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Author Topic: After retrying various MMOs, I find Vanguard is now REALLY actually playable  (Read 9819 times)
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Hotfreak
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« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2011, 03:34:09 PM »

I popped into this and grabbed my 45 days.  I had forgotten what a great pve game this is.  The minigames for crafting and diplomacy are very well done.  The character classes are distinct and interesting -- Bards assemble their own buff songs!  The world is huge, multi-faceted and dangerous.  No instances.  You can see for miles (/setfog 9999999).  The macroing system is solid and useful.   Combat can be both challenging and make you feel incredibly powerful.  There seems to be no end to content.  An explorer's dream.

I also love the attempts to give it a rich, old school rpg feel (D&D-like at times).  You'll notice this when you talk to NPCs -- great dialogue, rich story -- and move through the world -- each new area gives you some text description of your characters feelings towards it, ("a chill runs up your spine as you move into the murky marsh").  VG is very colorful textually.

Of course, it has none of the QoVL (quality of virtual life) upgrades from the WoW generation which can make it bewildering and annoying at times.  The maps don't show much, for example.  The terrain can be VERY flat and uninteresting at times (though the views are great).  Quest descriptions can be vague, requiring you to tramp around for ages finding the right spot.  You leave belongings on your corpse when you die and lose xp.  Leveling is much slower than we've grown used to with offerings such as WoW, AoC and Rift.  Combat feedback can be sluggish and lack viscerality.  Sometimes I'm reminded of Galaxies when I kill something and it hangs there for a couple of seconds before turning into a corpse.

I wish more people played VG.  Some of the most interesting content requires groups and it's hard to find them right now with such a low pop
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Abaddon
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« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2011, 01:26:47 AM »

Quote from: Hotfreak on May 27, 2011, 03:34:09 PM

I popped into this and grabbed my 45 days.  I had forgotten what a great pve game this is.  The minigames for crafting and diplomacy are very well done.  The character classes are distinct and interesting -- Bards assemble their own buff songs!  The world is huge, multi-faceted and dangerous.  No instances.  You can see for miles (/setfog 9999999).  The macroing system is solid and useful.   Combat can be both challenging and make you feel incredibly powerful.  There seems to be no end to content.  An explorer's dream.

I also love the attempts to give it a rich, old school rpg feel (D&D-like at times).  You'll notice this when you talk to NPCs -- great dialogue, rich story -- and move through the world -- each new area gives you some text description of your characters feelings towards it, ("a chill runs up your spine as you move into the murky marsh").  VG is very colorful textually.

Of course, it has none of the QoVL (quality of virtual life) upgrades from the WoW generation which can make it bewildering and annoying at times.  The maps don't show much, for example.  The terrain can be VERY flat and uninteresting at times (though the views are great).  Quest descriptions can be vague, requiring you to tramp around for ages finding the right spot.  You leave belongings on your corpse when you die and lose xp.  Leveling is much slower than we've grown used to with offerings such as WoW, AoC and Rift.  Combat feedback can be sluggish and lack viscerality.  Sometimes I'm reminded of Galaxies when I kill something and it hangs there for a couple of seconds before turning into a corpse.

I wish more people played VG.  Some of the most interesting content requires groups and it's hard to find them right now with such a low pop
I fired this up as well for the free 45 day period. While I do think VG can be a fun game I wasn't quite as glowing in my opinion as Hotfreak. While all of his statements are true the niggling issues really start to lump together for me. Some are minor annoyances like zoning while traveling across the landscape others can be downright fustrating in todays world of MMO's. Had a quest location on the map which "as the crow flys" was fairly close, due to terrain restrictions it took me a good 20 minutes of real time traveling to get there, died about 10 minutes after arriving and respawned back on the opposite side of the mountain range again which meant another 20 minute run to retrieve my corpse and the huge chunk of XP I lost for the death.
Speaking of death's, having not played the game in a while I chose to start out on what I thought would be some easier targets. I was fighting mobs 6 to 7 levels lower than my character and they were kicking the crap out of me. I did not realize at first that even though they were trouncing me they were too low level to gain XP from and after several deaths in my frist 2 hours of play I went from 87% in to my current level to 72%.
I've fallen through the world a few times, gotten stuck moving up and down steps (this seems to be a particular problem for some reason), had a few CTD which kept wiping out my custom UI changes and resetting everything to default etc. etc.
Now to be fair I've been playing solo the whole time and I definitely think solo play sort of puts minor issues under a microsope at times, I do think being in a group would sort of gloss over some of the issues as your engaged in conversation, banter and what not.
I would definitely be interested in getting a group together, for those playing as well, Im bouncing between a few characters all in the low to mid 20's, you can stick Jiunfan, Ythgar and Zarixx on your friends list. If anyone wants to post their character names I will also put them on mine.
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ericb
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« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2011, 02:29:01 AM »

Quote from: Abaddon on May 28, 2011, 01:26:47 AM

Quote from: Hotfreak on May 27, 2011, 03:34:09 PM

I popped into this and grabbed my 45 days.  I had forgotten what a great pve game this is.  The minigames for crafting and diplomacy are very well done.  The character classes are distinct and interesting -- Bards assemble their own buff songs!  The world is huge, multi-faceted and dangerous.  No instances.  You can see for miles (/setfog 9999999).  The macroing system is solid and useful.   Combat can be both challenging and make you feel incredibly powerful.  There seems to be no end to content.  An explorer's dream.

I also love the attempts to give it a rich, old school rpg feel (D&D-like at times).  You'll notice this when you talk to NPCs -- great dialogue, rich story -- and move through the world -- each new area gives you some text description of your characters feelings towards it, ("a chill runs up your spine as you move into the murky marsh").  VG is very colorful textually.

Of course, it has none of the QoVL (quality of virtual life) upgrades from the WoW generation which can make it bewildering and annoying at times.  The maps don't show much, for example.  The terrain can be VERY flat and uninteresting at times (though the views are great).  Quest descriptions can be vague, requiring you to tramp around for ages finding the right spot.  You leave belongings on your corpse when you die and lose xp.  Leveling is much slower than we've grown used to with offerings such as WoW, AoC and Rift.  Combat feedback can be sluggish and lack viscerality.  Sometimes I'm reminded of Galaxies when I kill something and it hangs there for a couple of seconds before turning into a corpse.

I wish more people played VG.  Some of the most interesting content requires groups and it's hard to find them right now with such a low pop
I fired this up as well for the free 45 day period. While I do think VG can be a fun game I wasn't quite as glowing in my opinion as Hotfreak. While all of his statements are true the niggling issues really start to lump together for me. Some are minor annoyances like zoning while traveling across the landscape others can be downright fustrating in todays world of MMO's. Had a quest location on the map which "as the crow flys" was fairly close, due to terrain restrictions it took me a good 20 minutes of real time traveling to get there, died about 10 minutes after arriving and respawned back on the opposite side of the mountain range again which meant another 20 minute run to retrieve my corpse and the huge chunk of XP I lost for the death.
Speaking of death's, having not played the game in a while I chose to start out on what I thought would be some easier targets. I was fighting mobs 6 to 7 levels lower than my character and they were kicking the crap out of me. I did not realize at first that even though they were trouncing me they were too low level to gain XP from and after several deaths in my frist 2 hours of play I went from 87% in to my current level to 72%.
I've fallen through the world a few times, gotten stuck moving up and down steps (this seems to be a particular problem for some reason), had a few CTD which kept wiping out my custom UI changes and resetting everything to default etc. etc.
Now to be fair I've been playing solo the whole time and I definitely think solo play sort of puts minor issues under a microsope at times, I do think being in a group would sort of gloss over some of the issues as your engaged in conversation, banter and what not.
I would definitely be interested in getting a group together, for those playing as well, Im bouncing between a few characters all in the low to mid 20's, you can stick Jiunfan, Ythgar and Zarixx on your friends list. If anyone wants to post their character names I will also put them on mine.

Vanguard still has some "hardcore" elements to it like the mob difficulty, death penalty and not being solo friendly (which is why it was supposed to be the true EQ2 when it came out).  The problem is many (maybe most) people playing MMOs now have gotten used to the new MMO like WoW, Rift or even the modern EQ2 with quest mapping, easy or no death penalty, quick leveling and easy solo ability.  Vanguard does have some solo friendly classes but not many and grouping is required for many things from the mid 20s on.  The other problem is VG only has around 3 people still working on it and they do a hell of a job but there's still only so much you can do with that small of a team.  The fact that they still support and patch it at all is amazing but you can figure any except a world stopping bug is there for good.
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« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2011, 03:13:39 AM »

Vanguard is STILL my favorite pve mmo.  It is so, so good if you are into exploring the world and just doing all kinds of different things.
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Hotfreak
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« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2011, 01:52:52 PM »

When I first fired it up after such a long absence I had absolutely no idea how to play my saved characters (low to mid 20s), so I started new ones.  I'm sure I would have died very quickly if I had attempted any serious combat with my old characters, Abaddon (edit: not Lockdown), so take heart from that.  icon_wink

I really like the new starter island, too.

And, yeah, this is a hardcore PVE MMO.  It takes time to move through a dungeon, to set up each kill, etc.  The penalty for lack of patience and attentiveness is significant.  I like this in theory (and often in practice), but am so used to newer games where dying is not such a big deal that it can get really frustrating at times.

So, my new characters: Shaag Paneer (necro), Mattar Paneer (ranger), Tehol Beddict (disciple), Bigstar Chilton (bard).  Once I get used to them, I might switch back to my higher level characters, Mincer Ray and Panang Curry.

Would love to hook up with GT-ers.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 05:59:06 AM by Hotfreak » Logged

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El-Producto
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« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2011, 05:52:31 PM »

I bought this a year or two ago on a Steam Sale for 5 bucks, but have never installed it.  I really like PVE MMO's, so I might just give it a shot.
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Covenant
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« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2011, 06:27:16 PM »

Quote
I was fighting mobs 6 to 7 levels lower than my character and they were kicking the crap out of me.

If you look at the target pane in the upper right you will notice a number of "dots" around the mob level indicator.  This correlates to a sort of elite indicator like in wow, but with multiple levels.  1 dot = easy/minion, 2 dots = a regular mob, 3 = soloable but tough, 4+ = group only (though some classes can solo a 4 dot).  You were likely trying to kill 5/6 dot mobs which even that many levels below you will likely hand you your hat if you try to solo.
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