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Author Topic: Age of Conan (PVP related)  (Read 4527 times)
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The_Man
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« on: May 29, 2008, 11:51:00 AM »

Just wondering how many of you are playing on the hardcore pvp servers.  I rolled on Doomsayer and I'll have to admit that from what I've seen so far, the ganking is absolutely horrible.  I am actually thinking of rerolling on a pve server.  I'm only level 14, but everytime I go to White Sands or the Underhalls, I get raped as soon as I show up.  Once I rez, I get raped again.  I stood there and watched yesterday as a level 13 killed a level 9, then a level 18 killed the level 13 and then a level 21 killed the level 18.  They would rez and then do it all again.  New people would arrive and they would just kill them as soon as they showed up.

I'm certainly no care bear and have played on WOW pvp servers for 3 years, but killing someone just to be killing them seems senseless to me.  With WOW you have the whole Alliance is evil thing going on so there is some logical reason to kill them.  In this game, people are just killing everyone just to be doing it not thinking about the repurcussions at all.  Yesterday I saw a guy in trouble and it looked like he was going to die to 2 mobs so I went over and helped him kill the two mobs and kept him from dying.  He said thanks and I went on about my business.  Five minutes later I'm engaged with two mobs and the same guy shows up and kills ME! 

I know we're dealing with a lot of kids here, but does this stuff ever get any better?  Right now I'm thinking pve is looking pretty good even though I can't stand the thought of not being able to kill anyone later on.
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Harkonis
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 12:09:06 PM »

We've got about 12 people playing on Cimmeria.

The main key is to not go to White Sands or the Underhalls slywink

You can easily get to 19 and out of Tortage by doing your night quests and exploring the Ruins (which are not pvp enabled).  You'll find far more idiots ganking in Tortage pvp areas than in the rest of the game combined simply because it's easy to make a new character, level it to 20 or so and be an ass with little to no accountability.  Most of the real jerks don't bother levelling up past 22 or so and you'll see the quality of play increase drastically post-tortage.  I've died in pvp 10 times in 50 levels and half of those were in tortage.

It also helps that we're on an RP-PVP server because the community really does do a good job of policing things.  People that gank are often put on server wide KOS lists that mean they don't get to do anything without being ganked themselves and it keeps most people in line.

really the whole key to enjoying playing on a pvp server is to know when to move.  Someone bothering you?  switch instances or at the least switch where you're respawning.  Learn what areas are 'hot' and do you best to avoid them except during off hours.  You can't try normal questing in the war zones and expect to not get jumped, it just won't happen.
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Razgon
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 12:09:24 PM »

Quote from: The_Man on May 29, 2008, 11:51:00 AM

With WOW you have the whole Alliance is evil thing going on so there is some logical reason to kill them. 

We are?  eek

anyways, on topic - I've tried them as well, and as far as I can tell..no, I doesnt get any better...I dont mind PVP, was on Venture CO RP-PVP for 3 years as well, and dont mind pvp'ing, but..this is just silly! I think, the only reasonable way to do it, is to start a group of likeminded people, and then kill back if someone tries to grief you!
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drifter
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 01:59:34 PM »

I am on Cimmeria and did not do any quests on White Sands. I did get everything done in the underhalls. There was a level 20 caster just waiting on White Sands and killing everyone coming in pretty much.  Now that I am out and about in the over level 20 area it has not been bad at all.  I had two people try to kill me in a town (at different times) and I just ran over by a guard so they left me alone.  I did accidentally hit someone when I was closing out chat with an NPC, I apologized and the guy said be more careful.
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msduncan
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 01:22:46 AM »

I've got the game.

I've created a character on Cimmeria.

Plainsrunner -- Priest.

Hark and company -- how do I get in touch with you?  Do you have a TS or vent server going?
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Toe
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 12:18:14 PM »

http://www.videosift.com/video/AoC-Good-times-with-a-horse
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YellowKing
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 02:32:34 PM »

Quote
I did accidentally hit someone when I was closing out chat with an NPC, I apologized and the guy said be more careful.

I would have killed him for telling me to be more careful on a freaking PvP server.
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Fuzzballx
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 02:58:40 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on June 05, 2008, 01:22:46 AM

I've got the game.

I've created a character on Cimmeria.

Plainsrunner -- Priest.

Hark and company -- how do I get in touch with you?  Do you have a TS or vent server going?

Yep, vent server.  info is on www.harkonis.com forums.  Sign up there as msduncan if you havn't yet and hark should add you to the group to see it.
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Tals
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2008, 06:44:31 AM »

Quote from: Toe on June 05, 2008, 12:18:14 PM


That video is great! Very funny
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2008, 06:49:28 PM »

I created my main characte on the PVP server Deathwhisper since a co-worker was starting on there, too.  I soon rediscovered why I hate free-for-all PVP.  I was ganked many times in the underhalls or White Sands Isle when I was very weakened right after defeating a boss or group of enemies. 

Apparently that is also the server with the forum crowd from Something Awful, which may have lead it to be even more dickish than regular PVP servers.  Either way, I'm going back to PVE for now.

Maybe with the forthcoming jail system it will help, but that seems more designed only for killing those who are 10+ levels below you. 
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Blackjack
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 03:01:58 PM »

Funcom's announcement about upcoming Updates work is pretty PVP-focused (and a bit guild-focused too) so I thought I'd put it here rather than start thread #27  icon_neutral
Quote
Without further ado, here are some of the cool things to expect in the months to come:

PvP evolved – To the Death
The great combat system in Age of Conan has taken MMO fighting to a new level of fun, and Player versus Player combat plays a major part in this. As a result, a massive new PvP update is planned for late June. Aptly called To the death, this update brings more consequence and rewards to PvP, and an important part of it is the Fugitive system. The more lower level players you kill, the easier it is for others to hunt you down. In addition, ten PvP levels with additional ranks will be introduced, as well as specific gear and weapons for PvP.

Guild Alliance Warfare
Preproduction has started on a MASSIVE free update which will come later this year. Currently titled “Kingship!”, large clusters of guilds will be able to form alliances, and rule and conquer on a massive scale. Everyone in a guild alliance will play a part in this system, and together they can even erect unique looking alliance Battlekeeps. The alliances can also fight over, and build, culture-specific “wonders of the world”, with a direct link to higher powers! As part of the system Funcom will also facilitate larger amounts of players in massive battles.

Powerpoints
This fall, a unique reward and character evolution system called Powerpoints will be introduced. This rewards active in-game behavior, and allows for gathering points through numerous methods, including owning a Battlekeep, playing the end-game at level 80, winning PvP matches, or simply being an active guild member or subscribing to the game. There will be many ways to obtain Powerpoints, and numerous rewards, ranging from exclusive Powerfeats to weapons, armor and potions. Powerpoints may even allow you to level faster!
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CeeKay
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 03:18:41 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on June 13, 2008, 03:01:58 PM

Powerpoints
This fall, a unique reward and character evolution system called Powerpoints will be introduced. This rewards active in-game behavior, and allows for gathering points through numerous methods, including owning a Battlekeep, playing the end-game at level 80, winning PvP matches, or simply being an active guild member or subscribing to the game. There will be many ways to obtain Powerpoints, and numerous rewards, ranging from exclusive Powerfeats to weapons, armor and potions. Powerpoints may even allow you to level faster!


so we can get all the people in the guild together with their stuff gained from this and have a Powerpoint presentation?
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YellowKing
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 03:50:20 PM »

Boooo!    icon_biggrin

The powerpoints thing sounds an awful lot like the Xbox 360-esque achievements that WoW is rumored to be putting in with the Lich King expansion.
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rittchard
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 04:45:34 PM »

Nice, I want Powerfeet!!!

Not that I'm unhappy they are looking at new content, but shouldn't they, ummm, get the main cities, battlekeeps, forts, etc working first?  Or have they just abandoned all that lol?
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 05:22:09 PM »

Sounds good, though I don't appreciate how they've changed their original 20 PvP levels down to 10 - because it's just another bait and switch as that was a pretty big incentive to do PvP in the first place.

Also, the powerpoints have the potential to suck majorly - but then again they can also be very nice. It's really about how they do them, and what kind of rewards are in place for what kind of effort.

But otherwise it SOUNDS nice, but so did the game as advertised.
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2008, 05:41:19 PM »

http://funcom.cachefly.net/WebFiles/Newsletter/Issue17/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Clan_of_Conan&utm_content=issue17

Well, after reading the above and being rather negative about AoC since launch, I have to say:

GREAT NEWS

smile

If they actually do all that within a reasonable time frame, I'm seeing great things for this game. I'm turning into a fan once more smile

But let's see how much of it will actually make it in - in a functional state.
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StriderGG
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2008, 06:38:44 PM »

Nice link, DArtagnan!

But you are right, all this talk about new and fixed content is nice, but I will believe it when I see it in the game. And it's working. And it doesn't break other parts of the game.
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Razgon
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2008, 10:27:36 PM »

indeed, impressive list of things to come, thanks for the link...

only thing is..make the game work first? I mean...stats not working? how did that pass unnoticed???
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Arclight
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2008, 11:07:26 AM »

Ok I took a break from AoC a week or so ago. Don't gasp but I've never rolled up a character on a PvP server in any MMO.
But its time I tried it I think.

My main reason for not being interested before was how annoying it sounded. Trying to do quests getting killed by someone who is levels higher than you...that just didn't sound like fun.

But...I'm willing to see if Aoc is worth the effort in PvP.

Help me transition to this game style.

Is there a class in this game that seems best suited for PvP play and also questing and leveling?

I've played to the early 30's three classes......Guardian, Assassin, and Barbarian.

Any suggestions as to what class I should start on a PvP server?
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Harkonis
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2008, 11:16:13 AM »

Quote from: Arclight on June 17, 2008, 11:07:26 AM

Ok I took a break from AoC a week or so ago. Don't gasp but I've never rolled up a character on a PvP server in any MMO.
But its time I tried it I think.

My main reason for not being interested before was how annoying it sounded. Trying to do quests getting killed by someone who is levels higher than you...that just didn't sound like fun.

But...I'm willing to see if Aoc is worth the effort in PvP.

Help me transition to this game style.

Is there a class in this game that seems best suited for PvP play and also questing and leveling?

I've played to the early 30's three classes......Guardian, Assassin, and Barbarian.

Any suggestions as to what class I should start on a PvP server?

At this stage, pvp in AoC is pretty irritating to me, but I'm an assassin slywink

Ranged abilities will help you greatly.

Keep in mind that until they change some things, there's no point to pvp on any of the servers though.
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Arclight
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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2008, 11:24:25 AM »

Quote from: Harkonis on June 17, 2008, 11:16:13 AM

Quote from: Arclight on June 17, 2008, 11:07:26 AM

Ok I took a break from AoC a week or so ago. Don't gasp but I've never rolled up a character on a PvP server in any MMO.
But its time I tried it I think.

My main reason for not being interested before was how annoying it sounded. Trying to do quests getting killed by someone who is levels higher than you...that just didn't sound like fun.

But...I'm willing to see if Aoc is worth the effort in PvP.

Help me transition to this game style.

Is there a class in this game that seems best suited for PvP play and also questing and leveling?

I've played to the early 30's three classes......Guardian, Assassin, and Barbarian.

Any suggestions as to what class I should start on a PvP server?

At this stage, pvp in AoC is pretty irritating to me, but I'm an assassin slywink

Ranged abilities will help you greatly.

Keep in mind that until they change some things, there's no point to pvp on any of the servers though.

Thanks, thats all I needed to know.. icon_eek
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Razgon
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 12:21:44 PM »

According to FC, June will revolutionize PVP in Age of Conan...ahem..*cough*...which, is what the game was sold to millions on already, oh well...

interestingly enough, the AoC uk website still hype all the things supposed to be in the game, but, at the end of June, PvP will be completely revamped

to the hype:
http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/conan/frontend.cgi?func=publish.show&func_id=1094&table=PUBLISH&template=news_features_game&selected=1094
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StriderGG
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2008, 02:21:01 PM »

Quote
Is there a class in this game that seems best suited for PvP play and also questing and leveling?

To answer your question, Ranger, PoM, ToS and BS (as a distant 4th, if I understand it correctly) are seem to be in a better shape PvP-wise AT THE MOMENT. On the other hand, Necro, Demo and Assassin are on the opposite side of things. The remaining 5 classes are somewhere in between.

This can change any time though.

Quote
interestingly enough, the AoC uk website still hype all the things supposed to be in the game...

I found it funny that one of the latest PC Gamer's headlines for AoC was ... DirectX 10 graphics. smile
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2008, 03:24:21 PM »

Quote from: StriderGG on June 17, 2008, 02:21:01 PM

Quote
Is there a class in this game that seems best suited for PvP play and also questing and leveling?

To answer your question, Ranger, PoM, ToS and BS (as a distant 4th, if I understand it correctly) are seem to be in a better shape PvP-wise AT THE MOMENT. On the other hand, Necro, Demo and Assassin are on the opposite side of things. The remaining 5 classes are somewhere in between.

This can change any time though.

haven't fired up my PoM alt yet, but I hear the lower level ones got nerfed hard yesterday.
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Jarrodhk
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 04:38:57 PM »

I'm not a huge Pvp person (or MMO person for that matter), but I was having some fun when grouping until I realized that there is literally no point, no reason, to pvp in the game at the moment.

They may change things, but I think I've finally (again) realized that MMO's are just not a genre that I can enjoy for very long at all.

Of course there have been VERY few games of any genre that hold my interest for very long so take that for what it is worth.   icon_razz
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YellowKing
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 04:51:49 PM »

Quote
I'm not a huge Pvp person (or MMO person for that matter), but I was having some fun when grouping until I realized that there is literally no point, no reason, to pvp in the game at the moment.

Just depends on your point of view. A friend of mine is playing on a PvP server and last night and his group got jumped by another group. They ended up surviving against 4-6 odds, then ended up in a prolonged "war" as the group tried to get revenge. He said it was the most fun he's had in an MMO in a long time.

If you enjoy that sort of excitement and spontaneity, then the only point there needs to be is having fun. There's got to be a reason why most AoC players are playing on PvP servers (this straight from the devs!)


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YellowKing
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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2008, 05:14:59 PM »

Quote
To answer your question, Ranger, PoM, ToS and BS (as a distant 4th, if I understand it correctly) are seem to be in a better shape PvP-wise AT THE MOMENT. On the other hand, Necro, Demo and Assassin are on the opposite side of things. The remaining 5 classes are somewhere in between.

This also depends on whether you're talking about solo or in group. Solo PvP necros aren't considered that great. Put them in a group, however, and their AOE damage can be devastating.
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2008, 05:17:33 PM »

I think the reason so many rolled on PvP servers was that Funcom advertised PvP as a major and meaningful feature - and not to gank randomly without any kind of system in place.

That said, it seems we'll be seeing a system by the end of june - and a pretty cool one at that. I'm very happy it's the first major thing they're working on - even though it should have been in at release.

Oh, and YellowKing, what are you doing playing AoC - which is more casual in every way than WoW - which was already way too casual in contrast with the old greats?

I guess we change with time smile

Just teasing, though it IS interesting considering how much crap WoW got for being too lenient with stuff like death penalties and level curves. Especially from the pro-Vanguard crowd.

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rittchard
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« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2008, 05:33:11 PM »

Quote from: DArtagnan on June 17, 2008, 05:17:33 PM

I think the reason so many rolled on PvP servers was that Funcom advertised PvP as a major and meaningful feature - and not to gank randomly without any kind of system in place.

Not to belabor this point as I already made it elsewhere, but I think this was always a "wishful thinking" scenario from a lot of "hardcore" PvP players who are/were dreaming for the second coming of SB.  Prior to choosing a server, I did a ton of searching for every tidbit on PvP and the PvP servers.  Every bit of pre-release info was vague, particularly regarding the servers.  By the time NDA was released, we had multiple accounts from beta testers saying exactly that there was no PvP ruleset in place, so in all honesty there shouldn't have been any surprise from anyone who frequents these boards.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2008, 05:59:09 PM »

Quote
Oh, and YellowKing, what are you doing playing AoC - which is more casual in every way than WoW - which was already way too casual in contrast with the old greats?

I've come to accept that the old MMOs are gone and they're likely not coming back. So I really have no alternative. Right now the only two major MMOs I'd consider more hardcore than WoW/AoC are EQ2 (but only slightly), and Vanguard. I already did 2 years with EQ2 and am pretty much finished with that game, and Vanguard doesn't have enough population or a solid enough future to keep me interested.

I'm not the type that can stop playing MMOs just because they don't fit my perfect vision of what an MMO should be. My gamer blood runs too thick for that.  icon_biggrin

I am going to roll up a PvP alt tonight, however. The fast-leveling and easiness of Conan's PvE has got me a little bored. My buddy has a small PvP guild going on Shadowblade and has been having a blast, so I'm going to mess around with it a bit.
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2008, 06:21:30 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 17, 2008, 05:33:11 PM

Quote from: DArtagnan on June 17, 2008, 05:17:33 PM

I think the reason so many rolled on PvP servers was that Funcom advertised PvP as a major and meaningful feature - and not to gank randomly without any kind of system in place.

Not to belabor this point as I already made it elsewhere, but I think this was always a "wishful thinking" scenario from a lot of "hardcore" PvP players who are/were dreaming for the second coming of SB.  Prior to choosing a server, I did a ton of searching for every tidbit on PvP and the PvP servers.  Every bit of pre-release info was vague, particularly regarding the servers.  By the time NDA was released, we had multiple accounts from beta testers saying exactly that there was no PvP ruleset in place, so in all honesty there shouldn't have been any surprise from anyone who frequents these boards.

I can't speak for anyone but myself - but my personal desire was just a system to make PvP meaningful. Nothing fancy, but instead pretty much what they advertised and which was partially enabled in beta. The system they've announced for end of june - which is the same system with the fugitive thing on top of it, is more than enough and I'm happy with that.

I don't think it's fair to say that I should have expected nothing at release - as there was NOTHING to indicate they'd actually disable PvP levelling. I was in open beta, and as far as I know NDA for closed beta is still in effect - or at least it was post launch.

So no, in my case it wasn't wishful thinking beyond getting something resembling what they already had in place in beta.
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StriderGG
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« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2008, 06:42:10 PM »

I was/am thinking about rolling a PvP toon from time to time, but then I hear a story that turns me off.

My friend was leveling his ranger yesterday and got jumped by another ranger 2 levels higher than him. He dies at first, comes back, gets jumped again and kills the guy this time. The guy comes back, jumps him again and my friend kills him again. Sounds like fun so far. Next, the guy comes with a friend and kills my friend a few times, forcing him to give up the spot/zone and leave.

I just don't see myself having fun in these situations. IMO there is absolutely no point in playing on PvP server if you are planning to solo a considerable amount of time. Duoing should be more fun though.

That's just me though, everyone's different.
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StriderGG
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« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2008, 06:54:50 PM »

Quote
I can't speak for anyone but myself - but my personal desire was just a system to make PvP meaningful. Nothing fancy, but instead pretty much what they advertised and which was partially enabled in beta. The system they've announced for end of june - which is the same system with the fugitive thing on top of it, is more than enough and I'm happy with that.

I see this term - "meaningful (or meaningless) PvP" - thrown around a lot, but I really don't understand it. What kind of a meaning people expect from PvP?

Is it about the 20 PvP levels? But then it becomes just a meaningless PvP grind. There was a PvP grind in WoW and people still said the PvP was meaningless there. And does PvP lose its meaning once you are lvl 20 in PvP?

Is it elimination of "unfair" ganking? Hordes of PvP players both in WoW and in AoC loudly complain against these kinds of systems, stating that the whole point of FFA PvP is the "FFA" part.

I see a meaning in Siege PvP or RvR PvP, but you don't have to play on FFA PvP to have this.

So that's a "meaningful PvP?"
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SkyLander
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« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2008, 07:20:20 PM »

HOG dude checkin' in. I have a ranger on Deathwhisper. PVP is fast and furious and when you get out of Tortage learn to use hide well. Basically you see someone just slam H and move to somewhere else and size up who is running around you. So invest a lot of att points into hide and the other things.

Anyone that has range has an advantage now until they add the stun to charge. Until then if you are a pure melee guy, find a pretty good bow or I think there are throwing weapons that you can use and put that in as your alt set if you plan to hunt down people. And PVP right in AOC is meaningless.

And by meaningless you gain nothing and you lose nothing from it. It is mindless ganking just to piss people off. Which I hate, it is griefing. I don't PVP unless someone attacks me first. When PVP xp is added it will add a bit of meaning to it, going in and attacking a battlekeep to take it adds meaning. WoW PVP and just about every other games PVP besides EVE and Shadowbane is meaningless. Grinding arena and battlegrounds to get your next seaons armor is useless to me. So the direction Conan is going with PVP, I have hope.
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DArtagnan
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« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2008, 07:39:45 PM »

Quote from: StriderGG on June 17, 2008, 06:54:50 PM

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I can't speak for anyone but myself - but my personal desire was just a system to make PvP meaningful. Nothing fancy, but instead pretty much what they advertised and which was partially enabled in beta. The system they've announced for end of june - which is the same system with the fugitive thing on top of it, is more than enough and I'm happy with that.

I see this term - "meaningful (or meaningless) PvP" - thrown around a lot, but I really don't understand it. What kind of a meaning people expect from PvP?

Is it about the 20 PvP levels? But then it becomes just a meaningless PvP grind. There was a PvP grind in WoW and people still said the PvP was meaningless there. And does PvP lose its meaning once you are lvl 20 in PvP?

Is it elimination of "unfair" ganking? Hordes of PvP players both in WoW and in AoC loudly complain against these kinds of systems, stating that the whole point of FFA PvP is the "FFA" part.

I see a meaning in Siege PvP or RvR PvP, but you don't have to play on FFA PvP to have this.

So that's a "meaningful PvP?"

I'm not really sure what kind of answer you're looking for.

When I say meaningful PvP, I'm NOT talking about PvP that would be meaningful for everyone - only to myself. Obviously only you yourself can know what you would find meaningful. It's key to appreciate that tastes differ when talking about this stuff.

To me, it simply means that there's a sense of purpose to doing PvP - and especially to doing PvP well. In beta, you had to kill 3 people for each death to keep even, which meant you had to have a sense of what you were doing to advance in the PvP levels. In effect, if you manage to get to 20 with this kind of system, it means you're probably pretty good at it.

That's meaningful to me - but not necessarily in a wholesome manner that would make everything perfect. No, it would simply be an incentive to do open world PvP and get good at it- which makes the whole thing a LOT more fun for someone like myself, who enjoys a sense of purpose. Maybe there are some out there who think that NO system and NO rewards is the right way to handle an open world PvP system, but I'm most certainly not among them.

As far as more advanced systems are concerned, it sounds as if they're planning to implement a lot of neat stuff - including guild battles and what not, which all sounds terrific and potentially very meaningful.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 07:45:45 PM by DArtagnan » Logged
YellowKing
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« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2008, 08:02:05 PM »

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I just don't see myself having fun in these situations. IMO there is absolutely no point in playing on PvP server if you are planning to solo a considerable amount of time. Duoing should be more fun though.

Yeah, I wouldn't even consider it without knowing I had friends to back me up. My buddy's guild has a neat philosophy - they've basically taken the stance that they will never kill anyone unprovoked. So they go about their business doing quests, etc. like a normal PvE group. However, any person or guild that ganks them or in general acts like jerks gets put on a master "Killed On Sight" list. Those people are fair game any time, anywhere. The thing I really like about them is that there is a sense of camaraderie - if someone is getting ganked or harassed, the guild members that are on will pretty much drop everything to lend assistance.

I think with a close-knit group like that, PvP could be seriously fun.

Also, I want to throw something out there on why I think PvP is so popular in AoC: player skill actually makes a difference. I know that player skill (in terms of knowing your character) has always made some difference in previous MMOs, but Conan's combat system makes reflexes and combat strategy important as well. In past MMOs, I can't think of many cases where someone could take out somebody 20 levels higher than them. In AoC it's entirely possible.
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Harkonis
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« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2008, 08:32:02 PM »

Quote from: StriderGG on June 17, 2008, 06:54:50 PM

Quote
I can't speak for anyone but myself - but my personal desire was just a system to make PvP meaningful. Nothing fancy, but instead pretty much what they advertised and which was partially enabled in beta. The system they've announced for end of june - which is the same system with the fugitive thing on top of it, is more than enough and I'm happy with that.

I see this term - "meaningful (or meaningless) PvP" - thrown around a lot, but I really don't understand it. What kind of a meaning people expect from PvP?

Is it about the 20 PvP levels? But then it becomes just a meaningless PvP grind. There was a PvP grind in WoW and people still said the PvP was meaningless there. And does PvP lose its meaning once you are lvl 20 in PvP?

Is it elimination of "unfair" ganking? Hordes of PvP players both in WoW and in AoC loudly complain against these kinds of systems, stating that the whole point of FFA PvP is the "FFA" part.

I see a meaning in Siege PvP or RvR PvP, but you don't have to play on FFA PvP to have this.

So that's a "meaningful PvP?"

For me in order for pvp to be meaningful you need both a goal to fight for (which WAR should have with the realm war aspect and the way the keeps and control of zones works) and you have to have accountability.  In AoC there is absolutely zero accountability in pvp.  If you die, you lose nothing.  If I get jumped by someone and have an 'amazing' battle and barely win against insurmountable odds, so what, they'll be back in about 20-30 seconds (or the first guy I killed will be back and start fighting me again while I fight the second and third).  Then if they kill me, so what, I'll be back in 30 seconds or so and I'll start fighting again.  Fights in AoC can literally go on forever because there is nothing you're losing.  There's no incentive to fight, but there's also no incentive to not fight.  There's no reason to be cautious and this is leading to some people just standing there if you are fighting them, they don't fight back because you aren't costing them anything.  It also leads to people that just continually harass knowing they will lose but they are costing you time in dealing with them instead of what you were trying to do.  It's really the worst of allt he systems. 

AoC WAS touted as having good endgame siege pvp and it's right there on the box.  IT simply doesn't exist in the game.  In addition to all the other complaints, apparently once you get a battlekeep up and running, you can't attack another battlekeep.  You can only attack a battlekeep if you have the ability to have a battlekeep but don't have one.  This means that eventually all the big guilds will have battlekeeps and won't be able to fight each other.  Pretty retarded.  Once you build a keep you can only do defenses and only against lesser guilds that don't have keeps already. 

It's really just a shame, not only are things not near a retail state regarding the programming and patching, but they aren't even at a retail state in the design process and still don't even know how they want things to be.  They haven't thought the game out to the end yet.

Another misc bug that I thought was amusing in how bad it was:  Some guy rolled a 0 on a Need roll, the item was given to a guy in the group who rolled Greed and when a GM was contacted he said that's how it works because the Greed guy rolled higher. O_o
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StriderGG
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« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2008, 08:50:14 PM »

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So that's a "meaningful PvP?"

Sorry for a typo, obviously it was meant as a question - So what's a "meaningful PvP?"

Quite a few responses there, thank you guys. I didn't have time to read them - gotta run home, but I will later on!
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StriderGG
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« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2008, 03:25:21 PM »

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In addition to all the other complaints, apparently once you get a battlekeep up and running, you can't attack another battlekeep.  You can only attack a battlekeep if you have the ability to have a battlekeep but don't have one.  This means that eventually all the big guilds will have battlekeeps and won't be able to fight each other.  Pretty retarded.  Once you build a keep you can only do defenses and only against lesser guilds that don't have keeps already.

That's not how it works (or going to work) according to what I've read about it.

A guild that already has a BK will still be able to initiate a siege and destroy the enemy's BK (or rather the buildings inside of it), they will not be able to conquer it though and have 2 BKs.

So while the system will allow to initiate a siege if you already have a BK, it doesn't, however, (as far as I know) provide an insentive to do that. Other than the bragging rights and affecting the opposite guild's BK upgrading progress (which still doesn't benefit the invading army directly).

Also I did not see any consequences for the invading guild in case if they lose the siege. In a siege, a defending guild has everything to lose, but nothing to gain, while the invading guild has everything to gain (if they don't have a BK already), but nothing to lose (except time). IMO this is not right and somewhat relates to what Harkonis was saying about 1v1 PvP.
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« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2008, 04:01:15 PM »

so, I made a toon on Cimmeria last night, spent about 5 minutes reading the general chat, felt my IQ drop and promptly deleted the toon.  I thought it was supposed to be an RP PvP server but it felt I had logged into a public game on XBL.
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