008, 07:27:29 PM

So it looks like the beta requires 35GB of free space to install...cripes!  Thankfully my work computer has plenty of space.  Gotta love "personal research".  slywink

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« Reply #130 on: April 03, 2008, 02:03:13 AM »

Well, I didn't even get into the beta.

I also didn't sign up for it, but that's another matter entirely. So Tongue on you all.
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« Reply #131 on: April 03, 2008, 05:43:29 AM »

I'm not allowed to say that I'm in a beta for some game which may or may not be related to this thread.
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« Reply #132 on: April 07, 2008, 03:11:03 PM »

Anyone not have any impressions from the Beta? Not curious if this has potential to be a WoW killer.
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« Reply #133 on: April 07, 2008, 04:51:22 PM »

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Anyone not have any impressions from the Beta? Not curious if this has potential to be a WoW killer.

If I were in the beta, which I can neither confirm nor deny, I would not be allowed to say that I do not think it is a WoW killer. I would also not be allowed to say that I thought the combat was really fun, but that the game was still hampered by class balance issues and bugs, and that I was concerned about the linearity and lack of freedom in the game at least in the early going.

Finally I would not be allowed to say that I am still very much on the fence, but that I am leaning towards *not* purchasing unless there is some significant improvement between now and launch.

But that is all merely speculation, of course.
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« Reply #134 on: April 07, 2008, 05:25:06 PM »

So with that said, which class would you *not* say is more unbalanced class to start with and enjoy while it is still so hotly unbalanced?
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« Reply #135 on: April 07, 2008, 06:25:38 PM »

Not to be a hypothetical wet blanket, but presumably the whole point of NDAs (usually up until an open or "open stress test" beta) is people not badmouthing "works in progress" publicly when they're still balancing and polishing. So I'd recommend limiting even cleverly-worded-hypothetical discussions to PMs (if at all) unless you want the moderators here to get upset. icon_neutral

I don't think we're too far from open beta if it's really going to make that May 19 release. I'd imagine later this month or early May it might open up more, although the devs indicated it will still be a "controlled" open beta and not one where you just download, get a key, and poof.

I've gotten really skewed perceptions of certain games the last couple of years in late betas (because the launch version game was so improved, or they held certain content back for launch), that scared me off at launch and then I got the game later. I'm not sure I'll try so hard to get into early-mid betas so much any more, because I really feel they've given me a wrong impression of the final product (which is another way of saying I'm a sucky beta tester  Tongue).
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« Reply #136 on: April 07, 2008, 06:31:52 PM »

I think they said its delayed till fall.

I think Ill pin all my hopes for a fun MMO on Stargate Worlds.
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« Reply #137 on: April 07, 2008, 06:48:54 PM »

They did delay the technical beta until next weekend.  They are working at fixing a memory leak problem.
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« Reply #138 on: April 07, 2008, 06:51:35 PM »

As far as I know, the game is still due for release May 20th. Where did you hear about the fall delay, Daehawk? (I do know Warhammer was pushed back to fall).

FWIW, I've beta tested over a dozen MMOs. I've learned to spot pretty clearly what games will be ready at launch and which games won't be. The key point I've learned over the years is that the myth that developers are holding back a really advanced version of beta that they only test internally is usually false. Nine times out of 10 what you see in late/open beta is exactly what you're going to get on launch day.

I won't post anymore hypotheticals, but I do want to clarify that it's not badmouthing in any way, shape, or form. It's an honest assessment based on years of MMO testing experience.
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« Reply #139 on: April 07, 2008, 06:59:45 PM »

You're correct YK..I had my AoC mixed up with my WAR. They're so much alike.
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« Reply #140 on: April 07, 2008, 08:19:01 PM »

Funcom has always been under capitalized and understaffed and this leads to a very slow and poorly tested patching process. Don't just take my word for it - go to anarchy-online.com and check the individual patch release dates. Heck go read the Anarchy Online game forums as well.

I don't think Funcom is ready for the major leagues - they just don't have the money for the type of programming and coding talent that SOE, Blizzard and the other big game companies employ. I know FC lost some of its best talent to Blizzard - Marius worked on Shadowlands and headed up the AI expansion before he jumped ship 20+ months ago.

PS: Funcom didn't drop the NDA on the AO expansion Alien Invasion until 1 hour before it went to the live game servers.
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« Reply #141 on: April 08, 2008, 12:47:35 AM »

so, whose hypothetical ass do I have to hypothetically kick to get into the beta?  icon_twisted
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« Reply #142 on: April 08, 2008, 01:12:23 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on April 07, 2008, 06:25:38 PM

Not to be a hypothetical wet blanket, but presumably the whole point of NDAs (usually up until an open or "open stress test" beta) is people not badmouthing "works in progress" publicly when they're still balancing and polishing. So I'd recommend limiting even cleverly-worded-hypothetical discussions to PMs (if at all) unless you want the moderators here to get upset. icon_neutral

I don't think we're too far from open beta if it's really going to make that May 19 release. I'd imagine later this month or early May it might open up more, although the devs indicated it will still be a "controlled" open beta and not one where you just download, get a key, and poof.

I've gotten really skewed perceptions of certain games the last couple of years in late betas (because the launch version game was so improved, or they held certain content back for launch), that scared me off at launch and then I got the game later. I'm not sure I'll try so hard to get into early-mid betas so much any more, because I really feel they've given me a wrong impression of the final product (which is another way of saying I'm a sucky beta tester  Tongue).

You have a point about NDA's but then again the game is so close to launch that I have to ask why they are still keeping things under wraps.  I don't think we have a work in progress this close to launch.  I think we have a product that they should be adding quests to, polishing art assets, and doing minor tuning.

Do you remember Funcom's AO and how it was beta and it was going to be better at launch?  WoW dropped the NDA months before launch and the final beta gave a very good impression of the final product.  The same with LOTRO.  I am noticing a pattern here.  Games who drop the NDA early launch solid and bug free.  Those that don't tend to have huge problems.  Which betas gave you a skewed perception of the final product?

The techincal beta I was in left me unimpressed in that I could not log in.   
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« Reply #143 on: April 08, 2008, 04:07:43 AM »

Well, I can say that participation in betas really skewed my perception towards at least two games: LOTRO and Tabula Rasa. Both of which I now hear good things about. While I ended up playing the release version of LOTRO (and I liked it a lot), I still haven't bought TR.

YK, however, didn't say anything new to be honest. I doubt anyone thought AoC is going to be a WoW killer (I hate this term btw), as for that matter, any game being released any time soon. Nice to know the combat is fun (which was kinda demonstrated by all these videos). Anyone who expects all classes to be balanced and the game to be bug-free on release is delusional. Some say WoW classes are still not balanced (which BTW demonstrates how subjective the balance is) and they were definitely not balanced at release. The same goes for every game (or at least every MMO) ever released.

And I won't even bring up the linearity of the game in the first few levels. Oh wait, I just did smile BTW aren't the first 20 or so levels supposed to be also played in a single player mode? Tough to expect any non-linearity there, as for what it's worth, in any other MMO as well.

If I had a penny for every "the game is not ready" and "don't release the game now if you don't want to ruin it forever" post about WoW beta back when its beta was close to finish...

Now I am not saying the game is going to be perfect or even that it's going to be any good. I don't know, I am not in the beta (I hope their NDA can't forbid me from saying this. lol smile). I am "cautiously optimistic" at the moment and I will be until I try the game myself. I am just saying that YK's post did not contain anything real info and I am even surprised why he posted it. Posting any kind of impressions (and especially vague and negative ones) after just a few levels in beta is silly. No offense, YK.
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« Reply #144 on: April 08, 2008, 04:30:22 AM »

Quote from: StriderGG on April 08, 2008, 04:07:43 AM

Well, I can say that participation in betas really skewed my perception towards at least two games: LOTRO and Tabula Rasa. Both of which I now hear good things about. While I ended up playing the release version of LOTRO (and I liked it a lot), I still haven't bought TR.

YK, however, didn't say anything new to be honest. I doubt anyone thought AoC is going to be a WoW killer (I hate this term btw), as for that matter, any game being released any time soon. Nice to know the combat is fun (which was kinda demonstrated by all these videos). Anyone who expects all classes to be balanced and the game to be bug-free on release is delusional. Some say WoW classes are still not balanced (which BTW demonstrates how subjective the balance is) and they were definitely not balanced at release. The same goes for every game (or at least every MMO) ever released.

And I won't even bring up the linearity of the game in the first few levels. Oh wait, I just did smile BTW aren't the first 20 or so levels supposed to be also played in a single player mode? Tough to expect any non-linearity there, as for what it's worth, in any other MMO as well.

If I had a penny for every "the game is not ready" and "don't release the game now if you don't want to ruin it forever" post about WoW beta back when its beta was close to finish...

Now I am not saying the game is going to be perfect or even that it's going to be any good. I don't know, I am not in the beta (I hope their NDA can't forbid me from saying this. lol smile). I am "cautiously optimistic" at the moment and I will be until I try the game myself. I am just saying that YK's post did not contain anything real info and I am even surprised why he posted it. Posting any kind of impressions (and especially vague and negative ones) after just a few levels in beta is silly. No offense, YK.

WoW and LOTRO were two games that were ready for launch so not every game is 'not ready'.

FWIW I appreciate YK posts.  I like to hear about these things in late beta.  Most of what YK or the little bird is experiencing is going to be the game at release.

Regarding Tabula Rasa:  Many of the good things you hear about TR are from people who have already quit playing it.  TR is really cool in parts but is very linear in the quests and zones with no parallel content(each character will do the exact same quests in the exact same zones in about the same order).  From what I can observe it is not doing well.  It may go the way of Autoduel at some point in the next year.  If you want to try it out, now might be the time.  :-0   TR does have some really cool features (dynamic NPC base defense/assualt where you feel like a part of a huge battle).
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« Reply #145 on: April 08, 2008, 12:13:21 PM »

I probably shouldn't have posted it, but seriously - I didn't post it just to badmouth the game. I've been looking forward to this title ever since it was announced. I've been a huge Conan fan since I was a little kid. I'm not playing any MMOs right now, and I anticipated Age of Conan would be my next subscription. As I said before, I've been in a LOT of MMO betas, so I can tell when a game is on track for a smooth, polished release, and when it is not. I knew the minute I stepped foot in the WoW beta that it was going to be a fantastic launch right away. Same with Lord of the Rings Online. Even though both of those betas had bugs and class balance issues, I knew those were minor shortcomings compared to the level of polish and performance that was apparent even before launch. Another clue are the beta forums - even if you can't max a character in the time you have in beta, you can easily read opinions of other people that have high level characters. I've learned to read between the lines and separate trolling/ignorance of the game mechanics and honest assessments.

I'm sorry if my words disappointed anyone looking forward to the game, but they certainly didn't disappoint anyone more than myself. And hey - we still have a month so my opinion could change. As I said, I'm on the fence, and though I'm leaning one way, I'm definitely not prepared to hop off that fence.



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« Reply #146 on: April 08, 2008, 12:57:26 PM »

Quote
I'm sorry if my words disappointed anyone looking forward to the game, but they certainly didn't disappoint anyone more than myself. And hey - we still have a month so my opinion could change. As I said, I'm on the fence, and though I'm leaning one way, I'm definitely not prepared to hop off that fence.

Damn it. That's a shame.

I agree with you YK, there is that illusive "feeling" you get when you just start the game, it's not based on anything specific, it's just a feeling, between the lines kind of stuff. I also had a good feeling when I just started WoW beta (10 months before the release, hehe) and it sucks to hear that AoC didn't have a similar effect on you. Probably that's what you alluded to when you mentioned "not a WoW killer".

Heh, I'll lower my expectations then, but I still can't wait for May 20th. I also don't have an MMO atm and really need something new and shiny. I am sick of WoW biggrin
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« Reply #147 on: April 08, 2008, 01:22:47 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on April 07, 2008, 06:25:38 PM

Not to be a hypothetical wet blanket, but presumably the whole point of NDAs (usually up until an open or "open stress test" beta) is people not badmouthing "works in progress" publicly when they're still balancing and polishing. So I'd recommend limiting even cleverly-worded-hypothetical discussions to PMs (if at all) unless you want the moderators here to get upset. icon_neutral

I don't think we're too far from open beta if it's really going to make that May 19 release. I'd imagine later this month or early May it might open up more, although the devs indicated it will still be a "controlled" open beta and not one where you just download, get a key, and poof.

I've gotten really skewed perceptions of certain games the last couple of years in late betas (because the launch version game was so improved, or they held certain content back for launch), that scared me off at launch and then I got the game later. I'm not sure I'll try so hard to get into early-mid betas so much any more, because I really feel they've given me a wrong impression of the final product (which is another way of saying I'm a sucky beta tester  Tongue).

Any MMOL developer today knows that beta is no longer just a beta test. A MMOL beta is part beta test and part advertisement. They know a well-received beta test is a huge factor in initial subscribers because they know word-of-mouth on the internet is a powerful force (just like they know NDAs are useless smile). They also know that a crappy beta results in a lot of negative pre-release talk and hurts starting subscriptions. So, with so much importance placed on beta tests nowadays, if a game is not measuring up in the beta, that normally points to significant issues within the game (because the devs know how critical it is and are probably working 24/7 to get beta running well). 
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« Reply #148 on: April 08, 2008, 02:32:19 PM »

I also see a trend developing with gamers these days involving MMO's. Because of the huge success of Wow and how polished and cared for that game was(is) everyone wants to jump into a new MMO with the same level of done-ness. I think WoW is in a league of its own, whether you like it or not. The comparing of every other MMO to Wow is a shame.

When I jump into a nice chevy malibu I'm happy...but If I've driven a mercedes for a year my level of expectation might be a tad too high for the Malibu. Not that the Malibu isn't a good car its just not in the same league as a Mercedes.

I'm not saying we can't get a good feel for a game while its in beta, but we have to start cutting MMO developers some slack. They are fighting against a Beast that isn't showing any signs of giving up its title as number 1.

We just might need to hang in there with a game that shows potential and allow the game to  mature. MMO's are a different beast than other games. When I buy a single-player game I expect the level of done-ness to be near perfect. But when a new MMO hits the servers I tend to be much more forgiving knowing that time really does improve MMO's dramatically.


Just my opinion on the matter. But for someone who loves MMO's more than any other genre I really want to see new games do well.

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« Reply #149 on: April 08, 2008, 02:45:10 PM »

If I could preorder the damned Killer Rhino I'd probably go ahead and bite at this point just because I'm starved for a mmo slywink
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« Reply #150 on: April 08, 2008, 02:46:35 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on April 08, 2008, 02:45:10 PM

If I could preorder the damned Killer Rhino I'd probably go ahead and bite at this point just because I'm starved for a mmo slywink

I think the Best Buy CE is supposed to have the Rhino.  of course you can't use it until you hit level 40.
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« Reply #151 on: April 08, 2008, 03:20:10 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on April 08, 2008, 02:32:19 PM

The comparing of every other MMO to Wow is a shame.

[snip]

When I jump into a nice chevy malibu I'm happy...but If I've driven a mercedes for a year my level of expectation might be a tad too high for the Malibu. Not that the Malibu isn't a good car its just not in the same league as a Mercedes.

Regardless whether you hate the term WoW killer or hate to compare games to WoW, AOC will have to be able to pull players away from WoW. My question was asked because I WANT to be pulled away from WoW. I resubbed just before 2.4 and I'm back on the treadmill again. Playing in the morning and at night, but not raiding again ... yet.

True to Blizzard form, just when you are sick of it, they add yet another carrot to keep people playing. This time its a new area, a new (short but challenging) instances, a new raid, new quests, tons of easy cash, dropping attunements to high level content and 'welfare' (easy to get) epics. This pissed off raiders, but levels the playing fields for the majority. All this with the quality and polish Blizz is famous for.

Some people may be ok going from a Mercedes to a Malibu, but human nature is not to downgrade (especially competitive MMO players). That's why comparisons will be made.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 03:23:10 PM by Jag » Logged
Harkonis
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« Reply #152 on: April 08, 2008, 03:30:32 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 08, 2008, 02:46:35 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on April 08, 2008, 02:45:10 PM

If I could preorder the damned Killer Rhino I'd probably go ahead and bite at this point just because I'm starved for a mmo slywink

I think the Best Buy CE is supposed to have the Rhino.  of course you can't use it until you hit level 40.

And you can't pre-order it yet unless you live in Canada frown
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CeeKay
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« Reply #153 on: April 08, 2008, 03:34:49 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on April 08, 2008, 03:30:32 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 08, 2008, 02:46:35 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on April 08, 2008, 02:45:10 PM

If I could preorder the damned Killer Rhino I'd probably go ahead and bite at this point just because I'm starved for a mmo slywink

I think the Best Buy CE is supposed to have the Rhino.  of course you can't use it until you hit level 40.

And you can't pre-order it yet unless you live in Canada frown

simple solution:  move to Canada  Tongue
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« Reply #154 on: April 08, 2008, 03:58:47 PM »

I know too many GT'rs from Canada, no thanks slywink
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YellowKing
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« Reply #155 on: April 08, 2008, 04:50:40 PM »

I firmly believe that the only MMO that is going to kill WoW is WoW 2. Lord of the Rings Online was probably the most polished MMO at launch I've played other than WoW, it had many of the same game mechanics, AND it had one of the strongest product licenses out there. And as successful as it was, it couldn't even put a dent in WoW's numbers. If it couldn't do it, I'm not sure any game can.

Also, as much as I say I'm leaning one way on AoC, the fact remains it is the only major MMO coming out in the near future other than Warhammer, which I'm not really interested in due to the heavy PvP focus. So I'll probably wind up buying AoC, even though right now my mind says I won't. Do I think it has the capability of being my next "big" MMO (ala EQ2, which I stuck with for 2 1/2 years?) Nope. Do I think it will provide fun enough to get my money's worth for a few months? Probably.

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« Reply #156 on: April 08, 2008, 07:30:15 PM »

Quote
Some people may be ok going from a Mercedes to a Malibu, but human nature is not to downgrade (especially competitive MMO players). That's why comparisons will be made.

Sure, as long comparisons are fair and realistic. WoW did not have a lot of things it has now, some things were added way after release and it includes stuff like new instances, battlegrounds, class revamp, new talents, arena, pvp gear, quests and many many more. It also resolved a lot of the issues it was suffering in the begining, the biggest of which is lag. And I am not even counting the expansion in all this.

Additionally, a lot of WoW's success is coming from markets other then the US, markets that could care less about the  established "western" licenses like LOTRO. IIRC the 2nd most popular MMO is Lineage and AFAIK it has no franchise behind it.

If the game is good, if it's reasonably stable and interesting at release, it will be successful. People tend to get fed up with what they currently have and they do move on to new things, providing these new things are shiny enough.
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« Reply #157 on: April 08, 2008, 08:07:33 PM »

Quote from: Jag on April 08, 2008, 03:20:10 PM

Some people may be ok going from a Mercedes to a Malibu, but human nature is not to downgrade (especially competitive MMO players). That's why comparisons will be made.

To me WoW is more like the Toyota Corolla of MMOs.  It's reliable and accessible to the masses.  A hardcore gamer like myself whose taste is more niche doesn't necessarily want the car that competes with a Corolla.  A Mercedes would be a game like Shadowbane without all the problems.
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Jag
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« Reply #158 on: April 08, 2008, 09:24:48 PM »

Quote from: skystride on April 08, 2008, 08:07:33 PM

Quote from: Jag on April 08, 2008, 03:20:10 PM

Some people may be ok going from a Mercedes to a Malibu, but human nature is not to downgrade (especially competitive MMO players). That's why comparisons will be made.

To me WoW is more like the Toyota Corolla of MMOs.  It's reliable and accessible to the masses.  A hardcore gamer like myself whose taste is more niche doesn't necessarily want the car that competes with a Corolla.  A Mercedes would be a game like Shadowbane without all the problems.

Wasn't my analogy, was just running with it. WoW is accessible to the masses, but at the end game has fairly detailed and complicated game mechanics that the hardcore players can fully immerse themselves in. Just spend a few minutes on the elitistjerks website to see how involved and hardcore this game can get. My guild is hardcore players. I don't see them going anywhere soon.

One facet of WoW's success comes from trying to be all things to all people and accomplishes it just enough to keep them playing. Vanguard was supposed to be the EQ type MMO answer to WoW and all the hardcore WoW players that left for it eventually came back.
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« Reply #159 on: April 08, 2008, 11:00:55 PM »

WoW has all the bases covered in the -Casual-meets-hardcore catagory.

That is its brilliance in my opinion. I grew extremely tired and bored with WoW but that took over 2 years. I have never been on a raid. I've done very limited instances with 5 and 10 man teams.
Yet I played and played for months and months....

We can knock WoW or praise it, the fact of the matter is they created a "perfect storm" when it came to mass appeal.
If a developing company wants a niche market then they should realize that they all wont be members of fortune 500 country clubs.
Niche is niche. Limited and only for a select market.

WoW never tried to be perfect in any one area, yet it did extremely well in the sum total. (PvP can be debated here)

WoW as I said before is in a league of its own. Leave it there. Don't try to de-throne it, create another league contenders can go for customers in.

Anyway, I look forward to the next well done MMO and if I get 3 fun filled months out of it I'm way ahead of the game.
Although I hope it last much longer.
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